The Curious Case of Power Girl

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Posted by RazzaTazz (9676 posts) - - Show Bio

Thus far throughout the new 52 onslaught on our wallets and time there have been a few interesting developments.  One of these no doubt has been the sexualization of the female characters (and sometimes even the male characters), sometimes to an obnoxious level.  As Jim Lee supposedly said before the relaunch, he wanted a more adult look for the female characters, and as the leading force behind the relaunch he wanted to see them all with at least covered legs.  This has worked for some (Black Canary, Zatanna) and not for others (Wonder Woman, Starfire.)   Personally I don't mind the depiction of Wonder Woman so much.  Although it is of course a revealing costume it never gets into the gratuitous range (which I think Starfire's does quite handily.)  Power Girl is different case though I think.  Granted Starfire's character is very open with her own sexuality but generally speaking she is not really considered one of the DC "Pin-up Girls."  As Gail Simone joked at in the third series of Wonder Woman, the most famously underdressed hero at DC was Power Girl.  Now however she appears to be the poster child for a conservative female superhero costume (as incidentally does her co-star the Huntress.)  Of course I am behind a presentation which is far more reasonable, but just like with Wonder Woman's pants it makes me wonder how long it will last?
#1 Posted by Video_Martian (5645 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I'm glad that her boob-window is gone. And this is coming from a huge Power Girl fan WHO'S A GUY :P

#2 Posted by nyx (114 posts) - - Show Bio

It looks like she also got a boob size reduction. Finally, a respectable treatment of a female character.

#3 Edited by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

It's gone.......

#4 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13390 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved PG's old costume but I like the new one as well. It's very regal and the P on the cape is a nice touch.

#5 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33882 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so glad that boob window is gone, it made the character a joke.

#6 Posted by Spiderslike (652 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I'm not really a fan of Powergirl seeing her fully covered she just seems odd and not like Powergirl at all it'll take some getting used to but I expect this to go the way of Wonder Woman's pants

#7 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it, feels like a nod to Kryptonian lore and looks like Alura/ Saturn girl ..yeah lol

#8 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

I am OK with it as well.

#9 Posted by The Stegman (24988 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally like it, but some fans are up in arms about it...

#10 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm legitimately ashamed of the comic audience if all they want in a female character is cleavage.

#11 Posted by Joygirl (20060 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF.

She was a great character WITH the window. She proved that a female character can transcend being sexually appealing. Did they just realize that they probably wouldn't be able to write her provocatively anyway, so "to hell with it"? GRR.

#12 Posted by The Stegman (24988 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: I'd say she's just as sexy with the new costume, plus, assuming Earth 2 takes place in the past, or golden age..it's practical, people didn't wear boob windows during those days
#13 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

As I've said in another post here, it has nothing to do with the cleavage shot for me. While I was not bothered by it, its not the reason I liked PG even if it was visually appealing. What bothers me about this New 52 PG is that there is absolutely no indication it is PG except by her surroundings and the fact that we have foreknowledge of the "World's Finest" title coming out. Had this picture come out without her by Huntress's side and we just saw her and nothing else, there is barely anything to suggest one might conclude she's PG other than the fact that we've been wanting her back since the Flashpoint revamp. In truth she bears more resemblance to Suprema in my opinion than PG. Don't get me wrong, I like change, but not to the point where we no longer recognize the characters we all know and love.

#14 Posted by PowerHerc (84956 posts) - - Show Bio

@nyx said:

It looks like she also got a boob size reduction. Finally, a respectable treatment of a female character.

This makes it sound like you automatically dismiss any female character with big boobs to be unworthy of respect.

Is that how you feel? There are plenty of actual women who have rather large boobs simply due to nature. Does that make them unworthy of respect?

I, for one, wouldn't dream of discriminating against any woman because of her breast size; big or small.

#15 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh. Se la vi.

I had no problem with the boob window, but if it was that big an issue, than I guess it's for the best.

#16 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasn't opposed to her getting a new costume, but that looks awful.

#17 Posted by RazzaTazz (9676 posts) - - Show Bio
@RedheadedAtrocitus: The same could be said for other characters as well in the reboot.  For instance there is nothing to identify Black Canary or Zatanna. 
 
@WildValentine: Yes I think there is some truth in that.   
 
