Whoa, blast from the past. For me, bad nostalgia.

I heard about this book but from what I'm understanding it sounds a bit underwhelming. Dang

I just finished the ravaged series. While it started badly in my opinion( why the hell does Fairchild always say the same damn thing in her thought monologues about them being kids and control ect. in the first few issues. They also took away all of beastboy's humor. But I think the last few were decent-good. This may just be a result of my expectations being lowered due to all the bad new 52 comics I've read though(the whole Lois reveals supes identity crap is possibly the worst dc thing ever).

The last few. issues have beastboy humor( something which the new 52 is so lacking in) and have actually made me care for the team.

I hope dc does something with the remaining Ravagers, maybe puts some in the teen titans. I really liked ridge and I thought terra(aka dc's Anakin skywalker(watch the old teen titans)) was decent-good. I liked rose and war made as well. I really hope they do something on those characters.

Quite honestly this is the only comic from the new 52 which got progressively better I've read.

I'm hopeful though after reading some rebirth comics.

@SUNMAN said:

@BatWatch: I'll be honest I haven't read it nor do I know anything about the title except Rose Wilson is in it. And while I like her as a character I'm still not picking up this title

I can't blame you; it has not done much to distinguish itself from the pack, and actually, Rose Wilson is currently a villain who has only appeared in about half the issues.

@colonyofcells said:

I prefer Ravagers just use more characters from Gen 13, Gen 14 and DV8 or maybe relaunch gen 13.

It seems odd to me that they have not done that. I mean, there is clearly a market for the book. Gen 13 had nearly constant production since launch, so why is DC just sitting on the property now? They've spread out the characters here and there which is a fine idea to get them mainstreamed into the universe, but I would think you would still want a series cashing in on the Gen 13 name and delivering that same book. They could fill in some of the slots for otherwise used characters by using other DC and Milestone heroes. It's not like there are a lack of super teens or anything.

I prefer Ravagers just use more characters from Gen 13, Gen 14 and DV8 or maybe relaunch gen 13.

@BatWatch: I'll be honest I haven't read it nor do I know anything about the title except Rose Wilson is in it. And while I like her as a character I'm still not picking up this title

@kid Apollo said:

i think they should make this team the counter point to the Teen Titans, if the Titans are the 'face' of DC teen heroes then have the Ravagers be the team that doesnt get the spotlight. they could be a fringe team with one goal in mind, say keeping kids away from guys like Harvest. it would give them a reason to still be together plus they could feature other young meta-humans randomly throughout the arcs

That seems to be the direction they are going. My only objection to that is that I think Harvest is a really boring villain, but they might be able to fix that with some good character development for him. Regardless, I think any solid direction would be better if they took the time to develop the personality of the team members. It seems the new writer is doing just that, so fingers crossed.

@SUNMAN said:

@BatWatch: only 3 reasons?

(chuckles) Have you checked it out? It's actually not as bad as you might assume if you only read The Culling.

@BatWatch: only 3 reasons?

i think they should make this team the counter point to the Teen Titans, if the Titans are the 'face' of DC teen heroes then have the Ravagers be the team that doesnt get the spotlight. they could be a fringe team with one goal in mind, say keeping kids away from guys like Harvest. it would give them a reason to still be together plus they could feature other young meta-humans randomly throughout the arcs

@Sharkbite said:

I never followed Gen13, so I can't really say about that for sure, but looking over the somewhat freakish roster and with the addition of Niles Calder, I wonder if the series would sell better if folded in to become a new incarnation of the Doom Patrol.

Given the success of Avengers Academy (which I chalk more to the brilliant writing), a similar pitch of "young people with great potential to become villains, being trained up in the hopes that they can be turned away from that path" could pick up a few readers, especially as Marvel seems determined to now kill off the Academy roster.

A story like Ravagers (or Academy or Doom Patrol or Teen Titans or Walking Dead or...) succeeds or fails based on character development. The villain-of-the-week approach that works for the Justice League and the Avengers will not carry these books. Less focus on the cheesy B-lister villains and more focus on the inner team conflict and the personal growth of the characters is the way to cement them into the hearts of the readers. I'm sure there are more people interested in the blossoming Beast Boy & Terra relationship than there are who want to see Harvest pop back up and get punched back down yet again.

