darkman61288

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darkman61288

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With all that has been happening in DC, do you think that DC is setting up Alan Moore's Twilight arc? Here is the summary of it from Wikipeida:

The framing device of the story involves future versions of John Constantine and Rip Hunter travelling to the present day, ostensibly to prevent a serious disaster involving the superheroes of their time. The hook through which the series would connect with other titles is the attempts of the two time travellers to recruit others into their quest to alter the future through warning them of upcoming events. Individual books in the DC Universe could tie into the crossover or not, as their creators wished, by having Hunter or Constantine show up and warn the stars of the book of some event. The main narrative of the series involves Constantine relating the story of what has happened in the future to his present-day self over drinks in a bar. The series was set in the future of the DC Universe, where the world is ruled by superheroic dynasties, including the House of Steel (presided over by Superman and his wife Wonder Woman) and the House of Thunder (consisting of the Marvel Family) as well as houses built around the Teen Titans, the Justice League, and an alliance of supervillains. The houses of Steel and Thunder are about to unite through the dynastic marriage of Superboy and Mary Marvel Jr., with their combined power potentially threatening the status quo, and several characters, including Constantine, attempt to stop it. One group of opponents is a shadowy cabal of non-powered heroes from DC and pulp fiction, led by Batman. Another involves an alien alliance of the Green Lantern Corps, Martians, and Thanagarians. Constantine's narrative of the future ends with a massive battle between the various factions, resulting in the death of most of the super-powered characters. A side story would show a decaying superhero ghetto where decrepit versions of old heroes live. In the final part of the present time framing device it would be revealed that Hunter and Constantine had travelled back in time not to prevent the future they came from but to ensure its coming true. The final battle depicted in the book resulted in humanity being freed from the control of superheroes, a status that Hunter and Constantine supported.

DC seems to be setting that up. We have a Superman who is dating Wonder Woman and is getting alienated from humanity. There is a large segment of the population who dislikes superheroes which can lead to a conflict. We had a panel showing Booster Gold stating the Earth is peril when Supes and WW kissed. Plus I remember John Constantine having some stort of room full pictures showing some type of conspiracy.

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darkman61288

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@darkman61288:

If Maxima has to be redone for her to be in a romance with Clark then why cant Lois and Clark's romance be redone? Different jobs, different personalities, etc.

Well. Maxima would only need to look a little older, so not to look like Kal was dating someone his cousin age, and maybe they could elaborate on her sexuality and make her for example a bisexual.

Lois and Clark could work but it won't work. Here's why. For Clark and Lois to work again, they would need to be put in completely different roles.

Time and time again I've said I'd like to see Kal help/save the world as both Clark and Superman. Something that also never been done before. Recently I started reading Iron Man post Secret Wars, by advice from a friend. It hasn't really picked my interest has a comic but one thing I did liked. The interactions between Tony and this gorgeous brilliant woman that's also a scientist called Amara Perera. I looked at those and thought to myself "Well this could be something that could/should happen to Clark".

Just imagine things this way. Instead of placing Clark and Lois in the same role over and over again, why not change things!? Like Clark instead of being a reporter he would be the owner and founder of his own tech and bio R&D company. One of the best and biggest in the world. And Lois could be one the main owners of the Daily Planet. She'd still be a Pulitzer winning journalist but she'd also have other responsibilities, the same for Clark. And it would be her interest for Clark Kent, the mysterious genius philanthropist, that would spike her attention. Superman would be interesting for sure, but she'd never look at Superman in a romantic way. It would be Clark Kent that would not only challenge her intellectually but also in terms of personality.

They could start out as him being kind of her secret obsession, while she tried to discover if he truly was this good man or just another megalomaniac lile Lex, they'd butt heads from time to time, even argue, but from the interactions between the two a mutual respect would rise, from that respect friendship, and from the friendship love.

But again I can't stress enough how important it would be to put those two in completely different roles. After all if we want something new about those two, DC can't simply keep putting them in the same situations over and over again, make them fall in love just because, like if there was no other people in the world for either of them. This to me would be adamant if DC ever wishes to see me support Clark and Lois as a couple once again.

