beatboks1's forum posts

#1 Edited by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Palmer also rides winds ( glides). His power isn't just to alter size but mass. Originally he could alter hisass from his normal full heights santo anything below. after power of the Arom however he can induce greater From his piece of white dwarf . He used this to have an "atomic punch"

You act as if Barry has a way of seeing Ray, he doesn't. Palmer can be at sizes well beneath the notice of a full size without going sub atomic. As weightless gliding on the wind he can wait until his quarry isn't moving at speed and then draw more mass to fall on him at a weight, or land and attack him from say his inner ear (imagine the damage one could do to themselves running at super speed and loosing balance?

Barry on the other hand has no way of actually striking Ray except Maybe winds bursts.

#2 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I won't get to this till tomorrow arvo after work (20 or so hrs) bout to hit the sack

#3 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 due to Loki.

Clearly this was before our CAV of Hellstrom vs Thor. Loki isn't beating Daimon and seriously i don't see Spiral getting close to matching Enchantress.

#4 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: can't speed for nu 52 or for that matter much of post COIE atom ( sword of the atom was the last series of his I read ) but pre COIE Palmer often rode on electrical, and transmission waves so could travel at close to light speed. He would make international phone calls and travel from us to France in the the time someone could say hello. He'd ride radio waves to the JLA Satellite etc.

Palmers rogues gallery is probably the only one more underrated than Flash's. Chronos for example is one of the best time manipulators in comics who's power over time makes zoom and Kadabra look insignificant and he beats him with ease.

I'm going to say Palmer takes the majority if anyone can work out how to defeat the speed force it's Palmer

#5 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: not to mention Zoom tanks blows from WW and superman. His durability is far from normal human. Wally has stated zoom moves so fast that he is a blur even to him. The odds that Bart could actually connect a full force blow are a zillion to one.

#6 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@beatboks1: I just wanted clarification. On the other thread I only had a select few scans and that's all I have of the issue. However Fate wasn't characterized as weak, he was unable to tag Barry because they were showcasing the powerset of each member. For example, Kal L's and Kal El's power was demonstrated throughout the comic. Barry's speed was showcased in the crossover. Call Fate being unable to tag Barry PIS.

I call it PIS when as Atom himself said Fate is "off his rocker" not using his magic to just auto track and tag Barry. I call it PIS when by Page 2 of an issue they make him almost completely depleated in power so that on page 10 they can have a character who should be able to solo the JLA be taken down by two members.

For the sake of the plot Fate was vastly underpowered.

For the sake of the plot Fate was mind controlled and stupid (only possible because he was underpowered) I mean come on an entity know as "the wise" resides within his Helm guiding his hands. how would he NOT think to have self aiming tracking blasts???

For the sake of the plot ray palmer was able to pinch in indestructible body and make it flinch so his team mate could could deck it.

Yeah NO PIS here

#7 Edited by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: OK found my copy. What about it?? You mentioned it in the other thread. Yes Barry punched Fate and got a brief KO. That brief KO was AFTER

  1. Fate and the JSA fought cosmic entity that had taken Starman's cosmic rod to amp it and lost and been BFR'd
  2. Had used his magic to sustain the JSA for a few weeks without food or water until he was almost completely spent
  3. had finally gotten to relax only to be under the mind control of said entity and not acting with his full reason
  4. Showed to be not thinking by not using his normal incredible intellect when attacking Flash
  5. Was attacked from under his mask by a shrunken Atom who was subsequently able to cause him a distraction that Flash (Barry) then Took advantage of of it and struck him. Even then commenting how much it hurt

You don't get a much more PIS battle than that. Absolutely everything was contrived to have Fate at his absolute weakest point ever (while still wearing the helm- but standard OP for any Fate participation in a team cross over). He had to A defend and secure his team mates from a being who would throw the earth around like a child's toy. then keep them alive without sustenance to the point he was left with Nothing in power reserve. Even then it took him being under another's sway and not acting with his usual reactions plus a distraction JUST to get a KO of him for an instant. Not what I'd call a bad showing in all. Two members of the JLA had to work together to temporarily take down a vastly weakened Fate who said "his powers were nearly exhausted" 5 pages earlier. All that had to happen just to KO him.

#8 Posted by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@reaverlation: @easternwind:

2. never said fate would beat Wally I said that at best it's stalemated because the win condition was death and fate can't die. Not the case here

2. Zoom >>>>> Wally . Wally moves in distance per time zoom moves in time. Zoom moves in the very thing that measures Wally's power . The difference is exponential

Why tag me? I meant i didnt think he couldnt beat some of what you said, I didnt disagree with the wally thing.

I didn't try to tag you. I replied on an iphone and only hit reply to reaverlation. It shouldn't have tagged you, nut I've found CV playing up a LOT lately.

#9 Edited by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@beatboks1: Have you read Justice League of America #74?

I have but not since I was about 10 or 11 (when I read it new). Trying to find the issue now.