I've heard people voice the idea that The Ravagers is kind of the spiritual successor of Doom Patrol. I never really read Doom Patrol, so I don't really have much off which to base an opinion. Still, if DC were intentionally going for that kind of feel, which the inclusion of Caulder and Beast Boy and a group of misfits kind of indicates, it is a little surprising they didn't just call it Doom Patrol.

I too think The Ravagers has potential, but it still doesn't seem to be living up to it. When I wrote this article, the team had just found a direction, and now we have had a whole issue where The Ravagers are working more like superheroes, but sadly, I don't think it was an improvement. Just another okay issue.

I agree completely that the series needs to focus on characters. Those few issues that have spent some time on interpersonal interactions have been by far the strongest. Justice League and Avengers can get by without that, but honestly, even those books are cheating themselves from being truly great when they ignore the characters for action.

I never followed Gen13, so I can't really say about that for sure, but looking over the somewhat freakish roster and with the addition of Niles Calder, I wonder if the series would sell better if folded in to become a new incarnation of the Doom Patrol.

Given the success of Avengers Academy (which I chalk more to the brilliant writing), a similar pitch of "young people with great potential to become villains, being trained up in the hopes that they can be turned away from that path" could pick up a few readers, especially as Marvel seems determined to now kill off the Academy roster.

A story like Ravagers (or Academy or Doom Patrol or Teen Titans or Walking Dead or...) succeeds or fails based on character development. The villain-of-the-week approach that works for the Justice League and the Avengers will not carry these books. Less focus on the cheesy B-lister villains and more focus on the inner team conflict and the personal growth of the characters is the way to cement them into the hearts of the readers. I'm sure there are more people interested in the blossoming Beast Boy & Terra relationship than there are who want to see Harvest pop back up and get punched back down yet again.

@colonyofcells said:

With the New 52 reboots, dc wants to keep Teen Titans as the justice league academy and the generation chosen was the Tim, Cassie and Bart generation and no room left for the generation of Donna and Wally who were in the silver age Teen Titans. Ravagers needs more popular stars to survive which is why I suggested Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, Raven and Rose.

I agree that the lineup you suggest would boost sales, but it seems to me like that may as well be a completely new team.

@The Stegman said:

I agree that Ravagers currently..is kinda pointless, but I'mma keep reading, i have high hopes for the title, and want it to succeed.

I actually really enjoyed the last issue. Like I said, I'm hoping it turns around now that the team has a purpose.

@TheOptimist:

Thanks for all the great thoughts.

1. I see what you are saying about DC stepping up the production schedule, but it seems to me that it would be better to have multiple irons in the fire so that if your crossover does not sell well, you can scrap the planned series that would launch out of it...or do a limited series at that point to test the waters. It just seems silly to launch a series on an unsuccessful crossover.

2. Yeah, I do not particularly think DC was off base for assembling this team without any real power players. Like you said, it took guts. Good for them for trying something semi-experimental. Nonetheless, I have to think that the lack of a star is hurting their sales numbers. I really enjoyed, to my great surprise, the chemistry that Superboy brought to the team next issue. Maybe if The Ravagers retain him, he will be able to bring in the star power while actually improving the quality of the book.

3. Though I did not mention it, I personally would not mind if the team were selfish in their motivations, but issue 2-4 really annoyed me just for their pointlessness. It was very much a villain of the month type of experience with the worst being the return of a major player, Brother Blood, who seemed completely and utterly pointless. It almost feels like the writer was planning something with that mini-arc which got scrapped.

Interesting information about the sales numbers. I'm surprised Deathstroke is not selling better though I know many fans have been disappointed in the creative teams.

Thanks for the info on minis vs. Presents.

I enjoyed your thoughts and hope to hear more of you in the future.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

@Dernman said:

@BatWatch said:

@Dernman: Interesting. Off the top of your head, do you know if books like DC Presents sale better than miniseries on average?

I guess that it might work to introduce new concepts, but it seems like it would be more effective to use the more traditional strategy of introducing characters and team in other books. I guess it would be good to actually see how well the teams sell though.

I'm not really a follower of the mini sales trends so I can't say for sure

The Optimist left a comment right above yours which answered a lot of those questions.

