Four Untraditional Theories on "Death of the Family"

Death of the Typical

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Snyder’s Joker story has been taking the comic world by storm, and everybody is wondering what is going to happen next. The traditional theories hold that some member of the Bat Clan is going to bite the dust, and most of those betting on the forthcoming demise of an ally of the Bat are placing their chips on Alfred talking his final bow.

I would not be surprised if some member of the cast gets offed just because of the media blitz and corresponding sales boost that would no doubt accompany it, but I have to say that I think most of this speculation is off base. Snyder did not call this arc “Death in the Family,” “Death of an Ally,” or “Death of a Friend.” He chose the name “Death of the Family,” and I have faith enough in Snyder’s work to believe that he chose a name which actually fit the story.

If Snyder did choose the story name with care, that begs the question…just how could Joker kill the Bat Family? Even if you killed a patriarch of the family like Alfred or Commissioner Gordon, the family would go on, so what can we expect in the next few issues of Batman?

Considering the amount of people buying Batman each month, I am sure someone somewhere has voiced all these theories, but I have not heard any of them. All these scenarios are based on my own personal musings. I have organized these by starting with the theory I would most like to see come to pass and moving towards those I like less.

Death of a Legacy

What if Joker did not kill the Bat clan directly but rather destroyed the Wayne family legacy?

Joker is claiming to know the identities of Batman and company, but even if he is lying, he still knows exactly where Batman’s crew gets their funding, Bruce Wayne and the Wayne fortune. Batman has always been a character propped up, in part, by his toys, and he has come to rely on them even more than usual more recently. How did Batman defeat the army of talons that attacked the Bat Cave? Did he outsmart them or use crazy ninja skills to beat them? Nope, he jumped in a giant Iron Man type armor and tore them apart piece by piece. I could give a half dozen more examples from the past year alone, but I think you all know that what I say is true.

If Joker could somehow destroy the Wayne fortune, it would send the entire family back into the crime fighting stone age forcing the entire crew to rethink the way they fight crime. No longer would writers have the easy out of adding a piece of previously unheard of tech to defeat a bad guy in the eleventh hour. Bruce Wayne would probably still have some significant money holed away, but if the Bat Family had to get by with a couple million as opposed to untold billions, it would change everything.

Death of Morality

What if Joker killed the family by splitting it into two factions?

We know Joker is planning to hit the family and hit them hard. What if Joker managed to push one member of the family so far that they snapped and crossed the line? What if one of Batman’s children killed the Joker to defend the rest of the family? Batman would have to condemn their action creating a split between the family members that backed the killer and those that opposed him. From that point, it would not take long for a Bat Civil War.

Which of Batman’s children would do such a thing? I cannot see Barbara pulling the trigger. She is probably the most forgiving among the Bat clan. Jason would do it in a heartbeat, but that would not shake the family too much. Tim killed Joker in the DCAU, but that is sort of a different interpretation of the character. Damian already has plenty of blood on his hands, but would one more murder shake the family? Very little. Personally, I would love to see Nightwing do it. Tim and Damian look up to Dick in a big way, and their loyalties would have to be divided if they had to choose sides. Dick would never do such a thing, you say? Remember, Dick allowed Blockbuster to be killed in a similar situation back in the nineties. If backed into a corner where the only way to save the family was to kill Joker, I would not put it past Grayson to pull the trigger.

Death of Integrity

Joker claims to know a secret about Batman which he will no doubt unveil later in the story, but what secret could be so powerful that it would completely unravel the fiber that holds together the Bat Family? How about Batman being a killer?

Hear me out on this one.

I cannot picture Bruce going around secretly killing people now, but I can see it being a dark secret from his early years as Batman. Perhaps when Bruce Wayne returned to Gotham seven years ago, he was not determined to abstain from killing. In the earliest issues of Batman’s appearances in Detective Comics, he is shown dropping criminals off of rooftops to their presumed deaths. What if this was written back into cannon? I can easily see Bruce having killed a villain in a moment of vengeance only to realize the immeasurable suffering he released on the family of the criminal and repent of his actions making a vow never again to take a human life.

