Didn't read it just hopeful my favorite Titan, Raven is finally out of her silly looking outfit and back to classic Raven... please...
She's going to be in the Teen Titans book with a different outfit (not sure exactly how you'd feel about it). That book should start some time in September with a Rebirth issue.
Titans follows the pre-Wolfman era group, mostly the original 6 seen in this book, so no Raven/Starfire/Beast Boy etc.
but did the Wolfman era Titans even happen then? I loved that era most of all, and wasn't that when it rivalled the X-Men in popularity? you think DC would be better off resetting the book to that era and not this one
Apparently not in this timeline, as Cyborg was never a Teen Titans member and Beast Boy and Raven debuted in the New 52 Teen Titans as their first super hero team. Starfire was off on her own in Red Hood.
NTT was very popular but, for many, many years the Teen Titans/Titans books have been plagued with trying to recreate its success by rehashing those stories and characters. It's the deadest horse in the Titans franchise and I'm glad they're not trying to recreate it.
Didn't read it just hopeful my favorite Titan, Raven is finally out of her silly looking outfit and back to classic Raven... please...
She's going to be in the Teen Titans book with a different outfit (not sure exactly how you'd feel about it). That book should start some time in September with a Rebirth issue.
Titans follows the pre-Wolfman era group, mostly the original 6 seen in this book, so no Raven/Starfire/Beast Boy etc.
@apokos7: The Titans are the C-team. It's goes JLA, JSA, Titans/Teen Titans. Always has since the three co-existed. Heck, for awhile they were the D-team when Legion was more popular, but that was before my time.
Back to Wally, Wally getting a "unique" mantle defeats literally all the character development Wally ever had. It's resigning to the idea that the entire premise of The Return of Barry Allen, where Wally really becomes worthy of The Flash mantle, is pointless if Barry did actually come back. Because if Wally just gets shirked off to a name and mantle no one cares about -- and no one would care about it -- what was the point of him proving he was worthy to be The Flash? No name you can make up is as important as The Flash, neither to the fans nor to Wally's character.
It's funny, really -- there is a reason I keep asking you to check out The Return of Barry Allen. They literally have a scene where Wally and Linda discuss if Wally should get a new name now that "Barry" is back. You know what Wally's response is? "I'm The Flash. Stay used to it."
There's no valid point to wanting Wally to have a name that's not The Flash besides "I want Barry to be The Flash and Wally to not be The Flash." It's not a graduation to get a worse name no one cares about, no matter how many times you use the word. Wally graduated when he became The Flash 30 years ago. He's the only sidekick that actually fulfilled the role of taking up the mantle when they get older.
You seriously can't take that away from him without undermining his entire history.
@dredeuced: And like I said it's fine for Alan and Jay to go by Green Lantern and The Flash respectively since they are from another Earth and those were their original mantles there. I just pointed out that it would be fine by me if they changed it to something different like with Sentinel when they inhabit the main Earth.
Why would another name never catch when Nightwing stuck just fine? I get the differences between the characters. I get that Wally was The Flash for 20 years. I get that he was great at it and at being a hero in general. I agree with you that he is not inferior to Barry and stands side by side with him the same way Richard stands side by side with Bruce. You don't get though that a different mantle wouldn't be bad for the character. I'd like to leave my own legacy behind and not one built on the ones that came before me.
Also, on Earth 1 The Flash name belongs to Barry since Jay who came before him was from a different Earth. He was the one who used it first inspired by a comic. Also, I don't have a problem that we had 2 Flashes running around together for 20 years. I don't have a problem that we are most likely going to have 2 Flashes running around together now. And I most definitely don't hate Wally. In fact, I love Wally. Both Wallys, the ginger we know and love and his younger recently-introduced cousin and future Kid-Flash. You are the one that seems to dislike Barry though.
Alan and Jay were on the same Earth for ages. That's my point. It wasn't ever a problem before and it's not a problem now.
Nightwing has been a name for decades. Dick is also a spinoff of Batman, a much more successful and influential title. It's the same reason Batgirl and Robin/Damian can have solo books but Impulse hasn't since 2000. Catch my drift? Spinoff character names don't sell and are valued as less important by the company and the public. Nightwing has the good graces of his baseline popularity still being solid because of being a bat character.
A different mantle doesn't suit the character. Have you read The Return of Barry Allen? That tell the story much better than I ever could. You're Thawne in this scenario. You're the one telling Wally he can't be The Flash now that Barry's back.
Hey, all that history that got washed away (where Barry originally got the name because Jay was his hero growing up) is slowly coming back. Do you think when they bring the JSA back they're not gonna have Barry acknowledge Jay?
I don't dislike Barry. I've read and enjoyed far too many Barry books to dislike Barry. I dislike the insistence that Barry's importance means Wally gets knocked down a peg. That Barry's existence means Wally has to downgrade to a second rate title that no one in the world knows. Because that's why you're saying it -- if Barry wasn't around there wouldn't be a question about it, of course Wally's The Flash! Barry comes back and now Wally has to turn in his boots and try another name because he's not fit for the job now that Barry's back. That's the story you're selling me and it's a bad one.
