@80sbaby said:
@killemall: It's not inconsitent, though. It's about Hulk's powerset. Energy drain cam work on him but it depends on his anger level/mental state. At WBH levels, its pretty clear that draining him isn't easy unless he wants to be stopped. And, again, I'm not saying SS can't but it also doesn't mean he can.
I'm aware of Pak's commentary but he also contradicts himself. I'm talking about what we actually saw. Even if you assume Hull died, when did it happen? How much damage did he take before going down? How is it applicable to a battle? Its so ambiguous as to be meaningless.
Excellent point, bud. And agreed.
I had a great exchange with GhostRavage earlier on this. These are my thoughts after contemplating the situation a bit:
1. We can no longer rely on Writer Clarification to tell us if Hulk lived or died.
After chatting with Ghost the other day, I was made aware that Pak no longer recalls if Hulk was meant to die or live. Pak initially released commentary stating that Hulk lived, but then recently stated that he cannot remember, but thinks everyone died. It's become too muddied for me to find much value in at this point. Pak has forgotten what happened.
2. There is On-Panel support for Hulk living, and On-Panel support for Hulk dying.
I do believe that the best On-Panel support for Hulk surviving is that he is shown alive and well on-panel, right after his first Gamma Burst (see the above scans with Umar). Several factors act as a tell for Hulk's survival in this scan: His clothing is still in disarray from the explosion (his bracers and upper armor are still destroyed) and he is still radiating the same glowing green Gamma Energy that we saw prior to the explosion. This would indicate that he had not died and resurrected, but rather survived and continued. In the same Scan, Umar advised Cho that Hulk was the driving force for Cho's resurrection, which would also indicate that Hulk was alive after the explosion.
I would say that the best On-Panel support for Hulk not surviving are the verbal remarks made by Hulk, and the implications of the Wish made by Bi-Beast. When Hulk rang the Gong to call forth his foes, the made statements about death that were all-inclusive. And when Bi-Beast made a wish, he stated that he wanted Hulk to suffer like him. This could imply that Hulk was meant to feel the pain of death, since Bi-Beast was killed himself in the explosions. So we have some conflicting On-Panel factors at play here too.
3. Without the ability to confirm Writer Intent, we are limited to personal judgment to weigh the On-Panel contradictions.
On one hand we have Hulk shown alive and well, and the other characters (not) shown as alive and well. This is a solid piece of supporting evidence for Hulk's survival. But on the other hand, we have Hulk making an "everyone dies" speech and we have a possible conflicting wish from Bi-Beast. Combined with Pak's own "I don't really remember" Tweets, and this is enough to muddy the waters.
I would personally place more value on the Visual support than the implications of Verbal commentary. Character rants often conflict with how events actually play out, and (IMHO) Hulk's "lets all kill each other" speech made prior to diving into combat seems a fair shake away from hard evidence. Bi-Beast's wish is more compelling. He wanted Hulk to suffer as he suffered. This could indicate that Hulk was meant to die as Bi-Beast died. However, the implications of Bi-Beast's wish also fall short of being hard evidence for a couple of reasons. First is that the Wishes in this series had a penchant for turning out differently than the user had hoped. This is why Tyrannus refused to even make a Wish. He did not trust the unpredictable divine magic at play, and was not willing to gamble on the possible results. The second is that Bi-Beast's wish did not specify that Hulk had to die, only that he needed to suffer (which he did). As such, the wish could simply have translated into Hulk suffering the "pain of unending battle", rather than the specific pain of death. If this was the case, then there would be no contradiction, as the Hulk did indeed suffer the pain of battle. Unfortunately, we have only conjecture to go upon for either side. The verbal contradictions are somewhat vague, and Pak's failing memory has put him at odds with himself when it comes to clarification.
4. There is no way to quantify how Hulk's life or death would impact his Power Level.
- Red She-Hulk was the only character that could affect World Breaker during combat.
- Red She-Hulk could only affect World Breaker because she was magically amped to match his power level.
- Thus, if Hulk did die, all this would show is that one World Breaker Hulk is capable of killing another World Breaker Hulk of equal power in combat.
And as virtually any character, at any power level, can be destroyed by a clone of "itself", the survival of Hulk should be a non-factor in determining World Breaker's power and durability levels.
5. Thus Hulk's survival has no impact on Surfer's chances of defeating World Breaker.
Overall; I find the On-Panel visual proof to be superior to the implications of the Verbal character comments. So I find it more probable that World Breaker survived the explosions.
But even if he did not survive, his death would only mean that one World Breaker is capable of destroying another World Breaker (which neither adds to nor subtracts from the durability or striking power of either World Breaker). As such, World Breaker's death would have no bearing on his Power Level, and thus no bearing on this Debate scenario.
Thanks for reading!
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