If Bruce had been covering up a murder for all these years while insisting on unflinching moral integrity from his protégés, that would shake the family to its core. The Bat Family would be severely strained, and some would likely turn on Bruce. Every member of the Bat clan would have to reevaluate their no kill policy and ask themselves whether they were abiding by it because it was right or because that was how Batman told them to operate. In addition, just think of how ticked Jason would be that Bruce had killed some criminals yet let Joker live.

Death of Denial

Joker claims that his whole motivation for his current series of attacks is because Batman does not really want his family. Batman was stronger when he was alone, and on some level, he wishes his kids were not holding him back. What if Joker was absolutely right?

By the time “Death of the Family” wraps up, Joker will have led a personal attack on every member of the nuclear Bat Family. After all of this concludes and Bruce has felt the emotional weight of fearing for his family every second of the day, what if he decides that Joker, despite his insanity, was right? What if Batman does fight crime better on his own without having to constantly worry about those tugging at his cape? Batman could disband the Family, cut off their access to his systems, and tell everyone else to quit. Would it work? Absolutely not. However, it would require everybody but Batman to change their operations drastically, and DC could tell stories that focused strictly on Batman.

What Do You Expect?

There we have it. Perhaps I am completely wrong, but hopefully you agree that all of these theories are worth considering. I might be doing another “Death of the Family” article before the arc wraps up, but in the meantime, I would like to hear what you think. How do you picture this story ending? What do you expect and what do you want to see?

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Posted by Lvenger

OK now this I like. All of these theories are very worthwhile and would really live up to Snyder's title of Death of the Family. Each of your suggestions would have immeasurable repercussions on the Batman family that would surpass something like the death of Alfred (whose time hasn't come yet.) You've outlined some great theories here!

Posted by dondave

@BatWatch:I like the Death of Integrity theory

Posted by Superdork

I pray for death of Damian like Morrison orginally intended. But from the Teen Titans 18 solicits, it sounds like the Death of Tim.

Posted by Tudoh

Didnt Grayson already kill the joker at the end of The Last Laugh? I like your theories though!

Posted by briangsharon

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Posted by dicksihavestudied

These are cool theories. I, of course, don't want any of them to happen or anyone to die because I dislike change and sad things. I know, so lame, but that's why I don't write comics (well, one of many reasons). I really hope the "death of denial" doesn't happen because I think Bruce needs his family. God, he'd be such a dark, insufferable jerk without them. Although the writers would no doubt tell some awesome just-Batman stories.

I also kind of hope the "death of a legacy" doesn't happen because it would seem a little too The Dark Knight Rises for me.

"Death of morality" is interesting. I think that Damian was hinting that Tim has the capacity to kill in Batman & Robin 10, so Tim could be the killer. However, while I can see Tim killing, I'm not sure I see him doing it for the family. Seems weird, but I think he'd be much more likely to kill to protect his Young Justice/Teen Titans friends. As you mentioned, Dick is the one I most envision killing for the sake of the family. If backed into a corner, he would kill to save any member, even Jason and Damian, and I'm not sure I can imagine another Bat-person doing that. Of course, Dick already beat the Joker to death/near death (he got better!), so maybe that is out because it's been done. Although the "Last Laugh" beating didn't have many repercussions, so it could be done again.

I think I like the "death of integrity" theory best. That would be crazy! It would also potentially be the "easiest" to accomplish. Joker would not die (thereby losing a money-making villain), nor would any of the main characters. And recently DC has been doing a lot with revealing secrets from the past, so it seems like it could happen.

Posted by Superdork

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Posted by batshrine

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Just because they kep hinting that the Teen Titans is going to be changed doesn't mean Tim is going to die. It means Raven is joining the team...

Posted by Superdork

@batshrine said:

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Just because they kep hinting that the Teen Titans is going to be changed doesn't mean Tim is going to die. It means Raven is joining the team...

