beatboks1's forum posts

#1 Edited by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Just to clarify

Post resurrection Comet doesnt have super strength or speed anywhere near classc Comet levels. Where Classic could match superman, mon-el etc post could lift a sofa. He also doesnt have inv Invulnerability, he gained teleportation and a boost in some mental powers

Nu52 Animalman was able to stack the same power of many animals to attain rediculous levels. To the point where he was able to match a weakened Flash in rotworld. Pre 52 has only showed shown staching two (durability of a stegasaurus and rhino IIRC)

Inza Nelson Fate was the weakest in power of all versions. He power blasts actually did next to no damage (she was stated to lack destructive power). She was more creative in the use of her power and was stated to have greater creative power.

#3 Posted by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Comet (post resurrection/ mystery in space - pre resurrection breaks the speed/combat speed limit and probably a few more)

Animal man pre 52 (also excludes Rotworl feat which breaks speed limit)

Dr Fate Inza Nelson

Comet MLJ

Team perk ful knowledge

#4 Posted by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@batatest: you did well, lot better than just "trying". The buildings had been kineticaly charged by Gamvits power that was amped by IF's chi to chi eve higher levels. The rooms were also locked to ensure force would be required to enter them detonating them on whoever was at the door with a god almighty blast.

Having demonstrated the ability to see the kinetic charging and therefore detonate the trap from a safe distance you have survived.

You have however placed yourself in a position close enough to them to blow them which puts you quite a distance between you and your target with a lot

More booby traps on every path. Your blowing the room has also let us know which room you are near (though granted not as close as we'd banked on ) to further control and restrain your moves.

Seconds after the room blows so do two corridors near you. This only leaves you two ways to go, one of which is the way you came from ;)

#6 Posted by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: @sebast_allen

Sorry guy's Between 12 hour plus days at work and the other tourney's I'm in, I'm going to have to concede this. I just can't commit the time needed to gather the Youtube evidence for the three TV characters to support my arguments. And I hate relying on inaccurate wiki's that are easily proven wrong

#7 Edited by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF happened?? I posted several hours ago with a response to the completely fraudulent claims of the first of Firestormfates two posts (the second wasn't up).

I know votes are open but I am going to at least list the points of that post without the scans since no one has voted.

  1. All Scans I have used of BA/Cap marvel are canon to the version he has mentioned (WW3). Nothing preceded issue 4 of Power of Shazam and none were old at all. NONE were pre coie, none were non canon to the BA
  2. I did in my post put up scans from Black Adam Age of Darkness (2007) to further show this as well. The simple fact is he only has a single post COIE feat of FTL speed and I have posted it with the context. BTW the scan FF put up of Cap doesn't show FTL speed.
  3. So there are 3 times Cap has been stated to be FTL hey. Well I could post 20 times that numner of scans to the contrary. I can also post scans showing PG is faster than her team mate and she isn't FTL either. Not to mention the fact that she is vastly slower than Superman (shown on panel more times than I can poke a stick at)
  4. Comet has better reaction feats than BA having not only fought but defeated better speedsters (like Johnny Quick of the Crime SYndicate who matches Wally in battles). the lost post included scans.
  5. Simple Fact Buddy did what my opponent says he can't, on panel in the scans I provided. In the scan I provided of issue 50 he actually did VASTLY greater than that. He created life on a universal scale in all it's diversity from nothing.
  6. Neither Constantine or Ragman have ever "gotten past" the disk of the 7. It wasn't employed. the disk has defeated guys on Classic Fate level like Koth and it's shield have held against them. I stated that. The disk automatically repels hostile energy and it can counter or undo any spell. No way is anyone on a team of magical characters penetrating a shield made by it. If Koth who could solo your entire team can't then you certainly can't.
  7. None of my characters have "unstable DNA". This is simply a misrepresentation. In fact Czarnian DNA is stated several times to be the most stable that exists (by Dox who is more knowledgeable on the subject than his father who has very little interaction wit Lobo). That is why so little affects it. Complex =/= unstable so the argument is void
  8. My opponent has misrepresented many things claiming that people were fought by BA in events like WW3 who weren't even around.

Now to the other false claims in the next post.

