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Banespeak: Thoughts on TDKR (heavy spoilers)

By CitizenBane 47 Comments

Final spoilers warning. I'm not going to bother with that spoiler block foolishness.

First off, the questions everyone loves to ask: it's not quite as great as its predecessor, but it's a pretty exhilarating experience nonetheless.

Second question everyone loves to ask: Is it better than the Avengers movie? I don't think they're comparable. One's an action movie through and through (an excellent action movie, don't get me wrong), the other is more geared towards intense drama than action, although the action scenes are pretty edge-of-the-seat stuff. They're both superhero films, but their execution is just so incredibly different. One's got a straightforward "good guys beat up bad guys" theme, the other tries to weave socio-political messages into the story. I don't think comparing them is possible or correct. They're both excellent movies depending on what kind of film you want to watch. If you held a gun to my head and demanded to know which was better, I'd say TDKR, but I'm a biased fanboy and this movie stars one of my favorite villains, so don't take my word for it. Decide for yourself.

Batman: I've always said Christian Bale played a better Bruce Wayne than he did a Batman, but luckily enough the Bruce Wayne part of the character gets more screen time than the Batman part does. And it works that way, because you can see Bruce transform from a rundown recluse to a resurgent force, and then from a shattered and defeated man to a resurgent force again, and it seems real, or at least as real as a movie drawn from this sort of material can get. His performance is as good as any I've seen from him, and in my opinion it matches his turns in movies like American Psycho and The Machinist.

Bane: Yes! A portrayal of Bane that is at least halfway faithful to the character! Finally! I'm not even going to talk about that wretched Schumacher movie, but I recently decided to finish all the side missions for Arkham City, and it was irritating to see Bane portrayed once again as a lumbering brute hopped up on heavy-duty drugs. This version of Bane does not use Venom, but that's not important because Venom isn't what defines Bane. I love how they kept in Bane's mind and intellect while also showcasing how strong and tough he is physically. That's really all that matters, and if they want to edit his history by making him a member of the League of Shadows and what not, that's fine by me. Bane's actions in the movie reference incidents in the comics more than any other character's; when he broke Batman's back and when he turned Gotham into no man's land with the push of a button, I felt like going "Hey, I know where that comes from!".

Catwoman: Glorious. I can finally forget whoever it was Halle Berry was playing in that mess of a film years ago; because this is one more portrayal of a character that is at least halfway faithful to the comics. All you people who said Anne Hathaway would suck as Catwoman? You were wrong, and you should make reparations.

But seriously, she talks like Selina, she walks like Selina, she acts like Selina, she has the same conflicts and motivations.......not really much to find fault with.

But the things about the movie that I DO find fault with? Numero uno would be Talia al Ghul. It could be that I hate Talia; I've always thought that she's a useless character. But really, she almost derails Bane's entire character. At first he's a sociopath wearing the garb of a revolutionary, and he's really good at that, but then all of a sudden that nonsense from Bane of the Demon is brought in and it's revealed that Bane did everything he did because he loves Talia. Really? All that violence, all those menacing speeches, all that planning, and it all comes down to Bane having a crush on Ra's al Ghul's psycho daughter? I think she could have just not been in the movie at all and it would have been better with a little writing here and there to accommodate.

I didn't have a problem understanding Bane's words at all. The movie does drag its feet for about 10-20 minutes during the first half, but when it gets going it's easy to forgive that. There are several holes in logic once you think about it; but honestly, who cares?

It's a very good movie, and it's a very good superhero movie.

47 Comments
47 Comments
Posted by Renchamp

This was my thought near the end: "Wait, she's going to end up being Talia, huh? Dang." I enjoyed Catwoman (and Nolan's goggle-for-cat-ears look) and thought Bane was pretty freakin' sweet. I agree in that his characterization got usurped at the end, but I enjoyed him throughout as a cold, menacing stud.

And to answer question number two: I'd rather kick back with the Avengers but get fully engrossed with TDKR.

Online
Posted by JediXMan

Not gonna lie: I cheered for joy when the Talia revelation came.

Posted by Deranged Midget

I still think Begins is the best Nolan Bat-film.

I personally enjoyed Christian Bales acting far more than what he did with the character in the last two films. He fleshed out Bruce Wayne, played with his fears(or lack there of), and built him back up. I couldn't agree more with you about Talia. I HATED that Bane was reduced to being a mere lackey to Talia. All that work hyping him up to be this brilliant, physically imposing figure and it all happened because Talia willed it? Bugger that.