Official Solicits For Teen Titans Issue 18:

TEEN TITANS #18 Written by SCOTT LOBDELL Art and cover by EDDY BARROWS and EBER FERREIRA 1:25 B&W Variant cover by EDDY BARROWS and EBER FERREIRA On sale MARCH 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for more information. • Unknown to the Teen Titans, Red Robin’s condition is worsening after the events of “DEATH OF THE FAMILY.” And now Red Robin must face an even greater tragedy! • The new Dr. Light is coming for Solstice! • Guest-starring the Suicide Squad!

He probably is going to die slowly of some cancerous Joker chemicals or something.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

I like the idea of Death of Legacy/Integrity combination

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Posted by lordgawain

I like the idea of bat civil war. You could have the robins vs the bats. tim and damien for looking up to dick and jason cos hes jason.

On the the other side you could have bruce, babs and batwing. 3 v 3. I would love to see that.

But now ive just realized about batman inc and all the other batmen. Phew this could be huge!!

If it came to it :)

Posted by The_Tree

@Superdork said:

@batshrine said:

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Just because they kep hinting that the Teen Titans is going to be changed doesn't mean Tim is going to die. It means Raven is joining the team...

Official Solicits For Teen Titans Issue 18:

TEEN TITANS #18 Written by SCOTT LOBDELL Art and cover by EDDY BARROWS and EBER FERREIRA 1:25 B&W Variant cover by EDDY BARROWS and EBER FERREIRA On sale MARCH 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for more information. • Unknown to the Teen Titans, Red Robin’s condition is worsening after the events of “DEATH OF THE FAMILY.” And now Red Robin must face an even greater tragedy! • The new Dr. Light is coming for Solstice! • Guest-starring the Suicide Squad!

He probably is going to die slowly of some cancerous Joker chemicals or something.

I seriously hope they don't kill or "Return of the Joker" him.

Posted by Dracade102

I will be furious if something bad happens to Tim and not Damian... Damian needs to die so bad it's not even funny.

Posted by arnoldoaad

@BatWatch said:

I would not be surprised if some member of the cast gets offed just because of the media blitz and corresponding sales boost that would no doubt accompany it, but I have to say that I think most of this speculation is off base. Snyder did not call this arc “Death in the Family,” “Death of an Ally,” or “Death of a Friend.” He chose the name “Death of the Family,” and I have faith enough in Snyder’s work to believe that he chose a name which actually fit the story.

He call it Death of the Family cause Death In the Family was taken

Posted by arnoldoaad

ok,I finish reading it and I think none of them are likely to happen at all

One thing to consider is that Death of the Family takes place before Batman Inc according to some interviews, Scott Lodbell said that the whole fallout of Dotf is what lets Jason to be Wingman in INC

so that pretty much eliminates the lost of money and the whole civil war

as to the other 2, death of integrity makes absolutely no sense with a character like Batman, it could happen but i dont think it will, and death of denial, im really not sure how it would work exactly, specially cause it completely contradicts the entire premise of Batman Inc, the whole "Batman was never alone" approach, I think fans would just uprise on the sole premise that one writer is stepping over the work of the other one

As to what I think will happen?

Im still not sure, so far everything seems to indicate the possible death of Alfred, but it just could be a red herring

Edited by Superdork

Morrison's Batman Inc is not in continuity anymore. I mean his Stephanie Brown is still Batgirl...

Posted by The_Tree

@Superdork said:

Morrison's Batman Inc is not in continuity anymore. I mean his Stephanie Brown is still Batgirl...

Just because it doesn't fit very well doesn't mean it's not in continuity. The first issue even mentions Damian killing Nobody.

Edited by BatWatch

@Lvenger said:

OK now this I like. All of these theories are very worthwhile and would really live up to Snyder's title of Death of the Family. Each of your suggestions would have immeasurable repercussions on the Batman family that would surpass something like the death of Alfred (whose time hasn't come yet.) You've outlined some great theories here!

Thanks, Lvenger.