  1. Jay isn't FLT at all. he has stated so on panel several times. I think if anyone would know if they were FTL he would. To be specific, when Asked by Mr Terrific if he could go FTL (in the issue before the scans I loaded) his response was NO, only Wally can. The simple fact was in the scans I already posted he needed to steal BA's speed JUST to achieve light speed
  2. Jay was actually the fastest one in WW3. Yes the GL's due to warps etc can travel at FTL but they don't have reaction speed anywhere near that. As for those others being "pretty fast" Hourman has a speed of 60MPH, yeah super super fast isn't he. Never mind the fact that in WW3 most of the battle is BA not even reacting to them but tanking what they dish out and then simply striking harder.
  3. Occult relying on his precog alone is ambiguous. he doesn't have to only rely on that. In the meditative state he's going into in my prep he can actually watch the events about to unfold. If he spends 10 minutes doing so he will see 10 minutes of 1 possible future. He actually isn't as low in power or as prep dependent as John because he has one of the most powerful artifacts in the DCU as a power source. One that is always as powerful as any mystic force it faces. In COIE every mystic in the DCU focused their power through his disk and Alan Scot's power battery to give spectre a chance. Hardly a power issue.
#8 Posted by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@dedmanwalkin: been happening to me a lot lately. Ive started pming a copy of all my posts to my alt account somif something goes wrong I can just copy and paste the whole thing format scans and all straight back in the debate

#9 Edited by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestormfate1919:

I dont have too much more to put up for my side so I might as well put up the lot and be done.

To put away the idea that BA could blitz Animal man once and for all, you need to consider reactions as well as speed.

here we see Buddy taking on the relative time rate of a fly. Depending on the fly they have life spans between hours and months. The fact that the scan states his reactions are only multiplied by ten shows it was one of the longer living ones he used here. Essentially this means that Buddy's perspective on things can allow him to react much better than BA since what is 80 years for Buddy (average human life span) comparatively is a few months for BA. He has time to spare to react.

Lets remember that I have prep and a character with the ability to know everything i need to know about the situation at hand. In fact Occult can watch things out of time.

Occult can watch a little of the start of the battle when in his meditative state and and my team will be prepared and ready to act. having done so the last part of our prep would be to make the necessary changes to make your blitz null and void.

As you can see by his teaching alone he has the power to become immaterial. I actually thought his ability to teleport relied on the disk but it seems I was in error there too (as he was given this AFTER he was taught to do so).

I can see an argument forming now that it wont be allowed because it's time manipulation. it's not, he can't change, alter or affect what he sees in time this way, it's simply how he can know so much. There is no way you can start battle without my being 100000% prepared for what ever you might come up with.

Simply put when the battle starts Buddy will have already taken on the relative time rate of a fly with only a few weeks life (at best) making my amalgams reactions as far above yours as Zoom is above Flash. Occult will have made the amalgam intangible (meaning you cant even touch it, to harm it), and used his disk to enhance the force field Dox always wears to make it even stronger and completely immune to magic. Argus will have made us invisible to you.

for any attack of yours to work it has to

  1. find us
  2. penetrate a protective field that is the combined strength of Occults disk of the seven (which is literally as powerful as the magic that is near it and you brought plenty of that for me to use), and Dox's force field
  3. catch the combined speed of Comet + Animal man +Lobo
  4. touch what is intangible
  5. overcome the combined durability of Lobo+Comet+Animal man
  6. get past the combined regeneration of Lobo + Argus + Animal man

Not really having odds in your favor are there.

My opponent's argument hinges on the fact that my amalgam wont work. Unfortunately for him I have provided on panel proof that Buddy can access the power to combine living organism's into a super hybrid form. Regardless of how he thinks it will work, I have the canon of the character to prove he can do exactly what I state.

Worst case scenario i don't get Comet's power evolving the other base stated merged as I thought. In which case I simply get the hybrized powers of all (or their powers stacked as I have just mentioned in this post). That just happens to be also proven by the canon of the power that Buddy uses. This being the case I don't need to stick with just Classic Comet and could have chosen composite which gives me even greater mental powers (maybe next round).