@Dernman: Interesting. Off the top of your head, do you know if books like DC Presents sale better than miniseries on average?

I guess that it might work to introduce new concepts, but it seems like it would be more effective to use the more traditional strategy of introducing characters and team in other books. I guess it would be good to actually see how well the teams sell though.

@BatWatch: To respond to each piece of the puzzle...

1. I would agree that the Culling was not the strongest storyline in comics history, nor in New 52 history. However, to state that The Culling's box office numbers provoked DC into releasing this series in its Second Wave is slightly in error, because the series issue #1 was planned and launched within the same timeframe as the event's release, which at best means that they were billing it off of the potential sales brought in by the crossover. This is, in my opinion, actually a rather marked improvement over the DC of old, who would notice the potential for a release, curiously observe a raving fandom and then release a related mini-series to retest the now cooled field and wonder at why these awed at characters were not matching the numbers they anticipated (see Great Ten, Red Tornado and all of DC's event based aftermath minis pre-new 52). It didn't play out, but at least they're taking some better chances.

2. I would agree that there is no real built in audience for the Ravagers, and that none of the previously existing characters has all that extensive of a fanbase, even considering Fairchild, Beast Boy and Terra (or Rose, whose constant absence continues to astound me considering the given title). However, I once again think there is a little bit of chutzpah to taking that chance... granted, one that didn't work out, but in a world where every 3rd post on major comic sites is a complaint on the plethora of Batman titles, it is nice to see them attempting to develop a new corner, potentially even linking it to the expansion of the Titans franchise. It hasn't panned out all that well, but it is okay for titles to not reach platinum success. Regarding the critique of Fairchild's lack of skin exposure, we've apparently hit a subject where the vocal parties of the fandom are more divided than the houses of Congress (see outrage on Catwoman, Starfire, etc. & outrage on Power Girl's lack of 'window', Fairchild's lack of savage landed costumes, etc). As such, it is a distinct lose/lose situation, somewhat nullifying the claims of it being a poor decision, although perhaps still a contributing factor to the absence of some Gen13 fans. Assuming that vocal fans actually hold to their outlandish cries of title abandonment (of which I clearly do not believe, but am clearly assuming) then they'd be breaking to the same point no matter which decision was made.

3. I would agree rather heartily with this point in the title's execution. In concept, I actually found the idea of the time compelling, but too quickly did the pieces unravel and the basis for their shared identity was rather pointedly lost, as the company's attempt to buoy sales with ghost crossovers with the Teen Titans, Legion Lost and Superboy left the creative element further flummoxed, in my opinion. I don't find it a disappointing read, but neither do I feel like it fills a need where one was previously void... I continue to see potential in the direction of the title, but would express some concern about it attempting to rediscover it's purpose this far into the story progression (from a sales perspective).

Speaking of the sales perspective, I'll point out that I Vampire was not (at least in October) the lowest uncancelled ongoing in the New 52 (there must always be a lowest though, and that pleasure currently belongs to Firestorm). Those uncancelled series performing below Ravagers include: Legion of Super-Heroes, Stormwatch, Batwing, Demon Knights, Deathstroke, Hawkman, DC Universe Presents, I Vampire and Firestorm.

Regarding the sales of DC Universe Presents, this is somewhat dependent on the character (in both the ongoing DCUP and in the references minis). Most of the first wave of minis outpaced the current DCUP sales rate (and the rate current at the time of their publication) including vehicles like Huntress, Legion Secret Origin and the Penguin. DCUP has some shifts depending on characters, for instance with a temporary surge for a Kid Flash-centric one shot, likely to be mirrored with an upcoming one-shot of Arsenal. Presently, the Phantom Lady mini-series and the National Comics one-shot fall a few thousand units shy of the DCUP numbers.

Overall, I'm rather in agreement that the Ravagers is a struggling title right now. I still enjoy it, but was truthfully hoping for it to be a title with a lasting place with a new identity, which I think would be a touch of overstatement at this moment.

I agree that Ravagers currently..is kinda pointless, but I'mma keep reading, i have high hopes for the title, and want it to succeed. 

