The First Year of the Relaunch, The Worst 10 Comics

Top 10 WORST Comic of the Relaunch

Its been a year since DC relaunched its universe, and personally I think most of it has been good but not all, there are many rotten apples in this basket.

Here I have made a list of what I think are the worst titles of DC 12 issues into the relaunch(though not all have 12).

Just 3 things before I start, if you want to comment or maybe even share your own lists you I encourage you to do it but for the record I consider this 3 things

1- I honestly tried to be as objective as possible with this list, I go on detail of what I think is failing on this titles but this ultimately MY OPINION, if you don’t agree, is your opinion

2- If I didn’t read, it is not on the list, and I read a lot this year.

3- Miniseries and events count

But First the Dishonorable mentions that for one reason or another couldn’t make it on the list

*Detective Comics #5-12 by Tony Daniels

*Superman by George Perez

*Savage Hawkman by Tony Daniels

*Deathstroke by Rob Liefeld

Now the List

10- Batman: The Dark Knight #1-8 by David Finch and Paul Jenkins

What is it?

Issues 1-8 tell the story of Batman pursuing a criminal named White Rabbit, who keeps appearing in crime scenes and is suspect of giving several villains of Gotham City access to a Venom component which gives them superstrength but ultimately leaves them incapacitated after a while, in the course of the story Batman keeps getting attacked by several of them. And of course never catches the white rabbit.

What’s wrong with it?

This book is pretty much Like Hush, but not very much, the idea was to show how Batman fits in the whole DC universe, presents all his crew, his most known enemies and a new one, David Finch created White Rabbit as an attempt to be another Catwoman, another sexy female villain to lure Batman and I actually thought it was interesting and intriguing but really underdeveloped.

Where it fails is simply on the writing, ITS VERY STUPID, the plot couldn’t be more basic but it always gets more and more complicated and never in a good way, It’s just Batman following WR, then a villain appears, he fights and move to pursue White Rabbit again, it gets repetitive very fast also the underlined story behind White Rabbit is never important, and several side plots are presented and drop or are just to give a fake sense of suspense, for example there is a part in which Flash appears and gets poisoned, then he recovers and appears at the end, this is done only to remove Flash momentarily from the story but he never serves any purpose to begin with, or another example, in issue 4 Deathstroke appears completely out of nowhere and attacks batman in his batplane, while in the air, literally no explanation how he gets there, destroys the batplane with his sword and fights Batman ON MIDAIR and then leaves, for no reason, it looked kind of cool, but there is no sense to it.

Ultimately the book is only meant for the fight scenes and the plot doesn’t get much attention.

However it’s still entertaining and the art is still good because it’s just very silly and stupid, there is a scene in which Alfred prepares and ice cream for Batman and Batman eats Ice cream, and that’s it, is just Batman eating ice cream for 1 page, that’s this arc in a nutshell.

This arc is completely skip-able and it ultimately has a Major Flaw, Its forgettable, this book leaves no mark on DC or Batman’s history, 1 year from now no one will remember this story and I bet that wasn’t the idea.

What could have been done?

Hush it more- Like I said this is a lot like Hush but unlike Hush that story actually left a mark on Batman, it created a compelling villain and serve as a big and insight exploration of what Batman is and how he fits in DCs Universe as well as presenting and interesting mystery (which is kind of easy to solve but it tries)

I know many don’t like Hush but for what it was it was pretty great, it changed status quos in an instant and for a long period of time, it left a mark.

The idea in theory is not bad but it lacks on execution

9- Justice League International By Dan Jurgen

What is it?

5 Years after the creation of team known as the Justice League the members of the UN decide to take this new problem of the metahuman populace on their own hands by assemble a team of various heroes from around the world to protect the world.

On their first mission they encounter a planet killer enemy and defeat it but then the entire team is attack when they expected less and they lose their support with the UN, the team changes and they go after the guy who set the attack

What’s wrong with it?

This is just a disappointment, the big pull of this book is not really the set up or the plot but its characters and this book had a pretty good set of characters, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Ice and Fire, all are interesting heroes with great stories to be told and in addition to those we get some like August General in Iron and Vixen who are just so under-appreciated, so underdeveloped that is just criminal, so the idea of having a team made of heroes who can finally have a place to tell their story it’s just great. The Gigantic problem with JLI is, this character don’t tell their story, they don’t get a chance to shine, they don’t get a good development, and after 1 arc, 6 short issues, we get a completely new set of characters to follow, we lose Ice, Fire, Vixen and Rocket Red in exchange for Batwing and Omac, not to say those characters are bad, far from it, but what was the point of having all those other characters in the first place?

This is book that reeks of editorial mandate, is obvious that DC planned JLI to be a continuation from JL:GL but the relaunch pretty much kill all plans about it, after that Jurgen tell his first arc and just when that was getting done DC decided to take the book to another direction, and then another one, so far this is the only book on DC on this relaunch to had been cancel due some creative changes despite having decent sales.

Ultimately this is a title that failed to launch, whatever premise or concept it originally got in the beginning was scrapped out and then it just wasted whatever advantages it got on every chance

What could have been done?

Consistency- DC needed to define exactly the purpose of this title before releasing the title, why were this characters in this team, to what purpose?, this was a book that needed more time to think about before going to sale

8- The Culling by Scott Lodbell, Tom Defalco, Brett Booth

The Culling is a crossover event composed of Teen Titans, Legion Lost and Superboy, why is it here and not those titles? Well simply because individually those titles aren’t that bad.

Culling is definitely not a reflection of any of those titles, it feels more like an interruption of their stories rather than a continuation, and despite those comics have lots of flaws none of them are bad enough on their own right to be here.

What is it?

The secret Organization of N.O.W.H.E.R.E. captures metahuman teens all over the world, put them on a survival tournament to become killers and be inducted in the group named Ravagers, where only the stronger and vilest serve

Basically this is Teen Superheroes + the Hunger Games

What’s wrong with it?

Personally I do like Teen Titans despite its flaws, and the whole idea of the Culling sounds great on paper but it had basically 1 sole problem that made I fail.

It was too big.

It simply tried to do Way too much that didn’t allow it to focus on giving an actual story, there were too many characters, too many conflicts, too much dialog, too much of everything, that is just a hard time to care of any of them.

The book plans on giving a new status quo to Legion Lost, finally unite Superboy with the Teen Titans, end the N.O.W.H.E.R.E. storyline in that Teen Titans, and at the same time have this survival war of superteens, and ON Top Of That, present a completely new set of characters to Launch the new series of Ravagers, including the villains, this is about 20-25 characters all fighting for our attention and none of them is doing anything to deserve it.

That’s is not even to mention Harvest , who is the ultimate villain of the story, comes out completely underdeveloped and he pretty much comes out of nowhere, he is interesting as a concept and design, but that’s all he is, an idea half cooked.

It is just a story that collapsed under its own weight.

What could have been done?

Time - this story needed time and preparation, Its not a bad idea, It’s a bad execution of an idea, too rush for it to work and too big for such little space, this could had been its own event with a separated miniseries that ties into all the books, the end is not even well constructed with 3 separated climaxes, 1 for ravagers, 1 for TT and 1 for LL, If you compare it to something like the Rot World event on Swamp Thing and Animal Man, that took over a year to build up, this needed more time.

No LL- the Legion didn’t need to be part of this at all, this comes out as the event for the Young Justice line but its appearance is just another center of attention for the storyline, they are barely affected by this event overall.

7- The Fury of the Firestorm by Gail Simone, EVS and Joe Harris

What is the first thing you think, when you think of Firestorm?

Well, he dresses in red and yellow, he has radiation/nuclear powers and his head is on fire

That’s pretty much it.

Well someone at DC was thinking on Firestorm and the very first thing that came to mind was Jack Bauer on 24.

What is it?

Professor Stein creates something called the “Firestorm Protocol” that allows a human being transform itself into a superpowered being with the power of a nuclear bomb, but somehow the thing leaks to a terrorist group and several countries, basically starting a completely new Nuclear Arms race with firestorms.

Before disappearing Professor Stein left a final protocol to his student Jason Rurch, and he and a classmate Ronnie Raymond transform into a new class of firestorm and join a secret organization to fight terrorist firestorms.

What’s wrong with it?

Do I even need to say it? Who thought this was a good idea!?

This series Fails on many things, but first and main of all is Concept, as I explain this It might sound like an interesting political conflict comic with super beings on it of the like a Warren Ellis comic but is just not developed as such, it feels like it wants to be a regular superhero book but the underline theme doesn’t allow it, specially cause we never see politics in action, we never see the sides or the pressure or fear of the country’s administration regarding this issues, there is no politics in what is suppose to be the new WMDs.

This book is also extremely violent; it has some of the most gruesome scenes in the new 52 and for absolutely no reason, in just the first issue a whole family is cruelly tortured and assassinated to do, nothing, it was just to show that the evil guys were evil, later another firestorm who has some kind mental problems is again, tortured and then dies and no one really cares, then an entire stadium is destroyed in a terrorist attack and one of the main characters is explicitly tortured and maim in a full issue, it’s just violent for the sake of being violent.

Another problem is the Terrorists, they suck too much as Villains, they don’t show any motivation during most of the story, have no development whatsoever and almost present no serious threat, they blow up a whole stadium and destroy the Eiffel Tower and yet they are taken out like flies in the comic, even the Al-Qaeda in Frank Miller’s Holy Terror had better motivation than this guys.