I agree that Alfred's death has not come. Quite frankly, I feel that it would just take away from the Batman universe rather than add to it.

@dondave said:

@BatWatch:I like the Death of Integrity theory

Glad to hear it. (sigh) Sadly though, I cannot see DC ever letting their anti-killing poster child ever get his hands dirty. I suspect that if they did go in that direction, it would turn out that the guy he "killed" somehow survived, and he would come back to seek revenge on Batman within a year or two. Still, I would love to see the family fallout on that one.

@Superdork said:

I pray for death of Damian like Morrison orginally intended. But from the Teen Titans 18 solicits, it sounds like the Death of Tim.

What do the solicits say? I know Lobdell said that "Death of the Family will have a huge effect on Teen Titans after the story arc.

I actually like Damian. When did Morrison intend to kill him?

@Tudoh said:

Didnt Grayson already kill the joker at the end of The Last Laugh? I like your theories though!

Thanks! Not as far as I know, and I am pretty sure I would have heard about that one, but I have not read but bits and pieces of that arc, so I cannot say for sure.

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

I HATE what Lobdell has done to Tim Drake. He was/is my favorite character of all time pre-Flashpoint, but if he continues to be taken in his current direction, I would rather have him dead than abused.

@dicksihavestudied:

I really do not want to see Death of Denial because Bruce has been a bit too jerk in recent...decades. DC was trying to fix that with in the DCNU, but they could have change their minds.

I seem to be the only one who wants to see Death of a Legacy. I guess everybody else is cool with Bruce's toys, but it has become an annoyance to me.

Tim's motivations have been almost completely selfish in the DCNU. I'm not sure I can see him taking the chance of losing Bruce's backing by killing Joker. I can see Tim getting killed or crippled though.

What I love about the Death of Integrity theory is that it would cause the rest of the team to rethink all their actions. That would be fun.

@batshrine: @Jonny_Anonymous: @The_Tree: @lordgawain: @Dracade102: @arnoldoaad:

I wanted to let you all know that I appreciate you guys reading my article and sharing your thoughts. I'm a bit swamped with comments at the moment, so I probably will not be able to respond personally to all of you, but again, I appreciate it, and I will make sure to read everything you guys said.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@BatWatch said:

@Lvenger said:

OK now this I like. All of these theories are very worthwhile and would really live up to Snyder's title of Death of the Family. Each of your suggestions would have immeasurable repercussions on the Batman family that would surpass something like the death of Alfred (whose time hasn't come yet.) You've outlined some great theories here!

Thanks, Lvenger.

I agree that Alfred's death has not come. Quite frankly, I feel that it would just take away from the Batman universe rather than add to it.

@dondave said:

@BatWatch:I like the Death of Integrity theory

Glad to hear it. (sigh) Sadly though, I cannot see DC ever letting their anti-killing poster child ever get his hands dirty. I suspect that if they did go in that direction, it would turn out that the guy he "killed" somehow survived, and he would come back to seek revenge on Batman within a year or two. Still, I would love to see the family fallout on that one.

@Superdork said:

I pray for death of Damian like Morrison orginally intended. But from the Teen Titans 18 solicits, it sounds like the Death of Tim.

What do the solicits say? I know Lobdell said that "Death of the Family will have a huge effect on Teen Titans after the story arc.

I actually like Damian. When did Morrison intend to kill him?

@Tudoh said:

Didnt Grayson already kill the joker at the end of The Last Laugh? I like your theories though!

Thanks! Not as far as I know, and I am pretty sure I would have heard about that one, but I have not read but bits and pieces of that arc, so I cannot say for sure.

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

I HATE what Lobdell has done to Tim Drake. He was/is my favorite character of all time pre-Flashpoint, but if he continues to be taken in his current direction, I would rather have him dead than abused.

@dicksihavestudied:

I really do not want to see Death of Denial because Bruce has been a bit too jerk in recent...decades. DC was trying to fix that with in the DCNU, but they could have change their minds.

I seem to be the only one who wants to see Death of a Legacy. I guess everybody else is cool with Bruce's toys, but it has become an annoyance to me.