My opponent would have us believe that BA is FTL, which he isn't and I have provided plenty of canon proof to show that. he is just below light speed but so is Animal man (which is why I showed the feats of him matching Rotworld Flash- Flash is obviously well above light speed capable so at half power near Light speed isn't a stretch at all). Simple fact is, you picked BA as a 5 pointer. The thing about 5 pointers was they can't be FTL (that would make them 8 points). That was teh whole reason Comet for me was an 8 and the others weren't. Picking BA as a 5 pointer means by the tourney rules EVEN IF he were FTL, he isn't here.

My opponent made the mistake of coming into battle with a team of 5 characters of which 4 are magic based in power. Considering I have Occult who can counter all magic, this means even without an amalgamation of my team members Occult alone can solo you entire team. he can enter the battle intangible and use his disk to undo the magic that gives all of them their powers and leave Human Bomb alone to face my whole team.

Hows that working out for you

#10 Edited by beatboks1 (7633 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestormfate1919:

I've just worked an 11 hour day on a Sunday and am dead tired, so this wont be as thorough as a reply as I would normally give (with quotes etc)

1. Your argument to try and apply real worked science and genetics is a failed one because the canon of the comics shows it is possible. Bwanna beast's power is the ability to merge creatures into a hybrid form that has the combined and merged abilities of all those involved.You talk about what Buddy can do and what Bwanna beast could do as if it were different, it's not. Buddy could and can use Bwanna beasts power EXACTLY as he did.

First one is an example of how Buddy had become completely BB's equal and was stalemating him with his own TP power. second one he clearly states he could sue BB'sower to MERGE CREATURES INTO A SUPER HYBRID FORM, third one is a cap off back when in issue 50 of his run he was integral in creating life in a whole universe.

OH no, there is no way that he could do the limited thing I'm suggesting here. He can create life on a universal scale with two other less red linked allies but can't merge 6 guys into one when we have canon proof that is exactly one of the powers in the pool he can draw on.

In this instance that would mean

  • The physicals of Lobo and Argus- let's say for the sake of argument Argus' physicals are redundant under your real world science analogy, that still leaves lobo
  • The mental capacity of Dox
  • The TP, and TK of Occult (the rest of his powers are dependant on his disk)
  • The genetic evolution of Comet. this is the be and end all of his power. When he first appeared as a hero it was only with his mental powers. When Overmind (an enemy of Superman) stole these his body instantly evolved to be a physical match for Superman (he had apparently mentally prevented this part of his evolution)
  • Argus' vision and shadow meld
  • Animal mans ability to draw on the red, which was made a part of him genetically when he was "genamorphically" linked to it.

End result since the base body is hundreds of thousands of times stronger than the base body that Comet had that evolved into Superman's equal Lobo's body is vastly stronger than BA.

Since Dox was already a genius vastly greater than Cap Comet the fact that he became a genius makes Dox vastly greater.

The base body of Comet that had no TP and TK evolved into a very powerful mentalist so powerful that he could match and defeat green Lanterns with their own power, starting off with TP/TK makes this greater by an order of magnitude.

Argus' vision allows him to see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, future events, see through deception and how things go together and see portents of things in the framework of the universe. plus the ability to meld with the shadows and become invisible - even un-evolved that's a great boon.

And Animal mans genetic link to the red courtesy of the aliens playing with his DNA. This likely wont hbe enhanced but doesn't need to be.

even if we assume that Comet's evolution isn't what would be gained (and honestly it isn't what Dox would be expecting for the reasons you have stated- he'd be expecting what I'm about to suggest), that would simply mean

  • strength of Lobo+ Comet+ Argus
  • Durability/Regeneration of Lobo+ Comet + Argus
  • Speed of Comet+ Lobo+ Argus
  • vision of argus
  • TP/TK Occult + Comet
  • Brain of Dox + Comet +Occult

Bottom line, the canon of comics allows me to do it with this character, and even if we apply real world sciences instead of the pseudo comic science that is part of the actual canon, your screwed.

You can say it doesn't work for scientific reasons as much as you like, but the fact that is has ON PAGE, in canon comics makes your argument nonexistent (time to take a different tact- denial simply wont cut it)

BTW I'd like to point out, I don't have a single meta-gene in my mix. Lobo is of the race Czarnian, Dox is Coluan, Comet is a Mutant, Occult is a normal human with a psychic gift (the reason he was chosen by the seven), and Argus was altered by interaction with a parasite into his bloodstream in Bloodlines, Buddy was morphogenically altered by aliens. Saying things wont work because of meta genes is a pretty poor argument when I have NONE to cause a problem (not even on in the whole shebang).

