Obsidian (pre 52)
Thankgod. It's not very fair on Roddy and I, if we do all this debating and lay out strategy and Juiceboks gets votes without even showing up.
@roddy010: Impressive battle and good job. It was an enjoyable read. I'm ready to vote whenever it opens.
It's open for voting. All it ever really takes is for both participants to agree and we have.
@zhurong: he was showing an example of PIS fight with Shiva since a PIS Fightnwith bats is being used to low ball KK. We were supposed to accept Bruce beating a mind wiped Val, what's the difference.
Karate Kid is overrated. Batman stalemated him twice. Batman has never beaten Shiva who isn't actually the best fighter in the world. With her stats amped 10x she should wreck Karate Kid.
He's never actually hurt a Kryptonian and has no fighting feats to put him above normal stat Shiva. If their stats were equal it'd be a great fight.
Batman lasting even a second against KK is pure and utter PIS. The guy has shattered diamonds with a karate chop. Put his fist through future armored tanks that just panels before withstood plasters. has leveled a mountain, stopped an earth quake with a punch and a kick and shattered a meteor.
All that aside in the so called "two battles" one he was partially brain washed and had lost part of his memory and another he was preparing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and intending to die.
Show me a single instance of Shiva using a throw to turn an attack at light speed into that opponent ending up light years away in a second ^ ^
or anything close to this
The fourth, fifth and sixth LAST scans in that set are KK fighting and HURTING nemisis kid, who is BTW a Kryptonian. He also get's the crap beaten out of him, but he gets his licks in too. (NK is not the type to ever hold back and stomped Supes and Mon-el).
Oh and as for speed. here he is reacting to the Tornado Twins ( Barry Allen's kids)
And here is a non PIS battle with Bat's with Val toying with him
It makes perfect and utter sense that a guy who couldn't even lay a glove on him once but, successfully only blocked a single blow, who's uniform was in tatters while KK's wasn't even damaged in the least, and could be stripped casually of his weapons would be able to beat the same guy in another two fights.
Any fight with batman beating KK is fan fiction writing.
KK still wins rather easily due to greater speed/reaction by a large margin.
Shiva is a bullet timer so 300m/s increased stats by 10.000 still places her at 3,000,000 m/s. KK reacts to speeds greater than light which is 299 792 458. Shiva would still only be 1% the speed and reaction of KK..
In one battle he reacted to a blitzing Mon-el and by sheer deflection of his strike sent him light years away in seconds.
WTF I loaded 8 scans and only two appear
A host less Spectre is weaker than any one with a host so far weaker than the strongest host. So that sort of proves my point.
I already showed scans of a bring with universal reality warping power unable to affect 20th century Mordru. If that is the best you have then it's not giving you a win over the far more powerful 30th cent one. It basically took every mystic in the universe JUST to weaken him to half power and bind him to earth and even then he was a beast and vastly more powerful than his 20th cent being. I also showed one of the dozens of times it stated in panel he was without end and unable to be destroyed.
Mordru wouldn't loose in single combat based on what you've shown. Stalemate maybe but there'd need to be more to defeat him.
@beatboks1: Tone it down a little, maybe? Dr.fate fought spectre for 7 pages? Parallax actually defeated the spectre, and parallax was still no match for volthoom. I still stand by my opinion. Dr.fate wouldn't solo the entire green lantern corps, your being dellusional.
OMG parallax defeated the Hal Jordan Spectre which is <<<<<<<<< than Jim Corrigan version who Classic Fate faced.
Classic Dr fate defeated two universal reality warpers who wiped the universe out of existence and replaced it with a creation of their own. In other words he defeated two beings who DID defeat every single GL and every other being in existence.
When he was done he just warped the universe back to normal.
All you have to do is show me a single feat for the entire Green Lantern Corps surviving being warped out of existence to prove me wrong. This is classic Fate man, not current weaker versions. Just like Spectre in those scans was the one who faced anti-monitor and held two universes apart in COIE.
30 century Mordru was stated post COIE to be able to destroy the universe in under 7 seconds. The lousy 20th century version (who's a mere fraction the power he is in a 1000 years) couldn't be harmed or affected by a universal reality warper. Not to mention 20th century one has shown to vastly in power every single appearance as he drains more and more power from every opponent he faces. His last appearance in the 20th century saw him beat shazam in his place of power while greatly amped (and after costing Shazam that amp the wizard then fought the lowly spectre of DoV for a few pages). This was before he also absorbed all the power of sorcerers world and the magic of half the universe.