And finally the main characters, both are boring and it’s because they show no personality whatsoever, they feel more like clichés than anything else, Jason starts and the nerdy kid with problems in house and Ronnie is the rich and spoiled Jock, Gail Simone does a very poor job at developing them as anything else and once she leaves the comic the next writers don’t even try. This is worst on Ronnie because he eventually cares about this whole terrorist thing and then is captured, tortured and maim which leaves him like more of an antihero from the 90s, It feels more like a propaganda to join the army more than anything else.

The last few issues feel very different from the rest of the book must likely cause it seems DC is dropping the entire idea they started with, but it still a very poor read, lots of senseless violence with a pretty stupid underlined message of U.S. vs Terrorism and very boring one dimensional characters .

What could have been done?

Identity - This book suffers a grave case of an Identity crisis, it didn’t knew what it wanted to be, a political thriller, a superhero book, a teen book, an spy book, it just didnt have a definite direction, of course it doesn’t help that this book passed for several writers, DC wanted to have a Firestorm Book but they just didn’t have any idea of what that was. I haven’t read any of it but I heard that the original Fury of Firestorm book had a much better established political component and that is actually very good, maybe they should have done something more like that.

Brightest Day?- you could say whatever you can of Brightest Day but at least they have a better plot than this, is a real shame that Brian Clevinger lost his pitch, a real miss opportunity

6 –Huntress 1-6 by Paul Levitz and Marcus To

What is it?

Helena Wayne investigates and bust an arms dealer operation but discover that they are also trafficking with human slaves, she goes to Italy and stops them.

What’s wrong with it?

IT’S BORING!

Definitely the most boring comic I have read in the entire year.

Maybe that’s not enough for some to be consider among the worst books of DC relaunch, but you have a plot that can easily resolve in 2, maybe even 1 issue that stretches for 6 full issues, 120 pages, and never gets interesting to keep going on, at the start of every single chp you can’t help to wonder “this is still going on!”

The mini is full with patting, a lot of fight scenes and meaningless conversations with characters that ultimately serve no purpose at all to the plot and are barely even introduce in the first place, I cannot remember the names of anybody here.

There are some good action sequences but nothing great, and the book absolutely Fails at presenting Huntress as an interesting character, She is written completely unbeatable, extremely cocky and arrogant and just not fun, there is no suspense cause of this and its just drags on and on.

It’s hard to describe but every chp feels like you are reading exactly the same thing over and over from beginning to end.

It has pretty good looking art with Marcus To in the pencils but that’s just not enough

What could have been done?

Another Plot- The purpose of the miniseries was to present the new Huntress on the DCnU, we aren’t sure but there is a rumor that this originally going to be E0 Huntress until it was decided to use Helena Wayne, maybe this provoked the plot to drag on but DC also wanted to keep Earth 2 as a secret so Huntress doesn’t reveal that she is Helena Wayne on this story, so basically we don’t get to meet the character at all nor in an honest light, if it instead had focused on the arrival of Helena Wayne from E2 things would had been different

5- Hawk and Dove by Sterling Gates and Rob Liefeld

What is it?

Following out of the events of Brightest Day Hawk and Dove reunite once again to fight crime, in the first arc they fight against the Condor and Swan, antithesis of themselves and save the president of the US and then team up with Batman and Robin and face a hunter that is hunting them cause of some ancient cult to Hawk.

What’s wrong with it?

The art is awful and the story is dull and stupid.

That’s pretty much all It.

It’s just very simple but mediocre on what it does, the first arc Hawk and Dove fight against Condor and Swan, they don’t do anything special, they aren’t particularly interesting either, overall they are just lazy villains.

The art is a huge problem here, none existent backgrounds, weird bodies and without proportion, for example, Damian Wayne, Robin appears on issue 6, Robin is 10 yo and he looks like he is 16 or older, almost as tall as Hawk and just too big.

The most interesting parts of this book is the relationship between Deadman and Dove which carries out of Brightest Day but those are much better developed in JLD, Dove is actually an interesting character not well developed, Hawk on the other hand is very dull, he is just a muscular guy with a chip on his shoulder and also is underdeveloped

I wish I could say more about this book but there isn’t much to, it’s just a very forgettable book, with bad art and a mediocre story.

What could have been done?

This one is hard.

The whole concept of Hawk and Dove is not that interesting, despite being in the Young Justice family of titles, this aren’t portray young, nor try to tap into any of that, the book tries to keep its continuity post the relaunch acknowledging things like the death of the first Dove and the romance of Dove and Deadman, but it doesn’t really tap into that either, we don’t get much into the fact that Hawk died and was revived or how is Hawk connected to the white light of BN and BD, so it just comes out as unnecessary information, I guess that if they really wanted to continue with the story of Brightest day then they should had focus into that, its not a bad idea to use a series to impulse another one but it needed focus and definitely a better creative team

4- Green Arrow by J.T. Krul, Keith Giffen, Dan Jurgen and Ann Nocenti

What is it?

Billionaire Oliver Quinn uses his money to fight crime with a bow and arrows.

What’s wrong with it?

It’s impossible to really talk about new GA without comparing it with the Old one, Oliver Queen is one of the characters that lost the all of its continuity with the relaunch, the old green arrow was mature but flawed, he was human, made mistakes, had experience and personality, after years of development he became something unique, New Green Arrow is anything but that.

The new GA, has a childish personality, no experience, he is basically a young Iron Man, doesn’t work alone but feels like it, he is a Buffoon not and archer, no longer the liberal hero but almost an anarchist who does what he wants cause he has money to support himself, basically is the worst version of the character ever conceived.

Green arrow has always been a character to aboard certain social themes but it never really take sides on them it just informs of how the situation works, the run with Krul starts of tossing all of this ideas of violence on videogames and social network, Jurgen’s run focus more general hero business but when nocenti takes over it all goes back to preaching.

for example Issue #10 focus on a girl who has mechanic implants and think she is a robot, or is a robot who thinks is human, the story is pretty cleaver on what it tries to do the problem is that Green Arrow feels completely out of place on this story, this would had been a pretty good story for iron man but it doesn’t make me think any better of Ollie as a hero, then he tackles the always controversial 99% group and the Occupy movement, it makes some parallelisms to robin hood, but again, what is so special about this? It ends up sacrificing the character for the sake of the message that is sharing.

Overall there is nothing else to say about it, it’s just unoriginal, bland and its very hard to actually care about the main character.

What could have been done?

Back 2 Basics – I think the approach of GA is bad due the concept that is being presented, there is nothing here but some vigilante who uses arrows, that’s all, and Green Arrow is way more than that, we need to see the man behind the bow rather than just an imitation of Bruce Wayne or Iron Man

DC could have perfectly used this chance to tell a story from Oliver Queen to rival with Bruce Wayne on Miller’s Batman Year One, a new origin that relies on the character’s strength.

Brightest Day 2 – during BD a giant star shaped forest appeared completely out of nowhere in the middle of the city, it was a magical place where technology, magic and meta powers didn’t work, healing rivers and ghosts, it wasn’t that good but it was still an interesting concept that I think deserved a take 2 for consideration.

3- Batgirl by Gail Simone and Ardian Siaf

What is it?

After 3 years on a wheelchair the Vigilante Barbara Gordon dons one more time the cowl of Batgirl, fighting villains that are basically reflections of her own insecurities and fears

What’s wrong with it?

I think regressing Barbara Gordon to Batgirl is a very stupid idea, Barb is way more interesting as Oracle and Cass & Steph are just more interesting Batgirls, but because of how this is being executed here is worse than just stupid, it’s offensive.

Just consider the fact that Oracle never really had anything to do with this, and that TKJ never really influenced Barbara in any fashion other than something physical, it didn’t drive her to do what she did just changed the way she do it, what happen to her was a terrible event but that’s all, almost like an accident, she might had been confined to a wheelchair for years but she faced that challenge as she always do and never let it beat her.

And yet what is presented her is a Barbara Gordon that was so Shattered by that event that it paralyzed her own life physically and mentally even beyond the chair, who couldn’t wait a second to put the cowl back and froze to the first gun she sees, she lost all her experience and maturity, physically she is a healthy 21yo woman but mentally she is still 18yo girl in a wheelchair, and going back to the cowl is just a shackle that ties her to that event tighter than the wheelchair ever did, Barbara Gordon is now and forever defined by the Killing Joke and the worst offender, this book is basically giving the message that if you end up in a wheelchair, if you get a disability then your life is over and there is no future for you unless you get fix by a “miracle”, Barbara just never moved on.

And what shocks me the most is that there are many who excuse her pathetic behavior to the fact that “she just came out of a wheelchair”. If she does something bad, it’s because of the wheelchair, if she does something good, is cause is she is moving pass it, how sad it is that everything to blame for is blamed on her being crippled before.

This offends me profoundly.

Personally there is nothing more I can add to that but I will still put this 3 links to go with it.

Oracleis Stronger than Batgirl will ever be

Batgirl the most Repulsive Comic of 2011

Batgirl5-6, Ableism Garbage Day

HOWEVER

I will be fair, objectively speaking what’s so bad on this book?

let’s say Barbara Gordon never existed before this series, just no point of comparison.

What problems does it present?