With the New 52 reboots, dc wants to keep Teen Titans as the justice league academy and the generation chosen was the Tim, Cassie and Bart generation and no room left for the generation of Donna and Wally who were in the silver age Teen Titans. Ravagers needs more popular stars to survive which is why I suggested Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, Raven and Rose.

@Dernman: Interesting. Off the top of your head, do you know if books like DC Presents sale better than miniseries on average?

I guess that it might work to introduce new concepts, but it seems like it would be more effective to use the more traditional strategy of introducing characters and team in other books. I guess it would be good to actually see how well the teams sell though.

@Dernman said:

@BatWatch:

I've never really seen books like DC Presents do very well. Most people do now want a rotating cast of characters with no over arcing story, myself included.

True but that's because you're thinking of it as an ongoing subscription. Think of it more as different mini series under one banner where you can pick it up for a character you like and drop for those you don't. It serves a different purposes then a regular ongoing. That's why I say for what it is.

Yeah, I understand what you mean about it being good for what it is...I'm just not sure if what it is is effective. Have you ever done any research on that? Has there every been a comic of this style which has been a good seller?

@SoA said:

im liking the series . ok maybe just beast boy and the hopes that warblade and rose wilson team up with them , i could care less for caitlin , thunder , or terra.

I'm torn on Rose and Warblade joining the team. They would be very fun additions, but they also make great adversaries. Also, we are just beginning to get to know the current lineup; adding new characters would make it even more difficult to flush out the personalities. I think it would be best for them to remain villains for the time, but I do think the should be semi-regular characters.

I actually like Fairchild, and I am okay with Terra and Thunder, but Thunder keeps saying very odd things...and the skinny dipping scene with his sister still disturbs me.

@colonyofcells said:

For Ravagers, just bring back Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy and Rose. Maybe Cyborg can be a member of both JL and Ravagers. Maybe put Caitlin in a new Gen 13 reboot.

It sounds to me like you are really just talking about adding two more teams. I would love to see the classic Teen Titans reassembled though I am not sure what you would want to call them. Titans? Outsiders? The Gen 13 reboot might be a good idea. It seems kind of odd that they did not start with that idea.

@Dernman said:

@BatWatch:

I've never really seen books like DC Presents do very well. Most people do now want a rotating cast of characters with no over arcing story, myself included.

True but that's because you're thinking of it as an ongoing subscription. Think of it more as different mini series under one banner where you can pick it up for a character you like and drop for those you don't. It serves a different purposes then a regular ongoing. That's why I say for what it is.

Yeah, I understand what you mean about it being good for what it is...I'm just not sure if what it is is effective. Have you ever done any research on that? Has there every been a comic of this style which has been a good seller?

I've never really seen books like DC Presents do very well. Most people do now want a rotating cast of characters with no over arcing story, myself included.

@coolguyr99 said:

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?

I am not sure, but I believe I was looking at September's sales numbers when I wrote this article. Comic Book Resources tracks them, and you can check out September's numbers Here.

@colonyofcells said:

It was really unclear to me what Harvest wanted to do with so many metas so dc needs to reboot Harvest to be more interesting. Tying Harvest to Legion Lost backfired since Legion Lost got cancelled. Have to probably retire the less popular Ravagers members. Everybody needs some purpose. Maybe just retire Ravagers and reboot Gen 13 again. Putting in Superboy is just a band aid that won't work for long if you look at the similar Superboy and the Ravers. Ravagers or Gen 13 has to survive on its own without relying on Teen Titans characters.

For the most part, I agree. I am definitely with you that Harvest is a really bad character. Perhaps worse, he keeps saying how The Ravagers are sooooo important, yet we never get any clue as to why. The writer could be setting himself up for a fall if he does not deliver something on this angle pretty soon.

I am also with you on The Ravagers needing to stand on their own without relying on the popularity of Titan characters, but I actually think Superboy added a lot to the last Ravagers issue, so I am hoping for good things. I talked about this in my latest Ravagers Review if you are interested.

I actually have some high hopes for the series after the last issue. It appears it might be headed in the right direction.

@krspaceT said:

@coolguyr99 said:

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?

I looked it up for my blog about the upcoming waves of the New 52. The bottom six are I' Vampire, DC Universe Presents, Hawkman, Deathstroke, Demon Knights and Batwing. I believe the other two down there might be Dial H and maybe All Star, but its been a while.

