Ummm Technically this would mean that team one can use Ominar Synn as a soldier. Considering he can solo entire teams of guys as powerful a Gladiator or groups like the GLC I really don't see that as fair.
beatboks1's forum posts
@cosmicallyaware1: You and barry are excellent debaters, i wish u both were on a team and did a 2 vs 2 against other people as well.
Of course higor and I would have the slight advantage that we've teamed up a few times now and have a synergy. So if you want to mix it all good.
Shrinking, hiding, seeking, Precog
- I think you've forgotten that I have duplicates. My shrunken self could be near but not actually on one so you would detect the "ripple" and your other senses see what I want. Daimon has spells illusions and can reality manipulate (which of course I can't use here by the rules).
- Daimon possesses the ability to divine what ever information he wants. he has always sensed any danger before it was obvious and with his ability to divine can simply want to know what is coming. It's that simple. I showed a scan of him doing it easily without his trident and it's much easier with it. As such he could know what you would sense and using his powers of magic, illusion etc make it look like all attacks he himself is launching are coming from the full size Duplicate near him.
- You stated repeatedly that Nate can hide form Strange. Sorry but I thought you'd actually provided evidence to support, so if you haven't maybe that's just noise. The fact is I did provide scans that show Daimon can detect things that are hidden from Strange. So your constantly applying Strange and Daimon as a level means nothing as they are clearly on different levels. So if you can prove you can hide from Strange or others at his level, that doesn't prove you can hide from Hellstrom. That is my point.
- How I came up with the shrinking gauge is very simple. he has shrunk a monster that towered over all the NY skyline. Assuming the tallest building is 400m ( I don't know and couldn't be bothered looking it up) that means he shrunk it to 1/13333 (the monster was only 3 cm tall based on scale) That would mean a 182cm man is less than a micrometer. And the monster was taller by quite the measure. It's irrelevant with so many other ways to hide or disguise my "ripple"
- I think your forgetting that in the scan i posted that you cropped out the panel from that TK failed to do anything
- Just because you control Daimon's mind doesn't mean you can control the Darksoul. It requires Daimon's concerted effort and experience doing so to do it. EVERY single instance of anyone trying to do so has been their compete undoing. The canon of the character says it's a losing proposition for you.
- Beings more used to controlling evil spirits and demons failed yet Nate with no experience is going to succeed??
- Phoenix level this, phoenix level that. You are aware that there are many levels of the phoenix and many of them would NOT defeat/match Mephisto or Dormammu right??
- The TK user there has an advantage that Nate lacks when it comes to opposing an etheral form of attack. He is a purely etherial form (see scan under heading). I asked you for proof that Nate's TK could move etherial energy ( a soul based energy that defies physical nature). Saying that a TKer who is completely etherial in nature could (when in fact they couldn't when you take the context of the full page scan you cropped the panel from) doesn't prove your case. It re-enforces mine. Mind stars wall was an "astral wall" not TK. In a sense a wall made from the very same type of energy as hell/soul fire. IT FAILED to protect him.
Once again you crop out a couple of panels to try and change the context. This isn't Daimon reacting to some thug and out moving them. The panel before in the scan clearly shows the thug already had a bead on Damon AND had decided to shoot and sent that message to his finger. impulses travel on nerves at 200mph (0.44 meters per second). An impulse moving from the brain to a finger less than a meter away travels maybe .3 of a meter. It was half way there when Daimon reacted AND the trident had to travel the distance between them (which looked at least 40 feet). So daimon's trident had to cover 40 feet in less than 0.68 seconds AFTER he moved to put it in motion.
It's not hyperbole at all, the feat supports the statement because it makes it around a nanosecond feat. You don't have a speed advantage.
Hell Daimon has time manipulation power. he once turned the middle of the night into Noon while fighting a vampire. That's not allowed in the tourney but even without using it to manipulate time, it does mean he can equal any speed since he can make his own perception of time different.
Hellstrom can heal from anything with a subconscious thought. he has even brought the dead back to life with as little
He has vastly more avenues of attack than Nate with magic, energy manip, hell fire, Dimensional manipulation (not banned by rules), Shape Shifting, soul attacks, vastly superior physicals and durability.