For starters the Villains, every single villain in this book is new and is made only around Batgirl, that’s generally not a bad thing except when is such a direct relation to a single thread of the character, the mirror was her survival guilt of recovering her legs, Grethel is her anger for the attack on TKJ, Grotesque wasn’t important he was just a faceless villain, but Danny was the embodiment of her insecurity, Talon Mary is made around the fact she hides her own feelings, and finally Knightfall, is just how batgirl would be if she was psycho antihero, it almost feels like this could be Sucker Punch and all is happening on Barb’s head, and actually would had been awesome if played like that.

The problem with the villains is that they aren’t subtle, it’s very obvious what they are and whatever message they try to make is forced and besides the obvious relation with Batgirl there is very little going on with the actual characters, and most of the time present several problems and plotholes.

It’s just so lazy on every case and its really repetitive, without Batgirl this villains essentially can’t exist so none of them make a big impression, and ALL OF Them are VICTIMS

They only exist because Batgirl was a victim once.

And that’s all there is on this comic, irredeemable victims and broken characters who commit murders, terrorist acts, evil deeds or just plain stupid decisions and try to justify themselves only cause their family died or they were hurt or had just a bad day.

This is a book about a woman who is recovering her life from a brutal attack, but for something like that this lacks the element of Barbara Gordon on it, we only get to see Batgirl.

We don’t see Barbara going out, we don’t see her in a job, we don’t see her friends outside her own roommate, or Black Canary who is her teammate, it’s all limited to batgirl, if this is the story of how Barbara Gordon recovers her life, why isn’t she recovering her life?, unless her whole life is defined as batgirl, then there is no point of Barbara being batgirl at all cause there is no Barbara Gordon at all.

Also the book makes a bad job at showing her trauma from the paralysis since we never see her while she was in a wheelchair in a flashback, or while recovering, or before the attack, once again, all is limited to her attack or after it, the book tries to show us how she feels mentally with her inner thoughts and dream sequences but without seeing what she lost and recover, it all just comes bland and poor storytelling. Please show us the reasons why she is feeling distress, not just have a dream where she is in a wheelchair and her previous self is nagging her cause it just comes as a pretentious use of first year psychology.

And Barb has this constant inner monologue on virtually every single scene she is in, and is just unbearable to read, is better to just ignore it completely because you get absolutely nothing useful from it.

To summarize, this book is not funny, is not inspiring and is not interesting however it is very repetitive and depressingly dark and violent without a point to be.

This is just an Insulting and a Sickening poorly written book.

What could have been done?

a-No Barbara - obvious#1.

b-Full 100% Reboot- obvious#2.

c-Batgirl Year 1.5 - why can’t DC have its cake and eat it too? Action Comics is featuring Superman while he is starting his career as a complete rookie, in the meantime we still have the experienced Superman in DCU, so why not have the Batgirl title in the past and Oracle in the present, win-win.

d-NO RETCONS - ok, let’s Say that Batgirl HAD to be Barbara, and that TKJ HAD to be in continuity.

Considering what was lost, the price didn’t need to be this high.

2- Mister Terrific By Eric Wallace and Gianluca Gugliotta

What is it?

After losing his wife in an accident that involved a GPS, Michael Holt tries to kill himself but is stopped by a vision from a son he never had saying to him to keep on living and “educate the World”, with this inspiration he decides to turn himself into a vigilante using his mind and high technology and help everyone in need

During the series, he stops a villain who used his wife’s GPS to kill her, goes to another dimension and save a group of slaves with the help of a transsexual superpowered alien, stops a thief on Valentine’s day, Stops a group of terrorist that want to blow up a city with a ghost ship, and save his enterprise from a half human half machine monster

What’s wrong with it?

It’s Fails on every conceivable level. It is not smart, it is not inspiring and the only entertainment that you can get from it is by laughing at it.

But why is it so bad specifically?

Mainly is the point that Eric Wallace simply couldn’t make a single character compelling or even interesting on this comic, Michael Holt quickly becomes one of the most boring characters I have ever read, every time he does something to show his intelligence he explains in great detail how this faux science works but is not really important to know and it drags on every scene, and it also can become contradictory cause since is science that is completely made up it lacks sense and is impossible to accept and sometimes completely fails at the plot on other places, for example an “Earthquake machine” was created by Michael to be a quake preventer and he explains how it works in both ways, but why would he create something that very easily can be turn into a weapon that causes quakes?

The support cast is basically inexistent, the support rarely appears on the book but when they do, they do nothing important or relevant to the plot or just annoy the hell out of you, like Jamal, he is this young super genius kid that work at Holt Industries and Michael choose him to be his successor, Why? Never explain, he is giving the great total of 6-7 panels on 6 issues before he gets to this promotion, and after that he gets more time on panel but the fact that he is the new CEO contributes nothing to the main story, it’s a complete subplot that goes nowhere because it didn’t had any time to develop at all.

The other 2 members of the supporting cast were Karen, Powergirl relaunched as just a friend of Michael with no given background in the book at all, and Aleeka a completely unlikable character that is supposed to be a romantic interest to Michael but never actually becomes one.

One of the worst scenes in the book is in the first issue where Karen addresses Aleeka’s problems with her, since is obvious that Aleeka is jealous of her, and completely out of the blue Karen asks her “its because Im a white girl, isn’t it?”, If this had been relevant at all and by that I mean If Karen being white was actually a problem to Aleeka and build on from that, maybe it would had been interesting, but did not, Aleeka responds that she is basically jealous of her not cause Karen is white but cause she is rich and that she could never compete with that to get Michael, and this never becomes important ever again in the whole series, Is totally out of place, without any build up to it and with no follow up either, its completely pointless

I particularly love the T-Spheres, the main weapons of Mr Terrific but sadly here they turn into constant Deus Ex Machinas, whatever the difficulty is, the T-spheres fix it with little to no explanation on how they work out, in the worst case of this, Michael uses them to erase the mind of an enemy of his who discovers his identity, ignoring the moral implications of the act, the way he does it is by just using a “forget” wave on him, I think he stole that from MIB.

You can pretty much skip the entire dialog and get a better experience from the book, and that’s not even going on how badly drawn this book is or how dull the story is.

If you want to laugh a lot, get this book and read it with your brain turn off.

What could have been done?

1- Consistent Direction: one of the things that Wallace did with the book was speed up the developments on the stories so they would end faster, he wanted to tell a broad amount of stories to show what Mr Terrific could do, but as a consequence of this it just becomes a book that lacks direction, Is Mr Terrific a hero of the people, a vigilante, a space hero, what exactly?

This hero needs a reason to exist and he doesnt get one, the whole “Educate the World” is quickly forgotten in this comic, the whole dimensional aspect of the book feels completely out of place and becomes highly contrasted with the urban settings that he is in sometimes; it needed to pick just one direction and stick with it.

1 – Static Shock by Scott Mc Daniels and John Rozum

This Comic is a Complete Disaster

What is it?

The Teen Hero name Static move out with his family from Dakota City to New York and…

Fights crime?

That’s all I got.

What’s wrong with it?

This book is virtually unreadable. I really had a problem making coherent summary of the plot cause it just fails to be read.

For those who disagree with this choice as #1, just think this: Green Arrow was a failure of a relaunch for a character and Mr Terrific was completely incompetent on its storytelling, Batgirl is just offensive, BUT AT LEAST YOU COULD READ THEM, you can understand the plot and follow it, such is not possible here.

But we can’t really speak of this book without talking of what went wrong behind the scenes, originally this book was going to be written by John Rozum, and drawn by Scott Mcdaniels, but the idea that Rozum had for the book just wasn’t good with the editor Harvey Richards, in addition to that the editor also forced some storylines into the book, one was that Shannon(Static’s sister) was kidnapped and cloned, without any explanation of how to do this or with any resolution for it, Rozum just couldn’t agree with the direction of the book and left after just roughly plotting 3 issues of a 6 issues arc, and left even before the title launched, instead of actually calling a new writer to fill in for issues 4-6 much less fix the 1-3 issues, he just leave the writing duties to McDanie, Scott McDaniel has never written a comic in his entire life, before this project he NEVER read static in comic form, or even watch the tv show, he was given a lighting course(pun intended) in Static history, he read the milestone bible, read a couple of books on how to write scripts and saw the show while he was drawing this issues. I could go on and on regarding this but it was clear that the book was doom before it even started.

Especially because the only thing that the 3 of them actually agreed on was to keep Static’s continuity intact, this was done to honor Dwayne Mcduffie’s memory who passed away almost a year before the relaunch, however at the same time DC decided to have Static move to New York, with a new suit, new powers, added that to the new plots that came out of nowhere, basically alienating both old fanbase and new readers at the same time, quite an accomplishment.

I will try to interpret the plot.

First Shannon, Static’s sister, is kidnapped and cloned by the main villain, because Shannon is important, somehow, I don’t know why she is important or why clone her was necessary, but Static saves Shannon and her clone but none of them can tell who the real one is and who is the clone, ALL OF THIS HAPPENS OFFPANEL. So the family decides to pretty much adopt the clone(whoever that is) and move to New York. On NY Static is attacked by a random guy who dies in the first issue, then he is attacked by the Power Rangers, and also a piranha man and a joker clone called the Pale man, who is I think an undercover cop, but im not sure why since this is never important at all in the comic, and they are all working for the same guy who kidnapped Shannon and also made sure that Static moved to NY(why?), and they also cloned Static without knowing so, but the Static clone is good and is also working undercover inside the evil guys organization and he sacrifices himself to kill all of them all and save the day, at least I think he dies, the end.

