achilles100's forum posts

#1 Edited by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

No one outside of comic book fanboys KNEW about Iron Man! The Hulk, sure, but he had what, two reboots of crappy movies, and Spider-Man had like two good movies before it all went down the toilet---and wasn't even connected to the larger Marvel movie universe.

And technically, the got started with Blade.

As for Cyborg, yeah, a few 8 year olds know him due to the animated shows. Which, by the way could have easily gone the other way and had animated shows featuring PG, thus making 8 year olds know her better. So it's a rather pointless argument. DC chose to go with Cyborg for their diversity quotient instead of going for the girls and women, and that's that. But he's still a third stringer. They can make a movie about him, but it won't do very well. In fact, it will probably do less than the recent Robocop, which is a much more well known property than Cyborg.

Also, you seem to be ignoring GoTG, which was totally unknown to the public, and even little known to the comic book fans. Gee, let me see, that must have done terrible because no one knew about it, right? Oh...wait, it took the box office title for the year, outpolling Captain America...

Cyborg was a terrible idea because he's boring. And angsty. Two things DC does very well these days. PG OTOH has potential if done right, and could pull in a much larger audience for any number of reasons. The chance to do MoS right for example; to finally make an upbeat, classic Superman story that they seem incapable of doing with Superman himself.

And I gotta say anyone who thinks Cyborg had a much bigger role in NTT than PG did in JSA has probably never read either.

@achilles100:

no, that is not how marvel got their start. marvel got their start releasing their most popular heroes on the bi screen like iron man, hulk and spider man. it wasn't until they got their feet on the ground that you started them taking risks. dc is doing the same in their own way.

nothing you've said about cyborg disproves the fact that more people outside of comics have been exposed to cyborg then power girl. he has more outside revelence so going with him for a solo movie over pg makes sense, no excuse is going to change that fact.

stop, just stop. the amount of times superman alone has been mind controlled dwarfs pg's. and define not close. cyborg debuted 4 years after she did in 82. yet the only thing she has over him is one solo, which you even said was abysmal. other than that, cyborg has been a much bigger presence among the titans than pg ever was among the jsa. frankly i'm done talking about cyborg at a pg forum. the point is pg needs to build up her profile, which is tough to do when she already has to compete with herself(supergirl) and her famous cousin(superman).

#2 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100: Blade...

Besides, no one outside of a few diehard Marvel fans had heard of Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, or even Marvel's version of Thor. Hulk, sure, but it tanked big time for the first two solo movies. Spider-Man and X-Men did very well, but they weren't part of the integrated Marvel Movie universe.

DC is going in the opposite direction. Releasing one solo movie, than a movie with more than one hero, than Justice League, than solo movies for the JL characters. Without ever determining if audiences even want to see those characters. As for Cyborg vs Power Girl, historically, she's been more involved in the DCU than Cyborg, who had little to do outside the least interesting member of the NTT, while PG was in virtually every major team book and many events, and led what was for some time DC's most popular team book, the JSA. It was merely Johns' decision to put Cyborg in the JLA, (which hasn't really done much for him so far), and in the same team in the DVDs, (which has done probably even less for him), and then push him into the movies without any real reason, or any real marketing research. He hasn't AFAIK sustained a solo as PG has, even with second or third tier talent, or been used to try to increase the popularity of failing books.
So what you're saying is that because DC decided to go with Cyborg despite their being no demand for him, he's got more relevance than PG, a character with notable demand. Let's face it, Cyborg was the token black character in JLA...when there were plenty of others who would have worked better. And PG had the history with the League Cyborg never had. And no, I never said that PG's solo was terrible. She had TWO solos, a mini and a maxi. The mini was terrible, the maxi was fine, but flawed by the circumstances and DC's refusal to give her a chance. And you're delusional if you think Cy PGborg was more important to the TT than PG was to the JSA. PG WAS the modern JSA. Cyborg was the least of the NTT.

no, that is not how marvel got their start. marvel got their start releasing their most popular heroes on the bi screen like iron man, hulk and spider man. it wasn't until they got their feet on the ground that you started them taking risks. dc is doing the same in their own way.

nothing you've said about cyborg disproves the fact that more people outside of comics have been exposed to cyborg then power girl. he has more outside revelence so going with him for a solo movie over pg makes sense, no excuse is going to change that fact.

stop, just stop. the amount of times superman alone has been mind controlled dwarfs pg's. and define not close. cyborg debuted 4 years after she did in 82. yet the only thing she has over him is one solo, which you even said was abysmal. other than that, cyborg has been a much bigger presence among the titans than pg ever was among the jsa. frankly i'm done talking about cyborg at a pg forum. the point is pg needs to build up her profile, which is tough to do when she already has to compete with herself(supergirl) and her famous cousin(superman).