Well, there you go. Alan Scott is a non-factor in this match if Volthoom so much wishes to, you know why? Volthoom can just drain all his emotonal spectrum making him soooo weak. Seriously, dude. Volthoom was making a fool out of 7200+ green lanterns, 200+ red lanterns and the entire blue lantern corps. not only that, but do you know what else was nothing compared his power? Parallax, parallax's attacks didn't hurt him at all. It took Black lantern Hal to get Nekron so they could remove his powers. I really think that Parallax, 7200+ green lanterns, 200+ red lanterns, white lantern kyle, parallax > JLA, JSA and LoSH. I think it's a better feat to humiliate all those lanterns and parallax, rather than the JLA, JSA and LoSH.
Pre COIE /Classic Fate would have soloed the Green Lantern Corps. The guy fought Spectre for several pages.
That wasn't the sucky Hal Jordan or Crispus Allen Spectre. that was the Jim Corrigan Spectre who held universes apart during COIE.
30th Century Mordru did this to him AFTER he amped himself.
The Kryptonians of that story could do this
In otherwords Superman (e1), Superman (e2), Superboy (Losh), Mon-el, Ultraboy, Powegirl, and a few others like this. Each one would have soloed 7200+ green lanterns, 200+ red lanterns, white lantern kyle and there were a few more there than that (LoSH had 50 members)
Anyone who at HALF power can one shot a guy who can fight the spectre in even combat for 7 pages would murder stomp 7200+ green lanterns, 200+ red lanterns, white lantern kyle, parallax. And no that collection isn't greater than the assemblage of heroes mentioned. Show me a single one who can move over a dozen planets under their own power. Hell the whole lot of the GLC couldn't contain the starheart but Alan does.
I made a mother ass post about how powerful 30th Century Mordru is and your only retort is about Alan when all i did was correct your delusion that Parallax would harm him when he already hasn't.
@roddy010: Again no notification
In each of those scans there is a clear mention of magic being used. The very first scan you posted even states "To distract you from Arion's magicks". He clearly has to tap into a magical source to perform his feats and you have yet to prove otherwise.
Dude i can post scans that show Arion refers to a galactic space craft as magic. Not to mention the machines in the scans I posted he referred to as magic. It doesn't make it so. Every single scan I used of his TP was when he was compeltely magically depowered. Soemthing that has happened to Arion a few times throughout his run. In several of them you will see he is not wearing the ruby coloured jewel that is his power source (normally worn either on his tunic chest or belt). the same jewel that you see in the scan of his "father" Caculha calling his essence form the stars to give it form.
The scans where he TP probes the machinery in the room was only a few issues after when he put an end to the second ice age. he achieved that by overloading the entity that was draining the sun of it's power with all of his own.
Literally the only way he could do anything of power in that time was by burning a crystal of power as seen in these scans. The only "spells" he could cast required prep and time during that era. Yes he referred to them as magic, because he understood everything of power as magic. In that era much that was science was also called magic. *note you see the gem I refer to in the last panel. around this time when he wore it it was usually shown as darker in colour to signify it had no energy.
Nice but casting an illusion on fodder minds isn't proof enough he could stand against Jean and Psylocke on the Astral plane
I've already posted the proof with him standing against Celestial level beings while depowered and only possessing mental powers. This was just to show case that your incorrect about him using magic to do so.
In the very same issue as the two scans in this post Arion with no magic senses the danger of a strong psionic. One who had consumed the psionic energy of entire civilizations. One who told arion "his mind was very strong" and who was resisted by Arion's "psionic will". A being capable of draining the psionic energy of an entire culture to the point of their death can't even breach Arion's psionic defense solely because of his will alone. The "strength of Arion's mind is even what woke him. Plus the race that the beast absorbed and destroyed had "larger mind's" than Arion. The beast basically destroyed a race of psionics but couldn't get through his psionic defense.
Any skilled telepath can attack the senses as well. You're talking about a skill Jean, Emma, Psylocke, Charles etc have all accomplished I.e. psionic surgery, Emma being the most famous for this.
And they can all be attacked that way.
