Thunderbolts ENDING and being Rebranded?!

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/03/13/thunderbolts-to-end-in-may-and-change-to-something-else/

I don't know how I feel about this!

I can confirm that Thunderbolts, the comic starring Marvel supervillains potentially trying to be better people, ends in May.

But in June there is a new comic. Also written by Jeff Parker. With issue number 175. And also issue number 176 – you know, double shipping and all that.

Marvel have asked me not to say what, and hey I’ve revealed enough about their Wondercon plans this last couple of days, so I’ll say fair enough. Let’s just say it won’t be a title you’re unfamiliar with… and just the title will bring with it all sorts of meaning…

Are they going to be erased from time? Will Songbird not even exist? GAAAAAH!!!

43 Comments
43 Comments Refresh
Posted by Citizenv

Jeff Parker still writing the book? It will end a blunder exactly like Villains for Hire.

Posted by X35

Eek that's worrying. But at least Parker's still writing. that's reassuring at least.

i think and hope this might just be a brief change like when Wolverine became Dark wolverine or Ms. Marvel starred moonstone. :)

Posted by CombatSpoon86

Perfect Jumping off point for me after May

Posted by God_Spawn

It's just a name change from the looks of it. Why would they be erased from time?

Moderator
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@god_spawn: If you noticed, the issue before this change involves the New Thunderbolts team fighting the original team, i.e. messing around their origins. Cause the wrong move and KABOOM, T-bolts never existed.

Posted by CATPANEXE

The titles sales have been dropping and dropping. It's actually a good thing they're trying to mix things up and making the effort to try and save the series from a foreseen cancellation.

Posted by X35

Might it be changing to Infernal Man-Thing? Didn't Parker say the book was becoming Satana heavy and well... Satana would fit into a Man-Thing book.

Like maybe for a story Man-Thing and Satana are the only Thunderbolts left?

Posted by Vance Astro

There was no point for there to be a Thunderbolts after Heroes Reborn.They were the Avengers when there was no Avengers.Now there's 3 different Avengers teams.The sales probably dropped to the teams lack of significance.

Moderator
Posted by royale_with_cheese

Will this finally explain the the status quo and whereabouts of Cain Marko post Fear Itself?

Posted by X35

@Vance Astro said:

There was no point for there to be a Thunderbolts after Heroes Reborn.They were the Avengers when there was no Avengers.Now there's 3 different Avengers teams.The sales probably dropped to the teams lack of significance.

The irony being that it's probably the best written "Avengers" book out now. >.<

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@CATPANEXE: Yeah, but I hope their answer isn't "Abandon all these characters!" I mean, the sales dropped happened when the Time Travel arc started where they changed the cast and sidelined some of the big characters. I hope their answer isn't "Change the roster again" or "replace everything."

@Vance Astro: You are FOOLISH to think this. The Thunderbolts is about villains reforming to become heroes, not that they are just another Avengers team. Seriously, READ the Thunderbolts. Don't pout on about the Avengers when most of the time they sit around eating Chinese food.

Seriously, your statement makes me very mad. There's more to the Marvel U than just the Avengers, and a Thunderbolts for a long time was an interesting alternative. There's a reason it went on for 170 issues. Hell, it even influenced Dark Reign, creating the Dark Avengers.

@X35: I don't know, but I think Man-Thing will be a different title.

Edited by Vance Astro
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: You are FOOLISH to think this. The Thunderbolts is about villains reforming to become heroes, not that they are just another Avengers team. Seriously, READ the Thunderbolts. Don't pout on about the Avengers when most of the time they sit around eating Chinese food.

Seriously, your statement makes me very mad. There's more to the Marvel U than just the Avengers, and a Thunderbolts for a long time was an interesting alternative. There's a reason it went on for 170 issues. Hell, it even influenced Dark Reign, creating the Dark Avengers.

I love how you're telling me I'm foolish for stating something that's an absolute fact.In '96 the Avengers were "dead" and the Thunderbolts took over for them.The Thunderbolts first appeared as just a superhero team, there first appearance wasn't in their own book so it wasn't revealed they were villains until issue #1.The twist of the story WAS that the original Thunderbolts were the Masters of Evil but the team was never about reforming villains in the beginning it was about rivaling the Avengers and being better than them and gain the trust of the people and SHIELD.Baron Zemo who started the team NEVER planned to actually reform into a superhero.He had a trick up his sleeve the whole time.Don't pout on about the Avengers? Speaking of needing to read, eh? Who's pouting? All I said was the Thunderbolts were originally what the Avengers were when there was no Avengers and now there's 3 different teams.Yes, it's currently about reforming villains but they aren't interesting enough of a team to compete.The book hasn't been good IMO since Norman was the leader.I know there is more to the Marvel Universe than the Avengers but Marvel tied the Avengers into the teams history, Not me.
Moderator
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: Norman in control was good, but the book has been a very consistent series. This time travel arc is killing momentum.