It sounds good although you are turning Clark into Batman, Ironman, and Green Arrow. I have a few ideas. One is that Clark is still a reporter but Lois is works for the district attorney's office as an ADA. Clark does expose` on various social injustices gaining Lois's admiration. She doesn't trust Superman all that much. Another is that Clark is still the reporter but Lois is a supergenius who is very out there. She figures out Clark is Superman but plays along with it not telling she knows. And finally Clark comes to Earth as an adult, with Lois still being a reporter. to summarize Lex finds out about Clark, tries to catch him. Lois tags along. Clark saves the world. Government creates the Clark Kent id Lois acts as his guide to humanity.

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darkman61288

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@lvenger:

If there's nothing to explore, why is DC releasing a Lois and Clark series where the Pre Flashpoint versions return and are married? Why is that series looking at Lois and Clark raising a son and being a family? Why has there been more development and believabilitly in one well written Lois and Clark moment than all the scenes of Superman and Wonder Woman? The answer is simple chemistry, people are far more drawn to and interested in the romance of an alien sun god falling in love with an earth woman than they are to Superman getting close with another super powered being. Each side has its defenders in the comic fanbase but in the general audiences, they think Superman falls in love with Lois Lane. It's far more hasty and erroneous on your part to claim everything's been done with Clark and Lois when there is still ways of retelling the story.

The whole point of Maxima's infatuation with Superman is because she wants him as a mate to provide her empire with strong and powerful children whereas Superman doesn't want to be in a relationship like that. That was how the Maxima/Superman relationship worked before so even if they retconned the implied lesbian hint Maxima gave in Supergirl, I don't see how they would work as a couple. What's the appeal with Shay Veritas and Lourdes either? The latter was a one time character with limited dimensions to her personality whereas the former is just a work colleague who is also sometimes a bit fearful of Superman. Not the preconditions for a romance there.

The Lucy Lane potential would be very weird once Clark and Lois inevitably get together as they obviously will in the New 52 regardless of whether a few dissenters like yourself like it or not. Cat would be weird since there wasn't a flirty quality to their relationship when they ran their blog. The only other person who I would be fine with Clark dating is Lana Lang but she's with Steel so that's a no go too. I

Firstly Kandor isn't in a position to be utilised at the moment in the New 52 DCU for anything story wise. And secondly I find your Female Kandorian proposal to be honestly lazy, plot convenient and rather cliche if I'm being frank. Again not only does it run the risk of Superman being alienated from spending time with other people (like his relationship with Wonder Woman has led to Superman spend more time among superhumans than he does with normal humans) but it takes the focus away from Clark's supporting cast. Which, as Truth has shown, need to be treated and respected right for the Superman line to go through successful world building.

As I have shown in citing that Superman 46 page and what's happened in SM/WW, they are finished for now during Truth. I'm not naive to Superman suddenly changing his mind about being with Diana once Truth is up though, that could happen once Superman gets his powers, and hopefully his SiD back. It would be a regressive reversal instead of the positive ones that the first two would be for Superman in my opinion.

Okay. Here's a few questions then.

Why make Lois and Clark now? Why not months ago or more than a year ago? They didn't need Convergence to do that. No. They chose that the N52 is going through its worst phase yet, and then brought back those two.

You say their marriage and kid brought new stuff. Okay... Then to someone that's been following Superman for +20 years, please tell me, what's new about Lois and Clark in comparison to everything else that's happened? What makes it so groundbreaking? What would that comic teach me, that I already don't know about Kal and Lois?

You say that it's inevitable that Kal and Diana are gonna breakup. You even go to the length of confirming something that's not even confirmed. You read something, interpreted it your way, as you wanted and that makes it so... I'd say you're the one reaching here. Specially seeing that Truth crossovers have been less than forthcoming in details. One moment Clark is in the Mythbrawl trying to find anything he can about Wraith and HORDR, and in Action Comics we see him not only finding Wraith but defeating her. In Superman-WonderWoman they breakout Parasite to find out where all the power that's been stolen was, and they go to find Vandal son. All things that are clearly after what's happening in the Mythbrawl.

