DarthShap

Flashpoint.

That's not even me being a troll. After Flashpoint, Barry Allen lost his wife, his two children (the tornado twins), his nephew and his nephew's entire family. I am talking about Barry here because he was Flashpoint's protagonist but the same goes for most characters, especially the members of the JSA.

Well, to the avid comic book reader, both the leader and this blackmailed henchman are "obvious".

The leader is "obvious" because he is the Red Hood and he keeps talking about chaos.

The henchman is "obvious" because, like the Joker, he is a chemist and he was forced to join the gang.

At least one of them is a red herring but you never know, they could both be red herrings and the Joker could be someone else completely.

A few years back, I was reading the Star Wars KotOR comic book and the writer kept hinting that some of the characters would become members of the the Sith Triumvirate (from the KotOR II video game) but in the end, none of them did.

I really think and hope that the Joker turns out to be this henchman but you never know. Maybe that 's also too obvious.

Exactly what I was talking about. The Joker could most definitely be one of these blackmailed gang members, this chemistry teacher in particular. I did not know about the preview but it definitely would fit.

Having said that, it could be another red herring.

No it would not work. Losing one's family is completely different from hearing about two strangers getting killed. The scene where the Red Hood Leader explains his origin story was great but only if it turns out he is not the Joker. In my opinion, the Joker's one bad day would need to be waaaaaayyyyy more personal than this.

I really hope the Joker turns out to be one of the Red Hood's victims. IMO, it would work a lot better.

@g_man:

The Killing Joke is a comic book filled with mirrors. It even takes place in a House of Mirrors. The Joker's origin story is meant to reflect Batman's. Batman was a rich kid who lost his mind when his parents were killed so it makes sense that Joker would be a poor guy who lost his wife and kid and went insane as a result of it.

The chemicals had nothing to do with it really. The "one bad day" did this to him, just like it transformed Bruce Wayne into Batman. If the chemicals had something to do with it, the comparison just would not work as well. Basically, the chemicals are just there to illustrate the difference between who he was and who he has become, exactly like Batman's costume.

I really hope the Red Hood Leader turns out to be someone else because him being the Joker just would not work as well thematically. The transformation from who he was to the Joker needs to reflect the transformation from Bruce Wayne to Batman. The 1951 original origin story was fine but it would really be a shame to go from something as elaborate as what Moore did with it to something so lame and meaningless.

@aslan10000:

Nope, the story is about good-old Pre-Crisis Earth-1 Superboy.

@allstarsuperman:

Yeah DC Super Stars #12 by Cary Bates and Curt Swan. Basically, a Kryptonian Teacher Robot brainwashes a girl into having sex with SuperBOY and the story concludes with him becoming SuperMAN. I had read about it on CA and CSBG but I just had to see that for myself so I bought the comic. Really creepy stuff.

@smart_dork_dude:

This is just silly. Everything has happened in comics. There is even a comic book where SuperBOY has to rape some poor girl in order to become SuperMAN. That does not make it good.

@g_man:

They did not "sorta wrote themselves into a corner". Goyer is saying that it was 100% deliberate, that they wrote the corner so that he would have to kill...and it is completely idiotic.

Then he says this :

"We wanted him to have had that experience of having taken a life and carry that through onto the next films. Because he's Superman and because people idolize him he will have to hold himself to a higher standard."

First of all, you really do not need to take a life to realize killing is not OK. Superman is not a sociopath.

Secondly, what is this supposed to mean? That next time he is in this exact same situation he won't do the same thing? That he will let those people die? No, chances are, it means that the writers will not be putting him in this exact same situation where he has to kill again...which makes the entire scene completely pointless.

And the whole "I have too much integrity to write a scene just to be shocking" is complete BS. The guy wrote one Superman story in his life and it was about him renouncing his American citizenship (and I am not American).

The story does say that both are crazy but that does not mean that Batman kills the Joker. The craziness is not even implied. Moore explains throughout that both the Joker and Batman were normal people who went through "one bad day" and lost their mind as a result. It does not happen to all people (ie Gordon) but it does happen to those two.
But the thing is they're two sides of the same coin. Yes, both are doing what they do because of their "one bad day" but they are polar opposite in what they actually do. Their "one bad day" turned them into absolutes but opposite absolutes. That is why Batman killing the Joker at that moment would not work.