And again, im pretty sure I have some of that wrong somehow, I have no idea what the villain was suppose to gain of all of this or why, all the villains are terrible here, the dialog and pacing is completely dreadful and the art is very bad.

This was without any doubt the biggest Failure of the New 52, I just hope DC learns from this mistake when it addresses another Milestone property.

What could have been done?

FULL REBOOT- one of the biggest opportunities of the New 52 is to have a new chance to relaunch characters to a new beginning, it doesn’t matter if they actually need them or not but if used correctly can make them shine once again.

With Static, there is a lot of continuity to it, but none is necessary, Static can easily start again with those elements that made him work in the beginning and become a flagship for the whole milestone Universe in DC. But this book kills that chance. And is even sadder when you consider that they didn’t started from scratch to pay honor to the work of Dwayne, is funny too cause Dwayne would had had probably agreed to a full reboot.

End of Blog Post

Check out my Personal Blog lets-talk-about-comics.blogspot.com

27 Comments
27 Comments
Posted by Funrush

Wow, amazing post.

Posted by Ravager4

I agree on most except Batgirl... it happens to be my favorite book right now. I can understand the problems created by losing Oracle, but feel that Gail Simone was the correct choice in handling the change, and to me it is a very entertaining book that I highly enjoy.

Posted by stumpy49er

Great post! Curious to see which were your 10 best.

Posted by DoomDoomDoom

@stumpy49er said:

Great post! Curious to see which were your 10 best.

/\ I was thinking that exact same thing. The only one of these I actually read was Mister Terrific. However I did read Savage Hawkman and Deathstroke (up until Liefeld took over the latter).

Posted by x_29

I STRONGLY disagree on Batgirl.

Posted by Ravager4

@x_29 said:

I STRONGLY disagree on Batgirl.

Let's be friends :)

Posted by x_29

@Ravager4 said:

@x_29 said:

I STRONGLY disagree on Batgirl.

Let's be friends :)

:)

Posted by Dark_Vengeance_

Well The dark knight just got better.,,,,

Edited by arnoldoaad

@stumpy49er: @DoomDoomDoom said:

@stumpy49er said:

Great post! Curious to see which were your 10 best.

/\ I was thinking that exact same thing. The only one of these I actually read was Mister Terrific. However I did read Savage Hawkman and Deathstroke (up until Liefeld took over the latter).

@DoomDoomDoom said:

@stumpy49er said:

Great post! Curious to see which were your 10 best.

/\ I was thinking that exact same thing. The only one of these I actually read was Mister Terrific. However I did read Savage Hawkman and Deathstroke (up until Liefeld took over the latter).

the top ten list is over here

www.comicvine.com/dc-comics/57-10/the-first-year-of-the-relaunch-the-best-10-comics/92-692684/

Im new at comicvine i have to confess that the structure of the forum is kind of confusing but i like the idea of having blog posts too

Posted by Suprman

I know I'm late in the game posting this but I disagree with Batgirl and JLI. I really enjoyed JLI and I'm disappointed that it's gone.

Posted by arnoldoaad

@Suprman said:

I know I'm late in the game posting this but I disagree with Batgirl and JLI. I really enjoyed JLI and I'm disappointed that it's gone.

Why?

JLI was really bad compared to something like Justice League: Generation lost, its impossible not to look up to it, and there were characters that got killed off and got rid off to do absolutely nothing and then it ended in the way it did

Like I put it in comments, the big thing about a title like JLI is not the plot but the characters and all the characters were completely wasted and just left them as useless in comparison to the all mighty Batman who was the only one who did anything on it

on the other hand

Batgirl is an abomination, bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and a very offensive message on ppl with disabilities and a mediocre and unrealistic portray of ppl with PTSD

I really dont understand how can some ppl like that

Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER

Hawk and Dove made me angry.

Posted by Shotgun

I STRONGLY agree on Batgirl.

Posted by sinestro_GL

Detective Comics stank hard for me...

Posted by Ravager4

@arnoldoaad said:

Batgirl is an abomination, bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and a very offensive message on ppl with disabilities and a mediocre and unrealistic portray of ppl with PTSD

I really dont understand how can some ppl like that

Because not everyone is of the same opinion or mind as you, and can have different interests or find enjoyment in different things. I'm really sick and tired of people saying "I don't get how someone could like that." Really, you don't get how people can like something you don't? How ignorant can you be? They're called opinions. I know that may come as a shock to you, but it's life. You may think it's a terrible book, but that is only your opinion, nothing more, it doesn't make it a fact. Some people (a lot of people actually, as the sale for Batgirl are very good right now), think it's a great book and are enjoying it, and do not take offense with it as you clearly have.

Posted by Suprman

@arnoldoaad: Well, The main reason I like JLI is because of Booster Gold. I thought he was well written and I liked the overall plot.

Posted by arnoldoaad

@Ravager4 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

Batgirl is an abomination, bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and a very offensive message on ppl with disabilities and a mediocre and unrealistic portray of ppl with PTSD

I really dont understand how can some ppl like that

Because not everyone is of the same opinion or mind as you, and can have different interests or find enjoyment in different things. I'm really sick and tired of people saying "I don't get how someone could like that." Really, you don't get how people can like something you don't? How ignorant can you be? They're called opinions. I know that may come as a shock to you, but it's life. You may think it's a terrible book, but that is only your opinion, nothing more, it doesn't make it a fact. Some people (a lot of people actually, as the sale for Batgirl are very good right now), think it's a great book and are enjoying it, and do not take offense with it as you clearly have.

I guess you are right

some ppl just like bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and just plainly dont care about ppl with disabilities and just simply eat with a spoon the interpretation of PTSD of Simone that makes such ppl want to run through rooftops to proof they are not damaged and broken when they are shown as they are

Posted by arnoldoaad

@Suprman said:

@arnoldoaad: Well, The main reason I like JLI is because of Booster Gold. I thought he was well written and I liked the overall plot.

I also love Booster Gold, is why this book is so underwhelming, he barely did anything on it

as to well written, it wasnt, the first arc was pretty bad then it just jump into a completely different plot

Posted by Ravager4

@arnoldoaad said:

I guess you are right

some ppl just like bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and just plainly dont care about ppl with disabilities and just simply eat with a spoon the interpretation of PTSD of Simone that makes such ppl want to run through rooftops to proof they are not damaged and broken when they are shown as they are

But that's the thing, the dialogue isn't that bad, the plotting isn't terrible (in my own and many other people's opinions. I get you think so, and I'm sure some other people think so, but that doesn't make it a fact by any means) and to say that people who read this book don't care about people with disabilities is a gross generalization and horrible assumption (and what are you even talking about with that bolded line? The people who read this book want to run on rooftops to prove they aren't broken? What?).

Explain to me exactly how PTSD is misrepresented in the book, I'm curious. I am no expert myself, so perhaps you can enlighten me, though I do know that Gail Simone has done research and spent time talking with people who have disabilities, who have gone through PTSD, and people who study those areas, in order to write it as correctly as possible. So, if you believe that she failed so amazingly at it, explain to me how.

Posted by arnoldoaad

@Ravager4 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

I guess you are right

some ppl just like bad dialog, terrible plotting, terrible villains and just plainly dont care about ppl with disabilities and just simply eat with a spoon the interpretation of PTSD of Simone that makes such ppl want to run through rooftops to proof they are not damaged and broken when they are shown as they are

But that's the thing, the dialogue isn't that bad, the plotting isn't terrible (in my own and many other people's opinions. I get you think so, and I'm sure some other people think so, but that doesn't make it a fact by any means) and to say that people who read this book don't care about people with disabilities is a gross generalization and horrible assumption (and what are you even talking about with that bolded line? The people who read this book want to run on rooftops to prove they aren't broken? What?).

Explain to me exactly how PTSD is misrepresented in the book, I'm curious. I am no expert myself, so perhaps you can enlighten me, though I do know that Gail Simone has done research and spent time talking with people who have disabilities, who have gone through PTSD, and people who study those areas, in order to write it as correctly as possible. So, if you believe that she failed so amazingly at it, explain to me how.

...

I already said it

in this blog post

what, did you just see that i put Batgirl in #3 and came here to complain without reading it?

but whatever

this is a thing with 2 separated sides, one is how the book is being written and the other one is what Nu-Batgirl is all about

first the book it self

the dialog isnt bad and the plotting isnt terrible?