But I severely disagree that there is no need. The Avengers are frustrating. They act so smug and proud, there's nothing to root for. There's a reason why people like characters like Ghost and Songbird is because they do get the shit end of the stick, but the Avengers just whine when they don't win and come back very easily. I mean, remember Ms. Marvel pouting that they lost to Superia?

And why should I read the Avengers? 6 issues for a quick fix ending? Bendis is horrible at concluding arcs.

I will admit that the current T-bolts team is frustrating, but I completely disagree that's there's no purpose. But Marvel is basically becoming Spider-Man, Avengers and X-Men only, so I guess you win, all hail the same crap repeated over and over.

Edited by Vance Astro
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: Norman in control was good, but the book has been a very consistent series. This time travel arc is killing momentum.

Ironically I think the time travel arc is the best arc since Secret Invasion. 
 
@Cafeterialoca said:

But I severely disagree that there is no need. The Avengers are frustrating. They act so smug and proud, there's nothing to root for. There's a reason why people like characters like Ghost and Songbird is because they do get the shit end of the stick, but the Avengers just whine when they don't win and come back very easily. I mean, remember Ms. Marvel pouting that they lost to Superia?

So your argument is that they need the Thunderbolts to give you a break from Avengers? Or they need Thunderbolts because Avengers isn't good? It's still selling despite the garbage writing.Bendis can't write Ms.Marvel for crap so i'm not surprised by anything she does in Avengers under him but it's been announced that he will be taken off of Avenger in the near future. 
 
@Cafeterialoca said:

And why should I read the Avengers? 6 issues for a quick fix ending? Bendis is horrible at concluding arcs.

I never suggested you should.My point was only that they Thunderbolts diverted from the original premise and their barely making an effort to make it's current premise work.Most Thunderbolts teams have completely failed to reform villains.Marvel's status quo won't allow it.More than half the characters that have been on the team have either already been heroes or went back to being villains when they were off the team. 
 
@Cafeterialoca said:

 But Marvel is basically becoming Spider-Man, Avengers and X-Men only, so I guess you win, all hail the same crap repeated over and over.

I'm not responsible for why people don't buy books that don't involved those characters nor did I suggest that I was in favor of it.
Moderator
Posted by Vance Astro
@X35 said:

The irony being that it's probably the best written "Avengers" book out now. >.<

Only because Children's Crusade ended.
Moderator
Edited by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: HOW?! How is the time travel better? It's just directionless! Oh wait, people like stupid wackiness over characters. No wonder why people think Wolverine and the X-Men is good.

That's because morons buy the books cause they see Spider-Man, Wolverine and shit. It's this constant attachment to the same A-Listers that's killing comics. I'm tired of having to bow down to Wolverine to be in my book. It's obnoxious. I mean, we're talking about the same people who let Batman: Dark Knight and Detective comics sell in the Top Ten.

Thunderbolts has a coherent theme and purpose. That's more than the Avengers have right now as it's grabbing all the popular characters and calling it a day.

And just because Marvel reverts some T-bolts doesn't mean they should stop. Hell, that's like saying the Punisher should quit cause characters keep coming back to life. But the original T-bolts line up have had some of the most solid character development in comics.

And Children's Crusade was crap. Oh sure, it started promising, but it just divulged into "Hey, let's stop picking on the Scarlet Witch cause Dr. Doom did it" Mary Sue for Heinberg liked the Scarlet Witch. And that gay kiss wasn't progressive, it was self congratulatory. But I guess that's all you need to make people forget that two team members DIED! God, what a waste of a book and I don't give a damn what you screaming fangirls think!

Seriously Vance, SCREW YOU! Thunderbolts has been my favorite series from Marvel, and just because everyone hopped on the LOL, Osborn train doesn't mean the rest is crap. The fact you like the time travel better shows you don't like good characters, it just shows you like Gimmick characters!

