Antigonist's forum posts

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#1 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

This is just kind of eye-rolling & gross. Here are some real feats.

In Black Widow #3, Natasha fights Elektra to a standstill despite undergoing major surgery a few days before:

Black Widow: Homecoming #1— Natasha cripples some dude for fun, I guess, you can see how fast she's moving by the cup dropping from her hand.

Marvel Two-in-One #10— Natasha fights off 100 armed men, alone.

Punisher/Black Widow OGN: Natasha accurately judges & deflects Frank's bullet, then uses the distraction to sneak up on him.

Wolverine #125: Natasha knocks out the Phoenix with one kick, easily handles Psylocke, Viper, Jessica Drew and such.

Daredevil #368-369: Natasha shoots Daredevil. This isn't so much about beating Daredevil, but Natasha's aim is good enough that she can deliberately ricochet a bullet off his rib cage, causing him minimal harm despite shooting him in the chest.

One time she singlehandedly defeated X-Force, I guess:

There's also various feats that show Natasha's perception and her cunning. Two that come to mind are that Natasha was the one Avenger to suspect something was wrong with Jessica Drew before Secret Invasion:

And Natasha was also the first (and only) person to discover the Thunderbolts were really the Masters of Evil.

@fetts, hopefully this helps.

#2 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@Remi: Her previous solo series were all more successful than previous Hawkeye series, sometimes startlingly so. Both her 1999 and 2005 minis sold strongly enough to warrant sequels, and the 2009 mini did well enough to get an ongoing launched, so the idea that none of her comics were successful is bunk. There's no sure thing in this market, but there's no reason for them to give Hawkeye this giant movie-push and not (also) her. More people are interested in her than ever, it makes no sense not to at least give her another mini, or something.

#3 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Antigonist said:
There was a reason she dumped Daredevil, and that reason still applies. Matt Murdock is kind of poison when it comes to romantic relationships. They have a good chemistry, but they both like to be in charge, and their tempers clash. It's not a recipe for an easy relationship, which was why even when they were dating, it was always rocky. I liked her with Clint, but that was pretty much doomed from the start. That relationship was fundamentally based on lies, so of course it couldn't hold together in the long term. If they tried it again, now that they are both less uh, inclined to sabotage Iron Man, they might have a shot. But Clint is hung up over Bobbi, and Natasha has done pretty well for herself with Bucky. She doesn't seem to be feeling the "sidekick syndrome" she did with Matt; their relationship has been pretty smooth and happy.
She was Bucky's sidekick too.

Not in the same way— she had to give up being on the Avengers due to the way comics worked in the 1970s. And, well, Matt explicitly wanted her to be the junior partner in-story, he wanted someone he could rescue, someone he could be in charge of. Matt likes being the man in the relationship, and plenty of writers have pointed this out since. With Bucky, well, you can't be as openly misogynistic as Matt was during the 1970s in comics today, but the sidekick problems seem more out-of-story. Natasha's a supporting character because Brubaker's book focuses on Bucky, not because Bucky secretly yearns for her to stay at home and make him dinner. And she's been pretty active in other books while she's dating Bucky— there's more than one story where he's playing sidekick to her.

Basically, I'm not sure any of the people who want her to be with Daredevil have actually read the old comics, or is considering the question from Natasha's POV. The way they ended, it would be a regression of her character for them to get back together long-term. (I think it's something she might realistically try— she's always had a soft spot for Matt. But it would definitely be a regression.)

#4 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio
Her recent relationship with Bucky remains me on what might have been of she had pursued a relationship with Spider-Man as I feel that Peter Parker is in some ways like Bucky. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is an interesting thought. There are some ways that Peter and Bucky are similar— both have brown hair, they're both teen heroes grown up. I think Bucky's also much funnier than people usually give him credit for, although he's still nowhere in Spidey's league. Personality wise, I think Bucky's most similar to Hawkeye. He's got a reckless courage and bravado that masks inner insecurities, and that's, historically, been the type Natasha is attracted to. But story wise, Natasha and Bucky's relationship is founded mostly on a shared sense of past. They are both KGB superagents trying to be superheroes, they both came of age during WW2, and so they get a rare sense of understanding from one another. A relationship with Spider-man would probably be very different.

But I don't think Natasha really looks down on Spider-man. I do think she probably does find the constant jokes a bit annoying, because they're not really her style, but she knows he is a dedicated hero and formidable opponent.

#5 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, like, I can understand people not liking Scarlett Johansson in the role, but there's nothing about the IM2 background they need to change, because they didn't go into it. According to EW, Black Widow is a Russian agent who joined SHIELD/the Avengers as a way of atoning for unspecified past misdeeds, which is pretty much the spirit of the 616 character.

#6 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: I don't know, it's not very hard to explain her as an Russian agent that defected and then joined SHIELD/the Avengers. That's her origin, and that concept has been pretty much the same in every incarnation. Whether or not they have her as an the recipient of something like the Infinity Formula isn't really that important, though I think the Captain America guy mentioned possibly using her in a theoretical Winter Soldier project.

#7 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Natasha is pretty well set up for a solo film— the spy and superhero genres are both eminently filmable, and mixing the two together is a pretty simple high concept that doesn't require a huge budget and CGI. (Like a Ms. Marvel film would. Hawkeye or Black Widow getting films would pave the way for other lesser-known characters, though, which I'd love to see.)

They'd certainly have to beef up the role from IM2, but that wouldn't be a hard thing to do. I'm going to wait until they give her something to do besides pretend to be a blank secretary before I pronounce Ms. Johansson totally unfit for the role.

Also: as an undercover operative, why would she speak with a Russian accent and mention her Russian background? The "she didn't have an accent!!" complaint is one of the most nonsensical I've continuously encountered. The comics, fyi, have made reference to her efforts to speak without one.

#8 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly can't see this as, properly, a Steve Rogers story. The Winter Soldier was the one thing that belonged to Bucky proper, something he originated or something that was being originated for him. The tension with Bucky as Captain America was that he had the two legacies— one to live up to, and one to live down. Steve could understand the burden of being Captain America and take pleasure in seeing his friend conquer his demons, but he couldn't quite understand what those demons were, and why Bucky had to face them.

And so the revelations in Cap #619 were framed as something Bucky needed to take care of, for himself and for who he used to be. Finally, his own purpose.

So it would be a thing to have Steve do it all for him, though I suppose it would let him inhabit the same guilt all over again. I also can't imagine they'd need to launch another Captain America title to explore Bucky's past from Steve's POV. It's possible if this isn't some kind of Bucky resurrection ploy that it has something to do with Nick Fury. The foreshadowing in #619 had Nick in the picture, too.

It's astonishing though that Marvel made that red star so iconic of the Winter Soldier in such a small period of time, especially since he got a new arm not long after he first appeared. Even if this teaser turns out to have nothing to do with Winter Soldier, it's a lot of people's best guess. He really is well-liked.

#9 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, we don't know what nationality Black Widow was supposed to have in the movie.  That she knows Russian is a minor plot point, but her background is a mystery. 
 
But she doesn't have an accent in the comics.  I refer you to Amazing Adventures #5, or more recently, Diggle's run of Thunderbolts.  No matter the universe, she is a highly trained agent capable of speaking multiple languages as a native.   Her English has always been better than Hawkeye's.
 
Accents are probably things actors shouldn't do unless they happen to be very good at them, anyway.

#10 Posted by Antigonist (22 posts) - - Show Bio
@DH69: But... Natasha doesn't usually have an accent in the comics.  That's the point of being an undetectable superagent.
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