- First of all Mike Carey's Lucifer have nothing to do with creation of DCU. The first DC universe was created by Synnar the demiurge & the first multiverse was created by Krona in a failed experiment. Mike Carey's Lucifer comes into Hellblazer continuity & not in DCU. DCU Lucifer appeared in The Demon & kicked out of Hell by Etrigan. Sandman's Lucifer is also different then Mike Carey's Lucifer where Sandman's Lucifer never lost any power after he wings got cut whereas in Mike Carey's Lucifer gettings his wings back was one of main plot.
no, just...no. you are using your own definitions which has no backing whatsoever. as everyone knows, the DCU has many creation myths, and yet none of them are uncanon, no writer has ever cleared that fact either. all the guys associated with creating DC:
I am not using my own defintions, i am only going by what was shown in the comics .They actually did explained the creation and by not some random writers but by Marv Wolfman, George Perez & Jim Starlin.
the presence- who sang creation into being. (and krona, who LATER tried to probe the multiverse, but was blasted by the anti monitor)
Please read the COIE. Every person who reads DC comics knows Krona creating multiverse in his failed experiment except you. Here are the scans where Lyla Michaels explains how every single universe & earth were duplicated in Krona's experiment.
lucifer and michael- with their will, and power.
synnar- in his adam strange special ONLY.
even though all of these are canon, it is unclear as to who exactly created DC.
Lucifer has entered the mainstream DC in the spectre, the witching, the demon, and his own series. and no, dude, the first of the fallen has NOTHING to do with lucifer. and the only time john C has ever been physically CLOSE to lucifer was when all the magical beings of the universe gathered to witness his gateway. Lucifer was NOT kicked out of hell, even the notion of it is ridiculous. he let himself get captured to see what would happen. in sandman, he told dream he could easily destroy all of hell, but he was content to just manipulate them to each others throats.
Lucifer was appearing in DC comics way before even Sandman started. I didn't even mentioned anything about First of the Fallen. And it seems like you have never read any of those comics you listed, Witching is a Vertigo comic & in Spectre, Lucifer only have 2 appearances and you don't seem to have read the Demon, only going off by using couple of scans of you saw. Here all the some scans of Lucifer Morningstar in Demon where he have no more powerful then a hell lord who was hurt by baby Etrigan.
Here are scans of Lucifer where he was chained up & run away from Hell. Weather he didn't wanted to fight Etrigan or was scared doesn't matter because Etrigan causing him to leave hell instead Dream alone proves Sandman's Lucifer is not canon to DC's Lucifer.
In case you have any doubts over this is not real Lucifer then check above scan from Demon 50 where he is ranting ,yelling & throwing a fit like a kid over being thrown out of heaven. Tell me did Lucifer did that in his Vertigo series? No he in fact quite opposite of that & happy to stay away from heaven & Yahveh-
Oh Yeh if anyone have read the series till the end they should know Elaine removed the concepts such as Hell & Heaven because they were a sin as proposed by Rudd. And she immerself herself into the creation to Whereas in DCU hell & heaven continued to exist & Presence was still seen as old man. Elaine in fact never appeared in any DCU comic.
Here are scans of Elaine herself saying she that there will be no more hell or heaven in her creation
And in DC everyone & their moms have visited hell & heaven. For example JLA last visited hell back in 2011. And there's still hell & heaven in post flashpoint DCU.
And here's Archangel Michael in DCU where Aztar who fought with Lucifer during war in heaven, came to gates of heaven to repent his rebellion, seeking forgiveness from the Presence where he was turned into Spectre & met the archangel Michael who was tasked by Presence to watch over Spectre. Michael was the one who binded Spectre to a mortal's soul after the birth of Jesus Christ. And he continouesly checked over Spectre for billion years.
And here's Archangel Michael who during war in heaven was hit by spear from Sandalphon, taken prisoner into a pocket dimension where he was chained up, tortured & sexually abused for billion of years so that Sandalphon can create army of angels. He was only freed when Lucifer came searching for him. So how exactly Michael performed all the tasks in above posts & scans if he became prisoner even before war in heaven could end?.
Also here is backing by Lucifer's writer himself, Mike Carey's interview from last year where he himself says Lucifer is canon to Vertigo-verse & canon to Hellblazer universe. And no way in hell is 300 issues of Hellblazer filled with profanity, violence, nudity & no superheroes can be considered canon to mainstream DCU.
