Anjales's forum posts

#1 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: I agree with most of the things you said. Yes his Batman is unlikeable, and does suffer from poor writing, but I have a hard time believing that a writer of Johns caliber would sink low enough to intentionally poorly write a character because he hates him. This poor interpretation of the character doesn't stem from Johns hatred of Batman, it just stems from a unique interpretation of the character that happens to be unpopular. That's all I was simply pointing out, and I feel that most fans here just blindly ride the hate bandwagon and start grasping at straws to prove that Geoff has a juvenile grudge against a fictional character.

@blackhawk000111: fair enough

#2 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

hahahahahahahhahaahahahahah you guys,,,now I understand why people hate you hardcore Bat-Fanboys.....ugh

#3 Edited by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: @blackhawk000111: Just for the record, I think you missed the point of what im trying to say. I'm not here to tell you that Johns is a good writer, or that I like the way he writes Batman. I was simply pointing out that his poor writing of Batman doesn't stem from a personal grudge against the character and that he's purposely trying to make the character look bad to favor the characters he likes. What I'm here to say is that his writing of Batman from either his poor/unique understanding of the character or in order to serve a particular purpose like I mentioned above. I even presented examples of him making Batman look good at the expense of characters he likes. By that. Weather you think Johns is a good or bad writer is entirely up to you, and yes, his JL book has suffered from poor characterization of certain characters, but at the same time, he has a few strong stories under his belt like Flashpoint, Throne of Atlantis, Secret Origins, Up Up and Away etc..

#4 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Alright I just read one of your posts in the first link and I'll try to give you an effective reply.

Let's talk the recent FE-JL encounters. The quotes you posted were simply small jokes at Batman's expense. Everyone knows Geoff is a fanboy at heart, like all of us here, and he was probably just having a little fun with the character with a few jokes at his expense.

Now, let's discuss the FE crossover in general. The main premise was basically that the readers are going to root for the bad guys to beat the bigger bad guys. The tagline was "Evil vs Relative". The Crime Syndicate were the REAL evil bad guys while Luthor and Co. were Relative. Throughout this story, the justice league were absent, Johns is basically telling the readers that in this story there are no heroes, the bad guys are in charge and it's up to the bad guys to save the world. There's no place for heroes. The world of FE is shaped in two ways, either through the Evil way as in under the control of the CS, or through the Relative Way, as in saved by Lex Luthor's team of bad guys. Enter Batman, who's still trying to shape the world in the "Hero" way, which simply didn't work anymore during this story. Catwoman's statement "They're in charge" wasn't a shot at batman personally, it was Geoff's statement that, in this story, the heroes aren't coming, the bad guys are the only hope against the real bad guys, in order to do this, the world will be saved their way, not Batman's or the JL's way. This wasn't a Batman or JL story, the stars of FE were Lex Luthor and his team, Batman was simply a side character used to make the main characters look good. Refer to my wrestling comparison above. Batman was used to "put over" the bad guys, because it was a defining story-arc for these bad guys, not Batman. Batman's lucky he was in this story at all.

Batman gets saved in his own books sometimes. It's something that I personally don't like but got used to, and it isn't a statement of the writers hatred for the char. Kevin Smith is a huge and well-known Batman fan, yet he had a guy in a donkey mask save Batman several times. He also had him wet himself...I don't see anyone accusing Smith of hating Batman and deliberately making him look bad. Is it poor writing? Of course, but not because the writer hates the character, it's just plain old bad writing. In the case of the Batman/Copperhead encounter, it wasn't even THAT bad, it's not like Copperhead was about to deal the death blow before Luthor/DS intervened. Batman was fighting a villain, and someone else took him out, to Batman's surprise, because he didn't need the help but got it anyway, because the world doesn't work by his rules anymore, another example of the villains being in charge.

Now for the insect joke, okay that was a hilariously bad line. Btw, a suggestion, try reading that line in the most obnoxious Christian Bale voice ever, you might find it funny, you're welcome:) Seriously though, another example of poor dialog or Johns simply having fun with the characters. Johns had Hal acting like a doofus in other stories, doesn't mean he hates him. And since Flash was here, in previous issues, (as mentioned in more detail above) Flash was basically kissing the ground that Batman was walking on. A small joke here in there doesn't hurt anyone and is far from a statement that Johns hates Batman. If we're talking about bad lines, Frank Miller had Batman utter worse stuff in TDSA and AS.

And if you read some of the examples I posted above, there are several instances where Johns portrayed Batman as a competent and important member of the League.