Im just not going for every single piece of dialog cause i would be here for days

but overall Barb is being written in the most cliche superhero dialog when she is batgirl, nothing really bad about that, honest

the big problem is the thoughtboxes

OMG! the thought boxes, she just talks and talks and talks and its not how a 21 woman thinks is how a 15 yo immature girl thinks, its the most annoying thing in the entire comic and there is absolutely no useful information, try this, try read the entire comic without the thoughtboxes(and i have done it) and it reads the same story, even better

like in issue 1 when she saves some random guy and thinks "i want to pee so badly now"(im paraphrasing) What? its that suppose to be funny? is not, is not insightful is not well written, I think it tries to be cute but in the context only comes of as pathetic, but i guess thats the point, Gail wants to show us just how Pathetic Batgirl, how unprepared and immature she is

The plotting

first the style is grimdark, its a style that Gail really pulled off in a book like Secret Six but it doesnt work here also

I can grab any issue and just point out an inconsistency, something that just completely fails on the story telling

Like how Mirror became a mass murderer, it doesnt make any sense, he lost his entire family in an accident in which he survived so he kills survivors of accidents in the way that they were suppose to die, but if thats the case, why doesnt he kill himself? even batgirl says that he just wants to die because of his survivor's guilt, something that he has only and only cause thats what barb is facing

get it Mirror, is a REFLECTION of Batgirl, how freaking symbolic and original dont you think?! is just so deep that my mind is still blown away /sarcasm

or Barb Gordon Sr, leaving her entire family without saying nothing cause his little kid threaten her, do i even need to comment, issue 8 is the worst chp in the entire run, it not only doesnt make any goddamn sense but it grabs The Killing Joke and Black Mirror and retcon them for absolutely no reason, having Barb's mom in the book is a great idea but did she really need to do something as stupid as that and then having Danny who is not who phone the police in TKJ, and then not having Jim Gordon in the room when Barb is shot cause in Gails mind TKJ is only about Barb getting shot

or my favorite plothole, why the hell is Batwoman in chp12

Det Mckeena tells Barb that Batwoman is a mole in Batman Inc, that she is dangerous and is coming to kill them, then Batwoman appear and kicks ass and then tells Mckeena that DEO is lookign for her cause she is a corrupt cop (btw, she is), why would DEO send Batwoman after her? Batwoman is dealing with supernatural stuff in her book, thats the point of DEO, why go to Mckeena, but there is more, Mckeena tells her that she is being played(how?) and Batwoman ask how does she know that, cause Mckeena is the one who framed her

...FRAME HER HOW? WHY?

and if she f***ing knew that she wasnt bad cause she was the one who framed her then why the hell did she thought that she was coming to kill them?

IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE

just cause you ignore this, or dont care about it doesnt mean that is not a problem and it doesnt mean that the plotting is good

my second point, the PTSD, or like i love to call it, the second wheelchair

I have seen a lot of ppl saying that Oracle is a boring character but most have never read a BoP comic ever, but you have to describe the motivation of Oracle it would be that she is someone who is got over a terrible experience

TKJ is a tale of how Joker got broken into being the Joker, the whole story is about him trying to prove that anyone can break like he did, he does what he does to Barb and Jim but they dont break, the ending is the greatest part of the comic cause its Joker and Batman laughing not about the joke that he just said but how they are both laughing at themselves and Batman laughs too cause is trying to show us how he is just as broken as joker, you see, thats symbolism used right

My point of this is that Oracle is defined by how she overcome that experience and not the experience itself, it doesnt matter if she cant walk cause she is showing us what else she can do

NU-Barb is exactly the opposite message, she might be walking but she is still broken, thats what the PTSD is all about, or at least how Simone choose to show it, she is Traumatized, she is a victim, Batgirl is a victim and she will always be a victim, because she will never get over this condition, this is her new shinning wheelchair, and the entire premise of the character is showing us how she struggles with it

so instead of Oracle can defined overcoming a tragedy, Nu-Barb is just defined BY THE TRAGEDY

and is just unrealistic to just say that she struggling to recover her life while she just put on a suit and goes on rooftops and hitting bad guys while her inner monologue is telling us how sad and how Pathetic she is, and her actions just confirm how pathetic she is as she is frozen by the sight of a gun, as she beaten up by Dinah and Batwoman, as she throws a tantrum on Nightwing, as she Fails to save a single boy 3 times in a row and most recently as she is stab in the back

this is not a hero you should admire, is a hero you need to feel pity about, and that's what i find so sickening

Cause is done on Purpose, that's why all the villains are just like her, Pathetic Sad Victims

Edited by Ravager4

@arnoldoaad said:

...

I already said it

in this blog post

what, did you just see that i put Batgirl in #3 and came here to complain without reading it?

but whatever

Well it's been three weeks since I last read it and I was going by your most recent comments, so forgive me for not rereading everything.

@arnoldoaad said:

the big problem is the thoughtboxes

OMG! the thought boxes, she just talks and talks and talks and its not how a 21 woman thinks is how a 15 yo immature girl thinks, its the most annoying thing in the entire comic and there is absolutely no useful information, try this, try read the entire comic without the thoughtboxes(and i have done it) and it reads the same story, even better

like in issue 1 when she saves some random guy and thinks "i want to pee so badly now"(im paraphrasing) What? its that suppose to be funny? is not, is not insightful is not well written, I think it tries to be cute but in the context only comes of as pathetic, but i guess thats the point, Gail wants to show us just how Pathetic Batgirl, how unprepared and immature she is

Granted, some of the internal dialogue is a bit corny (I didn't like the pee line), but overall I rather like the thought boxes. I like getting into a character's head and knowing what they're thinking, it lets me connect more with a character than just following their actions. But I guess that's just personal preferences, I know other people who hate thought boxes with a passion, but it's just differing opinions.

Also, Gail is not trying to show us "how pathetic" Batgirl is at all... she's trying to show us that, someone who's just come out of a wheelchair, and is just back on the streets fighting crime, still has a lot of kinks to work out to get back in top form. It might have fallen short on a few occasions, and I don't condemn people for not liking a more exuberant Barbara, but it is entirely unfair to say that Gail "wants" to show us a pathetic Batgirl. I'm sure that's not what she wants at all. She loves this character, and in no way would purposefully slander Babs.

@arnoldoaad said:

first the style is grimdark, its a style that Gail really pulled off in a book like Secret Six but it doesnt work here also

I can grab any issue and just point out an inconsistency, something that just completely fails on the story telling

Like how Mirror became a mass murderer, it doesnt make any sense, he lost his entire family in an accident in which he survived so he kills survivors of accidents in the way that they were suppose to die, but if thats the case, why doesnt he kill himself? even batgirl says that he just wants to die because of his survivor's guilt, something that he has only and only cause thats what barb is facing

get it Mirror, is a REFLECTION of Batgirl, how freaking symbolic and original dont you think?! is just so deep that my mind is still blown away /sarcasm

The one thing I will agree with you on, the villains are probably the weakest part of the book. I don't in any way think they're as bad as you're making them out to be, but yeah, they haven't been that impressive (although I did love Simone's Talon in #9). But no comic is perfect, and even with sub par villains, I still love the book.

@arnoldoaad said:

or my favorite plothole, why the hell is Batwoman in chp12

Det Mckeena tells Barb that Batwoman is a mole in Batman Inc, that she is dangerous and is coming to kill them, then Batwoman appear and kicks ass and then tells Mckeena that DEO is lookign for her cause she is a corrupt cop (btw, she is), why would DEO send Batwoman after her? Batwoman is dealing with supernatural stuff in her book, thats the point of DEO, why go to Mckeena, but there is more, Mckeena tells her that she is being played(how?) and Batwoman ask how does she know that, cause Mckeena is the one who framed her

...FRAME HER HOW? WHY?

and if she f***ing knew that she wasnt bad cause she was the one who framed her then why the hell did she thought that she was coming to kill them?

IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE

Um, no, first of all, the D.E.O.'s point isn't "Dealing with supernatural stuff." The D.E.O. "is a government agency that monitors superhuman activities in order to protect the general public from any threat." Not just supernatural stuff. Yes, Batwoman is currently dealing with supernatural stuff in her own book, but that doesn't mean that's all she's dealing with. These stories take place at different times, and Batwoman is currently in the D.E.O.'s back pocket, meaning she does whatever they tell her to do. If they want her to go take in a corrupt cop that has caught their attention, then that's what she does. We don't know yet why the D.E.O. is after McKenna (but that particular story has not yet concluded, not until Batgirl #13 comes out, so hopefully we will find out), And again with McKenna setting Batwoman up (not "framing" her for a crime, but setting her up for something we're not yet aware of), we don't know because the story isn't over yet. That was only the first part of Batwoman's appearance, the second part comes out this month.

Granted, Batwoman showing up at the same time Batgirl was in McKenna's home was a bit of a coincidence, but really, the comic world is full of coincidences that need to take place for a story to continue, so you can't really condemn it for that.

@arnoldoaad said:

my second point, the PTSD, or like i love to call it, the second wheelchair

I have seen a lot of ppl saying that Oracle is a boring character but most have never read a BoP comic ever, but you have to describe the motivation of Oracle it would be that she is someone who is got over a terrible experience

TKJ is a tale of how Joker got broken into being the Joker, the whole story is about him trying to prove that anyone can break like he did, he does what he does to Barb and Jim but they dont break, the ending is the greatest part of the comic cause its Joker and Batman laughing not about the joke that he just said but how they are both laughing at themselves and Batman laughs too cause is trying to show us how he is just as broken as joker, you see, thats symbolism used right

My point of this is that Oracle is defined by how she overcome that experience and not the experience itself, it doesnt matter if she cant walk cause she is showing us what else she can do

NU-Barb is exactly the opposite message, she might be walking but she is still broken, thats what the PTSD is all about, or at least how Simone choose to show it, she is Traumatized, she is a victim, Batgirl is a victim and she will always be a victim, because she will never get over this condition, this is her new shinning wheelchair, and the entire premise of the character is showing us how she struggles with it

so instead of Oracle can defined overcoming a tragedy, Nu-Barb is just defined BY THE TRAGEDY

and is just unrealistic to just say that she struggling to recover her life while she just put on a suit and goes on rooftops and hitting bad guys while her inner monologue is telling us how sad and how Pathetic she is, and her actions just confirm how pathetic she is as she is frozen by the sight of a gun, as she beaten up by Dinah and Batwoman, as she throws a tantrum on Nightwing, as she Fails to save a single boy 3 times in a row and most recently as she is stab in the back

this is not a hero you should admire, is a hero you need to feel pity about, and that's what i find so sickening

Cause is done on Purpose, that's why all the villains are just like her, Pathetic Sad Victims

Well, I for one didn't find Oracle to be a boring character at all. I loved Babs as Oracle, but since before I got into comics, I grew up with her as Batgirl in things like BTAS, and so I always had it in my head that she was the only Batgirl for me. I think that's why I wasn't nearly as upset as most people were when they made her Batgirl again, because I now get to experience a completely new side of Barbara, a younger Babs in a new role, still learning and discovering herself. Would I have liked for the old continuity to remain, for her to still be Oracle, and to open things up for people like Steph or Cass? Sure. But it is what it is right now and can't be changed, so I'm rolling with the changes and having fun.

