comicace3

If your referring to Molly Hayes, she's a superhuman mutant with multi-ton strength capable of casually throwing cars and ripping apart solid stone. On top of that , not even Frank would even considering harming a little girl, and she sucker punched him when he was unprepared. She would do the same to Arkham Bruce.

@comicace3:

Matt doesn't have superhuman anything. He is a regular human with a radar sense. Stop making up powers for him. He has no enhancements besides his senses.

This confirms you know nothing about DD.

He has met someone as skilled as Matt. Lady Shiva. She is also a master of more forms of combat. Arkham Origins bio confirms her skill is unmatched meaning she's even more skilled than batman.

Oh you mean the same shiva who has no feats and is more skilled than someone who know "All forms of martial arts"? Honestly stopped reading after this. You provide no substance to this debate.

@comicace3:

"Omg Didn't I just say to not show that feat or are you just playing dumb?"

I just think it's close minded to say something is stupid because you don't like it, in terms of comics, games, and movies.

"There is a huge problems with most scans you show. They lack context. That is LITERALLy the scan I was talking about where shiva is mind controlled and has no Idea what she is doing."

Just like when Batman was mind controlled and still kicked butt?

Gallery

"The fight with sensei did happen in Batman resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul Story arc. There are even scans of it online for sake."

Didn't beat him.

"Now for Bronze Tiger"

Who needed stealth.

"I am talking about when he fought her in Arkham Origins. Not the initiation DLC."

Initiation is Origins...

"And what feats does arkham shiva have?"

Being declared the best fighter, bullet timing, it appears. in the opening, and matching Batman.

"Oh dear the one hundred to one Challenge. That's awesome! If only he didn't get one shotted in Arkham knight"

Perhaps that is due to Batman's ability rather than Deathstrokes "inability".

"and that 100 to one were canon in the Arkhamverse."

Who said it wasn't canon?

"Now for my random mooks.

I was talking about thugs."

Yes, but that's not the only people he fights

"Is that hard to understand?"

No, but that's not all he fights.

"DS, does not have much feats,"

Deadshot doesn't have feats?

1:10.

"Bane I'll allow but he is nothing like his comic counterpart in the new 52 and pre 52."

I agree mostly, I think he is easily stronger than post crisis Bane, but lacks skill, at least in City and Asylum, but new 52 Bane defeats many a fine warriors. New 52 Bane could certainly beat Captain america, and Daredevil and many so called heroes. But, in his first appearance, he looked alot like Arkham Bane.

"He actually has feats though, so I'll accept that he is a formidable foe."

So he doesn't just fight "mooks".

@comicace3: I'd consider knowing most martial arts and beating superhumans to be a feat.

And I'd consider you go back and look for feats to suggest that these superhumans can compare to DD in any way. I would also like to suggest that you look for feats in general.

You just said he has superhuman reflexes, meaning he is superhuman in that area. Which he isn't.

Yes he is. You said he was superhuman. I clarified. And explained.

It shows batman perception speed and reaction time. He has time to react before the amred thug can even shoot. And we are talking about it because batman isn't slow and isn't going to get blitzed. Batman was also fast enough to slap the Arkham knights gun out of his face before he could pull the trigger and the Arkham knight isn't fodder or an untrained fighter.

He's gonna get blitzed because he hasn't met someone as skilled as matt or fast as matt. And you have no feats to suggest otherwise. And all of his enemies have no feats to suggest that they can compare to matt. Don't know why Arkham knight is in this but he will get stomped by DD as well.

Its a good thing I never said that it guarantees a win.

You didn't have too. Why in the hell would repeat this same thing over, and over, and over again as if were going to make a difference? Don't play dumb.

@comicace3: Bro, it specifically states he knows most martial arts. He is more skilled and must know pressure points.

So now its most? OKay then. Feats or get out.

Matt is not a superhuman. Sorry.

Never said he was. He is peak human with superhuman sense and reflexes.

A game mechanic that shows Batmans speed, yes

No a game mechanic that allows you to press a button. If you don't press the button he gets shot, does that prove he has slow reflexes? If you answer yes, then you loose, if you answer no, then you drop the argument of the slo-mo. So again you lose. And you already said Matt has the speed advantage, so why are we talking about this?

So you still don't seem to be understanding that a person who knows more skills is more skilled.

No I clearly understand this part. What I don't understand is how "knowing every martial arts in the world" guarantees and automatic win against Matt let alone used in this argument since Arkham bats <<<<<<<<<<<<Comic Bruce anyday.

@comicace3:

"he still stalemated shiva in pre-52 ( I'd still give the majority to him since he has better physicals to couple with that)"

Not PIS.

"as well getting stomped by Sensei twice."

Never happened.

"He has even claimed that Bronze Tiger one shotted him."

Gallery

Mhm.

