@lykopis: Haha. I still haven't decided whether it makes me angrier because it's all so terrible, or makes things a little better because at least I'm not the only fan being screwed over by NOW. Misery loves company and all, right? Gah. It really is sad.
akbogert's forum posts
@SC: I get the sense googling Rob Liefield ever is a bad idea, with or sans additional search terms.
In addition to being awful, that picture of Boom Boom reminded me of the first time I actually saw her, in Kyle/Yost's X-Force, being threatened by Leper Queen. Her red dress may have been cut a little lower than necessary, but overall I think that artist made her far more attractive despite showing far less of her body.
@SiycoBat: Which is why it's no surprise that the same people who criticize the new Harley also think Suicide Squad is terrible for her.
But like I said, cute/playful defined her character, now it's just a trait that occasionally surfaces. That's how folks see her personality as having been destroyed.
@minigunman123: Yo, you're way off-topic, in every sense of the word. Here's not the place, and I'm sure @SC knows better than to engage you on that.
That picture of Boom-Boom is absolutely terrible, but the Cap one may be worse.
@lykopis: Well (obviously, based on my blog) I'm in complete agreement about the shoddiness of that line of logic.
But let me rephrase my question: do you think Liu wants Laura to die? It seems to me that even if she were upset with how things had gone for her, it'd be in her best interest for the character to make it through so she could have another shot. Or are you suggesting she's privy to information on Laura's ultimate fate?
And to clarify, she said that thing about generating emotions from fans about Slott's work, which, while equally infuriating, at least means it wasn't said as part of pushing Arena.
@SiycoBat said:The 1992 cartoony Harley was good of its time...
Honestly, that's where my opinion differs most. I fell in love with Harley because she was cartoony and somewhat silly and cute. A lot of people don't like that and that's fine but it always worked for me and really attracted me to the character. I liked that she could be funny and ridiculous yet still get her stuff together when she needed to and really accomplish something.
That's where I feel the greatest loss for Harley. They've upped the crazy and, in my opinion, lost the fun by making her a more sadistic sort of character. I will never try to argue that Harley should be 100% silly/cartoony. Because when you get down to the core of things any version of Harley can be nearly as crazy and sadistic as the Joker when she is pushed. But Harley is fun and not a sadist at heart.
The new design I can ignor. I definitely do not like it at all. But a design is superficial so long as a character is written well.
I agree with your points (as we've discussed before), SiycoBat, that Harley and Joker were in a rut in which Joker continually abused Harley and treated her like a toy only to have her come crawling back to him. That definitely needed to change. And the one thing I truly respect out of New 52 Harley is that she broke away from the Joker. It was long coming and reasonably well executed. And while I still hope that someday a smart writer will come along and decide to put Joker and Harley together as a team in a more fitting way. Joker does everything he does as a joke for Batman. But Harley is the only person he has who can help him tell the joke and who will laugh along with him. If a writer can manage to rely upon that thought then I feel that Joker and Harley can reach the next level and get past the broken abuse formula which worked for Mad Love but has been duplicated far too long.
The couple Harley fans I've talked with about the new Harley would probably all applaud this answer (and definitely the first half). @SiycoBat, you asked "...in what real way was her history or personality destroyed?" and I think the fun/playful aspect seems to have been mostly lost, relegated to the sideline of her character rather than its defining aspect.
Despite all the arguing, it sounds like we're pretty much all in agreement with OP. Hopefully we've also recognized the fact that athleticism doesn't preclude large breasts, but does tend to make them less common.
Things which may or may not be understood:
- Anecdotal evidence makes up the majority of evidence for all things throughout history, and people who speak from personal experience are more likely to be telling the truth in the context of a levelheaded discussion than lying.
- I enjoy J. Scott Campbell's drawings, but probably wouldn't read a series illustrated entirely by him.
- Sexiness isn't just about boobs. We like to consider the person as a whole. Sometimes even their personality!
@lykopis: Not that I believe Liu would be allowed to outright condemn the book if she hated it, but do you actually think she was lying/just talking out her rear about hoping Laura pulls through?
I do indeed wish it would simply go away.
@akbogert: At some point in the future im gonna bet people are going to start making those arguments. Im not one of those people but this is how stories go, usually when a concept is done to the death original material people will start wondering if it's done with established characters. Again not advocating it but it's gonna happen.
Well, unfortunately, they won't need to make the arguments because the book already exists as a test case. I just wish it could be deemed a failure and, as I said, simply go away.
I'm hoping to see a further tanking in sales from Issue 2 to Issue 3 (because there was a decent little dropoff between 1 and 2). Right now those numbers are the only thing keeping me sane about this. If the book starts to gain momentum...I don't know how I'll take that.
@MatKrenz: I just don't think anyone can make a legitimate argument for why a hopeless-teens-forced-to-kill-each-other-in-a-deathmatch-arena using established characters has to exist. Even if that is the only original way to spin it, that wouldn't make it worth doing. It doesn't make it more interesting, really. The people who like it are people who didn't care about the characters to begin with, so I don't think there is really a huge difference for them between the known characters they don't know much of and totally new characters. Meanwhile, those who do like and know the characters? As you said. "People are pissed."