As for the GL encounters from Origin, here's how I thought it went down. So Hal was struggling to fight this monster and with Batman's help managed to beat it. GL was gloating about how awesome he is, then discovers that Batman is "just a guy in a bat suit" with no powers. And look at Batman's facial expression, he's actually smiling. In the movie adaptation of this story, Batman actually stops, turns around, gives Hal a smile, then walks away while Hal is standing there confused. This is what that scene told me: Green Lantern possesses a powerful ring that enables him to fight fire breathing monsters. Batman can fight and beat those same monsters, but only by being a "guy dressed in a bat suit" without having any powers, he's THAT good, hence the rare bat-smile, and hence Hal screaming "Are you freaking kidding me!?". He's surprised at the fact that a guy with no powers can fight the same dudes he can, making him look like an idiot becuase he gloating that he can handle anything. This was Batman owning Hal literally "because he's Batman". If there was anyone portrayed poorly in that scene, it was Hal, not Batman.

As for the unmasking scene, I'll simply repost what I posted above. "For those annoyed by the "Who's Bruce Wayne?"/unasking moment, let me elaborate. Batman figured out that GL is Hal Jordan after seeing his name tag when he briefly took off his ring, and after revealing this revelation, Batman thought it was only fair to reveal his own identity. At the time, Hal was doubting himself because he was just a man, but Bruce unmasked to show him that he's also just a man, but they can still save the world. So Geoff portrayed Batman as an honorable, intelligent and inspiring leader, while Hal, who Geoff probably likes more, was portrayed as a complete moron.

I hope I answered your arguments.

@justthatkid: Well yeah, but at least my thread is unique in the fact that I'm defending Johns. :)

@jake_fury: Thx!

#5 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: That's why I said, "my personal preference". But I kinda see where your're coming from. Yes ZY features 3 independent stories each with its own main villain. Red Hood in the first, Doctor D in the second (though Riddler was pulling the strings behind the scenes), and Riddler in the third, but they all deal with the common theme of Batman's evolution as a vigilante. He went from point A to point Z through these three stories. Savage city deals directly with the aftermath of Dark City. I wouldn't say they are loosely connected. Maybe the first one, but the second two are directly linked.

@jaken7: glad you agree :)

#6 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

I know several threads have been made about this topic and I'm sorry if these feels redundant at this point. I was originally going to post this in another "Geoff hates Batman" thread, but since it ended up too long I thought I give it its own thread. Here I'm simply going to counter the argument of "Geoff hates Batman and wants to make him look bad whenever he had the chance." Below are some examples of Geoff "not hating" Batman, and then I give a reasoning to the recent Lex Luthor-Batman relationship in FE and JL.

I used to think that Geoff hates Batman, but after thinking about it no, he loves the character, he has stated so, mentioned that Tomasi's B&R is one of his favorite series. Tomasi's portrayal of Batman is the exact opposite of Johns'. Here are more examples:

- Johns has repeatedly stated that Flash is his favorite character. By "Geoff is a fanboy who hates Batman" logic, Geoff would never put Batman over Flash right? Well, in Origin/War, Flash basically worshiped Batman. So, Geoff had his favorite character to worship the character he hates so passionately? No way.

- Johns is very close to Hal Jordan right? He spend years on the title, so you would think he would portray Hal stronger than Bats right? Well, in Johns' stories, Batman repeatedly embarrassed Hal (who was portrayed as a complete fool), and after that, inspired him to fight. For those annoyed by the "Who's Bruce Wayne?" moment, let me elaborate. Batman figured out that GL is Hal Jordan after seeing his name tag when he briefly took off his ring, and after revealing this revelation, Batman thought it was only fair to reveal his own identity. At the time, Hal was doubting himself because he was just a man, but Bruce unmasked to show him that he's also just a man, but they can still save the world. So Geoff portrayed Batman as an honorable, intelligent and inspiring leader, while Hal, who Geoff probably likes more, was portrayed as a complete moron.

- In JL: Origin/War, basically every single Leaguer was portrayed poorly. You would think that this was John's opportunity to make Batman look bad right? Wrong. Batman was the only character (other than Cyborg) who was portrayed strongly, he was actually mature. The others? Flash/Aquaman were just there as extras and barely did much (with the exception of the Shark moment with Aquaman), Hal and Shazam were immature morons, Diana was a crazy idiot, Superman was a horny bully.

- In Flashpoint, Batman was the central character alongside Flash.

- In Throne of Atlantis, Batman was arguably the most protected character in the story (besides Aquaman). He was standing there between SUPERMAN, WONDER WOMAN, AQUAMAN and OCEAN MASTER, characters who are extremely beyond Batman in terms of power levels. And get this, Batman actually hurt Ocean Master (Aquaman's brother and the main villain of the story who managed to beat the entire JL on his own) at one point in non-PIS fashion, a luxury that Superman and Wonder Woman didn't have. This was a golden chance for a "Batman hater" to make Batman look bad, but he didn't.