EDIT: If all you wanted to do was wander in here and talk shit about Thunderbolts, then congratulations. You're just a selfish prick who can't let anyone talk about something that isn't your PRECIOUS Avengers or A-List CRAP! Seriously, SCREW YOU! I don't even care if your a moderator! It's not cool to come in her and start inflammatory comments like that!

Edited by Vance Astro
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: HOW?! How is the time travel better? It's just directionless! Oh wait, people like stupid wackiness over characters. No wonder why people think Wolverine and the X-Men is good.

That's because morons buy the books cause they see Spider-Man, Wolverine and shit. It's this constant attachment to the same A-Listers that's killing comics. I'm tired of having to bow down to Wolverine to be in my book. It's obnoxious. I mean, we're talking about the same people who let Batman: Dark Knight and Detective comics sell in the Top Ten.

Thunderbolts has a coherent theme and purpose. That's more than the Avengers have right now as it's grabbing all the popular characters and calling it a day.

And just because Marvel reverts some T-bolts doesn't mean they should stop. Hell, that's like saying the Punisher should quit cause characters keep coming back to life. But the original T-bolts line up have had some of the most solid character development in comics.

And Children's Crusade was crap. Oh sure, it started promising, but it just divulged into "Hey, let's stop picking on the Scarlet Witch cause Dr. Doom did it" Mary Sue for Heinberg liked the Scarlet Witch. And that gay kiss wasn't progressive, it was self congratulatory. But I guess that's all you need to make people forget that two team members DIED! God, what a waste of a book and I don't give a damn what you screaming fangirls think!

Seriously Vance, SCREW YOU! Thunderbolts has been my favorite series from Marvel, and just because everyone hopped on the LOL, Osborn train doesn't mean the rest is crap. The fact you like the time travel better shows you don't like good characters, it just shows you like Gimmick characters!

EDIT: If all you wanted to do was wander in here and talk shit about Thunderbolts, then congratulations. You're just a selfish prick who can't let anyone talk about something that isn't your PRECIOUS Avengers or A-List CRAP! Seriously, SCREW YOU! I don't even care if your a moderator! It's not cool to come in her and start inflammatory comments like that!

Do you even read my posts before you respond? First you accused me of not reading Thunderbolts for saying something that was factual.Now you're not only using profanity but you're insulting me for having an opinion? Seriously what's going on with you? I don't know why you're going on and on about the mainstream.I never tried to compare Avengers to the Thunderbolts on quality.As far as team books go there are several mutant related books and several Avengers titles...it's obvious that people are going to read them more so than other team books.They are the most significant teams in the Marvel Universe.That doesn't have anything to do with me..that's just the facts.Team books I loved have been cancelled because they don't even kind of compete with those two teams let alone the FF that sells well also.
 
If you think Children's Crusade was crap, that's fine.That's your opinion.As you can see it's quite easy for me to not care that you DON'T like something I do.I never asked you to like Children's Crusade nor was anything I said about it even directed at you. My opinion on it was relevant to the post I responded to.
 
Norman Osborn was the best thing to happen to Thunderbolts since Zemo left and I don't even like him as a character.I hate Norman Osborn.I always hoped that Spider-Man would accidentally kill him or that he would have died in Siege.I don't know what characters you are calling gimmick characters but If you actually knew anything about the characters I call favorites you'd know that many characters I like have been killed or get very little appearance time.Not to mention I have favorites CURRENTLY on the Thunderbolts.
 
My intention was never to come in here and talk "sh#t" about the Thunderbolts.I was honestly just pointing out the obvious.If you didn't want me to talk about the Avengers maybe you shouldn't have whined so much that I brought them up in the first place.I only did so to make a point about the original premise of the team..which is actually the premise that Dark Avengers was working off of and therefore conceptually in my opinion it makes them a better team and also to make a point about why the books sales might be suffering.The Avengers were relevant to my post.You response seems to be to the effect that I came in here and said.Thunderbolts sucks and Avengers are better.I didn't.My original post that you ALSO took out of context was giving reason why the T-bolts may have lost their significance.
 
I don't think the premise of a team that reforms villains has been executed well.You keep going on and on about "my precious Avengers" but what you fail to realize is I HATE Bendis' Avengers and have said so MANY times,in fact Ed Brubaker is one of my favorite writers and I thought his Secret Avengers was god awful, on top of it I haven't actively followed those books since like '08.
Moderator
Edited by JonesDeini

Cool with me, as long as Parker's on board then I have no worries, he gets these characters to their core. I'll be laying off the book for a while in order to clear space up for my new Image purchases, hope this rebranding works out though.