And yes, Barbara was a victim. She was shot, she was paralyzed, and she went through a life altering experience at the hands of a madman. That does make her a victim. And yes, her taking on the role of Oracle and rising above that trauma is a great story development for her character. I don't dispute that. But I disagree that the New-52 Barbara is defined by her tragedy. We're still following on her journey on her road to recovery. Yes, Oracle rose above the trauma, but this Babs is still getting there. She hasn't yet moved past it, but she will in time (I'm willing to bet her reunion with the Joker will play a part in finally putting it all past her during "Death of the Family"). I get you don't like that, but it is a story that needs to be told. You say it's unrealistic for her to still be traumatized, or to be frozen at the sight of a gun, but I don't see how. Some people might get over something like that as easy as breathing, but most people don't. There is emotional scarring, there is fear, and there is trepidation.

What I would find unrealistic is if Barbara did get over everything she went through without a second thought. if she were to just shrug everything off, act like nothing happened, and be all super duper without any problems. That's what I wouldn't accept, because it wouldn't feel real to me. Knowing what Barbara has gone through, I would be expecting for her to be a little on edge, or out of practice, or detached, or something to show that what happened to her really affected her on a deep level. Also, as far as getting "beat up" by Dinah and Batwoman goes, first, Babs and Dinah were just sparring, and her head wasn't all there. That scene was far more about the friendship between the two than it was about fighting. With Batwoman, as said by Gail herself, Batgirl wasn't actually trying to fight Batwoman there, she was trying to diffuse the situation before things got out of control, instead of just trying to go all out on Batwoman and thereby making things worse. She was actually using her head. As for Nightwing, she didn't "throw a tantrum" at him. She was annoyed at him, and trying to make him see that she could do the job herself, but she didn't flip out on him or anything.

The reason I like Babs is because she isn't perfect. I like that she's still growing, still learning and making mistakes, and I like being a part of her journey. What you might see as "pathetic", I see as relatable. I don't like my heroes to be perfect and never make mistakes, because guess what? Life isn't perfect. People aren't perfect. Superheroes are not perfect, or at least they shouldn't be. I want them to feel like real people, and while you might not agree, I think Simone has done a great job in making Barbara feel like a real person. Is it perfect? No, not by any means. Like all books, it has a few problems and could be improved. But it's still enjoyable to me, and I still love it.

Posted by arnoldoaad

@Ravager4 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

the big problem is the thoughtboxes

OMG! the thought boxes, she just talks and talks and talks and its not how a 21 woman thinks is how a 15 yo immature girl thinks, its the most annoying thing in the entire comic and there is absolutely no useful information, try this, try read the entire comic without the thoughtboxes(and i have done it) and it reads the same story, even better

like in issue 1 when she saves some random guy and thinks "i want to pee so badly now"(im paraphrasing) What? its that suppose to be funny? is not, is not insightful is not well written, I think it tries to be cute but in the context only comes of as pathetic, but i guess thats the point, Gail wants to show us just how Pathetic Batgirl, how unprepared and immature she is

Granted, some of the internal dialogue is a bit corny (I didn't like the pee line), but overall I rather like the thought boxes. I like getting into a character's head and knowing what they're thinking, it lets me connect more with a character than just following their actions. But I guess that's just personal preferences, I know other people who hate thought boxes with a passion, but it's just differing opinions.

Also, Gail is not trying to show us "how pathetic" Batgirl is at all... she's trying to show us that, someone who's just come out of a wheelchair, and is just back on the streets fighting crime, still has a lot of kinks to work out to get back in top form. It might have fallen short on a few occasions, and I don't condemn people for not liking a more exuberant Barbara, but it is entirely unfair to say that Gail "wants" to show us a pathetic Batgirl. I'm sure that's not what she wants at all. She loves this character, and in no way would purposefully slander Babs.

Im going to leave that bolded comment for the last comments

Thoughtboxes have several functions, one being like you just said getting inside the character's head, but it just depends in what is written on them.

they jarring and overused here and on some cases they become things like the writer using them to tell us something without showing it or just to brag about

for example on issue 0 when she meets a policeman who is talking about Batman, and she thinks "he is smart, LIKE ME"

its this suppose to show us just how massive her ego is?

how can we tell if she is smart if she doesnt show how smart she is

I reaffirm, read issue 0 without reading anything on the thoughtboxes and it will be a completely different most superior experience

and it doesnt make her look as a pathetic character or just inferior, I read that and i just cannot believe that this person can ever be someone like Oracle or any competent superhero

Look for example at the same character on Birds of Prey, he appears, she kicks ass and she leaves, she is just interesting and well done

whats the difference, No thought boxes

its not a difference in the portray of the character but look at her when she actually does kicks ass in Batgirl 0 and she keeps thinking "i cannot do this, i cant, OMG im doing it, im awesome"

@arnoldoaad said:

first the style is grimdark, its a style that Gail really pulled off in a book like Secret Six but it doesnt work here also

I can grab any issue and just point out an inconsistency, something that just completely fails on the story telling

Like how Mirror became a mass murderer, it doesnt make any sense, he lost his entire family in an accident in which he survived so he kills survivors of accidents in the way that they were suppose to die, but if thats the case, why doesnt he kill himself? even batgirl says that he just wants to die because of his survivor's guilt, something that he has only and only cause thats what barb is facing

get it Mirror, is a REFLECTION of Batgirl, how freaking symbolic and original dont you think?! is just so deep that my mind is still blown away /sarcasm

The one thing I will agree with you on, the villains are probably the weakest part of the book. I don't in any way think they're as bad as you're making them out to be, but yeah, they haven't been that impressive (although I did love Simone's Talon in #9). But no comic is perfect, and even with sub par villains, I still love the book.

you know i found hilarious that Gail actually said that Knightfall was going to be the new archnemesis of Batgirl

she has done NOTHING in 4 entire chps and the character is pretty much the same as all the other ones

villains are not a thing that you should dismiss, they are extremely important cause they are the challenge that the hero needs to overcome

is the challenge sucks, then the victory just doesnt feel good, Like Grotesque for example, he is nobody, he is just random crazy villain #345, thats it, so when Batgirl beat him up there was no victory to celebrate, specially cause Grotesque was not important to the story, Danny the retcon man was more important than him

Thats why Court of Owls was so good, you could actually believe and FEEL that Batman was in danger, that he might not make it on issue 5, so when on issue 6 he beats the crap out of Talon, is a huge deal, is a huge accomplishment and victory

I felt no victory on any of the wins of Batgirl, and i feel nothing on her challenge cause its just badly executed, I know she will defeat Knightfall despite being stab in the back (which BTW Gail completely rip off that from Batman #5) and i dont really care if she wins or not

hell maybe Batwoman will save her

and about Mary, she is probably the only passable villain in the entire book but she is not very good either

for one, she is the only Talon that you actually need to feel sorry for, all the others had interesting stories but Mary was the only one who was kinda like Used by the Owls instead of being a servant of the Owls, so it goes completely against their orders, she forgives Batgirl cause she feels pity on her and then she dies, im actually surprised she is being reused cause it just degrades the actual ending of the story.

@arnoldoaad said:

my second point, the PTSD, or like i love to call it, the second wheelchair

I have seen a lot of ppl saying that Oracle is a boring character but most have never read a BoP comic ever, but you have to describe the motivation of Oracle it would be that she is someone who is got over a terrible experience

TKJ is a tale of how Joker got broken into being the Joker, the whole story is about him trying to prove that anyone can break like he did, he does what he does to Barb and Jim but they dont break, the ending is the greatest part of the comic cause its Joker and Batman laughing not about the joke that he just said but how they are both laughing at themselves and Batman laughs too cause is trying to show us how he is just as broken as joker, you see, thats symbolism used right

My point of this is that Oracle is defined by how she overcome that experience and not the experience itself, it doesnt matter if she cant walk cause she is showing us what else she can do

NU-Barb is exactly the opposite message, she might be walking but she is still broken, thats what the PTSD is all about, or at least how Simone choose to show it, she is Traumatized, she is a victim, Batgirl is a victim and she will always be a victim, because she will never get over this condition, this is her new shinning wheelchair, and the entire premise of the character is showing us how she struggles with it

so instead of Oracle can defined overcoming a tragedy, Nu-Barb is just defined BY THE TRAGEDY

and is just unrealistic to just say that she struggling to recover her life while she just put on a suit and goes on rooftops and hitting bad guys while her inner monologue is telling us how sad and how Pathetic she is, and her actions just confirm how pathetic she is as she is frozen by the sight of a gun, as she beaten up by Dinah and Batwoman, as she throws a tantrum on Nightwing, as she Fails to save a single boy 3 times in a row and most recently as she is stab in the back

this is not a hero you should admire, is a hero you need to feel pity about, and that's what i find so sickening

Cause is done on Purpose, that's why all the villains are just like her, Pathetic Sad Victims

Well, I for one didn't find Oracle to be a boring character at all. I loved Babs as Oracle, but since before I got into comics, I grew up with her as Batgirl in things like BTAS, and so I always had it in my head that she was the only Batgirl for me. I think that's why I wasn't nearly as upset as most people were when they made her Batgirl again, because I now get to experience a completely new side of Barbara, a younger Babs in a new role, still learning and discovering herself. Would I have liked for the old continuity to remain, for her to still be Oracle, and to open things up for people like Steph or Cass? Sure. But it is what it is right now and can't be changed, so I'm rolling with the changes and having fun.