@Fuchsia_Nightingale: That's what I was thinking.
#18 Edited by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't mind her look before, but I know a lot of people didn't like it...as long as she's still a fun, light-hearted character, it's all good though.

It's funny how Supergirl has a trashier look than PG now (even if she doesn't look all that trashy within her own ongoing, thanks to the artist it has...)

#19 Posted by Pokeysteve (8403 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz said:

@RedheadedAtrocitus: The same could be said for other characters as well in the reboot. For instance there is nothing to identify Black Canary or Zatanna.

Canary still has the fishnets. And they're on her arms but so does Zatanna. PG's only identifier was her chest which is pretty sad. DC must have thought so as well.

#20 Posted by lannister (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@nyx said:

It looks like she also got a boob size reduction. Finally, a respectable treatment of a female character.

This makes it sound like you automatically dismiss any female character with big boobs to be unworthy of respect.

Is that how you feel? There are plenty of actual women who have rather large boobs simply due to nature. Does that make them unworthy of respect?

I, for one, wouldn't dream of discriminating against any woman because of her breast size; big or small.

+1000

#21 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33882 posts) - - Show Bio
@WildValentine said:
I'm legitimately ashamed of the comic audience if all they want in a female character is cleavage.
this
#22 Posted by nyx (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: That is not what I'm saying in the very least. I know people come in all manners of shapes and sizes. But such variety is not often seen reflected in comic books. There's big, bigger, and obscenely large. As with the case of Barbie (who had inhumanly shaped proportions), if Power Girl were a real woman, she would have to have super strength to stand up right. But that is not the point I was making. My point is: DC's 'New 52' has been disappointing and their re-make of female characters (-cough- Starfire, Catwoman -cough-) has been rather insulting, speaking as a woman. If you observe that trend of already sexualized female characters being exponentially sexualized, by all account, I would have expected anime fan service grade globes on Power Girl's chest. The fact that she has a full body outfit and not insanely oversized breast actually has me thrown for a loop.

#23 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm dissapointed she's not showing any cleavage but it never made any sense why she would anyway lol. I actually don't like her new costume at all. Glad she's back though.

#24 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate this costume. Just had to say it. I don't care about the Breast Window, or whatever it was called, but the costume in itself is horrible.

#25 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr.obvious said:

Personally, I'm glad that her boob-window is gone. And this is coming from a huge Power Girl fan WHO'S A GUY :P

ditto, but i think the artist is the reason im torn on this drawing

jim needs to sketch this out for me to know if it works

#26 Posted by SlickyMike88 (226 posts) - - Show Bio

@nyx: So any female with big breasts are unworty for you ?Does it really matter whetever a character has big or small breasts?

It feels natural for me that power girl has big breasts , she has the psysic body for that , so why not ? It's natural for her character and that's the bottom line .

#27 Posted by Owie (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

First, post 1000! (fireworks erupt...)

Second, I think the problem is that the new costume is so stunningly generic. It looks like a non-comic-book-reader's idea of a superhero costume. This was also true about her previous generation white costume (pre-boob window):

It's not so much that there's nothing to identify it as being hers...in fact as she famously said, she had the boob window because she never knew what identifying mark to put on her costume. This may have been tongue-in-cheek by the writer, but it's also true that she's never had as consistent or identifiable costumes as many other heroes. They've just been very short on detail or design in any interesting or unique way. The best thing about the boob window costume was the way they emphasized the seams, that small amount of detail just added so much more visual flair. They did a nice job with her boots before, too. So this is just going back to a purely generic approach.

The problem is also the drawing itself. It's stunningly badly drawn, from the expressionless, seemingly way-too-young face to the awkward arm foreshortening to the awful line quality. It literally looks like he had to draw it in 10 minutes for his deadline. So I could imagine that someone else (or even him, with more time) could draw it better and make a better visual argument for it. But I really can't believe this is the art they're putting on the cover of the first issue of a comic.

I do think they did a nice job exploring her character in her last series, so that's honestly more what I've been hoping for more than anything else from a new series. But this costume, and this art (and her lame appearances in Mr. Terrific) are not exactly drawing me in.

#28 Posted by aeka (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@WildValentine said:

I'm legitimately ashamed of the comic audience if all they want in a female character is cleavage.

You and me both.

