@hushofthewind: In the comics Anarky trained with experts to fight toe to toe with Bats for at least a little while
cborg's forum posts
While I liked the movie in general , particularly finally bringing superman level action to the big screen, I did have several sticking points. First the pacing was all over the place. While not hard to follow it was noticeable. Also the odd contradictory nature of supes relationships with his fathers. Pa tells him he is destined for great things, then tells him to hide at all costs, including the deaths of children. He says you'll be a great force for good or evil then gives no guidance, just hide.He never tells him of the importance or preciousness of human life, just you're great BUT don't do shit(kinda got The Incredibles act 2 deja vu). Jor El seemed more important to clark than his earth folks did. His instincts are to help people constantly against his fathers wishes but similar to jor el, he straight tells him youre not my dad. then after the funeral ditches his mom acting as if he doesn't fit with her or humans (despite having a recently widowed grieving mom that loves him). He doesn't feel a strong connection until meeting jor el, this is shown when he meets up with his mom to tell her he found his "parents" not his "birth parents" and he immediately feels connected to them unlike the disconnection with his earth parents that left him a loner/drifter. Then despite this connection he chooses to destroy all tech that connects him to krypton and his dad. But one thing that really jumped at me is how odd the end seemed. Metropolis is the DC new york. But where NY had terrorists bring down two towers we watch some 20 towers drop and more than that a 20 block radius is reduced to a crater. NY is haunted by 9/11 to this day but Metropolis seems like its business as usual. Finally killing zod. Definitely not a supes move. Many are saying he had no choice its a real take, but thats not right. What sets supes apart is he always finds a way. Hundreds of times in his history has he been in similarly impossible situations but he always finds a way to do whats right AND not kill. The both times he did he quit being superman because he was no longer worthy of the name (exiled to space and gold kryptonite retirement). Its this honor/love for all life and unfailing goodness is what separates Supes from Apollo, Miracleman, Hyperion, and other flying bricks. Take that away and he loses that special spark and as alan moore wrote no longer worthy of the name Superman
@risingbean: to be fair the pain of being burned forced snake to pause and need momentary aid and x23 doesn't pause for a second being hit by multiple bullets while missing an arm. In a fight situation that pause = death/incapacitation
I find the comments calling this a popularity contest incredibly condescending. They presuppose anyone voting against Snake is either ignorant of him or votes against him despite knowing he'd win. Some of us are familiar with both. I voted for X23 because I felt the biggest issue would be the element of surprise. Snake is batmans equal in just about everything except experience with meta humans. While he has fought people with powers similar to superhumans he hasn't regularly fought average looking men who chew steel for fun or can kill you by staring at you. So he doesn't enter every fight assuming a baby will morph into a clay monster the size of a truck or that connecting a blow on a mild mannered mans cheek would do you more damage than them. X23s biggest asset as an assassin was her looks being deceiving. Some of the best fighters in MU underestimated her to their detriment. Cap let her walk past him after she publicly killed someone and she hit wolverine with 2 shots that woulda killed anyone else upon their first meeting. The fight rules hurt Snake, acting in character Snake would treat this threat as it looked, a young girl racing towards him. As usual he'd attack with the minimum level of force necessary to end the fight. Even with knives on her hands or speed showings he wouldn't expect the necessary level of damage he'd need to inflict to put her down even temporarily. She walks thru small arms like rain, and continues undeterred after missing limbs. He'd let her get too close or attack her too lightly and she'd get as close to a kill shot that she'd take a leg or arm or some other damage that would prevent snake from continuing at the level he'd need to to continue the fight. If the rules of the fight were dropped and Snake got a dossier explaining who and what she was, Snake would cake walk this fight, but this is a random encounter so he only takes 5 outta 10.
Nightwing is incredibly skilled. he trained since childhood and even replaced the dark knight himself for awhile. A battle tween Bruce(Dicks trainer) and Matt I think will be overwhelmingly Bats dominated. That being said Matt takes it. The big diff tween Dick and Bruce is bruce on his off hours imagines and trains for every possible situation and trap so he'll never be surprised and already did the prep for everything he can imagine, Dick and Matt on off hours try to have lives and get laid. While bruce has a fannypack of gadgets Dick carrys far fewer. Matts phys skills and experience take this. Both Matt and Dick trained from childhood, and both stopped and are stunted by only seeking one master so Matts super powers put him way over the top by a mile. Unlike Bruce and Matt Dick lacks the killer edge to win at all costs and is genuinely good natured.