- Lucifer can claim all day that Death have no claim on him but the fact remains Lucifer was killed off by Basanos & needed Elaine to perform a ritual which exchanged her place with Lucifer in Death's dominion. Lucifer kept trying to escape but he kept on burning himself to which Death stated if keeps on trying then he will never ever be resurrected again. Later on in Lucifer 65, he stated that if him & Elaine kept on waiting then Death will & quietly kill them in their sleep.'
that was, as death said, stuck between stops. he needed a miracle to pull him back because his power was stolen. do you even read before you post?
when in lucifer 65, they were severely weakened because his dad was gone from creation. why else do you think they actually suffered injuries when journeying to the tree?
Umm what did i said wrong here? Did you read my post? Isn't what that exactly happened in the series? All i am doing here is clarifying that Lucifer is not above Death of the Endless for some people who think Death have no claim over Lucifer who needed a miracle to escape from Death's dominion
he tanked a multiversal erasing attack.
Wrong Show me a scan where they say it was multiversal erasing blast? I have scan where says that blast is going to destroy the worlds not any multiverse. Do you have a scan where it says that blast was multiversal erasing?
that fragil dimention is pugatory, which houses many lose souls, the souls of demons, angels, and in day of judgement, even heroes. he himself said it was fragile, it does not mean it is fragile to everyone else.
Mansions of Silence could be purgatory, since they never ourright stated that but both contains souls which don't have place in hell or heaven. In fact it also shows limitation upon Lucife that didn't have the choice whether to destroy it or not, because he will destroy it when he enters the dimension no matter what. Meaning, even if he chooses not to destroy it, it will be destroyed. That's not a low showing but it's just a limitation because it isn't within his power to will the dimension not being destroyed as a result of his presence. But why you're bringing Day of Judgement here when that series takes place in DCU & this in Vertigo/Hellblazer universe If Lucifer destroyed the purgatory ergo millions of souls inside it then how the hell the souls of Hal Jordan & others heroes were alive & well in Day of Judgement?
eline, at the end of the series, still was geting the hang of her powers, could not go into the place she sent the cherub because, her power might destroy everything there. after that she learned to control her power, she went there.
Though you are right that she didn't wanted to go that place because she getting hang of her powers but that dimension Elaine goes into end of series is also not purgatory here it explained by Elaine herself what was that place.
gabriel had that one scan, and you think he is powerful yet he got killed BEFORE the final battle.
Read again, i never said that Gabriel is powerful only thing i said he was actually was hurting Lucifer in war of heaven. Gabriel was actually killed in Hellblazer comic by First of Fallen after being tricked by John Con. In war in heaven, Lucifer's army was already lost, Lucifer's strength was broken, he was badly hurt by Gabriel & was only saved when till Yahveh intervened & asked them to stop. You can see scans of it ya want.
Yeh right i need to read the book not wiki because everyone in the book refers Lucifer's creation a universe not multiverse. In Nirvana one shot, in that single scan, Mazikeen thought that Lucifer had created a new realm(like Hell) ,not that he had made a new universe. There is absolutely every reason to think he didn't perform such a multiverse feat. Everyone in the main series including Lucifer himself called it a universe not multiverse in the scans below.
- Only people depowered Lucifer beat were Amendial where he had help of Chris Rudd & Duma and 2 Japanese gods who had very bad durability & very weak where one of them couldn't fight bunch of robots.
this shows you really did not read the series.
he did not have help; he asked CHRIS to give his own heart to the captain.
duma never helped him, only carried him to the spikes.
If Duma had not carried Lucifer to the spikes who couldn't even walk out of his bed & fell on ground due to being infected by Cherubim then Lucifer who have died right in his room & also the Lucifer would lost the match by Forfeit which was going to happen between him & Amendial.
and he was fighting the jap GOD not gods who stole his power.
and michael was merely the VESSLE for the divine power
Michael was THE POWER, he was the DEMIURGE as Uriel explained in the scan below where he was able to renew every atom in existence that something that only God could do.
And You know Yahveh never really any need for Lucifer or Michael. Yahveh have created universe thousand times & all those rejected universe show during Lucifer 37 are also a proof of that & so this scan.
lucifer got pierced with the spear because he was weakened by the demiurgic power, god, and he was truying to reserve power, and also to trick the demons.
SO, in conclusion, your post is full of lies and assumptions based on wiki reading. next time? do your research before saying anything.
Did you even read any posts where typing? I was talking about events of Lucifer 11 involving where Sandalphon stabbed Michael with a spear. The scans for which are in above posts. Not Fenris throwing spear at Lucifer.
You can check out all the scans you want. So nice of you to call to my post full of lies & bs and telling me to read the series yet you're the one who's talking without relevant knowledge and impertinent comments with posts full of out context scans & full ignorance. I wasn't even talking to you & yet you have reply to me in a unnecessary rude manner & accusing my knowledge to not come from reading comics and calling my posts of lies. This so not cool man.