I didn't dislike the boob window but I didn't care enough about it either to actually miss it. I'm more interested in how the character is going to be portrayed as opposed to how she's dressed. Though considering she's in a more practical costume anyway, I don't have anything to complain about other than feeling the costume needs a bit more colour balance.

#29 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm torn on this. On one hand, the boob window was kind of ridiculous. On the other hand, it was a trademark of her character, and I will miss it for that reason.

Also, I hate her new haircut. Just saying.

#30 Posted by aeka (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlickyMike88 said:

@nyx: So any female with big breasts are unworty for you ?Does it really matter whetever a character has big or small breasts?

It feels natural for me that power girl has big breasts , she has the psysic body for that , so why not ? It's natural for her character and that's the bottom line .

I don't think the issue here is whether or not big breasts or small breasts determines a woman's worth, but rather on the blatant sexualisation of female bodies, meaning body parts are exaggerated and made more sexual. Power Girl fits the trope.

If DC was really about representing females of all body types, then surely we'd be seeing more body types that aren't thin physically fit females with a small hint of muscle tone.

#31 Posted by nyx (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@aeka: Thank you! Thank you!

#32 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

No one ever complains when male super heroes are drawn with perfectly chiseled physiques that 99.9% of men are never going to have. But if a female character is well endowed, its oversexualization. *sigh*

#33 Edited by aeka (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

No one ever complains when male super heroes are drawn with perfectly chiseled physiques that 99.9% of men are never going to have. But if a female character is well endowed, its oversexualization. *sigh*

1) Male and female bodies are never held to the same standards.

2) Look up false equivalence.

Until a higher percentage of men start experiencing self-esteem issues that are linked to body image, eating disorders, constant dieting, over-exercising, seeking plastic surgery to "correct" imperfections, all in name of living up to an unrealistic body image, this comment holds absolutely no floor whatsoever.

#34 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@aeka: I don't know a lot of female comic book readers, personally; but the few I do know do not have eating disorders, over-exercise, or constantly go under the knife in hopes of looking like Power Girl or Starfire. In fact, most women don't go to those extremes for the sake of attaining an ideal body image. Now, I understand that there are many young women out there who struggle with self-image--and my heart goes out to them--but this problem has little to nothing to do with comics.

If DC was really about representing females of all body types, then surely we'd be seeing more body types that aren't thin physically fit females with a small hint of muscle tone.

You'd like to see an overweight female hero?

#35 Posted by aeka (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Whether or not you have friends who would or wouldn't chisel their bodies to look like Power Girl is beside the point. The point is the media is saturated with the constant message of "thin is beautiful and desirable, fat is seen as undesirable and unattractive," "big round breasts are preferred to small or sagging breasts," "round shapely butts are preferred to flat butts," and the list goes on. Comics are another form of media that reiterates this concept and goes the extra mile by sexualising and objectifying their female characters by posing them in cheesecake poses and even eroticising violence committed against them. This message is almost always exclusively aimed towards women that it even influences the way women feel about their bodies both consciously and subconsciously.

In fact, most women don't go to those extremes for the sake of attaining an ideal body image.

And you're basing this on what? Because what is seen in both research and therapy sessions with women is the exact opposite. If there wasn't a high enough percentage of women with body image issues or an epidemic of eating disorders that are linked to body image especially amongst young girls, this would neither be a heavily researched topic nor would educators feel the need to educate people on this topic. Please do not act like an authority on a subject matter you clearly know nothing about.

You'd like to see an overweight female hero?

I have a better question, Why CAN'T there be an overweight female hero?

#36 Posted by Deranged Midget (17712 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr.obvious said:

Personally, I'm glad that her boob-window is gone. And this is coming from a huge Power Girl fan WHO'S A GUY :P

Moderator
#37 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

There are (correction, for the haters, were) overweight female heroes.

Personally, I looove (note: light sarcasm, see following) how the media has oversaturated us with the message of the beautiful thin and the big round breasts as the ideal... it actually makes me enjoy my own ideal a great deal more. I tend to gravitate more towards women who defy the expectation with their own sense of confidence and physical esteem. I'm not saying that I don't find the "ideal woman" the media has crafted as attractive or enjoyable... but it does not reduce my enjoyment of the beauty of real women.

#38 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@aeka said:

Whether or not you have friends who would or wouldn't chisel their bodies to look like Power Girl is beside the point.