Tim's motivations have been almost completely selfish in the DCNU. I'm not sure I can see him taking the chance of losing Bruce's backing by killing Joker. I can see Tim getting killed or crippled though.

What I love about the Death of Integrity theory is that it would cause the rest of the team to rethink all their actions. That would be fun.

@batshrine: @Jonny_Anonymous: @The_Tree: @lordgawain: @Dracade102: @arnoldoaad:

I wanted to let you all know that I appreciate you guys reading my article and sharing your thoughts. I'm a bit swamped with comments at the moment, so I probably will not be able to respond personally to all of you, but again, I appreciate it, and I will make sure to read everything you guys said.

I'm pretty sure it's a forgone conclusion that Alfred will bite the dust in this cross over, I think it's Snyder's intention to replace him with that female hacker (forget the name) he recently introduced

Online
Posted by OutlawRenegade

@Jonny_Anonymous: Harper Row

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@OutlawRenegade: Ah yea that's the one

Online
Posted by Lvenger

You think Harper Row will be the new Alfred? I know Snyder has focused a lot of attention on her but replacing Alfred is a bit much. Still it fits with Batman losing his humanity in issue 18.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous
@Lvenger

You think Harper Row will be the new Alfred? I know Snyder has focused a lot of attention on her but replacing Alfred is a bit much. Still it fits with Batman losing his humanity in issue 18.

Maybe, he did say she was gonna play a huge part in the bat mythos and with her particulars talents she would be suited for the roll
Online
Posted by InnerVenom123

@Superdork said:

Morrison's Batman Inc is not in continuity anymore. I mean his Stephanie Brown is still Batgirl...

You're basing that off of "LEVIATHAN STRIKES", which has a caption where the credited title is in the book that reads "THIS TAKES PLACE BEFORE FLASHPOINT AND THE NEW 52."

So no. She's not still Batgirl now. Batman Inc is canon.

It's just that it's this sort of abnormal-canon where things from New Earth are referenced and no one cares because the story is awesome.

Edited by BatWatch

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

It would be very odd for DC to kill off a major character slowly. I'm not sure I could see that happening. I could definitely see them giving him a disability, but slow death? I don't know.

Personally, I like all the Robins. The more the merrier as long as they are well written. If I'm forced to choose between Damian and Lobdell's Tim though, I'd go with killing off the illegitimate version of Tim that the DCNU has bastardized.

@batshrine said:

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Just because they kep hinting that the Teen Titans is going to be changed doesn't mean Tim is going to die. It means Raven is joining the team...

I've been hearing that Raven will be joining the team, but I don't know where these rumors originate. Why do you think Raven is on her way?

@Superdork:

Interesting about the solicit for Teen Titans. Clearly, he will survive at least temporarily. It's just a question of whether he will recover.

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

I like the idea of Death of Legacy/Integrity combination

Finally! Someone else who shares my dislike of all the Bat trinkets.

@The_Tree:

That would be quite the lousy end for such a noble hero. I would hate to see that as well. It did make for one very creepy scene in Death of the Joker though.

@Dracade102 said:

I will be furious if something bad happens to Tim and not Damian... Damian needs to die so bad it's not even funny.

What is it about Damian that annoys you so much? I know he is a brat, but personally, I like the tension he brings to the family.

@arnoldoaad:

Fair enough on the name being taken, but he could have named it something more similar. "Death of a Child" or some such. Regardless, if Snyder is picking names which do not fit the story, he's being kind of sloppy.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

Posted by batshrine

@BatWatch said:

@batshrine said:

@Superdork said:

@briangsharon said:

Somethings happening with Tim Drake..

:(

Yeah, making Tim no longer a real Robin and then killing him off slowly with something Joker does is DC's way of simplifying their Bat franchise. I would have kept Tim and gotten rid of Damian. Tim is more likable and he has held several titles over two decades. Damian is not likable and has not carried any titles. And Morrison wanted to kill him off anyway...