Is it not bad enough Wally's knocked out of the cool kids club in the Justice League to be on the C-Team? That he'll never get to headline a flagship title like The Flash now that Barry's back? You gotta take his name away, too?
His name is Wally West. He's The Flash -- the fastest man alive. There's no truer statement. Any Wally fan who read the best Flash comics ever printed knows exactly what I mean when I say that.
@dredeuced: Considering Alan Scott went by Sentinel rather than Green Lantern not too long ago, I wouldn't mind giving Jay Garrick a different persona. But they are from a different Earth so it's not weird for them to be called Green Lantern and The Flash alongside Hal or Barry.
Wally though should definitely get a different mantle instead of being called the second Flash of this Earth. And I can't understand why people consider this to be degrading treatment to the character. Richard's appeal is that he evolved from Robin and he became Nightwing. If he were simply a second Batman running around, I wouldn't care about him. Wally filled Barry's shoes during his death and did a pretty good job at it, but now that Barry is back Wally should evolve into something different and something unique. In my opinion this is what would truly do justice to the character.
Yeah, Sentinel, a name they pretty quickly ditched because it was annoying and disrespectful to fans of the character who knew him as Green Lantern.
It's basically saying "Yeah, you're not the real Green Lantern. This other guy is because we at editorial think that's the character who matters." It'd be the same thing with Wally -- he's The Flash. For 25 years nearly every Flash comic started with "My name is Wally West. I'm The Flash -- the fastest man alive." If that is not core to the character then I don't know what is. His literal personal identity is being The Flash. Not Mr. Zip.
You also fundamentally misunderstand Nightwing. He became Nightwing because he didn't want to be Batman. When that event happened, Bruce was trying to groom Dick into becoming the next Batman to carry on his crusade and Dick rebuffed it and became his own hero. It was an act of rebellion, not an act to honor Bruce.
That is literally the opposite of Wally and Barry's situation. Wally's goal is to be The Flash -- a goal he earned and achieved as much or moreso than Barry.
Just go read The Return of Barry Allen. I beg you. That is the fundamental story to why Wally is The Flash and not some other, stupid name that will never catch on that no one cares about. What you're suggesting is literally a demotion for Wally, the exact opposite of "doing him justice." It's explicitly, unabashedly marking him as inferior and less important than Barry which is EXACTLY why he's been gone for 7 years -- DC treating him as inferior. Don't repeat terrible mistakes and don't undermine a character because you like Barry more.
The Flash name didn't belong to Barry first and it doesn't belong to him more than it does Wally. We had two Flashes in comics, side by side, in the same book for 20 years and it was literally never a problem. Why is it a problem now when you can easily tell them apart? Is the new costume not enough for you, is Barry too insecure a character that someone else having the mantle is bad for him when it was fine for Wally?
@dredeuced: I'd disagree considering Barry's iconicism and the fact that he didn't start out as a Flash, but whatever
I'd believe you if Barry hadn't been ripping off Wally for ages since his return. Saying the word "iconic" only gets you so far when that iconic character isn't good enough to stand on his own merits so you kill his mom off to make him more like Batman.
But sure, what should we change Jay Garrick's name to? I mean he's not the iconic Flash.
@dredeuced: There's definitely question about ethnicity here. And it isn't shoddy coloring, the artists would know the difference between pale and black colors. This is the digital age not some mishap at the printing.
And Iris was never intended to be white again and pre-flashpoint characters was never supposed to be introduced when the whole project of New 52 was just that a new comic era. Now they are reverting back and trying to fix problems because of this.
Which is also why the TV show followed suit in ethnicity.
The writer literally said after the book came out that Iris was still white. Dalhouse is not a good colorist so he used too similar a shade for Iris and Wally, which confused people, but Iris has always been white in the comics. This has never changed.
The TV show didn't follow anything. They casted the Wests several months before Venditti even started his run. Kreisberg actually took credit for them changing Wally's race.
Iris has been around since Flash #1 of the New 52. She was always intended to be re-introduced. You're just constantly lying through your teeth.
@lunarstorm: Iris, Daniel and Rudy are all white. New 52 Wally is only biracial because his mom was black. Iris has never been depicted as black, despite shoddy coloring. There's no question of ethnicity.
Pre Flashpoint Wally West never had an uncle Daniel. Daniel is unique to the New 52. Wally used to have a different aunt who was only mentioned a few times. Pre-Flashpoint Iris wasn't even ginger (heck, she was adopted). Wally got his ginger look from his dad, Rudy.
The only retcon was that they changed New 52 Wally's dad to be Daniel instead of Rudy so that Pre 52 Wally would be Rudy's only son (kind of important to Pre-52 Wally's story).
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