#10 Edited by beatboks1 (6387 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts said:

@diredrill Wait so let me get this straight. You're saying that Superman wouldn't get mad if the Question killed four people, but would get mad if he killed all of them? Because that seems to me that's what you're saying and that's just flat-out false. Superman would get mad if even killed one person.

We never see an in-character Superman kill, with the exception of his fight with Doomsday.

Vic killed people. Period. If he was worried about Superman, I don't think he would have killed a single person. In fact, I have direct proof that what you're saying is false.

And isn't that the same porter potty in beatboks' set of scans? Meaning he was warned/threatened by Superman before he killed the other four or so people that you're talking about? Does Vic seem concerned by Superman's warning? Nope. In fact, after the fight...

Does Superman give Vic a pat on the back saying "Hey, you only killed a mere couple of people. Way to go buddy!"? Nope. Superman told him that he's too ruthless and that he needs to hit the road. Which was pretty gracious of Superman considering what he could have done to him. Point is, The Question never displays an ounce of concern or fear around Superman and in fact displays the exact opposite. Your theory is invalid.

The context you've applied here while correct it needs to be pointed out is still as far as Vic is concerned "holing back". Up until the fight at the construction site of the Science spire (which was designed to tap the restless souls of an indian village slaughtered on that site and use as a magical weapon against Superman) Vic had only killed one person himself in Metropolis ( a fact he pointed out in one of your scans when he asked superman to ask the question who did). There were a lot of innocents at stake and Vic can't stop bullets of catch them like Superman (for some reason scan loaded above rather than here.

All the other deaths to that point were done by the Subterraineans themselves (even of their own men).

before he got to Metropolis however he did kill in Chicago quite easily.

He also has no compunctions about killing as far back as Question quarterly where operating in Hub city (the apparently most corrupt city in the US) he would readily kill often. There was a reason Shiva saw something in him and didn't kill him on their first encounter and instead sent him to Richard Dragon to be trained and honed. She though once trained he would be the perfect killer and a worthy battle.

Now when it came to the end he needed to have some dead men to use their souls to protect Superman, but he also needed them to die in a particular way. So that the souls had suffered certain torments so that they would suitable block the energy of the souls to be tapped that another mystic had freed for Luthor's Lieutenant.

There is one last scan I've been reluctant to use because it comes very close to breaching a limit of the tourney

He was able to whisper a suggestion to Minos (leader of the Subteraineans) to make him regroup his men where he had a clear shot at all at once. Now while his not being seen is an illusion around himself making a suggestion seem to another like it was something they came up with themselves wasn't. I would say it takes more to convince someone that what you whispered to them was their own idea that to perceive someone else in the place of another.

@erik said:

@beatboks1: But the goons were actually thrown by the backhoe. Not an illusion. Plus he was asking the city to guide his hand in his attack while they were thrown. It seems to me that he performed his attack with the backhoe himself, then left before it was blown up, so he could attack with the bulldozer. It's not hard to believe that a comic book character could rig some chains to a steering wheel in the time it took for Vic to do it. Especially when the character is noted as particularly fast, like Vic was. Doubly so when the spirit of the city is guiding his hand all along the way.

I'm sorry to say that I am unconvinced of the broad range the illusion casting can accomplish. The way I see it, Vic is only able to mask or alter his own presence. This means he can render himself invisible, can look like someone else, or give the illusion that he is somewhere other than where he is within a few dozen feet or so.

@lvenger said:

@diredrill: Yes I know but, I'm not gonna lie, I wish @cjdavis103 hadn't posted your strategy too early without more discussion or a general consensus on what was going down. Our current strategy relies on CJD remaining alive and the odds aren't exactly in his favour thanks to the terrorist team.

I wish everyone on a team would get on the same page too. I've seen backpedaling and contradicting strategies aplenty in the last few pages and truth be told, it's hurting you guys a lot.

Totally true but f you look at the other scans there are multiple incidents of vic's "illusions" causing action when he clearly wasn't there at the time.

Here we see a man being choked by Vic while we also see he is no where near in reach. In fact we see that he's made quite a bit of distance in the very next panel. We also saw in the excavator that while we saw him in the cockpit praying the very next panel showed him not there in the side on view "while the men were being thrown".

As I said from the start based on all evidence i don't believe his illusions have much range. Clearly in the scan Fetts posted Superman can perceive who he is etc from a distance with his senses but can't tell who it is when in the same room. To do that "detailed an illusion" of making someone think they thought what you want he had to be right on top of him ( so to speak). He also obviously had to be damn close to create an illusion so real that someone felt they were being choked. I stated in my character build that I figured his range for illusions is only around 50m and everything I recall from the series in question supports about that. This is going to mean that to pull this off I'm going to have to be very bloody close to who ever I'm casting them on. If I'm making the enemy minions see something the way I see it i'm too far away from the leaders (opponents characters) to affect them with them and vice versa. Also if he can project his own image elsewhere (which you agree he does) what is the difference between that and projecting the image of another?? Let's remember that in the series he was fighting alone, and had no one else to cast an image off. Who else's image would he have cast they were after all looking for him.