B

#3 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100:

to your first point, what does that make the justice league in endgame(especially superman), the other heroes in futures end eye controls, and every other time a superhero gets possesed by an evil entity? hardly a role unique to pg, just a trope in comics. no reason to go all tinfoily about it lol.

are you kidding me? cyborg has been exposed on tv for years through numerous animated productions via teen titans/justice league. the suicide squad and justice league dark i can understand to a degree(though both properties have experience a surge in popularity to warrant the movies), but cyborg has had a larger profile of exposure both in and out of comics than powergirl.

while some of the people you mention from marvel are more obscure, remember marvel is killing the movie field while dc is playing catch up. dc can't afford to gamble until after they get there heavy hitters off the ground(mind you, were just getting a ww movie 2017). the tv side has more freedom to a certain exstent, and while i agree that pg would be a better fit for the premise of the show, she's still on the come up where as the likes of GA, flash, constantine ect have longer track records. that and they dont have a doppleganger to contend with

DC can't afford NOT to gamble with lesser known characters in their movies. That's how Marvel got their start. And DC's starting with Superman hasn't exactly set the world on fire. And the only people who know Cyborg are fanboys and 6-8 year olds, and, as I said, he was pretty much the dullest of all the NTT. As for his inclusion in JL, that was Johns' diversity pitch, crowding out J'ohn or others who has legit JL ties, hell, even PG who also had legit JL ties, and, though it evidently escapes Johns and his ilk, represents about 50% of the population, most of whom don't read comics, as opposed to about 12 % of the population, most of who don't read comics. If I were to go to an underserved population, I'd go for women and girls first.

Yeah, other characters get mind controlled, but not to the incredible extent that PG does. She's the go-to girl for that, as well as for getting beat down and rescued. Despite being one of the most obstensibly powerful and stubborn characters in the DCU. As for Cyborg experiencing a larger profile in comics that PG, that's only with the nu52. Before, he wasn't even close.

#4 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@amazingwebhead: It does look like she'll get it on with Zod/Superman if they both survive...

#5 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidstandout: Well, when the same character is ALWAYS getting mind controlled while others around her aren't; it shows you what DC thinks of her and her role.

I gave the Supergirl getting a TV show because PG isn't well know thing a thought. Perhaps, but it doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Cyborg of all characters is not only in the Justice League movie, but is getting his own movie, as are the Suicide Squad and Justice League Dark. These by and large aren't characters with any greater name recognition than PG.

Constantine got not only a movie, but a TV series after that movie failed. Even GA isn't all that well known outside of comic book fans, yet he has a series, and they were at one point floating a movie for him. And to look at Marvel---hell, no one outside of comics, and few even inside comics had heard much about GoTG, or Ant Man, or even Dr. Strange, or for that matter, Captain Marvel, (the Marvel version). Movies all, the first very successful.

And even much less known characters have gotten at least a brief mention in The Flash TV show, and some of them may appear in it. Wildcat has already appeared on Arrow, and he's probably less well known or popular than PG.

#6 Edited by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio
@powergirlfan said:

@achilles100 said:
betting on the former, because the latter just seems pointless. if we already know she'd lose whats the point in dedicating a single issue to her fighting darkseid 1v1? she has to get some good hits in atleast
Eh, it's been made clear that this story is all about Darkseid winning, about his being nearly unbeatable, while numerous lesser types have taken PG down, or nearly so. And this story has SHOWN plenty of heroes get beat-downs from the forces of Darkseid.

Hell, PG was mind controlled by a FURY, not even on a plane with Darkseid, and taken down by Desaad. And we know they love dark endings over at DC. So, along with PG's historical portrayal...I'm betting on a beatdown by Darkseid. She may get one or two good ones in, but they won't matter at all, and do little to build her up. This is after all the same company that had her taken down by a plot device without even fighting back in FE, and then evidently by Barda of all people. After being Brother Eyed. True, may not be in continuity, but it shows the role she plays in the eyes of DC.