I'd also like to point out another MAJOR fallacy in your argument. Throwing up natural selection in the face of spontaneous evolutions is not a factor. Natural selection cannot occur in cells where no chance exists for an event to decide which is the stronger characteristic to survive. This is why Comet develops ALL his attributes and not just those that would be decided to be of value by survival of the fittest. In a very real sense the physical attributes become less likely to allow survival against a more intelligent and mind powered race. the use of physical abilities would be a complete redundancy in a race that could use mind over matter. Yet Comet developed all. Yet more canon proof that your assumptions on why my plan wont work are simply completely and utterly unsupported by the canonized facts of comics. Yet another example would be the high evolutionary, New God's. Marvel's entire mutant population, I could list a few dozen more.

So Black Adam is FTL is he?? let's dispell that BS once and for all right now.

BA is so often incorrectly compared to Captain Marvel as his complete and utter equal in every respect. This of course isn't the case, Cap has the distinct speed advantage having the speed of Mercury while BA has the speed of Heru (sorry typo in last post).

In this scan we see that it takes ALL the speed of Mercury to match Flash when he is "keeping it JUST this side of light speed". Cap has been able to go close to matching BA in speed even when either Mary or Freddy are powered up (which means at half power).BA has ONLY ever been faster than Cap when all three marvel's are powered up

So now we've addressed Cap's stated "inability to Keep up with BA". Try and find a single time of him having such a problem when Cap is the only one of the marvel family powered up???

So Cap is Under light speed at full power, and BA is only faster than him when he's at a 1/3 of that. Every other fight they have had where either Mary or Freddy are powered but not both BA's speed advantage is negligible at best.

I can show many other scans that verify. like when cap told NASA that he would need an assist to get to Venus because it would take him quite a while to do it under his own power. It only takes light between 3 to 13 minutes to reach earth from Venus. If he was FTL it wouldn't take long at all. Or I could show any of a few dozen fights where BA only JUST keeps ahead of Cap while Mary or Billy are elsewhere. I can also show more than a few of Cap outright being faster than BA when neither is powered up. Context is always to be considered.

The big argument I always see is how BA traveled from the far side of the universe to Earth in 5000 years. This is a laugh because

  • It's no longer canon anyway.
  • Based on Universal expansion (a fact confirmed in LoSH to be true even in DCU, it's not that far to travel

I know when you go to wikis you'll see it stated that it's a distance of 156 billion light years. Well here's the truth. From earth to the edge of the universe now is 46 billion light years. The universe however expands, based on it's current rate (which isn't a viable way to calculate- I'll cover soon) that expansion over the last 4500 years (I'm allowing for BA to have come from the end of the Egyptian empire) would be 7,029,374,400,000 km per megaparsec (which 3.08567758 × 1022 area).

The fact that it took him that long with the universe actually expanding our past him at such a rate and having started (using the fasle calculation we can) 21,088,123,200,000 × 1022 km closer that 46 billion light years away - is actually more proof of the fact that he ISN'T FTL (if it were still a canon feat).

The fact is if you do the math it makes the universe negative in size at that time. that's because the rate of the universes expansion is always increasing, and unfortunately it's rate hasn't been calculated until recently so we have no idea of the rate of increase to gauge it by, and no way to actually calculate the size of teh universe when Shazam sent him. In other words it's a non calculable feat that provides no evidence of anything.

I can supply canon proof all day long to show that BA is not Light speed (let alone FTL), so you might want to give up that argument. Just to deal with it now in case you decide to use this feat I'll address it now with FULL context.

So yes the one and ONLY feat of both exceeding light speed. Notice how Billy is actually shocked that he is?? Then he understands, it's because they are heading to the ROE (to which they have a link) which is linked to all space and time. Just in case you decide to throw up the first panel that you will likely find on any BA respect thread falsely representing the fact.

So go ahead and post all your feats of Superman getting tagged, It doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds of canon instances showing that BA isn't a light speeder.