Moderator Online
Posted by JediXMan
@Deranged Midget: 
 
Fair point. But I am glad that it turned out that Talia was Ra's daughter, because the movie was starting to annoy me when they went to "Bane is Ra's son" route.
Posted by notoriousmistersims

it easy to say this now dat i have seen it but it registered wit me when wayne slept wit talia then when ras appeared i knew n it was her aqcent too, but overall thought it was awesome and u cant compare it wit avengers it is 2 very diffrent films there is a alot more social issues been raised in dkr that u had to take in also there was alot of great shock moments that put bane over in a big way and tom hardy did a great job and selina kyle/catwoman was great the scene wit alfred and bruce was intense great way to finish the trilogy also loved seen scarecrow and ras

Posted by Deranged Midget

@JediXMan said:

@Deranged Midget:

Fair point. But I am glad that it turned out that Talia was Ra's daughter, because the movie was starting to annoy me when they went to "Bane is Ra's son" route.

True say, the whole "Son of Ra's" was absolutely absurd and I was glad to see that Talia finally revealed herself but being the puppeteer behind Bane? C'mon Nolan really?

Moderator Online
Posted by JediXMan
@Deranged Midget: 
 
For me, it irritated me that the motivation was just "finish what Ra's started," which sounded kinda lame to me. At least this was... better, since at least now it's Talia finishing her father's work with Bane at her side. I don't know, I kinda liked it.
 
Also, it pissed me off that Bane was going to kill Batman with a shotgun. Come on, Bane. That isn't your style.
Posted by Deranged Midget

@JediXMan: Yeah... Before Talia revealed herself, it just sounded like Bane was having "daddy issues". Honestly, I let out a laugh when Selina murdered him with the Bat-bike.

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Posted by ComicStooge

John Blake was pure epicness.

Posted by ThePilot

I had to check my pants after the robin reveal, because i was afraid that I might have peed on myself from excitement. Could some one tell me whether or not that judge was scarecrow?

Posted by GaspoweR

@thepilot: yep same guy. Cillian murphy has apeared in all 3 Nolan Batman films and inception along with Micheal Caine.

Edited by HBKTimHBK
Posted by k4tzm4n

@Deranged Midget said:

Honestly, I let out a laugh when Selina murdered him with the Bat-bike.

Yeah, it was a rather abrupt way to write off a character that played such a key role in the film.

Staff Online
Posted by Deranged Midget

@k4tzm4n said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Honestly, I let out a laugh when Selina murdered him with the Bat-bike.

Yeah, it was a rather abrupt way to write off a character that played such a key role in the film.

I didn't really care after it was revealed that he was on Talia's leash.

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Posted by k4tzm4n

@Deranged Midget said: Understandable, especially seeing as he already suffered his defeat.

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Posted by Deranged Midget

@k4tzm4n: Well not just that, it was the fact that Bane was built up throughout the film as an intelligent, menacing, calculating and a physical superior to Bruce. He was a threat even greater than Joker. He had the skill, the resources, and the man-power to do what no one else could dream of: defeat Batman and leave Gotham in ruins. We all knew that Bruce would make a comeback and defeat Bane in one fashion or another, but to be revealed merely as a lackey that took orders? That was a cheap shot...

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Posted by k4tzm4n

@Deranged Midget: I understood. I'm just saying the fact that he already suffered his defeat is just icing on the cake in justifying why he was taken out so abruptly.

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Posted by Deranged Midget

@k4tzm4n: Haha indeed! I almost expected another smaller, drawn out fight on the transport truck carrying the bomb :P

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Posted by Uno_Oscuro

Awesome movie

Posted by HBKTimHBK

I wanted a fight between Selina and Talia...

Posted by The Stegman

Two things kinda annoyed me about the movie 
 
 
1. The revelation about Bane and who he was working for...he was such a big threat, and in the end he's just...a flunky?? 
 
2. The "true fate" of Bruce Wayne at the end seemed like a cop out 
 
 
Otherwise,the movie was perfect, and I ADORED Catwoman.

Posted by InnerVenom123

I love how somehow Bane is just a lackey even if it was Talia's plan....

Hello? Bane did all the work.

Oh, and John Blake was awesome. Really awesome.

Posted by TheAnnihilator

@InnerVenom123 said:

I love how somehow Bane is just a lackey even if it was Talia's plan....

Hello? Bane did all the work.

Oh, and John Blake was awesome. Really awesome.

Took the words from my mouth.

Bane is awesome. He's probably one of my all time favorite movie villains. I love doing impressions of his voice.

Posted by RainEffect
@CitizenBane: Dude, seriously? I respect you, you know I do, but come off it.
 