- In one issue of JL, after the League had just defeated Amazo, Batman deduced something regarding Amazo's interiors, and Clark asked him how could he possibly know this without X-Ray vision. Flash, you know, Geoff's favorite character, replies: "Because he's Batman". A line that every Batman fandoy loves, and every Batman hater dreads.

- If we're talking about a character getting humiliated, Geoff has made Superman look much worse than Batman in his entire run. Clark was knocked out by a small shard of K, he was mind-controlled in Trinity War and killed Doctor Light, he was absent during the entire FE story. Those are much worse than Flash or Hal making a small crack at Batman's expense or Lex pick-potting him. Yet, it is very well established that Geoff loves Superman. In a recent Q&A, in two words, Geoff describes Superman as "everyone's hero", and has written some of the strongest Superman stories ever, and seems to be on his way to writing another one. If we're going to assess weather or not he hates a character by his portrayal of them, he is more likely to hate Superman than Batman, but he has proven that he does indeed love Superman.

Which leads us to "Why did he have Lex make a fool out of Batman?" I'm going to compare it to a Pro-Wrestling tactic. Chris Jericho, is an established WWE wrestler, a multiple time champion, and is considered by many a Legend in the business and a future Hall of Famer who has several 5-star matches under his belt. At Wrestlemania 29, the federation's biggest show of the year, Chris Jericho wrestled a young up-and-comer called Fandango in his first official match. Fandango was booked to beat Chris Jericho clean in the ring. This gave Fandango a major boost and people actually noticed. As for Chris, he recently just made his return, the crowd went wild and no body even remembered that loss. Every time Jericho returns, he loses to the younger guys, or at least, if he beats them, he makes them look worthy of facing him, and he usually ends up losing the rematch anyway. This is called "putting over" the younger talent who are trying to get established. No matter how many times Jericho loses, his legacy is intact, the crowd will always cheer for him and pay attention to his promos and matches, and no one will ever remember those losses. On the other hand, a win over Jericho can make a young guy's career, and give him a major boost. Back to Batman and Lex Luthor. Geoff is trying to re-establish Lex as a character, in this case, he wants to portray Lex as a good guy, and so he's using Batman to "put over" Lex Luthor in the intelligence and resourcefulness department. FE will be remembered as one of Lex Luthor's most defining story-arcs. As for Batman, is his legacy really going to be affected by a story-arc, that had another character in the spotlight, where the writer had some fun at his expense? No. Batman has several other titles where he's portrayed as the main character, a cross-over story arc that stars a different character doesn't hurt him one bit. And besides, if you read JL#31, Batman "got his momentum back".

Thanks for reading, sorry for the long thread and I hope this cleared things up.

#7 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

Every time Batman punches Superman, I feel all giddy inside. I really hope we see that in the movie. If Batfleck punches SuperCavill, just once, it'll make the entire movie for me.

#8 Edited by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends. What is the stronger Origin story? Year One hands down. What is the stronger story from a narrative standpoint? I have to give Zero Year a slight edge.

Here's the thing, Year One will always be the definitive Batman Origin Story no matter how many times they do a reboot. But Zero Year, the combination of an intriguing and dynamic narrative plus the surreal artwork, how can you say it isn't one of the strongest Batman stories of all time? Sure the same can be said for Year One, but my personal preference makes me more inclined towards Zero Year. but just a little. A small nitpick, while Year One was mostly a Jim Gordon/Batman story, Zero Year was a pure Batman story, the entire focus was on Bruce and his evolution as a man and a vigilante, while Year One dealt with Gotham and how it affects people, notably Jim and Batman, and how it shapes them to be the men that they are.

#9 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder what DC's Jim Lee or Andy Kubert can do drawing Spidey.

#10 Posted by Anjales (347 posts) - - Show Bio

The Batgirl, Nightwing and Damian ones were pretty strong though, but the problem is, none of these characters had a very strong payoff at the end. The Joker terrorizes all these characters but the ending to their individual stories are cut short, and the story concludes in the main Batman title, so you'll find yourself a little frustrated if you care about these characters. Now are they essential to the main story? No, you can read it and enjoy it without having read the tie-ins. All they do is show how they got to wherever they go in the main Batman title but that's it. But strictly from a narrative standpoint, the ones I mentioned are strong, the others are weak, but none of them have any real pay-off. If you are interested, they're selling a hard-cover edition called Death of the Family: The Joker, that includes all the DOTF tie-ins.