Because it takes a tad bit of credence away from your argument?

The point is the media is saturated with the constant message of "thin is beautiful and desirable, fat is seen as undesirable and unattractive," "big round breasts are preferred to small or sagging breasts," "round shapely butts are preferred to flat butts," and the list goes on.

It depends on what media outlets you frequent. If you watch BET or Univision, "skinny is sexy" is definitely not the message that you're going to get from those networks. I hate to sound so cliche, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people think skinny is sexy and some people think fat is sexy.

Comics are another form of media that reiterates this concept and goes the extra mile by sexualising and objectifying their female characters by posing them in cheesecake poses and even eroticising violence committed against them.

Depends on what comics you're reading.

This message is almost always exclusively aimed towards women that it even influences the way women feel about their bodies both consciously and subconsciously.

You really think comics are that influential?!?

In fact, most women don't go to those extremes for the sake of attaining an ideal body image.
And you're basing this on what?

Observation. I've known women from all walks of life, but very few with an unhealthy obsession with body image.

Because what is seen in both research and therapy sessions with women is the exact opposite.

Oh really? Show me the statistics.

If there wasn't a high enough percentage of women with body image issues or an epidemic of eating disorders that are linked to body image especially amongst young girls, this would neither be a heavily researched topic nor would educators feel the need to educate people on this topic. Please do not act like an authority on a subject matter you clearly know nothing about.

As I stated earlier, I know that there are young women out there who struggle with body image issues, but comics are not the source of this problem. Oh, and you're the one acting as an authority. If you're a therapist or an educator on this subject, I'll happily defer to your knowledge. If not, spare me the high and mighty routine.

I have a better question, Why CAN'T there be an overweight female hero?

Its not that there can't be one, but would that make you feel better?

#39 Posted by aeka (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Wow dude, you have not listened to a single thing I've said. I'm not talking about individual preferences or individual cases. I'm talking about American cultural and societal values, and how these get reflected in a lot of media (comics count as media) in both explicit and subtle ways. The message doesn't have to be explicit for it to be there. My points were not about what individual people define as sexy, my points were about what American culture and society says is sexy, and this does influence how men and women both perceive themselves and one another, how they're socialised, how they experience life, and this even influences their behaviour and their attitudes towards a wide variety of things, which does get reflected (both subtly and explicitly) in the works they produce, including comics. When it comes to body image, American society has more rigid standards for women than for men, which again, gets reiterated in the media.

Even if you (I'm assuming you're male) don't pick up on any of the sexism, misogyny, or other negative messages that are present in American comics, female readers of comics actually do. When they do call attention to these negative messages, their concerns are often dismissed with derailing tactics by both the industry and other comic readers alike, it's insulting. So regardless of whether Power Girl alone makes girls want to chisel their bodies to fit the American ideal, the presence of many sexy-bodied heroines in revealing outfits vs the so very few different-bodied female characters in comics, plus the already pervasive presence of thin models, actresses, etc in other media outlets, makes the message very clear about what is considered "sexy and attractive" in American society, enough to make many women self-aware of their own bodies, both consciously and subconsciously. The point is, this is a very real problem for many American women that manifests itself in many different ways. For further clarification, look up why the thinning of Amanda Waller in the relaunch was controversial. When comic artists go the extra mile to sexualise the body of Power Girl by giving her unnaturally large round breasts for that otherwise thin body, it's insulting to some female comic readers on the grounds that it (a) objectifies the character, and (b) lives up to what American society defines as "sexy" and more specifically what a straight white American male would consider sexy. From the industry's standpoint, Power Girl's sexualisation has very little to do with a real desire on the industry's part to be more inclusive of women of different breast size and more to do with would appeal to a largely male readership. The fact that males in comics are depicted as bulking with muscle has very little to do with what female readers consider sexy and more to do with male power imagery, and even moreso in a medium that primarily targets male readers. Hence why I called out false equivalence.

And because I've now exhausted myself in this conversation and you've already demonstrated you're just going to keep dismissing my points, I'll settle for giving you recommendations that thoroughly examine the aforementioned issues: (1) Look up Jean Kilbourne's Killing Us Softly series for a better understanding of female depiction in the media and the harmful effects it has on women's self-image, (2) Mary Pipher's Reviving Ophelia for a better understanding of how American cultural values contribute the lowering of female self-esteem, and Shortpacked's comic that specifically addresses the issue of false equivalence in comics.