In general GA. But for these particular series Hawkeye. It's been good from the start and excitingbAND fun. GA is starting to get good, but was terrible at the start, and its rarely fun, just exciting and riveting even though GA is a fun character.
great blog. ( I'd actually be interested in checking out that long boring paper FYI) I agree I'd like to truly owe the comics but I can see where they're coming from. The way i always figured with the digital age of ownership is they are trying to cover their butts because they're letting us behind the curtain. Instead of holding the finished product (with little threat to them financially) they are giving us a form formerly only available to them "ready for mass production status." The easy of transferring this version and the convenience of storage makes digital copy a much bigger threat to their bottom line. I used to be solely a paper comic guy (still prefer to hold them in my hand) but after my seventh box it was getting space intensive. Now I can fit the same amount on a 1tb external drive that goes in my desk and my iPad that I carry hundreds of comics with me. Also, my one physical copy of an issue if resold had no real chance of hurting the sales of that issue on a whole but with a digital copy I could give it away to millions of folks via piratebay and have a noticeable effect on sales. I have been told with digital copies of things it's easy to tap dance around copy protection. So while I think it's unfortunate I can see the rationale and accept it as another concession of life in the digital age :(
@norrinboltagonprime21: Don't get me wrong I love the ultimate universe (pre-Ultimatum) and totally agree with you that the directors should be allowed to tailor the characters to fit the film they envision, I'm just wondering if besides the inclusion of ultimate elements into the characters of the MCU, the the inclusion of ultimate mentality on capital punishment is needlessly muddying the characters up to a wider audience with no experience with the 616 characters. I may totally be jumping the gun since my feelings are based mainly on Iron Mans actions in IM3. Not to drop any spoilers but he does kill maybe a dozen people in and out of the armor in IM3 with no moral questions. In my personal experience the people I've talked to who have never read comics seem to get the impression from the films that the Marvels have the authority to kill when they deem appropriate like a police officer or soldier and are more than willing to do so than "pussies like Batman and Superman" (quote from a dude in the theater.) The marvels are unlicensed, self appointed protectors and so have NO authority to kill outside self defense which legally allows only as much violence as reasonably necessary to end the attack anything more= battery or manslaughter. In comics they generally avoid killing at all costs and do so usually only to prevent immediate deaths of innocents. As for the films themselves,while the storylines and costumes are more 616 there are many elements of Ultimates tossed in and the characterizations themselves owe a LOT to the Ultimates characters and general darker mentality.
IM123- for as many women he's dated before the Ultimates, Stark was never really seen as a partying/womanizer in the 616. Most of his girls were long term committed relationships and his drinking was sulking alone in demon in a bottle trying to forget his problems not party. Ultimate stark said he dated a diff girl each night/ drank while partying/ and was a shameless attention hound. Since the success of ultimates the 616 has adopted several of these traits but he's still a pretty serious dude in the 616(director of SHIELD, Civil War, Extremis...etc). I consider the IM1 created Stark personality that has carried through all the films more an adaptation of Ultimate Stark with a little 616 somber stark mixed in. IM2 played up more the 616 serious Stark but the fun Ultimate Stark was still on display. IM3 plays up the 616 unsure stark trying to live up to/control the crazy world that exists since Avengers while doing it with the Ultimate Starks personality and morality of life.
cap- here I'd say is a definite ultimate cap vibe. For all the man out of time idea behind cap since his revival in avengers to the release of ultimates he never really seemed out of time. His ideas were pretty progressive and too appropriate for the 70s/80s/90s for a dude from the 40s. His feelings on killing in or out of war, relationships, the government, liberal rights all seemed out of touch with the 40s but perfect for the era the stories were written. But in Ultimates this was a guy with a mentality of guy raised in the 30s/40s so out of touch with thoughts of people his age from today. Being that he was a soldier in the worst war ever seen to that point he was willing to kill. In first avenger and Avengers cap seems like a guy with a 40's mentality on things/ a soldier who killed in battle and used firearms when appropriate seemingly having much more inline with Ultimate cap. Still his big soft heart and dreamy view on America is what made 616 the symbol of hope that ultimate cap never seemed is showcased prominently.
avengers- I'd say while the look and story are definitely 616 inspired but the set up is strongly ultimate based. First the whole avengers initiative being shield run and created is obviously ultimate. Fury's position on the team, interactions with them and manipulation of them is also key to the ultimates. Also the dysfunctional nature of the team that was key to the story was the point of Ultimates vol 1 and rarely an issue in 616 pre-ultimates. As you said hawkeye seemed to step out of the pages of Ultimates with his costume/personality/and morality.
By the way guys thanks for the responses I appreciate the notice :)