Magneto vs Colossus (Juggernaut)

magneto vs colossus (juggernaut) who would win?

I'm just wondering if the fact that colossus now has the power of cyttorak would have any effect on magneto, or if magneto would stomp colossus regardless due to colossus' organic metal.

33 Comments
33 Comments
Posted by Erik

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Posted by karrob

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Agreed!

Posted by GhostRider29

@darkwolverine: That's actually one of the best questions I've ever heard. Like what Erik said, I think Magneto can only defeat him by BFR.

Posted by PhoenixoftheTides

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Agreed as well. I picture Magneto picking JugOlossus up and levitating him into space.

Posted by Morpheus_
@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Only he isn't immune to physical harm.
Moderator
Edited by chiq

@Morpheus_ said:

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Only he isn't immune to physical harm.

But he heals instantly, plus mags couldn't stop Kuurth's hammer. So I'm thinking Colossus unstoppable enchantment works the same way. People keep forgetting Cain w/o the force field has also gotten hurt (didn't stop him though.) We still haven't seen what's capable of stopping or ko'ing Colossus either..I'm going with peter.

Posted by Morpheus_
@chiq said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Only he isn't immune to physical harm.

But he heals instantly

That happened when he hadn't activated his Juggernaut powers, so to speak, and had a hole blown in his chest as Colossus. He didn't heal instantly against Kuurth.
 

plus mags couldn't stop Kuurth's hammer. 


 
Which is perfectly odd given that he has manipulated a similar, if not superior weapon, Mjolnir.

So I'm thinking Colossus unstoppable enchantment works the same way. People keep forgetting Cain w/o the force field has also gotten hurt (didn't stop him though.) We still haven't seen what's capable of stopping or ko'ing Colossus either..I'm going with peter.


 
I'm not siding with Magneto, but most people have preconceived notions regarding how Colossus' current powers should work as opposed to how they have been shown to work. Colossusnaut isn't Juggernaut, period.
Moderator
Posted by Illuminatus
@Morpheus_ said:
@chiq said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Only he isn't immune to physical harm.

But he heals instantly

That happened when he hadn't activated his Juggernaut powers, so to speak, and had a hole blown in his chest as Colossus. He didn't heal instantly against Kuurth.
 

plus mags couldn't stop Kuurth's hammer. 


 
Which is perfectly odd given that he has manipulated a similar, if not superior weapon, Mjolnir.

So I'm thinking Colossus unstoppable enchantment works the same way. People keep forgetting Cain w/o the force field has also gotten hurt (didn't stop him though.) We still haven't seen what's capable of stopping or ko'ing Colossus either..I'm going with peter.


 
I'm not siding with Magneto, but most people have preconceived notions regarding how Colossus' current powers should work as opposed to how they have been shown to work. Colossusnaut isn't Juggernaut, period.
Thank you. I've been trying to make others understand this for days now.
Posted by Erik

@Morpheus_:

Juggernaut is immune to physical harm no? Colossus, while using such power should also be immune. We have seen Juggernaut damaged but it instantly healed.

Posted by Morpheus_
@Erik said:

@Morpheus_:

Juggernaut is immune to physical harm no? Colossus, while using such power should also be immune. We have seen Juggernaut damaged but it instantly healed.

He should be, but he isn't being written that way. The only verifiable identical trait so far is his ability to be virtually unstoppable while in motion, but Kuurth was hurting him a lot during their fight, while Cyke blew his helmet off with a single blast in UXM # 2. He's slacking heavily.
Moderator
Posted by Erik

@Morpheus_ said:

@Erik said:

@Morpheus_:

Juggernaut is immune to physical harm no? Colossus, while using such power should also be immune. We have seen Juggernaut damaged but it instantly healed.

He should be, but he isn't being written that way. The only verifiable identical trait so far is his ability to be virtually unstoppable while in motion, but Kuurth was hurting him a lot during their fight, while Cyke blew his helmet off with a single blast in UXM # 2. He's slacking heavily.

So he does not have the force field? I did see him instantly heal after getting wrecked by the celestial blast. I know he was not using the Juggernaut when he got hit but once he used it, all damaged was healed.

Posted by Morpheus_
@Erik said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Erik said:

@Morpheus_:

Juggernaut is immune to physical harm no? Colossus, while using such power should also be immune. We have seen Juggernaut damaged but it instantly healed.

He should be, but he isn't being written that way. The only verifiable identical trait so far is his ability to be virtually unstoppable while in motion, but Kuurth was hurting him a lot during their fight, while Cyke blew his helmet off with a single blast in UXM # 2. He's slacking heavily.

So he does not have the force field? I did see him instantly heal after getting wrecked by the celestial blast. I know he was not using the Juggernaut when he got hit but once he used it, all damaged was healed.

He hasn't shown the ability to erect a force-field similar to what the Juggernaut used to do, no. I don't question his ability to replenish his health and restore himself from injuries, I'm saying he is not completely invulnerable (like the Juggernaut was supposed to be) to begin with. Whether he can heal the damage his sustains (even though it seems to vary depending on the damage and his own condition, against Kuurth he didn't just heal anything like he did after being blasted by the celestial device) or not is another matter.
Moderator
Posted by Erik

@Morpheus_:

Unfortunate.