Just because they kep hinting that the Teen Titans is going to be changed doesn't mean Tim is going to die. It means Raven is joining the team...

I've been hearing that Raven will be joining the team, but I don't know where these rumors originate. Why do you think Raven is on her way?

The solicits for it show Raven in the cover behind Red Robin and Lobdell has been saying for a while that she will be joining the team.

Posted by TheCannon

I'm praying this results in the Death of Damian. I LOVE all the theories listed, and I think any of them could actually happen.

Posted by slopoke89

Interesting perspectives on how this will all fall out. I like the idea of a civil war within the family, it looks like it could go that way. I think that it may not be that someone kills Joker, but instead is divided on how to deal with him. One side taking the historic Batman approach with no death, while the other fighting for capital punishment. Maybe even throw a wrench in the whole thing by making Batman the one to realize the only way to deal with him now is to kill him and have Nightwing be the one against killing him.

The involvement of Alfred and Batgirl's mother could play into that, especially if one of them dies. Could that push Barbra into wanting to kill the Joker? Any way this goes, I'm going to be reading it.

Posted by slopoke36

Is it possible to Kill the Joker and write in a replacement? Maybe a "Nightwing" but for the Joker...

I want to see Barbra flip the script on him. Lord knows he deserves it.

Posted by Th3DarkKn1ght24

Wow all of your theories are possibilities in my eyes.. I'm fairly new to comics so I don't think that indepth into major arcs yet and just read them as they go but when this story arc begin I predicted Alfred and Gordon to get killed.. I kind of like the idea of the Joker revealing Batman to have killed before, I think that would create massive problems... I guess there is only one thing we can do and that is to wait and see what happens... I can't wait until Wednesday to see what happens next :)

Edited by BatWatch

@arnoldoaad said:

ok,I finish reading it and I think none of them are likely to happen at all

One thing to consider is that Death of the Family takes place before Batman Inc according to some interviews, Scott Lodbell said that the whole fallout of Dotf is what lets Jason to be Wingman in INC

so that pretty much eliminates the lost of money and the whole civil war

as to the other 2, death of integrity makes absolutely no sense with a character like Batman, it could happen but i dont think it will, and death of denial, im really not sure how it would work exactly, specially cause it completely contradicts the entire premise of Batman Inc, the whole "Batman was never alone" approach, I think fans would just uprise on the sole premise that one writer is stepping over the work of the other one

As to what I think will happen?

Im still not sure, so far everything seems to indicate the possible death of Alfred, but it just could be a red herring

Very interesting about Death of the Family causing Wingman. I did not realize that Batman Inc. comes after DOTF. If so, that changes a lot of things. We could just do a head count on who has been seen to get a lot of answers as to how Death of the Family turns out. We know Dick is present and accounted for...as are Jason and Damian. I do not recall seeing Tim.or Barbara in Batman Inc. Are you sure Inc. takes place after DOTF. Do you have any links? You are right that is eliminates the possibility to the civil war or loss of money. It also would keep Batman from leaving his associates, and it would not really track with death of integrity either. If you are right about the timeline, that pretty much wipes all my theories out.

I'm hoping it will not be Alfred who bites the big one. He adds a lot to the universe, and it would be so predictable.

@Jonny_Anonymous:

Yeah, I fear you might be right. I'm interested in Harper Row as a character, and she could certainly help Bruce out around the cave, but Alfred has so many skills the nobody could easily replace not to mention all his emotional importance.

@batshrine:

Hmmm. I've got nothing against Raven, but I do not really want any new members of the team. I fell like I am just beginning to get to know the characters presently on the team. One more member will just make it more difficult to get to know the current characters.

I could not find the image you spoke of. Do you have a link?

@TheCannon said:

I'm praying this results in the Death of Damian. I LOVE all the theories listed, and I think any of them could actually happen.