"Defeating shiva, who ended the battle herself, and was more of a test than anything. What feats does arkham shiva have?"

She didn't end it, and she had help.

"Defeating DS. Well sure a highly trained assassin with superhuman physicals. But what other feats does he have? Getting one shotted by Bruce in Arkham Knight. Amazing."

"And more skill feats shown as Bruce defeats random mooks in every game, and all these mooks have no feats whatsoever. So there is that."

Bane, Solomon Grundy, TITAN thugs, Deadshot. Not "random mooks".

@comicace3:

There is something to suggest he knows all forms. The fact that the game says so... Duh.

We are talking about quantity though. Batman is MORE skilled. That's a quantity.

If he knows most martial arts he definitely knows pressure points.

All of this is based on assumption so this provides nothing to this debate. If he has used pressure points then we will know. If he is more skilled you'll prove it.

Sure Matt is more agile.

Matt's reflexes are peak human and so are Batman's.

No Matt's reflexes are superhuman to an extent due to the fact that he has better senses, coupled with better agility, as well as better feats to suggest that.

Whenever spotted by an armed thug in Arkham Knight during a predator room the game goes in slow motion to give the player time to decide what to do, because Batman's reaction time is so fast. Matt has a speed advantage though, so what.

That is a game mechanic. And matt's speed advantage is greatly useful in combat because he has a better reaction time. C'mon now how can you not see this.

Batman has greater intelligence, skill, durability, gear and at least equal strength.

I thought we were talking about H2H here? Of course he has better gear, everyone knows that. Skill goes to Matt evidently ( since i provided evidence oh and if you want scans I have them), he might have better durability due to his armor so yeah I'll give him that, but what were we talking about again?

Not a fallacy. Batman knows more martial arts. As in, he is more skilled. He has more skills.

Is a fallacy because you seem to think that because he knows more martial arts he is more skilled when that is not the case. Lets take comic Batman for example, a person who has studied every martial art, he still stalemated shiva in pre-52 ( I'd still give the majority to him since he has better physicals to couple with that) as well getting stomped by Sensei twice. And don't even dare bring up the feat where he one shotted a mind controlled Shiva. It's PIS and we all know that. He has even claimed that Bronze Tiger one shotted him. Like I said, it's how you apply that skill that makes you a better combatant.

But what does Arkham batman have to show. Lets see.

Defeating shiva, who ended the battle herself, and was more of a test than anything. What feats does arkham shiva have?

Defeating DS. Well sure a highly trained assassin with superhuman physicals. But what other feats does he have? Getting one shotted by Bruce in Arkham Knight. Amazing.

And more skill feats shown as Bruce defeats random mooks in every game, and all these mooks have no feats whatsoever. So there is that. I have already told you about Matt's skill and you have no counter.

Stop using the whole argument of "he knows more" as a cushion because that is all you seem to fall back on. Are you gonna show feats to suggest that he is a better martial artist? Or are we going to have to end it here because this is getting repetitive. And boring. All I see is statements ( by you) and I see nothing to back it up.

@comicace3: Nearly all forms. Really I was just saving words by rounding it up to 'all'.

Sure. try being more exact yeah?

And there is nothing to suggest he knows all forms

But lets not get caught up with useless statements. Because lets be honest him knowing more forms doesn't ensure victory.

It's still more than Matt though.

See above.

If that's not why you think Matt is more skilled then what's the reason? The analogy stands.

First of all the analogy is horrible because you try to compare quantity not quality. You also ruined this part of the argument because well, from my perspective money is money, therefore martials arts= martial arts and even if you have more money( know more more martial arts) I still have money as well to use at my disposal. Being 'richer' does not compare to skill level at all. I mean seriously to be a better martial artists you have to use what you have at your disposal in the highest level which leads to my next point.

Skills:

Pressure points.

Arkham Bruce has barely used any if at all. To be more skilled you have to have some knowledge of pressure points. Daredevil use his first pressure point when he teams up with wolverine in DD vol. issue what..196?

Agility.

C'mon need I say more? DD incorporates his agility in battle as well as everything else he does, form moving around in the big apple to dodging shot gun fire.

Reflexes.

They are superhuman. Sonar sense as will as other superhuman senses should give him an edge in this battle. There was one issue I can't remember ( possibly 219) where he dodges shot gun fire at close range

Skill, In his earlier day he stalemated IF, and later defeated BP ( who was possibly holding back), and has kept up with cap on occasion ( gonna have to recheck this last one) who has already claimed to adapt to all forms of martial arts in the world. Notice that these guys DD fought have actual feats and each and every one of them would stomp Arkham bruce.

Batman is more skilled because he knows more martial arts. Just how I'd be richer if I had more money than someone. Sure, we can continue tomorrow.

Not entirely sure but I believe this is a logical fallacy. Possibly false cause.