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@DedmanWalkin : @nickthedevil : @Backflip : @ClarkAllen

OK Found one of the earlier threads with the teams on it.

dedmanwalkin - Crit Noll, Mr Negative, Captain Cold, Frederick Slade

VS

Nichthedevil - Spawn, Dr Light (Arthur), Mirror master, the Top

Clarkallen - Red Tornado, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Captain Atom

VS

Backflip - Capt Britain, Vulcan, Kyle Raynor, Meggan

@Dane said:

@beatboks1: Despite that kind of power, without actual feats it'd be hard to debate him. I'm purposefully staying out for two reasons:
1) It's generally hard to say that one sorcerer would beat another unless they've either fought directly or have a very obvious power--level disparity.
2) Who is allowed, isn't allowed and how gimped they are here seems to be a bit ambiguous.

1. Aside from power there's also with magic intent and drive to consider. One of the reasons i like magic characters is that some of the lowest in actual power can take on and beat the highest. It comes down to drawing on the right power building levels to just the right level and in a way like an old west gun slinger knowing when to shoot (shoot to early you miss and no matter how fast you are your shot before you shoot again to late and you run the risk of being shot first). You have to let loose when you've built the power enough to deal with the opponent. So you usually either need the the durability or the guile to last until you can. My choice of Arion is a perfect example. he's was depowered several during his 80's run because he literally put everything he had (as well as drawn from elsewhere) into a spell to win, to beat god's. he'd trained as a warrior so he could hold his own in a fight (damn good swordsman) and fight when depowered, but he literally held nothing back. Even when depowered and only able to cause illusions he was able to pull some wins against higher mages by drawing on an unusual source (usually to burn himself out again).
2. Yeah it could have definitely been clearer.I know it said no reality manipulation, but the list of characters offered contradicted. If anyone other than myself, Atpahntom or Creator chose the Kent Fate I highly doubt they'd even been aware of the half helmet version and his physical powers.

@Dane said:

@beatboks1: Well late Golden Age doesn't seem very modern. It just seemed odd to me that guys like Strange and Dormammu were out but Fate was in.

Agreed. When I picked him I had no idea that the Fate he had listed was the powered down version of the half helmet era. There was nothing to indicate so. I'd be happier with his first couple of years. Whilst he was called a sorcerer his showings were more like a modern Capt Atom controlling the energy in things.

Even if you take that version of Kent he's also allowing Hector Fate who whilst not anywhere near Classic Levels was still able to monitor Spectre without his knowledge and create a universe of his own making within the amulet he wears just from his subconscious. Imagine the possibilities when he applies himself.

@greenteaforme said:

@Dane said:

@greenteaforme: In what way is Doctor Fate even remotely like Captain Marvel?

They both have magically-gifted super strength, speed, flight and invulnerability.

Kent in his later showings gave up much of his magical power and relied much more on these powers.

Kent's "later showings" (as is Silver Age) are all as a sorcerer of immense power (at least the ability to entreat vast power and well on a par with Classic Strange). This is of course also his most known power levels (so many will vote based on that knowledge no matter what anyone says). The version your referring to is actually much earlier appearances basically from issue 74 of More fun comics (IIRC) to the end of his run there and in All Star. I'm quite happy to take him at the levels from More Fun comics #55 (his debut) until #73 (the last GA Appearance of the full helmet) and the matching All Star period. Or swapping to Inza Nelson Fate from the late 80's / 90's. During that First 19 months he was more an energy manipulator anyway using the energy from one thing to do another.

@Dane said:

@greenteaforme: Must have missed that story arc.

He's talking about Late Golden age. Kent lost/ gave up the Helm of Nabu in late 41 (19 issues after his debut). The Helm had much of his magic and (though not all he still had the Amulet of Anubis and his 20 years of training under Nabu, without any talismans what so ever he could still work vast spells in places of power like Salem, Stonehenge etc). Without the Helm he was left to his training and physical alterations. When Kent's father found Nabu's tomb when he was a child Nabu aged him to manhood, altered his body to make his super strong, fast, and impervious. He took away his ability to age and he was immune to disease. His only vulnerablity was that he still needed to breath so his weakness was his lungs. He also had his training and innate abilities. Namely mystic senses, he could levitate himself and other objects, telepathy, Telekinisis and work minor spells. It was retonned in All Star Squadron (one of Roy Thomas' explanations of things that just didn't make sense) that Kent Sensed the Helm was taking him over and wanted to determine his own destiny.

@greenteaforme said:

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme said:

All right =]

@beatboks1 said:

Dr Fate (Kent), Arion, Dr occult

Good team.

Cool. Honestly not getting the ban on Classic Strange but allowing Kent Fate (who's Classic and basically the same level as Classic Strange across the board), But hey whatever.

Because he has enough low showings in more modern incarnations to allow him in.

Any super high end feats from past Ages are not going to be allowed in.

Actual "Kent" ( not "Kent V" who is a completely different fate) doesn't have any "recent showings". He was last Fate in about 1986. When the Straus Fate era ended and he was brought back it was his wife Inza who assumed the role not him. The only "low showings" he has are from when he had given up the full helm of Nabu and was basically a Superman character with some spells and mystic senses instead of super senses ( In other words 1941 to the end of the GA).

@greenteaforme said:

All right =]

@beatboks1 said:

Dr Fate (Kent), Arion, Dr occult

Good team.

Cool. Honestly not getting the ban on Classic Strange but allowing Kent Fate (who's Classic and basically the same level as Classic Strange across the board), But hey whatever.

@Pwok21 said:

@Pwok21 said:

Constantine, Amos Kane and Zatanna.

That's my new team, also adding Anime will get this locked so ban that please.

Will do.

Also the inclusion of Anime wont get the tourney locked. The rule only applies to normal battles on the battle forum. In tourney's it's let slide as since each thread is only open for the two contestants to debate is can't incite flame wars. There have been multiple tournaments I've participated where Anime vs comics have been done. It doesn't even attract those who'd be in flame wars as usually the title of the thread is the name of the tourney and participants not the characters.

Dr Fate (Kent), Arion, Dr occult

@DedmanWalkin : @nickthedevil : @Backflip : @ClarkAllen

Hi guy's Sorry I let this slip

Semi final

Dedmanwalkin Vs Nickthedevil

Backflip Vs Clarkallen

- I trust you guy's remember your teams

Battle takes place in the Sanctum Sanctorum home of Doctor Strange. Team two has learned he has in his possession a crystal that allows the holder to access more power than the crimson gem of cyttorak and are trying to acquire it.They have had a days prep for this operation. Team one has just found out about imminent theft are looking to intercede. Team one knows all about team two (who they are dealing with etc) but are not prepared at all for any mystic defenses of the house. team one has prepared for the house but has no knowledge of team two until after they first meet. At that point they would know whatever anyone would likely know about them being in the same universe.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/fantastic-4-tourney-round-3-nickthedevil-vs-dedmanwalkin/677824/? Dedmanwalkin vs nickthedevil

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