And how do we know this?! Because in that issue of Superman he's also wandering about Wraith effects on him and how much he's change, while in Action Comics we see him not only beating Wraith but also learning to see pass his rage. To focus it and use it.

So lets do ourselves both a favor. I won't dismiss your theory of the breakup and you won't dismiss what I'm saying. Because honestly at this point it's starting to look that we're butting heads for the pleasure of it. And trust me. I get no pleasure out of it. It just annoys me a little.

Has for Maxima and any other love potential I keep every word I said. Even when you referred to Maxima you were talking about modern age Maxima. That Maxima died a long time ago. This Maxima can still be redone in the right way.

Honestly I'd really like to know what you see in the Clois relationship, that's there to explore. Because the main reason I read just one issue of Lois and Clark and drop it, was because not only it seemed like a cheap shot doing it know, and doing it in Earth-0 of all places, but it felt and read like a closure story for fans that needed closure on those two pre-Flashpoint relationship. Something I don't need. You may not call it a cheap shot, but looking at the time it was done, and the fact DC didn't chose another Earth, like for example Earth-2 that's lacking a Superman and living Lois, it speaks volumes of this move by DC.

I know it, you know it, heck, everyone knows it at this point.

If Maxima has to be redone for her to be in a romance with Clark then why cant Lois and Clark's romance be redone? Different jobs, different personalities, etc.

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darkman61288

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What was the full impact of Vyndktvx's actions against Superman? I know he killed the Kents, but what else did he changed?

Also do you think that Truth will lead to undoing of it?

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Thank you all for your opinions. They're much appreciated.

It seems clear we all can agree that the teams making this arcs need some serious changes, and that DC needs to put down some ground rules when it comes to Supes.

All teams have had too much liberty to do pretty much what they wanted and look where we are now. With a arc that's stretched beyond welcomed, that people simple can't wait to get rid off and that's been nothing but a slow but surely train wreck.

We're not asking too much. Teams that actually now what they're doing. That bothered to read what others have done before so not to give readers conflicted information. And that are actually able to bring something new, stable, and good to the table.

Has for Clark and Lois, I only got this to say. Plus 20 years were enough. I'd much prefer to see Clark single or with a woman that's exact opposite of him, like Koriandr aka Starfire, than to see him and Lois again for the thousand time. Enough is enough and although not all might share this view, it's time for Kal/Clark/Superman to move on definitely from Lois. Every other character in comics as basically evolved beyond their supposedly soul mates, so why shouldn't Superman. Barry went beyond Iris, Hal went beyond Carol, Arthur went beyond Mara, Peter went beyond Mary Jane, Bruce went beyond Betty, Scott went beyond Jean Grey.

So cutting the big man some slack and letting him have new experiences is way much better than insisting in the same old gimmick and hope it works out.

So if Clark and Lois where put back together you would not read a single Superman comic even if they did something different with it or the main story arcs where good?

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Remove: Everything Truth has done. The depowerment, the id being public, all of it.

Undo Vyndrk 's changes to Clark's past. End SM/WW.

in fact change everything. and Fire the editors and nearly all writers.

Keep Lois and Perry knowing. Lana and Steel the way they are. Greg Pak and Tom Taylor.

ADD. Bryan Q. Miller ( Smallville season 11) as head writer/ editor. Keith Rocafort as artist. Lois and Clark having kids. New villains.

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@z3ro180: At the Start of Dark Truth, which I believe was SM/WW #18, Clark and Diana are sleeping together in the same bed in an apartment, with it being implied that they had sex that night. Diana's opening narration places Clark as still being the object of her affection, this is also after he said,"I don't love you anymore". There's no real direction or consistency in the truth plot at all.

No that is before Clark still had his powers.

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darkman61288

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Awesome Arts! Found this one today and wondered if this is why Wonder Woman is so smitten with Clark . . .

No Caption Provided

Diana digs the pinchers!?! Lois's loss is . . . .

I honestly think Diana would be turned off by pincers too.

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darkman61288

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#10  Edited By darkman61288

@saintwildcard said:

That costume is a fashion faux pa

Yeah it sucked. The pic is from Harry's Law when Erica plays a woman who though she was Wonder Woman. It was the costume from the NBC pilot.