Jean and powerful TPers like her overcome by mental assaults. Interesting one means of defeating her is electic shock. With Arion on my team to control lightning and T-spheres that can send electic impulses easily, or even Amazingman who has used magnetic powers to control electromagnetics after touching a magnet. Your TPers are no threat.
They first have to overcome two TPErs also. One of whom has feats of resisting a spionic assault on thier level (hell above- when have Jean and Psylocke ever shown the ability to feed on the psionic energies of an entire civilaztion and cause it's demise outside Pheonix levels?? - which would be over the limits for a mid level tourney)
Overcome technological defenses for TP also
Prevent from being stunned my a neural feedback from electrical charge
All with their opposing team knowing every move they will make before it begins. My teams ability to see the potential futures that will occur and be prepared in advance to act and alter tact to compensate is something you have not addressed even once.
Umm I just showed you a scan of Jean overcoming Magneto's defenses already or did you just skim through those scans? Heck Xorna (a furture vs of Jean with the exact same powerset) has even worn Mag's helmet and was still able to utilize her power to high degrees. As far as Apocalypse Jean has overcome his defenses as well on two occasions.
So never is an overstatement. there are still vastly more times that she has failed and that is against two enemies she knows well and is acquainted with their equipment. Against an opponent she's never faced, has no idea can even do that with technology she is very unlikely to achieve those few times. Especially when so much else is working against her. A TPer who can resist her with his will. Electric charges feeding back on them. As well as the astounding advantage of knowing how they will react to it. Teriffic could later his tech attack to compensate for any preparedness on Jeans part to deal with it.
There was still magic before he became a man and that's who my team is fighting. Arion's father still used magic to bring him into the world thus Arion, the man, does NOT predate magic as one of your post claimed.
I never meant that HE predated magic (if that was what I said) but his power. His power is from creation itself, stated in the scans as plain as the nose on my face.
He also has to tap into a magical source and when depowered he has to taap his own life force which is connected to the stars or cosmos.
Why because that's convenient for you?? It's neither shown, stated or implied in the scans I used for his TP. Yes during those eras when he worked magic he required to draw on a source. that required incantations or rituals. Like the ritual of burning the crystal above.
During the depowered era until he learned he he fought only has a warrior. Learning to master the sword and H2H combat.
Disregard the third and third last scans. Third is before depowerment. the third last wasn't the one I could have sworn I clicked on but now triied three times and wont come in correct.He couldn't draw enough power during this era to do more than some small sparks or a bulb of fire.
It was during this training under Lady Chien's master that he actually slowly learned to tap his latent mental abilities. Chien at one point mentioned he was already attuned to his spirit more than most and her master was focused on his mental abilities.
If you getting somewhere from the scans i showed that he is drawing on an outside power to accomplish anything in those depowered scans your completely in error. There literally was nothing to draw. he eventually found his fathers citadel and from it a new link to power (which he again sacrificed later to save Atlantis). He later tricked the weaver into relinking his power to him .
This is due to his prior life as said star and nothing more. You're talking about a life force, something every living thing clearly has.
He literally has none of that left during the period he was depowered and used his psionic abilities. He completely expended every bit of stellar energy within him to end the ice age and severed his link to the cosmos (until it was restored by the weaver.
I'm having trouble loading more scans so the rest is going to just have to be text. In post 19 on this page my first scan shows an example of Arion before he was depowered when his crystal (the source of his power) was low. he is chained in an underground cavern by his brother Garn Danauth. Away from any light source that could restore his gem. He is chained with Oraculum a metal that is immune to magic (and in later years was revealed to also be Nth metal when Arion encountered HM). He was incapable of drawing any energy from within himself or anything else, his energy ALWAYS came from the gem. So again I question how your coming up with him drawing from an outside source since he has never done this.
This was in reference to his telepathic feats but yes he has to casts spells.
ha ha, yet I've provided countless scans of him using psionic power when he neither had the ability, or power to do so and never once made an invocation or performed a ritual. You haven't even picked up on how the word spell (that your hanging on so much) is inconsistent with the other facts in evidence in the scans. Example one, Arion references his spell worming it's way into Superman's mind. Superman who has and hand no resistance to magic yet fights off a magic based mind control. Seems ligit, no (yeah that's what I thought -NO). You claim that the new gods weren't light years away, but they came from the inner planets of a neighboring galaxy and the nearest one is light years away. All of it is clutching at straws. In post 22 we do see an example of his limited spells using ambient energy around him where he uses an incantation to create a minor energy blast (it took him 5 issues of practice to be able to do that much), but not to do the TP part (which was the point of the scans) of probing "with his mind".