Posted by Morpheus_
@Erik: Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he refuses to tap into his powers wholeheartedly, and intentionally holds himself back. Or he simply taps into them differently, much like Eddie Brock was different from Gargan or Flash Thompson in his utilization of the Venom symbiote.
Moderator
Edited by chiq

@Morpheus_: But in his battle against Kuurth, everyone keeps saying he got seriously hurt. He got his bones broken, and his skull supposedly caved in. He was fine right after the fight. I would think that his healing factor would be similar to the Hulk or Wolverine because of this fight. Cain himself had his eyes poked out by shatter star's sword and was fighting as a skeleton. So force field aside they both can get hurt, stopping them is an entirely different situation altogether. He did much better against Kuurth (admittedly a depowered one) then Mags did. I wasn't under the impression that magneto could take on the serpent only powered Cain. I agree Colossus does not have a lot of feats( given that he has 3 issues of action under his belt.) I doubt we will see him in a force field since even Cain rarely accessed it. In his fight with Whulk, skarr and the other x-men, Cain's helmet has been damaged. Which gives the impression that Cain under modern writers does not use a forcefield.

I agree with you that Colossus is holding back. He would not like anything more then to be rid of the power, while Cyttorak seems to be flooding him w/ power trying to corrupt him. The writer of uncanny said that he has the full power stacked on his own mutant power, how this translates into feats is something we will have to see in the future. He might job due to being on a team.

Posted by emperorznb

@chiq: There is a huge possibility that he will job.

Edited by chiq

@emperorznb said:

@chiq: There is a huge possibility that he will job.

agreed. I've seen surfer, thor and other heavyhitters job when placed in team books, no reason to think Colossus won't. Normal Colossus withstood blows from kuurth powered by both gods. He didn't have his bones broken at all, and then gem powered Colossus get his broken by a depowered kuurth and actually bleeds.( classic colossus does not) eh... it's more of inconsistent writing and art for me.

His problem is he does not have a solo book unlike most heavy hitters where they can rack up feats and he isn't a villian that takes on whole teams of heroes. He will always be stuck on a team which makes jobbing almost a sure thing, even if he is supposed to have the same powers as cain. He might be used of as an example to show how powerful the villain is.

Posted by drkBEAST

Magento takes the cake by means of BFR. A skilled and experienced tactician beats out brute force ANY DAY. I will take into consideration the possibility that Colossunaut hasn't fully explored the threshold of his power and is probably more powerful than he's letting on at the moment. But even if that's the case, for him to tap into the full potential of his power he will have to give in the Cytorraks power, the result being him turning into a MINDLESS, KILLING MACHINE and losing ALL SENSE of who he is and where he came from. That being said, history tells us mindless killing machines aren't very difficult to manipulate. in most cases.

Posted by Falcor

In a fight to the death, Magneto loses. In a fight where victories can be obtained via methods like BFR, Magneto might win (mostly with BFR).

Posted by tron_bonne
@Falcor said:

In a fight to the death, Magneto loses. In a fight where victories can be obtained via methods like BFR, Magneto might win (mostly with BFR).

^ That ^
Posted by Rickbarry

I remember Colossus beating the hell out of Magneto in the ultimate universe after trying to torture Wolverine. I would have to assume that Colossus with the benefit of Cytorrak would be able to mop the floor with Magneto.

Posted by Lance Uppercut

@Morpheus_ said:

plus mags couldn't stop Kuurth's hammer.



Which is perfectly odd given that he has manipulated a similar, if not superior weapon, Mjolnir.

I wouldn't say it's odd. The weapon was enchanted to be unstoppable. In this case, I would hazard that the combination of magics involving the hammer were more potent than Magneto's abilities to stop the hammer.

Posted by God_Spawn

@Morpheus_:

He should be, but he isn't being written that way. The only verifiable identical trait so far is his ability to be virtually unstoppable while in motion, but Kuurth was hurting him a lot during their fight, while Cyke blew his helmet off with a single blast in UXM # 2. He's slacking heavily.

I was under the impression Colossus de-jugged himself prior to entering Sinister's mansion when he took the helmet off but Emma told him to put it back on cause it still offers telepathic resistance. When he was fighting Kuurth, Kuurth only managed to dent the helmet with a hammer strike and a punch, when Cyclops shot the helmet off of Colossus he shattered and cracked it.

Moderator
Posted by Morpheus_
@Lance Uppercut said:

I wouldn't say it's odd. The weapon was enchanted to be unstoppable.

I didn't remember reading that. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
@god_spawn: He was about to, before Emma pointed out he should still wear it. I don't see why he would depower himself when his physical appearance in Juggernaut form is consistent to the one he had prior to Cyke blasting his helmet off. As for Kuurth hurting him in comparison to Cyclops doing it, I personally think the latter is silly, but anyway.
Moderator
Posted by Lance Uppercut

@Morpheus_: No problem.