Thanks, Cannon. I tweeted the article to Snyder, and he liked it too, so you are in good company. (grins)

@slopoke89 said:

Interesting perspectives on how this will all fall out. I like the idea of a civil war within the family, it looks like it could go that way. I think that it may not be that someone kills Joker, but instead is divided on how to deal with him. One side taking the historic Batman approach with no death, while the other fighting for capital punishment. Maybe even throw a wrench in the whole thing by making Batman the one to realize the only way to deal with him now is to kill him and have Nightwing be the one against killing him.

The involvement of Alfred and Batgirl's mother could play into that, especially if one of them dies. Could that push Barbra into wanting to kill the Joker? Any way this goes, I'm going to be reading it.

Interesting ideas. I had not considered Batman getting to the breaking point over this. I cannot see DC allowing Batman to be a killer in the present though. I am not even sure they would allow him to be a killer in the past though I think they might buy in to that one.

The idea of Barbara being ready to kill Joker because of the death of her mother is intriguing. I like that idea. However, it would be really annoying if they reintroduced Barbara's mother into the story just to kill her a year later. I hate that kind of crap.@slopoke36 said:

Is it possible to Kill the Joker and write in a replacement? Maybe a "Nightwing" but for the Joker...

I want to see Barbra flip the script on him. Lord knows he deserves it.

I don't follow the first part. Sorry.

The second part is very true. Commissioner Gordon shot out Joker's kneecaps at the end of No Man's Land. It was very satisfying.

@Th3DarkKn1ght24 said:

Wow all of your theories are possibilities in my eyes.. I'm fairly new to comics so I don't think that indepth into major arcs yet and just read them as they go but when this story arc begin I predicted Alfred and Gordon to get killed.. I kind of like the idea of the Joker revealing Batman to have killed before, I think that would create massive problems... I guess there is only one thing we can do and that is to wait and see what happens... I can't wait until Wednesday to see what happens next :)

I'm glad you liked the article. I cannot see Gordon getting killed. That idea was somewhat explored in Officer Down about ten years ago, and his death would basically be a repeat of that. In addition, there is nobody set up to really replace him.

I'm just hoping it will not be Alfred because it looks like it will be Alfred. Snyder seems to like the unexpected, and I would be a bit disappointed if he made the guy who looked like he was going to die...the guy who died.

Oooh, how about Alfred killed Bruce's parents. That would be pretty stupid but massively shocking, and it would totally "kill the family" on two different levels. Nice...well, no it is kind of stupid actually. Scratch that.

I shouldn't post right before bed. I think my brain is off.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

Edited by batshrine

@BatWatch: Here it is, its from the february solicits

Posted by entropy_aegis

Interesting theories,unfortunately all these have been done to the death(Under the Red Hood,Fugitive,War Games etc).

And the latter 2 did'nt achieve anything in the long run,even though they too were epic,status quo changing events,which resulted in a split with in the Batfamily and Batman being more paranoid and lonesome.

Lazy stunt IMO.

Posted by Mini_Bat

I like all your theories and like to see must of them play out. When I first heard about the event I thought someone might die but the main outcome of the Joker's actions would just break the family and having all the bat kids not want to follow Bruce anymore or have them focus on themselves and their lives and forget the Bat-family all together.

Posted by JamesKM716

@BatWatch: I'd absolutly love to see Death of Morality/Batman Civil War, but (minus the last theory) what if all of your thoeries were correct? A Bat-Civil War without resources and based off Dick/Bruce's murders?

awesome.

Posted by JasonTodd13

I rather Damian gets killed in Death of the Family, he doesnt deserve to be a part of the dc universe, to be a part of the batman family, to be bruces son and most of all he doesnt deserve to be robin, i expected better of dc comics as they created this crap character, i have my fingers crossed for damians death.

Posted by BatWatch

@Mini_Bat said:

I like all your theories and like to see must of them play out. When I first heard about the event I thought someone might die but the main outcome of the Joker's actions would just break the family and having all the bat kids not want to follow Bruce anymore or have them focus on themselves and their lives and forget the Bat-family all together.

I'm kind of expecting Damian to possibly die now. I'm not betting on it or anything, but there is some evidence to suggest it.

