beatboks1

Courtesy of this

@SpectresWrath01 said:

Use just superheros no villains, No divine characters or cosmic forces like Spectre, Ghost Rider or the Phoenix. No characters on that much of power scale. No characters from other dimensions or parallel universes. Use current mainstream characters. Your top ten vs mine!

The title is incorrect. If I can't use cosmic characters of that nature, it's not my top 10

@80sBaby said:

@CitizenBane said:

@80sBaby said:

The OP doesn't say this is a bloodlusted fight so Flash isn't soloing.

JLA loses their fight and the JSA loses there's very, very, very badly.

Explain how the JSA loses their fight when they have the Spectre, Dr. Fate, Alan Scott, Hourman One Million, Obsidian and Thunderbolt.

Because Thanos has the Infinity Gauntlet and they're not bloodlusted.

The IG would only make Thanos equal to one (at most two) of the six CB listed. one reality warper cannot beat 6.

Besides which those 6 could move the battle to another universe where it will have no power. Also if I'm not mistaken the infinity Gens can no longer work together anyway. Not that it matters. Living Tribunal could defeat the IG and Spectre isn't far behind him. With Fate, and the others Thanos can't win even if the IG is in MU and the gems are working together. The Worlogog gives Hourman the same level of power the IG gives Thanos as well.

Just like to remind you that without being "blood lusted" the JSA have fought the king of tears a few times with far from "every member ever' being involved. King of tears > IG wielding Thanos.

Well For me definitely the Thunder God. I'm not the honor mad warrior he is so I'd make full use of Mjilnor's power.

@MisterWhisper said:

3. Using the light speed movement and molecular manipulation, and life form ability I heal all disease across the planet, human, animal and plant. I also fix the genetic defects of the world.

Just want to point out that this one would actually do more harm than good. Genetic default is a requirement in nature. Survival of the fittest and all that. If there were none and all things were healthy that no amount of resources of the planet would support the life there on. This little mudball would have more problems of global warming and green house effect than it ever had from pollution from shear over population.

Anyone got a vote??

@yodagod: Yeah I think those who place Bruce in the top are overrating him for his tactical ability. Intellect comes down to a lot more than just tactics. You can be a brilliant tactician and not that smart in many other ways. I disagree about Ray Palmer though. his work in white dwarf easily matches anyhting Pym has done. he has however also shown over time a LOT of knowledge and expertise outside that little box. During invasion for example he was able to take tech left by the alien invasion and create weapons more advanced than those of the invaders. In 52 he discovered travel between dimensions/ universes on a quantum level. The E51 version of himself also created a device that destroyed that universe by accident which Ray figured out and stopped.

@okiedokiedrjones said:

@saintskillerz said:

Intellect. DC. Tao, Alex Luthor, Constantine, Majestic, and Vril Dox are all smarter than anyone Marvel has to offer. Better tech, better prep, better manipulators

agreed, these guys and the brainiacs blow marvels best out of the water

I'm a BIG fan of Constantine but I wouldn't class him as an intellect. He defeats many uber knowing characters with prep but this is more due to his telepathy and knowing what to use against them and his ability as a confidence man. to me intellect is someone who can turn the sciences of their opponents against them, as well as out smart. Just being able to out maneuver an opponent isn't going to cut it. That's whya I don't class batman up their.

Those on my list for example have demonstrated not just tactical ability but high level scientific knowledge in MULTIPLE scientific fields. It's like they have multiple doctorates and are tactically capable.

@Spartan101 said:

@beatboks1: despero above a skyfather??? i cant agree with that,odin or zeus would wreck him but thats off subject,ss bloodlusted imo is able to take despero out,as for lobo he can easy bfr him no problem at all.

@blackadamFTW: despero never possessed a ss level being before as you say so that way of wining is looking a bit remote. If ss bfr lobo into a blackhole despero could bring lobo back? i never knew despero had that much juice on bfr a foe.

As I've already stated Despero has single handedly defeated the combined power of Superman, Captain marvel, Wonder Woman and Powergirl. Captain marvel has the power of Zeus, WW is linked to and has the power of Gaea (both skyfather and they both have more power than that). He has also fought to a standstill (solo) the combined power of the Justice League of America, Justice League Europe and the Conglomerate. He has mentally subjugated many powerful beings simultaneously on several occasions and in Tp has only been bested by Starro who to do so drew on the power of the 100000's of minds he was linked to. The only other way he was defeated was with the martian gift of Mayavanna, which is basically allowing the person to live out their greatest desire (in Despero's case he saw himself kill the League). He has also fought the combined JLA and JSA and was only beaten by a plot device ( their combined power wasn't enough to stop him- power that included 3 reality warpers). Even Decapitation doesn't kill him as he simply regenerates.

