czarny_samael666

But this would actually contradict Your point, since it would mean, that without the weakness, he wouldn't be a match for him.

If weaker Superman was his equal in strength and this is their last that clear strength-contest, then Post-Blue has to be stronger.

BTW, what is Superman's best feat when it comes to normal (no flying-speed) punch? What do we even compare? The same about Pre-DoS one.

Other thing is that You're talking about a fight (it was one when each of them thought that fights a villain, right?) without clear winner and other is clear strength-contest. Thor also won with Hercules before, but it doesn't mean that they aren't equal in strength.

Fight=/= strength contest.

1.Most powers You've mentioned were shown only when he also had the suit, am I right? Are You sure You would be able to show scans of them without it?

2.Matter manipulation is usefull, but:

a)it is not Ronan's first choice in most cases

b)I don't recall Ronan affecting enemies who would be on the move. In his mini in Annihilation, both were standind in place.

3.His energy shields doesn't have feats suggesting that they can take BM's physical attack.

4.BFR move is also barely an option for someone who has so high opinion about himself, so he attack Thanos in standard way (brute+energy, which is also his fauvorite move).

Surfer > Martian (Martian's searching the planet vs Surfer's claming it down and beating someone who was powered up by all Dire Wraiths)

MG Moondragon > Martian (taking control over the planet vs searching the planet)

All these three resisted to MG Moondragon. Surfer and Thanos has their own powerfull TP, Thanos blocked MD, Cocmo and Mantis at the same time and couldn't be reached at all by them.

Thor resisted powerfull telepaths more than once.

Despero may be above Martian, but it doesn't mean that he would win here, because Martian would lose here exactly the same.

And You're also forgotting - even while I am still syaing that Thanos solos - that Despero would need to fight with two powerfull telepaths.

As much as that Surfer can't be defeated in Astral Plane. Before Despero would even have time to learn all of this, he already would be destroyed, because he barely have any energy-resistance feats.

Which Superman exactly? And in what? Because from what I know, he actually matched long-hair Superman in strength, later when Supe called him his equal, these were only his words and in very specific situation.

Long-hair Superman was getting boost to moment when he changed into Blue one. Last version, one that destroyed Dark Moon is more powerfull than one that matched with Cap. More than that - Superman (as Thor, WW nor Hercules - even adding to this that they are gods/god-types) is just a character who can't know how to measure it.

Cap - as Herc in comparision to Thor - may have equal strength to ealier versions of Supe, but there is nothing shown here or in similar threads, proving his speed (flying/reaction), durability (to brute strength, sharp objects, energy projection), resistance to telepathy, possesion etc.

Here are proves that Superman felt growing up in power and that we had on-panel evidence of that:

Gallery

While I am not sure if this is post-crisis:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111125237/4005098-1745778140-capta.jpg

this is for sure:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LcnEd65xsTI/TdgeO7FyN4I/AAAAAAAAAEw/Fa2WfhqGxLw/s1600/babbbbba+001.jpg

I understand all the hate against BM these days, but seriously - Ronan isn't in this class. His only real option shown in battles, isnce he doesn't have that suit in which he fought with Surfer&Nova, is matter manipulation which isn't his first choice as much as anti-matter blasts aren't for BM.

And even more: Black-Death-Herald-Juggerentry.

People... Really. Surfer has two planet level TP feats on his own. One with calming down Galadorians and secodn winning TP battle with Dire Wraiths queen consuming power from minds of other Dire Wraiths.

Thanos resited to Moondragon, Cosmo and Mantis together. He controlled Hulk with one move and mind-r@ped Maker and Fallen One. It may not be his first choice, but if someone would try it against him - he will use it as well.

Thor resisted to sooo many telepaths, that suggesting that he will be easily taken down shouldn't even be considered. Phoenix Emma Frost, MG Moondragon (twice), Rachel Summers, Tana Nile - ALL failed to put him down with TP. He isn't immune, but he is highly resistant. And it is not like Despero would get a chance to attack with TP without being attacked by team 2.

Thanos might solo. Cap is non factor because he lacks feats.

I would say something why it is pointless to put Cap against thunder-wielders, but it is not needed here.

@thetruebarryallen: Killemall already answered as I would.

Namor beats everyone. EVERYONE!!! Period.

#New Avengers 23

Now I like him almost as much as I always liked Cyclops that build Utopia.

In Old days all DC fans were doing was ABC logic and also - based on flawed arguments:

1. 3 JLA probably moved the planet (they didn't, but it is not the point), so every single of their enemy has to have planet+ level of strength. More than that: every single character who even fought with people who fought with Superman are planet+ level of strength.

2.Pulling means in battle as much as punching.

3.Superman used nanosecond reaction out of battle two/three times, so every single person who ever fought with him has nanosecond reaction speed. And as with speed - who fought with those people ALSO has nanosecond reaction speed.

4.All powers can be combined at once. It also didn't matter for them that flying-speed isn't reaction-speed and that flying-attack adds speed to punch, so punch from Superman will never be as good as moment when he destroyed the Dark Moon if this was his max with speed and strength combined.

5.With Marvel it worked exactly opposite: even if someone shown nanosecond reaction speed, if he didn't speedblitzed some other character, it means that both are slow, not that both are fast. The same with every single different statistic.

6.Older scans doesn't count, because DC did reboot, so Marvel has to do it too. (((Total LOL at this)))

It took years of posting scans to change it. At last someone would say... Now there is time to put down the lie about usefulness of speed: It is not as good as people say. COMIC battles proves that. It is not CIS/morals - it is how they are able to use it in battle. In the same way as creating black hole seems great, but it was never shown in battle. Currently Blue Marvel seems to be hated because of his anti-matter powers, because many people belive that anti-matter gives auto-win. It doesn't, so it won't do it here either.