DarthShap

@OutlawRenegade said:

@DarthShap said:

@OutlawRenegade said:

Why do people think that if DC uses Darkseid first, then they won't have any villains to use later?

They could do an Atlantean Invasion story. They could do a story with a secret and shadowy version of the LoD/Injustice League/The Light like in Young Justice. They could use Hades. They could even make Felix Faust a servant and worshiper of the inter-dimensional god Starro (just make him a Lovecraftian as possible). It's not hard coming up with threats. Just read Grant Morrison's run for other ideas.

It is not that somehow there will not be any villain to use, it is just that you cannot top Darkseid, the ultimate threat. If Justice League is to become a franchise, that is going to be huge problem.

Anti-Monitor. Crisis of Infinite Earths. Explore New Genesis and Apokolips further in a sequel. Black Lanterns. There are plenty of ways to top Darkseid.

1)Those are not Justice League stories.

2)There is just no way to make a movie out of Crisis on Infinite Earths because it requires dozens of movies about those Earths otherwise people would not care about them disappearing. Same thing about the Black Lanterns, which would require hundreds of superhero deaths prior to the actual movie.

@sethysquare said:

@DarthShap: nothing ultimate about joker?

wahhahahahahahhaahhahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahaha.

oh god. you crack me up.

And you fail to answer to arguments.

I think you do not understand the meaning of the word. It means "last", "final".

The Joker is not no way linked to any idea of ending.

@moywar700 said:

Not many people are gonna like my JL idea.I think there should be no villain in the story.The Justice League's mission is political and they go around the world doing politics stuff.There's once scene where Superman stops the middle east from killing each other with guns but they ended up having a blood bath with rocks as weapons.The movie will explore Wonder Woman ambassor's mission for world peace.She writes a book and there's a public outcry for it because of how scandalous it is.

So basically, the Authority?

@sethysquare said:

@DarthShap said:

@sethysquare said:

@DarthShap said:

I thought it was way too soon in Johns' comics and I think the exact same thing here.

@Grishnakh said:

Darkseid seems like a poor choice, they just did that in Smallville, that was what they did in Justice League Unlimited (the animated series), he's a Superman villain. Also, there's nowhere to go from there. Go for a Justice League villain like Fernus or something.

He is no more a Superman villain than he is a Justice League villain. He is actually a New Gods/Fourth World villain.

@sethysquare said:

@longbowhunter said:

Brainiac or Amazo. Jumping right into Darkseid...He's the ultimate threat. Where do you go from there?

Theres always the secret society, vandal savage, starro and brainiac.

But none of them are ruler of APOKOLIPS, responsible for the FINAL Crisis and wielder of the OMEGA force.

Everything about Darkseid makes him the ultimate threat.

so he should not be a villain in the first movie because he is the ultimate threat?

What is so hard to understand about the word "ultimate"? ^^

Joker was the ultimate threat for batman and he was not present in the final film.

Lex Luthor has always been the ultimate threat for Superman, not matter how many alien superthreats comes along, lex luthor has always been the only that would defeat superman, mentally and strategically. Yet lex was in the first movie for Superman the movie.

I just don't buy the idea that just cos Darkseid is the ultimate threat he should be in the last film. Even if he is in the second film, people would say the same thing again, where do we go from here.

Besides, Darkseid isn't really a JL villain, but a New Gods villain. Starro and Secret Society has always been more associated with JL.

IMO

There is nothing "ultimate" about the Joker (although I do think that the third film suffers from its reveal that the last villain was...Talia) or Lex Luthor (who, because he was introduced this early was used way too much in the sequels IMO). To Darkseid however, it is inherent to his character and to his entire mythos.

@OutlawRenegade said:

Why do people think that if DC uses Darkseid first, then they won't have any villains to use later?

They could do an Atlantean Invasion story. They could do a story with a secret and shadowy version of the LoD/Injustice League/The Light like in Young Justice. They could use Hades. They could even make Felix Faust a servant and worshiper of the inter-dimensional god Starro (just make him a Lovecraftian as possible). It's not hard coming up with threats. Just read Grant Morrison's run for other ideas.

It is not that somehow there will not be any villain to use, it is just that you cannot top Darkseid, the ultimate threat. If Justice League is to become a franchise, that is going to be huge problem.

@sethysquare said:

@DarthShap said:

I thought it was way too soon in Johns' comics and I think the exact same thing here.

@Grishnakh said:

Darkseid seems like a poor choice, they just did that in Smallville, that was what they did in Justice League Unlimited (the animated series), he's a Superman villain. Also, there's nowhere to go from there. Go for a Justice League villain like Fernus or something.

He is no more a Superman villain than he is a Justice League villain. He is actually a New Gods/Fourth World villain.