You still have offered nothing as to how SS defeats a reality warper. None of his powers can contend with that and as I've said in every other power they are at least equal. Remember BOTH teams are blood lusted (though honestly Despero and Lobo don't have much in morals to apply).

You doubt all you want that he can't fight skyfather level but the facts are he;s way above that.

Despero regularly BFR's. His very first appearance he BFR'd the Silver Age JLA to multiple planets all while controlling them. He literally used them as chess pieces. When he wanted he simply took over their bodies and used them as pawns. it wasn't TP as their minds were still present watching everything they did with no power to stop it. He possesses them by the soul, much like Eclipso. When he possesses someone he also keeps his own power so if he were to possess say Thor or SS he would have their power plus his own. In addition he has a hypnotic power that also allows him dominance over others again without TP. If his body is destroyed (which is highly unlikely and hard to do) his consciousness becomes free floating and can possess another. It is also capable of and has regrown a body. It's pointless to say anyone BFR's in this fight as both sides have the power, whoever one side BFR's the other side can bring back.

If this was Despero without the flame of Py'tar than you'd be correct in your statements that SS could solo blood lusted. I asked the question on page 1 if he had the flame and on the top of page 3 the OP answered yes.Surfer has no way of defeating a reality warper blood lusted or not.

@Spartan101 said:

@beatboks1: a bloodlusted silver surfer using ALL his power cosmic would solo both,surfer holds back 99% time,he is a peacemaker by nature,if he gos bloodlusted and throws all his powers out at those 2 its over. his TP abilites are as good as desperos and with all the other tricks as his command the 2 are out gunned.

A blood lusted Sufer using ALL his power would still not be as powerful as Despero who can reality warp. Who has equal energy and matter manip and TP and the power to possess which is nothing like anything Surfer has faced. He would have his hands full with Despero who can defeat skyfather level beings. He's not soloing both him and Lobo who can't be killed (even by heaven and Hell) and can pull stars out of the sky with his strength.

@bluepride1234: Thor can BFR if he uses the power of Mjilnor to create a portal. It's out of character for him to do so. That's why he'll only do so in the blood lusted round.

@Switchdoctor said:

@beatboks1: Ohh and as for Brainiac mind controlling L.E.G.I.O.N suggest you re-read the annunal. It wasn't done through TP it was done through the Colluan Core (which he had hacked) and in doing so gained access to the enhanced charisma program his "son" Vril Dox Jr loaded into the core to reprogram the people of Colu. All the control that gave was through teh subliminal messages sent out by the data core.

I just re-read the annual and I'm not seeing anything like what you're saying here. Are you referring to another comic?

The only version of Brainiac that was a true telepath was when he was re-written just after COIE where he transferred his consciousness into the body of the Earth mentalist Milton Fine. As soon as he built a new android body to house his consciousness (then later a genetically designeded one) that was no longer the case. His technologically designed bodies have always allowed him technopathy.

I'm only talking about the Milton Fine era. The green one with the blonde beard from the 90s who had human frailties.

Can I ask what the hell all this talk about TP has to do with a STRENGTH rating thread??

It went off the rails when someone claimed that telepathy doesn't work on Doomsday because Martian Manhunter has tried.

I can't at this moment locate my Annual #1. I may be off as the one I'm recalling may have been later in the series. Now that I think about it the first encounter of Brainiac was the Milton Fine version. I still recall however that Brainiac returned to Colu and gained control of the populous via perverting the enhanced charisma program that Vril instilled in the Colluan Data core to to help Colu rebuild it's society after he removed the computer tyrants from power. Brainiac used this to make himself worshiped by the colluan populous and by their access to the colluan information system some of the members of LEGION.

To be certain i'll have to call on @AtPhantom , the only viner I can think of better versed in LEGION (or DC galactic/ cosmic) than me

After reading a couple of pages of this

GOD I feel old

Let's just say, unless we start living more than a 100 years on average, I'm Way past middle age.@Queso6p4 said:

27 but I'll be 28 in less than a month. I feel old.

I have a couple decades on you, trust me that's NOT old