@Cafeterialoca:

I'm actually enjoying the time travel story because of the dynamic between the various members of the "Underbolts" and Alpha Team. I'm also a fan of time travel stories in general and like how this journey through time has visited some of my favorite eras and how having to preserve the timeline (for the right or wrong reasons) is subtly has made them behave more and more heroically.

Posted by Vance Astro

Hopefully whatever the team is Rebranded to they don't lose Songbird.I hate when Marvel builds characters up and then they disappear.

Moderator
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: I'm sorry. I feel like a jerk.

But the leaked new name has been released...I really don't know what to expect anymore...

You can find it for yourself...

Posted by SC

Uncanny New Thunderbolt Avengers #175  
 
Welcome to a New Era for Marvel's Premiere Bad Guys Gone Good, as we find out why Wolverine, Spider-man and Batman have joined the team. Written by Jeff Parker with a foreword by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS. Double sized issue , so 8 times the cost of a regular issue! Nuff Said! Comes with random Avengers Movie Variants! 

Moderator Online
Posted by Baddamdog

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Baddamdog: I saw. I don't know how to feel about this. I need to see the cast.

Posted by Baddamdog

@Cafeterialoca: gotta feeling it'll be the Dark Avengers that have been appearing recently, although they wouldn't get rid of all the Thunderbolts cast...would they? Songbird has been a consistent part of the Thunderbolts since they were founded, but then again...this isn't the Thunderbolts anymore :S

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Baddamdog: Are the new Dark Avengers going to be a draw at all? I mean, who wants to read about Hawkeye's brother?

Posted by PrinceIMC

Ew.

Posted by Vance Astro

Who didn't see this coming? This is the type of stuff Marvel does.They have an property that is somewhat original and then they tie it to something that's already popular to try and boost the popularity of the property and it almost never works out.I lack of creativity and planning at Marvel blows my mind.

Moderator
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: I'm holding out until I see the cast first.

Posted by Baddamdog

@Cafeterialoca: True, the new version is very very weak compared to the original line-up. Plus they haven't received nearly enough exposure to be considered that popular. Hopefully there'll be a mix of the Thunderbolts, the old dark avengers and the new ones... although that could just be hopeful thinking on my part hoping that Songbird and Moonstone will stay on the same team...

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Baddamdog: Moonstone and Songbird are T-bolts staples. I hope they stay!

Posted by Solarflare32

So this a kind of new mutants to x force deal

Posted by Vance Astro
@Baddamdog said:

@Cafeterialoca: True, the new version is very very weak compared to the original line-up. Plus they haven't received nearly enough exposure to be considered that popular. Hopefully there'll be a mix of the Thunderbolts, the old dark avengers and the new ones... although that could just be hopeful thinking on my part hoping that Songbird and Moonstone will stay on the same team...

I think it depends on who runs the team.If Norman is in charge I can't see Songbird being a member and the decision being in character.She tried working for Osborn before.Didn't work out.
Moderator
Posted by TheOptimist

Honestly? I didn't think I'd ever really heavily invest in Thunderbolts again... but I had a very persuasive LCS salesman that assured me it would be worth the bucks, and the (at the time) return to more Marvel... the guy really gets me, so I gave a shot. And it was stellar. It dipped a little bit here and there, but the latest arc was awesome. I think Jeff Parker is a great writer. I think the stories that might be coming could be great. But I'm not going to follow the book through transition. Semantic in nature, yes, but I'm not interested in reading Dark Avengers. Even with Jeff Parker writing them. Even if the Dark Avengers are the Thunderbolts. The name simply provides an expectation and a connotation that hasn't been an enjoyable one for me in the past. I'm not leaving the book out of spite, revulsion or protest of the change. But I'm not going to keep going. I know the temptation would be to accuse such an action as being pointless or ignorant because (insert "you enjoyed Tbolts you should enjoy the exact same thing with a name change comment here). If the run is successful, if Parker remains on the book, and if I once again have an individual I trust who makes the effort to convince me the book is worth rejoining, I'll do so. Until then, adieu Thunderbolts. You were awesome.

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: I doubt Norman Osborn is gonna be anywhere NEAR that team.

Posted by X35

:(

Just :(.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: I doubt Norman Osborn is gonna be anywhere NEAR that team.