I'd also hazard that Kuurth injuring Cyclops as opposed to someone like Magneto is more plausible considering Juggernaut's specific vulnerability to magic. Most of the Serpents lackeys (Sin excluded) were no slouch in the mystical department.

Posted by God_Spawn

@Morpheus_: He was bulldozing through people but eventually stopped. I figured since he had no red eyes or anything and he did take the helmet off he did depower himself. But Emma told him just to put the helmet back on since it isn't Cyttorak's power that grants the immunity but the helmet itself does, unless if he does de jugg the helmet goes away or he can control that the helmet stays but his connection to Cyttorak is cut off. I don't know, that's how I made sense out of it. If he was powered up, then it was bad writing.

Moderator
Posted by Morpheus_
@god_spawn said:

@Morpheus_: He was bulldozing through people but eventually stopped. I figured since he had no red eyes or anything and he did take the helmet off he did depower himself. But Emma told him just to put the helmet back on since it isn't Cyttorak's power that grants the immunity but the helmet itself does, unless if he does de jugg the helmet goes away or he can control that the helmet stays but his connection to Cyttorak is cut off. I don't know, that's how I made sense out of it. If he was powered up, then it was bad writing.

Writers can't seem to make up their minds about the helmet, either. On some occasions it's shown to be comprised of a malleable material that Colossus wills into shape when he decides to power-up as Juggernaut, yet in Uncanny he has to physically remove it or put it back on. In the scenes within Sinister's palace I don't recall his eye color being perfectly visible, though, and it would have made sense to be on high alert and at full power against an opponent who, at the time, was in control of a Celestial. Your stance makes sense, even though I am unsure whether that was the initial intention, or not.
 
@Lance Uppercut said:

@Morpheus_: No problem.

I'd also hazard that Kuurth injuring Cyclops as opposed to someone like Magneto is more plausible considering Juggernaut's specific vulnerability to magic. Most of the Serpents lackeys (Sin excluded) were no slouch in the mystical department.


You mean Colossus, yes?
 
I don't mind Magneto not being able to hurt Kuurth directly but he could have just as easily tried something else, such as trapping him in a force-field and attempt BFR him or something to that effect, no matter how futile the effort would have been. In a similar vein, when he realized he couldn't affect the hammer itself he could have also shielded himself. It's likely the hammer would have broken through the force field and Kuurth would have obviously not been defeated by my proposed solution, but it would have been more logical than acting the way he did.
Moderator
Posted by Erik

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Morpheus_: No problem.

I'd also hazard that Kuurth injuring Cyclops as opposed to someone like Magneto is more plausible considering Juggernaut's specific vulnerability to magic. Most of the Serpents lackeys (Sin excluded) were no slouch in the mystical department.

Juggernaut had a vulnerability to magic? I wonder how that plays out since Colossus is supposed to be extremely resistant to magic.

@Morpheus_ said:

Writers can't seem to make up their minds about the helmet, either. On some occasions it's shown to be comprised of a malleable material that Colossus wills into shape when he decides to power-up as Juggernaut, yet in Uncanny he has to physically remove it or put it back on. In the scenes within Sinister's palace I don't recall his eye color being perfectly visible, though, and it would have made sense to be on high alert and at full power against an opponent who, at the time, was in control of a Celestial. Your stance makes sense, even though I am unsure whether that was the initial intention, or not.

They had a hard time making up their minds about Archangel as well for a while in regards to his transformation.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@Erik said:

Immune to physical harm....... Even against a Magneto. Magneto's best chance is to BFR.

Well if Skaar could figure out a way to BFR Juggernaut, I'm sure Magneto not jobbing could do the same.

Posted by Lance Uppercut

@Morpheus_ said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Morpheus_: No problem.

I'd also hazard that Kuurth injuring Cyclops as opposed to someone like Magneto is more plausible considering Juggernaut's specific vulnerability to magic. Most of the Serpents lackeys (Sin excluded) were no slouch in the mystical department.


You mean Colossus, yes?

I don't mind Magneto not being able to hurt Kuurth directly but he could have just as easily tried something else, such as trapping him in a force-field and attempt BFR him or something to that effect, no matter how futile the effort would have been. In a similar vein, when he realized he couldn't affect the hammer itself he could have also shielded himself. It's likely the hammer would have broken through the force field and Kuurth would have obviously not been defeated by my proposed solution, but it would have been more logical than acting the way he did.

That's the one. No idea why I said Cyclops. I liked the way they took it, because it's not like it detracts from Magneto. Everyone knows he's skilled, he's powerful, and he's good at what he does. But if it was just the Magneto show for even a couple of pages it would have been rather pointless.

Funniest part was when Adam X set his bloody on fire.

Posted by lectriccolossus

@chiq: nice

Edited by Lion_Heart22

Magneto is much too smart for this. The minute he thinks he can't stop Colossus in his new form, Colossus gets levitated to the Sun.

Posted by jeanroygrant

he isn't immune to physical harm look what hulk did to him in world war hulk

magneto wins