#40 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33882 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, this thread veered completely of course, well done guys.

#41 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO the breast window was a good thing. But I get it, a lot of people are against it, oh no its wrong whatever. I dont mind that much that it is gone. I guess it was bond to happen because of DC's PR. What really pisses me off is that they didnt just close the window, they changed her ENTIRELY! Only thing she still has from her former self is short blonde hair. And it looks nothing like her previous hairdo and it sucks. Also, she isnt cute anymore, her face looks nothing like before. she lost her body type, and the new costume is very generic, very superman-ish and it has nothing to do with the previous one.

I know they wanted to change but couldnt they have only close the window and if they are really really wanting to tone down the sexuality, put some pants on her? and leave the rest alone? NO, they had to alter it all and ruin her aesthetics wise. Now its a waiting game, if they change her personality too, Im not touching that series

#42 Posted by joshmightbe (24937 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it hysterical that many of the same people complaining about Starfire being practically naked are also complaining that they got rid of Power Girl's tit window.

The word of the day kids, Hypocrisy

#43 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@aeka said:

@jrock85: Wow dude, you have not listened to a single thing I've said. I'm not talking about individual preferences or individual cases. I'm talking about American cultural and societal values, and how these get reflected in a lot of media (comics count as media) in both explicit and subtle ways. The message doesn't have to be explicit for it to be there.

...

and Shortpacked's comic that specifically addresses the issue of false equivalence in comics.

So very well written. Thank you.

Agreed, well done. I do love that Shortpacked! comic. I think it explains a little bit why Nightwing is so popular with some of the ladies.

#44 Posted by SamRevlon (134 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

@aeka: I don't know a lot of female comic book readers, personally; but the few I do know do not have eating disorders, over-exercise, or constantly go under the knife in hopes of looking like Power Girl or Starfire. In fact, most women don't go to those extremes for the sake of attaining an ideal body image. Now, I understand that there are many young women out there who struggle with self-image--and my heart goes out to them--but this problem has little to nothing to do with comics.

If DC was really about representing females of all body types, then surely we'd be seeing more body types that aren't thin physically fit females with a small hint of muscle tone.

You'd like to see an overweight female hero?

Awe, hey now, she doesn't have to be overweight but she could have rocking curves or just be an overall voluptuous woman. Like how Pamela Isley has been drawn more thickly as of late. I didn't have a personal probably with the boob window, in fact I've seen a few girls dress as such [maybe not a leotard] but the current costume sucks. Maybe she was just drawn poorly but she looks older too - the PG of youthfulness is gone! D:

#45 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@SamRevlon said:

@jrock85 said:

@aeka: I don't know a lot of female comic book readers, personally; but the few I do know do not have eating disorders, over-exercise, or constantly go under the knife in hopes of looking like Power Girl or Starfire. In fact, most women don't go to those extremes for the sake of attaining an ideal body image. Now, I understand that there are many young women out there who struggle with self-image--and my heart goes out to them--but this problem has little to nothing to do with comics.

If DC was really about representing females of all body types, then surely we'd be seeing more body types that aren't thin physically fit females with a small hint of muscle tone.

You'd like to see an overweight female hero?

Awe, hey now, she doesn't have to be overweight but she could have rocking curves or just be an overall voluptuous woman. Like how Pamela Isley has been drawn more thickly as of late. I didn't have a personal probably with the boob window, in fact I've seen a few girls dress as such [maybe not a leotard] but the current costume sucks. Maybe she was just drawn poorly but she looks older too - the PG of youthfulness is gone! D:

No. Seriously I hate this argument so much. If heroes aren't at their peak physical condition they're likely to get their asses handed to them by villains who in prison have nothing to do but train. A fat, curvy, overweight hero is a dead one.

#46 Posted by SamRevlon (134 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

No. Seriously I hate this argument so much. If heroes aren't at their peak physical condition they're likely to get their asses handed to them by villains who in prison have nothing to do but train. A fat, curvy, overweight hero is a dead one.

Nah, not necessarily - though most of the time if their running around being heroes that sorta keeps them fit. Not every villain is exactly what you call in shape either, physicality does play a role, but not to the extremes you make it.