Don't forget that E2 Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman were all killed in the first issue of Earth Two. Indestructible, super-strong Superman was held down by parademons and killed by a bomb blast of some kind. Though it now appears that Superman survived, he was subsequently imprisoned Desaad, who is lower level than Darkseid. Superhuman warrior Wonder Woman was killed by Steppenwolf while she had her back turned to him - she didn't even see him coming. Technical mastermind Batman got killed by an exploding tower - funny he didn't think of a way around that. Not a great start to the Earth Two series.

The cover of E2 #32 indicates that Darkseid defeats all of the top E2 superheroes, including Val.

That cover also shows PG with the "S" on her costume. Perhaps Lois gives her the one torn from Superman's costume. Val seems set to become the E2 Superman so the original E2 Superman will probably be written out somehow.

Yeah, they're punking out all of Earth 2, in favor of the Justice League, which managed to get the job done. Part of the DC effort to show Earth 2 for a while, but emphasize that it isn't as good as the version they prefer. And Earth 2 so far has been all about showing heroic characters get beat down, so it's not out of the blue if they do the same to PG.


#7 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100:

1 are you reading worlds end because peeg has yet to be taken down by anyone. her being mind controlled hardly counts as being taken down and she didn't even fight desaad?

2 my point is that they are not going to dedicate in an entire issue for the sake of darkseid beating down a single character with such little hype up to this point. if they want to show darkseid being all powerful, they'd have him 1v1 either the top dog(alan scott at this point) or the whole squad(like on earth 0).no one is going to care if he beats down on a character who still trying to gain some momentum despite being a top tier hero in terms of power set. the fact that power girl is even given a chance to 1v1 darkseid is an obvious improvement in terms of stature. she'd be among a select few characters who can say they 1v1 darkseid and lived. think about that for a second

I'd say it counts. And she has fought Desaad, in WF, and got smacked around pretty good. I don't really consider Alan to be the top dog on Earth 2 at the moment, not with two Kryptonians and Dr. Fate. As for Darkseid beating down PG not doing him any real good; he just doesn't need it at this point. It's essentially a filler issue. Though I'll note that PG is one of the premier talent enhancement types, or jobbers, to use wrestling terms, in the DCU. That's been her role for years, to puff up some hero or villain, because hey, they beat down a Kryptonian! Or at least the very powerful Atlantean. Hell, if "Fifty Sue" administers such a beat down to PG that she doesn't even fight back, and if Brother Eye can also control her, what do you think Darkseid's going to do.

And a Kryptonian should be able to do more than just "survive" a one on one fight with Darkseid.

#8 Edited by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidstandout said:

@achilles100 said:

@kidstandout said:

apparently she gets to fight darkseid http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=57726

this could build up her profile

Well, interesting. But a lot goes into how she loses. And we KNOW she's going to lose. If not from simply logic and how DC's portrays her, than the next few solicits make that clear. If she gets a good, hard fight, then she'll be built up, especially is she almost wins. If it's just a beat down by Darkseid, then there isn't much good done.

betting on the former, because the latter just seems pointless. if we already know she'd lose whats the point in dedicating a single issue to her fighting darkseid 1v1? she has to get some good hits in atleast

Eh, it's been made clear that this story is all about Darkseid winning, about his being nearly unbeatable, while numerous lesser types have taken PG down, or nearly so. And this story has SHOWN plenty of heroes get beat-downs from the forces of Darkseid.

Hell, PG was mind controlled by a FURY, not even on a plane with Darkseid, and taken down by Desaad. And we know they love dark endings over at DC. So, along with PG's historical portrayal...I'm betting on a beatdown by Darkseid. She may get one or two good ones in, but they won't matter at all, and do little to build her up. This is after all the same company that had her taken down by a plot device without even fighting back in FE, and then evidently by Barda of all people. After being Brother Eyed. True, may not be in continuity, but it shows the role she plays in the eyes of DC.

#9 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100: Well, throwaway story or not, it represents some of the best characterization of PG in many years. This, and the first half of the Worlds' End special. Well, and the SG appearance. Oddly, no one else can seem to get even a part of PG's character.

#10 Posted by achilles100 (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@bloggerboy: Johns was a bit odd there. Sometimes he wrote her okay. Nothing special, but decent. Other times...he wrote her as a whiny, indecisive, self-doubting loser, who mostly cried when action was called for. All of which is the evil opposite of PG.