Isn't he the current leader of the Dark Avengers?
Moderator
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: He's kinda incapacitated. He gets a adaptoid, but all the Avengers and New Avengers touch him, and he melts.

Posted by Sobe Cin

@Vance Astro: There is always a point to the Thunderbolts, unfortately that point became- we don't have story for ourselves so each issue will cross over into the major cross overs and then fail miserably because when it did finally have a storyline it chose time travel. Time travel sucks when not done right, I stopped carring seven months ago. I wish I hadn't, but too late now. The only good new additions to the team since Secret Invasion were Ghost, Ant-Man, Juggernaut and Boomerang. Ghost fell into that niche that the book needed without having Fixer in it. Ant-Man made a good foil and as since gone on to have a great staring role within Secret Avengers. Juggernaut- well they ripped him away from the plot (one reason why I quit the book) and Boomerang, well always a classic villain- nice to see him in the title. But the little Troll girl which made no sense, Mr. Hyde- honestly after the whole fiasco with where the Dark Reign and Siege storyline went, he just never made since. Centurius or Doctor Century- whatever he was called, granted an older yet obscure character just seemed to be replacement for Fixer. Even though Fixer was in the book. And Luke Cage did not fit well in that roll. The part should have gone back to Hawkeye, he was the original bad boy and he's the one that should have gotten the group rolling. US Agent- they never should have crippled the character- okay so it added plot- but overall he got kind of boring and than you rarely saw him.

Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Sobe Cin: I actually like Troll.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Sobe Cin said:

@Vance Astro: There is always a point to the Thunderbolts, unfortately that point became- we don't have story for ourselves so each issue will cross over into the major cross overs and then fail miserably because when it did finally have a storyline it chose time travel. Time travel sucks when not done right, I stopped carring seven months ago. I wish I hadn't, but too late now. The only good new additions to the team since Secret Invasion were Ghost, Ant-Man, Juggernaut and Boomerang. Ghost fell into that niche that the book needed without having Fixer in it. Ant-Man made a good foil and as since gone on to have a great staring role within Secret Avengers. Juggernaut- well they ripped him away from the plot (one reason why I quit the book) and Boomerang, well always a classic villain- nice to see him in the title. But the little Troll girl which made no sense, Mr. Hyde- honestly after the whole fiasco with where the Dark Reign and Siege storyline went, he just never made since. Centurius or Doctor Century- whatever he was called, granted an older yet obscure character just seemed to be replacement for Fixer. Even though Fixer was in the book. And Luke Cage did not fit well in that roll. The part should have gone back to Hawkeye, he was the original bad boy and he's the one that should have gotten the group rolling. US Agent- they never should have crippled the character- okay so it added plot- but overall he got kind of boring and than you rarely saw him.

There is always SUPPOSED to be a point to Thunderbolts but that doesn't mean it's been executed well.The book isn't tied into major events because the writers lack the story.Marvel seen it work with other books so they are tying Thunderbolts in. in hopes that the book will maintain popularity by being part of something bigger.The problem is that like with books like Ms.Marvel,Blade,Moon Knight,Heroes for Hire and other books that had event tie-ins that boosted their popularity,the writing became stale because the character didn't fit in the event, it just became a noticeable gimmick to try and increase sales.I haven't been THAT interested in the team since Norman was the leader.They transitioned into Dark Avengers and I think that's how it should have stayed,Thunderbolts didn't belong in Dark Reign,Siege,or Shadowland because Marvel never really had any intention to make them a valid part of those events.
Moderator
Edited by X35

I do not want to read a book about boring d-list newer characters like June Covington or the Spider-Man guy. They suck. Outside of pretending to be other heroes, they have offered nothing else at all in Avengers. Why add shit characters nobody wants to read about when there's fan favorite characters like Mimic, Diamondback and Constrictor nowhere to be seen.

And I don't want to lose Songbird, MACH-V, Moonstone and Boomerang. They are perfect characters. Bring back Juggernaut and BAM! perfect core Thunderbolts team.

Posted by Vance Astro
@X35 said:

I do not want to read a book about boring d-list newer characters like June Covington or the Spider-Man guy. 

Actually the Decapitator is kind of Badass. 
 
@X35 said:

 Bring back Juggernaut and BAM! perfect core Thunderbolts team.

I would prefer Colossus be Juggernaut.Cain sucks. 
 
@X35 said: 

And I don't want to lose Songbird, MACH-V, Moonstone and Boomerang

I'm hoping Moonstone and Songbird don't go anywhere.
Moderator