Sorry dude I'm not underselling BA's speed I'm using the facts. he's between half and light speed (probably close to light) and not above. Animal man has achieved the same (which is what i showed in my scans because Flash at full speed is vastly over light speed, so matching one at half speed is close to light at the very least). Comet is vastly over light speed. Lobo fights characters at that speed regularly and deals easily. You don't and never did get any speed advantage, Hanging so much of your argument on an advantage you never gained was a mistake.

Some false claims you'll need to provide proof for (good luck with that)

  1. When has BA blitzed JSA even once, I've put up scans of one of their only three fights and he wasn't blitzing then. The only JSAers he blitzed in WW3 were street level.
  2. Dianna, Clark and Hal weren't even in WW3. It was while Clark was on New Krypton, Flash was missing, Hal was Too and Dianna was.
  3. Show a single scan of Adam defeating Superman (which has never occurred), and better yet of him being faster. I can show a few dozen of Superman showing superior speed to BA like below
  4. Show a single scan of ANYONE blitzed by BA in WW3. Seriously, standing there taking blows and knocking people down as they come at you after you know they're right on top of you, isn't a speed showing. I've had this debate with other BA fans quite a bit. the only showing of any speed in WW3 was when Jay was pounding the crap out of him with millions of blows and a swinging arm from BA sends him flying. a) Jay isn't FTL, b) swinging an arm around you in full swing has bloody good odds of hitting anyone in your arms reach no matter how fast they are.
  5. Alan is capable of traveling at FTL speeds, he doesn't have that type of combat speed at all. Nor does he have that type of perception.

So there is that. Now to your (non) counter points.

  1. There are two versions of Comet in pre 52 Continuity. I chose (and it specifies) Classic Comet. The instances of Comet getting tagged are the more recent version after his resurrection. This resurrection saw his physical powers vastly reduced and his mental ones vastly increased (plus he gained Teleportation). There was a reason I mentioned the feats of TP against the SSoSV and Chronos rather than his MUCH more powerful showings of mind linking every Green Lantern, Dark star and member of Legion. In trying to sell a case of mind linking 6 characters that would have been a pretty good sell, don't you think. Unfortunately it's not the version I selected. Suppose I could have chosen Composite like I did for animal man (that was specifically to have access to rot world flash speed, while still having access to Bwanna beast power AND the not needing to have the source of the red I was drawing near). The reason I didn't choose composite for Comet was it also lost me the nature of his evolution as power. So I'm sorry to say that almost (but not quite ) all feats of someone tagging Comet aren't the comet I have ;D
  2. As for blitzing GL's the scan doesn't show him blitzing, it shows him quantifiable going at least a few times the speed of light. The pertinent part of the scan was the fact that he made it from earth to mars in moments. It takes light 22 minutes to do that, and he caught Sinestro who had a head start, because he tended to Hawkman AND had a conversation first.
  3. reacting at Super speed isn't necessary for someone with precog to fend of a blitz attack when it's stated they went into a meditative state at the start of my 15 minutes prep. So essentially Occult knows about the blitz attack 15 minutes before it starts. You know what will fend off a blitz attack? Intangibility (one of Occult's powers courtesy of the disk of the seven). I would love to know How BA could harm Occult who can simply be intangible as soon as the battle starts (which means my amalgam character will be). His disk can also conveniently remove the magic that transforms BA making him Teth and destroyed in a heartbeat.
  4. Argus has the power to become invisible in shadow. We have prep and know because of it with our precog what you will do. the ability to dimensionally travel to be in a shadow to make use of this (redundant since Occult also has invisibility so our amalgam will be both invisible and intangible when the battle starts). So how would BA even find him.
  5. Dox (if it was just Dox) wears a force field (permanent fixture) that has withstood a point blank thermonuclear warhead, tanked the attacks of several Sinestro corps, Black lanterns and more.
  6. Ragman and Human Bomb are just a non event. One is powered by a magical suit that had the souls of his father and friends transferred into it. The other is loaded with energy. Unfortunately for you Occult's dis is the perfect answer for all your magic (as it counters all magic and undoes any spell he wants it to), and sends all anergy abck to where it came from. essentially making any of your energy attacks harm you.

That's about all I have for a quick response.