@sethysquare said:

@longbowhunter said:

Brainiac or Amazo. Jumping right into Darkseid...He's the ultimate threat. Where do you go from there?

Theres always the secret society, vandal savage, starro and brainiac.

But none of them are ruler of APOKOLIPS, responsible for the FINAL Crisis and wielder of the OMEGA force.

Everything about Darkseid makes him the ultimate threat.

so he should not be a villain in the first movie because he is the ultimate threat?

What is so hard to understand about the word "ultimate"? ^^

I thought it was way too soon in Johns' comics and I think the exact same thing here.

@Grishnakh said:

Darkseid seems like a poor choice, they just did that in Smallville, that was what they did in Justice League Unlimited (the animated series), he's a Superman villain. Also, there's nowhere to go from there. Go for a Justice League villain like Fernus or something.

He is no more a Superman villain than he is a Justice League villain. He is actually a New Gods/Fourth World villain.

@sethysquare said:

@longbowhunter said:

Brainiac or Amazo. Jumping right into Darkseid...He's the ultimate threat. Where do you go from there?

Theres always the secret society, vandal savage, starro and brainiac.

But none of them are ruler of APOKOLIPS, responsible for the FINAL Crisis and wielder of the OMEGA force.

Everything about Darkseid makes him the ultimate threat.

He is one of my favourite characters. The New 52 has been awful to him.

Higgins made him very bland. Pre-New 52 he was a man of honor with values, pathos and a complex relationship to his friends and family. Now he is just a uber-badass, with a hint of daddy issues.

This already was one of the worst reboots when Higgins left.

Then Liefeld came...

@sethysquare said:

@DarthShap said:

@Perfect 10 said:

@Ravager4: well katana is going to be in the new batman show so her getting her own solo is for that marketing. as for vibe, well he and blue beetle are all dc has for latin characters, blue beetle failed so now its vibe's chance. i would have preferred stargirl in a solo series (with her staff please dc) but my only problem is that they wont get rid of nocenti. is she related to someone at dc or does she has some kind of mind control power? i really dont get why they keep giving her chances. will be so happy when shes off of catwoman

What about Fire, Gangbuster, Renee Montoya or Aztek?

What about Ragdoll, Catman, Kate Spencer, Cod-Piece, Tempest, Dolphin, Plastic Man, Matrix, Christopher Kent, Ice, Azarael, Great Ten, Bizarro, Elongated Man, Red Star, Doom Patrol and all those other characters?

Who cares. They're waiting for the right time to return. Even in the previous continuity not every single character is around at one point of time. Now its Vibe and Katana's turn to shine. Deal with it.

What? I was talking about Latino characters, saying that DC had more than the two.

@Perfect 10 said:

@Ravager4: well katana is going to be in the new batman show so her getting her own solo is for that marketing. as for vibe, well he and blue beetle are all dc has for latin characters, blue beetle failed so now its vibe's chance. i would have preferred stargirl in a solo series (with her staff please dc) but my only problem is that they wont get rid of nocenti. is she related to someone at dc or does she has some kind of mind control power? i really dont get why they keep giving her chances. will be so happy when shes off of catwoman

What about Fire, Gangbuster, Renee Montoya or Aztek?

@Zeeguy91 said:

@DarthShap: I'm just saying that Johns took Sinestro and made him much more important and relevant to the DC Universe. Thanks to Johns, Sinestro became a universe-wide threat and not just a threat to Hal. He did the same thing with Black Hand, who was an incredibly obscure villain before Johns got a hold of him.

Also, Darkseid isn't that good of an example, because he still had multiple major achievements under his belt, which were told in many major story-lines: Great Darkness Saga, Rock of Ages, Legends, etc. Sinestro didn't have much of that. In fact, his first major story arc was Emerald Dawn, but that was quickly forgotten.

And you pretty much say it all when you say its editorial decisions. Why would they want to start anew with the Green Lantern concept, unless what they already had wasn't working well enough?

I was mentioning Darkseid as a response to your "If he had been such an important villain, then why would they have gotten rid of him like that?"

As for Sinestro, he just became more important to the DCU because the GL universe became more important. It has little to do with Johns' treatment of the character. He already was a universe-wide threat pre-Emerald Twilight. He was not just a threat to Jordan, he was a threat to the entire Corps. You obviously did not read GL comics from the 80's. Also, you mean Emerald Dawn II, not Emerald Dawn I and it obviously was not forgotten by Johns who RetConed a lot of things about the GLverse (including Emerald Dawn I) but did not change a thing about that story.

And to answer you question "Why would they want to start anew with the Green Lantern concept, unless what they already had wasn't working well enough?" It was the 90's. People had shitty tastes. Even freakin' Superman and Batman got replaced at the time.