And yes, Barbara was a victim. She was shot, she was paralyzed, and she went through a life altering experience at the hands of a madman. That does make her a victim. And yes, her taking on the role of Oracle and rising above that trauma is a great story development for her character. I don't dispute that. But I disagree that the New-52 Barbara is defined by her tragedy. We're still following on her journey on her road to recovery. Yes, Oracle rose above the trauma, but this Babs is still getting there.

I want to make something clear, i do find Steph and Cass more interesting batgirl's than when Barb was Batgirl, but that doesnt mean i dont like Barb as Batgirl, Batgirl Year One is an absolutely excellent book, but that Batgirl and this Nu-Barb, are not the same

and the problem consist on that bolded part right there, specially the underlined one

I was dissappointed with Batgirl between issues 1-7 but i didnt hated the book, i hated what was happening in the book but i honestly thought that once this whole drag around TKJ was done that she might become someone better

issue 8 is the turning point for me, I hate issue 8 so hard that it just convinced me this entire experiment failed and failed hard, you just dont grab master pieces like The Killing Joke and Black Mirror to make a halfassed story like that, but what it finally convinced me of, is that in that moment, that was Batgirl as a book at her finest

why? cause the thing that i was disappointed the most about this book is cause i didnt felt there was a justification for Barb to be Batgirl

Cass had hers, she was the fighter, she was trying to learn to live and so on, and steph is the joyful, the funny one, even Batgirl from Year One has a justification.

so in order for Nu-Barb to Justify herself she needs to do something that Cass cannot do, that Steph cant do and that either Oracle or the first Barb Batgirl cannot do

and issue 8 shows that justification, and that is the PTSD

She will NEVER, recover from that, now I do know for a fact that ppl do recover from PTSD after years of therapy, and even Gail has said that this is not something that you just do in a couple of chps

Oracle is the realization of recovery from Barbara's trauma, she recovered so she is Oracle

Nu-Batgirl wont ever recover from her PTSD, just like Oracle never recovered her legs, cause the day that she recovers from this trauma

and please, dont think im trolling this, im very serious on this

the day she recovers from this PTSD, She will Stop being Batgirl

she will either die or she will just leave the costume

thats why she is defined by this tragedy

She hasn't yet moved past it, but she will in time (I'm willing to bet her reunion with the Joker will play a part in finally putting it all past her during "Death of the Family"). I get you don't like that, but it is a story that needs to be told. You say it's unrealistic for her to still be traumatized, or to be frozen at the sight of a gun, but I don't see how. Some people might get over something like that as easy as breathing, but most people don't. There is emotional scarring, there is fear, and there is trepidation.

What I would find unrealistic is if Barbara did get over everything she went through without a second thought. if she were to just shrug everything off, act like nothing happened, and be all super duper without any problems. That's what I wouldn't accept, because it wouldn't feel real to me. Knowing what Barbara has gone through, I would be expecting for her to be a little on edge, or out of practice, or detached, or something to show that what happened to her really affected her on a deep level. Also, as far as getting "beat up" by Dinah and Batwoman goes, first, Babs and Dinah were just sparring, and her head wasn't all there. That scene was far more about the friendship between the two than it was about fighting. With Batwoman, as said by Gail herself, Batgirl wasn't actually trying to fight Batwoman there, she was trying to diffuse the situation before things got out of control, instead of just trying to go all out on Batwoman and thereby making things worse. She was actually using her head. As for Nightwing, she didn't "throw a tantrum" at him. She was annoyed at him, and trying to make him see that she could do the job herself, but she didn't flip out on him or anything.

the thing with Dinah was a call for attention to her, which meh

the thing with Batwoman, the excuse that she wasnt fighting back, i dont buy it, she was told that BW was coming to kill them and just attacked Mckeena, even so Batwoman had little to no reason to attack her and...

you know what lets leave that scene, cause there is just soo many problems with that scene i just cant begin with it

and the thing you are saying with Nightwing is a Lie, it was a tantrum, like a little girl trying to show that she is all grow up and she did flip at him

The reason I like Babs is because she isn't perfect. I like that she's still growing, still learning and making mistakes, and I like being a part of her journey. What you might see as "pathetic", I see as relatable. I don't like my heroes to be perfect and never make mistakes, because guess what? Life isn't perfect. People aren't perfect. Superheroes are not perfect, or at least they shouldn't be. I want them to feel like real people, and while you might not agree, I think Simone has done a great job in making Barbara feel like a real person. Is it perfect? No, not by any means. Like all books, it has a few problems and could be improved. But it's still enjoyable to me, and I still love it.

There is a huge difference between being perfect, which by definition would be next to a MarySue

being imperfect, which is you know, expected from a real character and good

and then being this person right here

please look again at Batgirl, at any other batgirl really, none of them were perfect, all had flaws and imperfections, things to improve

but none of them are defined by such imperfections and none had that imperfection so conveniently named as PTSD

thats why the portray is so wrong, cause every single mistake, all and every single bad sad pathetic mistake she makes, none that is her fault, is fault of her PTSD, she is using it as an excuse to fail and not

just imagine how horrible would be an Oracle book which deal with her only put in situations where she will fail constantly because she cannot use her legs, or that it would present challenges that only deal with her being in a wheelchair and not her mental capacity, it would be cruel to the point of being disgusting and this is what this book is exactly about

this isnt a book about growing

a growth in this book would be her realizing that she cannot be batgirl until she completely recovers herself, until she is again at the peak of her mental capacities but she is never going to do that

If you want to see a book that perfectly dealt with PTSD, the read BQM's Batgirl, the entire character arc of Wendy is similar to Barb and then Oracle helps her overcome that trauma to the point where even she goes to Nanda Parbat to try to recover her legs, not cause she needed them but cause she was growing as a character

which leads me to my final point, this doesnt take 1 year after TKJ, it takes 3 years after the fact, and she is still like this, that right there is why she will never recover, cause why would a person need her legs to recover her spirit

Barbara Gordon recover her legs but lost her soul

Edited by Ravager4

@arnoldoaad said:

Thoughtboxes have several functions, one being like you just said getting inside the character's head, but it just depends in what is written on them.

they jarring and overused here and on some cases they become things like the writer using them to tell us something without showing it or just to brag about

for example on issue 0 when she meets a policeman who is talking about Batman, and she thinks "he is smart, LIKE ME"

its this suppose to show us just how massive her ego is?

how can we tell if she is smart if she doesnt show how smart she is

I reaffirm, read issue 0 without reading anything on the thoughtboxes and it will be a completely different most superior experience

and it doesnt make her look as a pathetic character or just inferior, I read that and i just cannot believe that this person can ever be someone like Oracle or any competent superhero

Look for example at the same character on Birds of Prey, he appears, she kicks ass and she leaves, she is just interesting and well done

whats the difference, No thought boxes

its not a difference in the portray of the character but look at her when she actually does kicks ass in Batgirl 0 and she keeps thinking "i cannot do this, i cant, OMG im doing it, im awesome"

I did say that the thought boxes were not always perfect, and felt a tad corny on occasion, but overall I really don't mind them. Again, it's just personal preference. Some people like them, some people hate them. Are they always necessary? No, but that doesn't mean they're terrible. What some people find excessive, other people find interesting. It's completely subjective. As for the bolded statement, Gail has said on numerous occasions that the "Oracle" of Barbara is still in there, that particular part of her character, we just haven't seen it yet. She's still learning, still growing. We're seeing a different side of her right now, yes, but that doesn't mean that other side of her isn't still there. It just hasn't been brought out yet. She has to get there, it's called development.

@arnoldoaad said:

you know i found hilarious that Gail actually said that Knightfall was going to be the new archnemesis of Batgirl

she has done NOTHING in 4 entire chps and the character is pretty much the same as all the other ones

villains are not a thing that you should dismiss, they are extremely important cause they are the challenge that the hero needs to overcome

is the challenge sucks, then the victory just doesnt feel good, Like Grotesque for example, he is nobody, he is just random crazy villain #345, thats it, so when Batgirl beat him up there was no victory to celebrate, specially cause Grotesque was not important to the story, Danny the retcon man was more important than him

Thats why Court of Owls was so good, you could actually believe and FEEL that Batman was in danger, that he might not make it on issue 5, so when on issue 6 he beats the crap out of Talon, is a huge deal, is a huge accomplishment and victory

I felt no victory on any of the wins of Batgirl, and i feel nothing on her challenge cause its just badly executed, I know she will defeat Knightfall despite being stab in the back (which BTW Gail completely rip off that from Batman #5) and i dont really care if she wins or not

hell maybe Batwoman will save her

and about Mary, she is probably the only passable villain in the entire book but she is not very good either

for one, she is the only Talon that you actually need to feel sorry for, all the others had interesting stories but Mary was the only one who was kinda like Used by the Owls instead of being a servant of the Owls, so it goes completely against their orders, she forgives Batgirl cause she feels pity on her and then she dies, im actually surprised she is being reused cause it just degrades the actual ending of the story.