Drop your anti-Talia bollocks for a moment and look at it from a neutral standpoint. The Talia/Bane dynamic was brilliant. He wasn't doing it for Talia, he was doing it because he believed he was the true heir to the League of Shadows. He believed he was originally meant to be the heir to Ra's' legacy, but he was ex-communicated and Bruce took his place instead. He was furious over that, so him destroying Gotham was killing three birds with one stone. He was exacting revenge on Bruce, he was fulfilling Ra's' goal and he was serving Talia's wishes as well. The moment when Talia is revealed and Bane actually sheds a tear? I thought that actually added an entire new level of character to his persona. 
 
They weren't in love, because it is clearly stressed that Talia thought of him as her 'great friend' and 'protector'. When she was in the Pit and Bane protected her, he did it because he saw himself in her. She was a abandoned, innocent child left to rot in the same place he had been born - so he defended her. It wasn't love, it was devotion.
 
I hate Bane and Catwoman in the comics, but I adored their portrayals in the film. Why are you unable to do the same for Talia, even though it was a perfectly justified plot twist?
Posted by entropy_aegis

@RainEffect said:

@CitizenBane: Dude, seriously? I respect you, you know I do, but come off it.

Drop your anti-Talia bollocks for a moment and look at it from a neutral standpoint. The Talia/Bane dynamic was brilliant. He wasn't doing it for Talia, he was doing it because he believed he was the true heir to the League of Shadows. He believed he was originally meant to be the heir to Ra's' legacy, but he was ex-communicated and Bruce took his place instead. He was furious over that, so him destroying Gotham was killing three birds with one stone. He was exacting revenge on Bruce, he was fulfilling Ra's' goal and he was serving Talia's wishes as well. The moment when Talia is revealed and Bane actually sheds a tear? I thought that actually added an entire new level of character to his persona.

They weren't in love, because it is clearly stressed that Talia thought of him as her 'great friend' and 'protector'. When she was in the Pit and Bane protected her, he did it because he saw himself in her. She was a abandoned, innocent child left to rot in the same place he had been born - so he defended her. It wasn't love, it was devotion. I hate Bane and Catwoman in the comics, but I adored their portrayals in the film. Why are you unable to do the same for Talia, even though it was a perfectly justified plot twist?

I agree with this,save the last line cause I love both Bane and Selina lol.But yeah I dont think Talia had anything to do with Bane's downfall,the stupidly convenient mask breaking pissed me off much more especially considering the fact that Batman smacked him across the face a dozen times in the first fight and the mask was'nt even dented.

Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

Loved the movie. I won't be surprised to see a Batman and Robin movie soon.

Posted by jrock85

The only quibble I have about the film is Detective Blake's real name. Wouldn't it have been better if his real name was Richard Grayson?

Posted by k4tzm4n

@entropy_aegis:

the stupidly convenient mask breaking pissed me off much more especially considering the fact that Batman smacked him across the face a dozen times in the first fight and the mask was'nt even dented.

I wholeheartedly agree, but I think we all knew once they previously announced "the mask helps him deal with constant pain" that it would serve as the plot device for his downfall.

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Posted by k4tzm4n

@jrock85 said:

The only quibble I have about the film is Detective Blake's real name. Wouldn't it have been better if his real name was Richard Grayson?

Yes, including that as his middle name just felt like fan-service and spelling out the blatantly obvious to the general audience.

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Posted by Chaos Burn

Christian Bale was great in this, especially after being so brightly outshined by Heath Ledger last time, there was always a risk Tom Hardy's performance would out do him too, but whilst Bane was intense, this was Batmans film throughout

Posted by jrock85

@k4tzm4n said:

@jrock85 said:

The only quibble I have about the film is Detective Blake's real name. Wouldn't it have been better if his real name was Richard Grayson?

Yes, including that as his middle name just felt like fan-service and spelling out the blatantly obvious to the general audience.

He also had an element of Tim Drake, considering that he was able to deduce Batman's secret identity.

Posted by mathematicscore

@JediXMan: actually, while Bane is definitely a "hands-on" kinda guy, I've never seen him as above using more expedient means when the situation demanded it.

Also, I rather enjoyed that it took a vehicle mounted cannon to take him out. :)

Posted by mathematicscore

@Chaos Burn: Well said! I thought he was pretty great in Dark Knight, but Joker was the main attraction; this was the end of BATMAN's trilogy, and I too was chuffed that he has a wonderful arc, overcomes adversity, saves the day like a badass, and pulls the wool over everybody's eyes at the end, just like Batman should.