- No defense to Hell/soul fire. Energy manipulation of it you have conceded won't work and TK is shown not to work even by those with TK more on the frequency of the energy itself. An Attack I might add that has destroyed immortal beings
- TP attacks will only serve to unleash a more powerful and dangerous opponent on you. Canon instances of anyone ever trying to TP or mentally assault Daimon have shown it unleashes his darksoul and there is no answer for that
- You have no speed advantage so your claims of blitzing simply don't fly. No feat you've shown is above nanosecond and when you quantify the actual evidence of the speed feat I used for Daimon it is.
- You have presented no attack that would even pierce Daimon's shields. They have contained nigh omnipotent beings and beings with reality warping powers yet we're to believe they will fall to someone with some vaguely referenced "phoenix" level power like the level of the phoenix is in any way consistent.
- You've constantly referenced Nate able to deceive even Dr Strange as though that means something even though I have shown that Daimon can sense things even when they are hidden from Strange and yet you concede you haven't offered evidence of said.
Interesting line ups. While all four on team one are below the big guns of team two I see hector hall as a weak link that evens it nicely. While there is plenty of instances during his Run as Fate alluding to his power in practice his showings are a little wanting. He always comes to a win after getting outside help. To defeat Mordru he got advice from Nabu, and Kent inside the amulet. He even went to Mordru for advice once or twice.
Soul Gem Adam has beaten Mephisto in his own realm which is telling because a blood lusted Alan who was doing very well in Hell during underworld unleashed lost once Neron came into the battle. Based on feats Neron isn't IMO at Mephisto's level and if Alan can't pull a win when he's fervently fighting to free his wife's soul I doubt he's taking down Warlock.
Shadowlands Obsidian Soloed the JSA and possessed them to use against each other. That of course wont work on Ultron or Thanos (at least i doubt it). It will work on Hector Fate (because it already has ) but of course Starheart Alan also did that to fate and to Obsidian (though interestingly later when Eclipso stole the starheart he couldn't, so at best a line ball call and inconsistent).
I'd say Obsidian can take Fate, any of the other three can take Alan in a tough and hard fought fight. I could see Hellstrom or Adam taking Ultron in a hard battle (or maybe just BFR). It would however take at least two of them to take down Thanos in the end and I don't see them finishing the others of fast enough to make it happen, although I do see the team work better between team 1 than team 2. So maybe that could be the telling difference.
I'd say team two but it's certainly no stomp
@ordinaryalan: yeah there is a real Satan and it's Hellstrom's dad.
In defenders (IIRC issue 105) Satan was bringing hell to earth and the other hell lords were there as his lackys and different groups of the defenders fought each separately
Depending on which side you need the more players
Street level - Mark Shaw Manhunter
powerhouse - Alan Scot (pre52)
Street - Justice (marvel New Universe- PRE New Universal because I wouldn't call post street level)
Powerhouse -Daimon Hellstrom
@beatboks1: Nice scans. In the second set, where he takes on Hell, do you know which Hell-lord was in charge at that time? And also who are the golden looking beings with blue eyes in the latter scans? Angels?
The hell lord he faced was his father Satan. Not that it really matters much, regardless of which continuity you take ( current or classic) all hell lords are equal. They are either because they are the one and same entity
In the Classic Mephisto, Satannish and Dormammu etc are all simply "other faces of Satan".
In the more contemporary (like in his 2007 mini) it's stated that various hell realms exist side by side bordering on each other. It's also stated that all are equal and keep each other in balance. The reason why Satan is trying to aid the wife of Osiris to raise him is to upset that Balance by putting another long gone hell lords in the mix and hoping to take the realms of those who fall. Of Course his son really F#$ that up for him.
@heraldofganthet: the scan of Alan is from All Stat squadron 20. In issue 19 Brainwave Snr had soloed the current JSA (Alan at the time wasn't a member) AND the core group of All Stars and had all near deaths door. Alan entered the fray and in BW's mental world was facing the entire might of the Japanese imperial military. He destroyed everyone.
That was only a TP creation but there are several other instances where Alan has suffered guilt over the harm he has caused others. Several of his very first opponents were killed by Alan in All American and in all star. In All Star Squadron Annual 2 Alan was wracked by guilt after failing to save a young boy from Wotan ( proclaimed as the retcon need reason for his resigning from the JSA in the 40's - which was of course because DC didn't allow heroes who had their own full issue to be members. The reason Supes and Bats were only honorary and why Jay Garrick and Alan left the team very early). There's also the whole thing behind the secret missions of the JSA toward the end. He has quite a bit a penance stare would work on