However, I still would not be surprised either way, whether there be a death of not. @JamesKM716 said:

@BatWatch: I'd absolutly love to see Death of Morality/Batman Civil War, but (minus the last theory) what if all of your thoeries were correct? A Bat-Civil War without resources and based off Dick/Bruce's murders?

awesome.

That I had not considered. Hmmm. It seems like it would be too much going on at once in my view.

Glad you liked the article though.

@JasonTodd13 said:

I rather Damian gets killed in Death of the Family, he doesnt deserve to be a part of the dc universe, to be a part of the batman family, to be bruces son and most of all he doesnt deserve to be robin, i expected better of dc comics as they created this crap character, i have my fingers crossed for damians death.

You might just get your wish. However, I like Damian a lot. He doesn't deserve to be Bruce's son, but that is the nature of most family; you do not get to choose them. He also does not deserve to be Robin, but I think Bruce's desire to foist that role upon him reveals a lot about his failings as a father and his own personal scars. Damian is a well written character even if you do not enjoy him, and I think he will always be a part of the DC universe even after his possible death.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

Posted by JasonTodd13

@BatWatch: its unfortunate that damian is a part of the dc universe, he has no interesting stories and is nothing but a bratty child.

Posted by BatWatch

@JasonTodd13 said:

@BatWatch: its unfortunate that damian is a part of the dc universe, he has no interesting stories and is nothing but a bratty child.

I enjoy him, but to each their own.

Posted by JasonTodd13

@BatWatch: true, but i dont see how anyone could see hes a good character especially since hes a murderer.

Posted by The Poet

Interesting ideas...

Moderator
Posted by BatWatch

@JasonTodd13 said:

@BatWatch: true, but i dont see how anyone could see hes a good character especially since hes a murderer.

Joker kills people, but he is a good character. He is not morally good, but he is good in an interesting way.

@The Poet said:

Interesting ideas...

Thanks Poet. I've seen you around a lot, but I don't think we've ever conversed very much.

If you are interested in Batgirl, I just put an article you might enjoy about ways her title could improve on my ComicVine blog and the commentary section of BatWatch. Hope to here more from you.

Posted by JasonTodd13

@BatWatch: yeah but im talking about heroes, heroes are not suppose to cross the line by murdering people, it has happened but still its wrong to cross the line. Damian is more of a villain than a hero.

Posted by BatWatch

@JasonTodd13 said:

@BatWatch: yeah but im talking about heroes, heroes are not suppose to cross the line by murdering people, it has happened but still its wrong to cross the line. Damian is more of a villain than a hero.

Generally speaking, it is considered unheroic to kill, but killing does not make him less interesting. I don't have to like a hero to enjoy seeing him interact with others.

Posted by JasonTodd13

@BatWatch: damian is a villain in my book, killing makes him a bad guy, hes unworthy of being a hero.

Posted by BatWatch

Okay. Personally, I'm fine with killing those who hurt innocents, but to each their own. Either way though, he is still interesting.

Posted by dondave

@JasonTodd13: a quick question, your obviously a fan of Jason Todd, as seen in your username and account picture, he does just as much killing as Damien, so why is he different to you

Posted by JasonTodd13

@dondave: Jason is an antihero, he kills scum for the point of getting rid of criminals. Damian however kills because he enjoys it, hes a monster that enjoys the bloodlust hes even willing to kill innocent people.

Posted by BatWatch

@dondave said:

@JasonTodd13: a quick question, your obviously a fan of Jason Todd, as seen in your username and account picture, he does just as much killing as Damien, so why is he different to you

Excellent question.

@JasonTodd13 said:

@dondave: Jason is an antihero, he kills scum for the point of getting rid of criminals. Damian however kills because he enjoys it, hes a monster that enjoys the bloodlust hes even willing to kill innocent people.

To my knowledge, Damian has never killed an innocent person. Since he has been taught that killing is wrong, when has he ever even tried?

Posted by dondave

@BatWatch: Thanks

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