#47 Edited by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@aeka said:

@jrock85: Wow dude, you have not listened to a single thing I've said. I'm not talking about individual preferences or individual cases. I'm talking about American cultural and societal values, and how these get reflected in a lot of media (comics count as media) in both explicit and subtle ways. The message doesn't have to be explicit for it to be there. My points were not about what individual people define as sexy, my points were about what American culture and society says is sexy, and this does influence how men and women both perceive themselves and one another, how they're socialised, how they experience life, and this even influences their behaviour and their attitudes towards a wide variety of things, which does get reflected (both subtly and explicitly) in the works they produce, including comics. When it comes to body image, American society has more rigid standards for women than for men, which again, gets reiterated in the media.

Even if you (I'm assuming you're male) don't pick up on any of the sexism, misogyny, or other negative messages that are present in American comics, female readers of comics actually do. When they do call attention to these negative messages, their concerns are often dismissed with derailing tactics by both the industry and other comic readers alike, it's insulting. So regardless of whether Power Girl alone makes girls want to chisel their bodies to fit the American ideal, the presence of many sexy-bodied heroines in revealing outfits vs the so very few different-bodied female characters in comics, plus the already pervasive presence of thin models, actresses, etc in other media outlets, makes the message very clear about what is considered "sexy and attractive" in American society, enough to make many women self-aware of their own bodies, both consciously and subconsciously. The point is, this is a very real problem for many American women that manifests itself in many different ways. For further clarification, look up why the thinning of Amanda Waller in the relaunch was controversial. When comic artists go the extra mile to sexualise the body of Power Girl by giving her unnaturally large round breasts for that otherwise thin body, it's insulting to some female comic readers on the grounds that it (a) objectifies the character, and (b) lives up to what American society defines as "sexy" and more specifically what a straight white American male would consider sexy. From the industry's standpoint, Power Girl's sexualisation has very little to do with a real desire on the industry's part to be more inclusive of women of different breast size and more to do with would appeal to a largely male readership. The fact that males in comics are depicted as bulking with muscle has very little to do with what female readers consider sexy and more to do with male power imagery, and even moreso in a medium that primarily targets male readers. Hence why I called out false equivalence.

And because I've now exhausted myself in this conversation and you've already demonstrated you're just going to keep dismissing my points, I'll settle for giving you recommendations that thoroughly examine the aforementioned issues: (1) Look up Jean Kilbourne's Killing Us Softly series for a better understanding of female depiction in the media and the harmful effects it has on women's self-image, (2) Mary Pipher's Reviving Ophelia for a better understanding of how American cultural values contribute the lowering of female self-esteem, and Shortpacked's comic that specifically addresses the issue of false equivalence in comics.

So very well written. Thank you.

Seriously, lets just take comics for what they are: a form of art and entertainment, nothing more.

#48 Posted by SC (13203 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85 said:

Seriously, lets just take comics for what they are: a form of art and entertainment, nothing more.

 
Who are your top five favorite writers if I could ask? Since I know some of your favorite characters (lol) were established by writers whose view of comics and what they could be were dramatically different from the idea that they are just entertainment.  
 
Can't we just take comics seriously as fulfilling whatever people chose to hold them as? Who otherwise gets to decide what they are for and why should anyone else fall into that line of thinking? 
Moderator
#49 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Currently my type five in no particular order:

  1. PAD
  2. Scott Snyder
  3. Kyle Higgins
  4. Peter Tomasi
  5. Marjorie Liu

Honorable mentions: Fabian Nicieza, and Gail Simone

As you know (lol), I rant all the time about stuff I don't like in comics, but I'm not so emotionally invested in them that they influence how I perceive the world around me, nor do I think its good to be that emotionally invested in something so trivial.

#50 Posted by SC (13203 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85:  Ah well PAD for example lays on heavy amounts of social issues and loves to point out flaws in comics and also parallel his writing to what's going on in the real world, past and present. He is the first to blog about comics in the same way the poster you quoted did? Do you get what I am saying?  
 
People can intellectually invest in things instead of emotionally invest in them. Do you consider that angle? Since often its not about being influenced by the comic, but recognizing the affects of comics and other media and the also what symptoms create many of the problems and criticisms in comics. Acknowledging such things isn't just good generally but specifically comics and improving them. PAD again being a good example, because he over deconstructs traditional aspects of comics and subverts them. 
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