I didn't even know there was a DCNU title called All Star. Thanks for the info.

@tomlikesfries said:

@krspaceT said:

@coolguyr99 said:

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?

I looked it up for my blog about the upcoming waves of the New 52. The bottom six are I' Vampire, DC Universe Presents, Hawkman, Deathstroke, Demon Knights and Batwing. I believe the other two down there might be Dial H and maybe All Star, but its been a while.

That's too bad. I, Vampire is amazing.

I've heard good things about I, Vampire; it would be sad if it was cancelled, but I think the DC execs have been cutting it slack since they know it is a quality book.@Dernman said:

I'Vampire while not something I like is a good book. DC Presents is great for what it is. It gives chances to character that wouldn't otherwise get it. Hawkman is improving but has a ways to go. Deathstroke started out good IMO but suffered when you know who took over. Demon Knights is a good book. Batwing was a good book before they tried to boost sales by bringing the other Batfamily into it.

@Dernman said:

I'Vampire while not something I like is a good book. DC Presents is great for what it is. It gives chances to character that wouldn't otherwise get it. Hawkman is improving but has a ways to go. Deathstroke started out good IMO but suffered when you know who took over. Demon Knights is a good book. Batwing was a good book before they tried to boost sales by bringing the other Batfamily into it.

I've never really seen books like DC Presents do very well. Most people do now want a rotating cast of characters with no over arcing story, myself included.

I have not read Demon Knights, but the concept sounds amazing. I hope to read it some day.

Batwing is about to be taken over by Fabian Niciieza who did a really good job with Red Robin. Related Article I am cautiously optimistic that the series will turn around.

@WaveMotionCannon said:

The story was generic, the art was meh. Nothing stood out about the book. I have all 5 issues and I kept hoping for it to get better but....

I wrote this article a few weeks ago, but I was actually impressed by the last issue. It was not amazing, but it was good.

@colonyofcells: @SoA: @colonyofcells:

Thank you for reading and commenting on my article. I regret that I cannot respond specifically to your comments due to running out of time, but I wanted you to know I read them and appreciate your feedback.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

For Ravagers, just bring back Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy and Rose. Maybe Cyborg can be a member of both JL and Ravagers. Maybe put Caitlin in a new Gen 13 reboot.

im liking the series . ok maybe just beast boy and the hopes that warblade and rose wilson team up with them , i could care less for caitlin , thunder , or terra.

DC needs to do better than the 1990s Youngblood, Brigade, Berzerkers, Hellstrike, New Men, Doom's IV if they want Ravagers to survive.

The story was generic, the art was meh. Nothing stood out about the book. I have all 5 issues and I kept hoping for it to get better but....

I'Vampire while not something I like is a good book. 
DC Presents is great for what it is. It gives chances to character that wouldn't otherwise get it. 
Hawkman is improving but has a ways to go. 
Deathstroke started out good IMO but suffered when you know who took over. 
Demon Knights is a good book. 
Batwing was a good book before they tried to boost sales by bringing the other Batfamily into it.

@krspaceT said:

@coolguyr99 said:

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?

I looked it up for my blog about the upcoming waves of the New 52. The bottom six are I' Vampire, DC Universe Presents, Hawkman, Deathstroke, Demon Knights and Batwing. I believe the other two down there might be Dial H and maybe All Star, but its been a while.

That's too bad. I, Vampire is amazing.

@coolguyr99 said:

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?

I looked it up for my blog about the upcoming waves of the New 52. The bottom six are I' Vampire, DC Universe Presents, Hawkman, Deathstroke, Demon Knights and Batwing. I believe the other two down there might be Dial H and maybe All Star, but its been a while.

It was really unclear to me what Harvest wanted to do with so many metas so dc needs to reboot Harvest to be more interesting. Tying Harvest to Legion Lost backfired since Legion Lost got cancelled. Have to probably retire the less popular Ravagers members. Everybody needs some purpose. Maybe just retire Ravagers and reboot Gen 13 again. Putting in Superboy is just a band aid that won't work for long if you look at the similar Superboy and the Ravers. Ravagers or Gen 13 has to survive on its own without relying on Teen Titans characters.

@BatWatch: What are the nine titles selling worse than it?