Posted by RainEffect
@mathematicscore said:

@Chaos Burn: Well said! I thought he was pretty great in Dark Knight, but Joker was the main attraction; this was the end of BATMAN's trilogy, and I too was chuffed that he has a wonderful arc, overcomes adversity, saves the day like a badass, and pulls the wool over everybody's eyes at the end, just like Batman should.

Weird. I wonder why this came in my inbox as though it was a reply to me? xD
Posted by mathematicscore

@RainEffect: I was trying to second your agreement. Guess some wires got crossed; INTERNETS EVERBODY!

Posted by RainEffect
@mathematicscore said:

@RainEffect: I was trying to second your agreement. Guess some wires got crossed; INTERNETS EVERBODY!

LMAO
Posted by Madame_Mist

Awesome movie. Awesome catwoman.

Posted by JediXMan

@mathematicscore said:

@JediXMan: actually, while Bane is definitely a "hands-on" kinda guy, I've never seen him as above using more expedient means when the situation demanded it.

Also, I rather enjoyed that it took a vehicle mounted cannon to take him out. :)

Yes, but in this case, it is a personal kill.

Posted by pooty

I have not seen any of the batman, avengers or spiderman or solo people's movies. In some way the movie always stray from the comic and the comic is 100000000% of the time better than the movie. Why waste time and money seeing something that can't compare to the original? And I pretty much know how it will end. Not that the bad guy loses but how he will lose etc. I don't get it.

Posted by InnerVenom123

@k4tzm4n said:

@jrock85 said:

The only quibble I have about the film is Detective Blake's real name. Wouldn't it have been better if his real name was Richard Grayson?

Yes, including that as his middle name just felt like fan-service and spelling out the blatantly obvious to the general audience.

It wasn't his middle name.

His full name is Robin John Blake.

Posted by k4tzm4n

@InnerVenom123: Well, I'm stupid.

Staff Online
Posted by buttersdaman000

I was hoping he would turn out to be JPV at least 

Posted by DieHard200904

I liked the fate of Batman, he does what the comics couldn't do. He transitions out of what wasn't his life. Riches and living in a mansion wasn't his real self, he needed to go and hook up with Catwoman, after all, she's his kind of woman, I couldn't deny that, and I always thought, well, she's the woman that Bruce should go freakin' hook up with! Finally, Nolan got this point, and put it into the movie.

Second, while Bane isn't the absolute top of the pyramid, he clearly doesn't have Talia shouting to his face all the time, he can obviously figure out his own way to accomplish the objectives. Even in the comics, Bane usually wasn't the absolute top of the power structure, but he could accomplish whatever he was hired to do, he was definitely intelligent and tactical in that regard. It's sort of like saying that Special Forces aren't intelligent because they aren't the commander-in-chief, Special Forces are intelligent, in the sense that they can improvise and creatively find ways to carry out their mission.

Even with the Talia revelation, I did like Bane, in fact still did. I also liked his demise. I mean, what's wrong with swift justice to a villain? Second, I felt it was something that was a little redemption to Catwoman, contrasting to where she led Batman into Bane's trap.

Posted by The_Thunderer

Annoyed at all the loose ends. Otherwise it was ok.

Posted by Lvenger

There was no point for Nolan to hide Miranda Tate being Talia. I called it from the leaked photos in an oriental set up. And really a business woman approaching Wayne Enterprises about a save the world fusion reactor that could be turned into a warhead? How is that not Talia's style? And the voices were really difficult to hear at times. I didn't catch the revelation that Bruce had programmed the auto pilot on the Bat so until I looked up the plot this morning, I thought that Nolan had given Batman his trademark ability to be a walking PIS. Thankfully that wasn't the case. And not gonna lie, I groaned when Batman interrogated Bane about where the trigger for the bomb was. Bale was slowly getting better in this film and then he did his stupid interrogation voice. Ah well not even this film can be perfect.

Posted by InnerVenom123

The Talia twist was clearly for fans of the movies who didn't know much about the comics.

Damn set photos f**king ruined a lot of things, though.

Posted by Lvenger

@InnerVenom123 said:

The Talia twist was clearly for fans of the movies who didn't know much about the comics.

Damn set photos f**king ruined a lot of things, though.

I actually had the film a little spoiled for me on here. Whilst flicking through the followed user option, I saw a brief thing about Catwoman dying and Bruce and Talia hooking up so I did already know of sorts how TDKR was going to end. Fortunately it turned out that Talia died and Bruce and Selina eloped to make a new life. I was thinking as Talia ordered for the policemen to be killed that it would be a disgrace to Batman's character if he eloped with Talia.

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