I don't dismiss the villains or that they've been lackluster, I accepted it. Could the villains be better? Of course they could. But I like Barbara and the rest of the book enough that it doesn't hinder my enjoyment of it. Again, it's all completely subjective. I won't get into Court of The Owls (which I personally didn't care for. Just not my kind of story, but that's just me), but as for Mary, I don't think she ever actually died... I mean the others, in order to kill them, they had to be frozen, right? Nothing else would kill them. I don't think an actual explosion would have killed Mary, maybe just weakened her... but we'll see where it goes when she reappears.

@arnoldoaad said:

the day she recovers from this PTSD, She will Stop being Batgirl

she will either die or she will just leave the costume

thats why she is defined by this tragedy

Okay.... no, I'm sorry. I think you're letting your pre-reboot experiences and expectations get in the way of these new stories. Yes, in the old continuity the creation of Oracle was her way of rising above her trauma and recovering from the devastation inflicted upon her. But you do realize this is a different continuity, right? There is absolutely no reason to assume that Batgirl can't ever recover from PTSD while still Batgirl. I get why you might think that, but there's just absolutely no basis for it. Saying that she'll never recover because she's not changing identities is just a fallacy. Why not? Why can't she recover from it and still be Batgirl? Because she's not Oracle? So, when Gail does finally have her recover completely, and she's still Batgirl, are you going to claim that she hasn't really recovered? I'm sorry, but this is just the one statement I really don't get. Of course she can still be Batgirl and recover from PTSD. Recovery from PTSD does not require a change in identity...

@arnoldoaad said:

being imperfect, which is you know, expected from a real character and good

and then being this person right here

please look again at Batgirl, at any other batgirl really, none of them were perfect, all had flaws and imperfections, things to improve

but none of them are defined by such imperfections and none had that imperfection so conveniently named as PTSD

thats why the portray is so wrong, cause every single mistake, all and every single bad sad pathetic mistake she makes, none that is her fault, is fault of her PTSD, she is using it as an excuse to fail and not

just imagine how horrible would be an Oracle book which deal with her only put in situations where she will fail constantly because she cannot use her legs, or that it would present challenges that only deal with her being in a wheelchair and not her mental capacity, it would be cruel to the point of being disgusting and this is what this book is exactly about

this isnt a book about growing

a growth in this book would be her realizing that she cannot be batgirl until she completely recovers herself, until she is again at the peak of her mental capacities but she is never going to do that

If you want to see a book that perfectly dealt with PTSD, the read BQM's Batgirl, the entire character arc of Wendy is similar to Barb and then Oracle helps her overcome that trauma to the point where even she goes to Nanda Parbat to try to recover her legs, not cause she needed them but cause she was growing as a character

which leads me to my final point, this doesnt take 1 year after TKJ, it takes 3 years after the fact, and she is still like this, that right there is why she will never recover, cause why would a person need her legs to recover her spirit

Barbara Gordon recover her legs but lost her soul

But not nearly all her mistakes are a direct result of her PTSD. In fact, the only "mistakes" that I can think of off hand come from the first issue, when she was still very rusty in breaking up a group of hostage takers, and when she had a gun pointed at her and froze, which wasn't so much a mistake as an involuntary reaction. Other actual mistakes are just that, mistakes such as the train incident, where she thought she'd figured out how to stop the explosion, only to not have considered about the second bomb, which was not at all related to her PTSD. Yes, she's been dealing with that throughout the series, but it has not been the direct cause of every single one of her mistakes or failures by any means. In fact, since #8 it's barely been touched upon, save for a very brief mention in #10.

The reason she's "still like this" three years later is because she's going through a very different situation. When she didn't have her legs, she'd accepted it, and no doubt would still be in that acceptance if she still didn't have her legs. But she does have her legs now, which means she's going through an entirely new phase of recovery, not just physical recovery to get to top form, but in dealing with things like survivor's guilt and facing down armed gunmen again. I don't know about you, but I would be a little messed up too if that were me. To blatantly say that she will never recover is just false, because she will. Gail has said it before. It's taking a while to get there, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not coming. I very much trust Gail Simone's ability to grow and develop a character, especially one she's written numerous times before, so I can very much expect that Barbara will grow further in the coming stories and finally get over her tragedy completely (without needing to drop the mantle of Batgirl to do it), and I'm willing to bet that "Death of the Family" will have a large role to play in that when she faces down the Joker again. If Gail is still writing Babs with severe PTSD by next year, I will personally eat my own hat and drop the book, but I'm confident I won't have to do that.

In any case, I've shared my opinions and you've shared yours, better than most people, but it's not worth continuing because obviously neither of our opinions are going to budge in the slightest (part of why I dislike discussions like these), so bid you ado, but thank you for your time.

Edited by Manwhohaseverything

@Ravager4: I also think Batgirl should be on the "Ten Best" list. (Aside from that, this list was pretty spot-on, at least from the books I have read.) Simone is crafting the character. I think many comic readers have too little patience. Gail is showing us Barbara's weaknesses as a person, so that the character can then develop. That's what lead characters are supposed to do. I like Babs being a whiny complainer, so that Canary can interact and try to literally slap the pathetic out of her. It makes Babs incredibly human, and again, gives her room to grow. So many times i hear people complaining a character is "too perfect" (like Superman) then one with a weakness comes along, and folks complain about that also. (Unless the weakness is a bad temper..for some reason, that's okay..self doubt isn't.) I also think it's a nice twist to have a character defined by an imperfection. Heck..Batman IS! He's defined by his obsession. It shows us the many faces that can still be called a hero. I could go on, but like you, I don't think next year at this time, Barbara will be the same. KInda like when Simone defined WW by her naivety, (a much under-rated WW run) and that actually made me like WW more as I saw her grow through these struggles. Same thing with Batgirl.

And fwiw..I have PTSD from a traumatic event that happened 18 years ago. It's not as bad as it was, but certain things can still trigger it.

Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln

I'm so pissed at how static shock failed... i really want an a-list writer on him... why not Geoff Johns?? he could do a blue beetle/Static team up book

Edited by arnoldoaad

@Manwhohaseverything said:

@Ravager4: I also think Batgirl should be on the "Ten Best" list. (Aside from that, this list was pretty spot-on, at least from the books I have read.) Simone is crafting the character. I think many comic readers have too little patience. Gail is showing us Barbara's weaknesses as a person, so that the character can then develop. That's what lead characters are supposed to do. I like Babs being a whiny complainer, so that Canary can interact and try to literally slap the pathetic out of her. It makes Babs incredibly human, and again, gives her room to grow. So many times i hear people complaining a character is "too perfect" (like Superman) then one with a weakness comes along, and folks complain about that also. (Unless the weakness is a bad temper..for some reason, that's okay..self doubt isn't.) I also think it's a nice twist to have a character defined by an imperfection. Heck..Batman IS! He's defined by his obsession. It shows us the many faces that can still be called a hero. I could go on, but like you, I don't think next year at this time, Barbara will be the same. KInda like when Simone defined WW by her naivety, (a much under-rated WW run) and that actually made me like WW more as I saw her grow through these struggles. Same thing with Batgirl.

And fwiw..I have PTSD from a traumatic event that happened 18 years ago. It's not as bad as it was, but certain things can still trigger it.

first time im seeing this message, sorry it took so long to respond.

that part underlined and bolded i think is the main differences in tastes, and yet i can accept it as your opinion cause you still can admit that she is being whiny but i know people who dont see whiny, that see this and think its something completely different

I just cant stand her whining, its depressing when compared when Oracle or even herself before Oracle, she wasnt a whiny complainer on Batgirl Year One, maybe this whiny child-girl would work if she was much younger than she is now but she isnt, she is a joke, a punchline and an insult, It honest to god makes me want to puke

and Batman is definitely not defined by his obsession, i can agree that the lost of his parents is the seed but that core concept doesnt define the character.

with Barbara there was more, much more, she wasnt "that girl in a wheelchair", she had more faces, more things going on

now, she is VICTIMgirl, with the superpower of making people feel sorry for her, fighting against the evil of Victimterroristguy, Victimcrazygirl and the VictimizerVictim and her goons, the Victimsquad.

How is it that so many people consider that not only good but "top ten" is something i will never understand to be honest

P.S. in my opinion Gail's run on WW was boring and unmemorable but nowhere near the piece of crap that is this comic is.

P.P.S. I wont edit what i just put but i want to apologize if i came to rude on you, i just want you to understand that this comic really brings the worst of me, I really feel offended as a human being for the writing of this book, It genuinely disgusts to me.

@Baberaham_Lincoln said:

I'm so pissed at how static shock failed... i really want an a-list writer on him... why not Geoff Johns?? he could do a blue beetle/Static team up book

I keep seeing this suggestion a lot

I really dont know why would people pair BB with Static

Static needed a good editor and a plan of what to do, not only with him but with the entire Milestoneverse

Posted by AllStarSuperman

@Baberaham_Lincoln said:

I'm so pissed at how static shock failed... i really want an a-list writer on him... why not Geoff Johns?? he could do a blue beetle/Static team up book

This would be awesome. But both have the same crappy artist so they need someone awesome to draw.