Sinister and Genesis specially designed that cage using Jean's DNA to replicate and repel her ALL forms of psionic energy. Fitzroy's mutant ability allows him to absorb all forms of energy to open time portals. On top of that he wears an omnium bio tech suite with particles that was stated to be indestructable and second only to adamantium. So I'm inclined Jean will have the same effect.
Dude AM only has to be ready for a blast coming his way (which courtesy of 9th dimensional advance knowledge he will be) to absorb it into his body and use it as his own power. He already absorbed the DC equivalent of Galactus. Bottom line, if she blasts him he has her power, if he touches her, he has her power. He gained power like Magneto by touching an electron magnet. Any attack any member of your team amkes on a ready AM makes him thier perfect equal. Suddenly I have a TPer equal to your best plus two more.
The T-Spheres can already teleport through dimensions so Nth metal didn't grant this ability. Holt using Nth metal as a battery is not that impressive and it by no means makes him an expert on the metal. The longeviety of the teleportation has more to do with the relationship T-Spheres and Nth metal have with the EM spectrum.
Dude, the T-spheres in that scan were pre 52 which didn't teleport at all. he made a separate teleporter with only a little Nth metal (because he didn't have enough to get the range he needed a power boost from SG). Like everyone else in this tourney I'm using composite feats. Fact Hold pre 52 has a superior knowledge of Nth metal to Carter who has done all the feats you claim need knowledge. he has a greater understanding of it after learning of it's capabilities when used by Ominar Synn and studying it. Your whole arguement that I can't use it as well as carter is null and void because I have someone with superior knowledge to that shown by him when he did those things.
Speaking of which, T-Spheres are nothing but robotic flying mechanism for Mr. T to control. Will has the ability to talk to appliances ran on electrcity which include robots and computers.
T-spheres and Holt's T-mask have a little feature you may have heard of. they are invisible to technology. That would mean anything that links to tech wont see them either. So I don't even see that flying.
Traveling in space is not the same as being hit with billions of volts hotter than the surface of the sun. What proof do you have that Your team could with stand Biosynth's onslaught? Her lightning is capable of hurting 100 tonner and she instantly dropped the temp around classic Rogue making her bones brittle.
That is JUST the protection from heat provided by the few grams of Nth metal that are in hawkman's harness. Each of my team have more. Each of my team additionally have a force field Courtesy of Teriffic. They all each also have a body suit that allowed it's creator to go toe to toe with "100 tonners", tank the mortars from armored tanks, gunfire and building collapsing on them. Plus they can each teleport at will and become intangible at will due to my prep.
Surviving an attack from any of your team won't be difficult at all.
and I'd like to see them try and tank what Starfire can dish out.
Most of my team have tanked greater than in that scan without too much problem. Not to mention that Arion is powered by light. Using a blast that has light is only going to amp the f%^ out of him. AM could absorb it and blast the crap back at your team.
Just face it. Your team relies too much on the defenses and clairvoyance while my team has more than enough raw power and skill to keep your team at bay and get the job done.
WHAT?? Keep me at bay, HOW? no attack you've shown could put anyone down. your TP wont do crap (because we just have too many answers to it). You cant even delay my guys but BD could make time dlow for you so that we BFR our targets before you even know what happened. Or any member of my team could simply teleport to their location and BFR them without even doing that.
None of your illusions will work on my team since they all have counter measures for it.
Your team is lacking in skill and versatility when it comes to telepathy in comparison to my team.
Will can counter your T-Spheres
Jean, Psylocke, Earth Aurameer can destroy your armor together
Your team will have to fight my astral drops before fighting my team, giving them enough time to get the job done.
If they get too close most of your team can be one shotted in a direct confrontation with most of my team members
Having prior knowledge won't stop the inevitable and Hope is going down.
Simple fact is, we can complete our objective seconds into the battle courtesy of teleportation for all team members without ever engaging you.
Beatboks' team wants to kill/capture both of them.
All we have to do is teleport near them while remaining intangible. and then BFR them to a preprared cage in Holt's base in the 9th dimension. Battle started and 10 seconds later I'm gone with objective met. I just thought I drag this along for a while.
We're going ion circles so I'm good to call this for votes if you are.
Use your keyboard!
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