So is being attractive a crime?

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#1 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I'm obviously NOT a girl, so I obviously have a bias when it comes to....well....physical attraction. However, considering the slaughtering some characters get from feminazis, I really have to wonder, is it bad for a female character to be attractive?

Look at Power Girl's awful redesign: it's generic and just plain bland. She looks like some knockoff parody character. I'm sorry to admit it, but her defining physically feature was......her boobs. Now, I'm not asking for comic females to all have their girly bits hanging out like cows at a farm. At the same time, is it really bad for a girl to have big boobs? Why is that a crime? Some girls, whether they want them or not, develop really large breasts. Are you trying to insinuate that big chested girls are whores? I'm sure there are many sweet, "conservative", and modest girls who....have been blessed with big chests.

I understand that girls may be offended by overly sexual imagery concerning females, and that's fine. I'm a guy, and I don't appreciate that stuff 'cuz of my beliefs.

#2 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

They turned Power Girl into a physical clone of Supergirl, basically. Which was really dumb in my opinion... It could just be the person currently drawing her, though, because compare how she looked at the end of the Huntress miniseries, she looked fine. Not quite the same as before reboot, but still very "Power Girl". Now... for whatever reason, they went and nerfed her appearance. The art from the "Past" version of the story is better, but it's still clearly not PG. Apparently they're so afraid of more backlash after what happened at the beginning of the reboot, that they went and not only covered her up from head to toe, but also shrunk her figure down. No longer is she luscious and curvy. Now, she's just like every other heroine out there. It simply boggles my mind.

Also, her face is having an extreme tendency to look very mannish, in the "Present" part of the story. Good god I hope she gets a better artist soon.

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

who cares 

#4 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: obviously, some people do. While appearance isn't the only part of a character, it is one part, and people can discuss it just as much as they can anything else regarding a character. It's a free country and we're allowed to voice our opinions. That's what this is, an opinion. If you don't care, you don't have to respond to the topic.

#5 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ravager4 said:

@spiderbat87: obviously, some people do. While appearance isn't the only part of a character, it is one part, and people can discuss it just as much as they can anything else regarding a character. It's a free country and we're allowed to voice our opinions. That's what this is, an opinion. If you don't care, you don't have to respond to the topic.

I didn't have to but I wanted to, like you said, free country 
#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24875 posts) - - Show Bio

Who knew losing the Tit window would piss so many people off? (That's rhetorical we all knew all the people who've never touched a boob before would freak)

#7 Posted by JSAVen (100 posts) - - Show Bio

Funny moment with P.G and the JLI

everybody was mind controled and doing crazy things.

#8 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: you do realize that the boob window has nothing to do with it, right? Well, not for me, anyway. I can't vouch for other people. I'm perfectly fine with covering it up if they really feel the need to, but not only did they cover it up, they gave her an obscenely ugly costume to do so with, and then also changed her actual figure to go along with it. Why was all that necessary? I liked that PG looked different than Supergirl. She wasn't a complete copy, she had her own unique look to her. It wasn't just the big chest, she was a bit fuller, more "meaty", if you will. She had curves. She wasn't another super thin heroine with flat abs, and as far as appearances go, it was nice. I also loved how she knew that about herself, which led to quite comedic moments in her solo series. But all that is gone now.

#9 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's bad to have all female characters like that, but I certainly am not for the vast majority of female characters being the sexy type. It's actually always been a pet peeve of mine. I always wished there were at least some female super heroes that weren't... so.... "filled out"

#10 Posted by Vincent92 (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

@joshmightbe: you do realize that the boob window has nothing to do with it, right? Well, not for me, anyway. I can't vouch for other people. I'm perfectly fine with covering it up if they really feel the need to, but not only did they cover it up, they gave her an obscenely ugly costume to do so with, and then also changed her actual figure to go along with it. Why was all that necessary? I liked that PG looked different than Supergirl. She wasn't a complete copy, she had her own unique look to her. It wasn't just the big chest, she was a bit fuller, more "meaty", if you will. She had curves. She wasn't another super thin heroine with flat abs, and as far as appearances go, it was nice. I also loved how she knew that about herself, which led to quite comedic moments in her solo series. But all that is gone now.

this^, plus the fact i think dc wanted to do something different with her figure, i prefer the older loo my self sense she looked different from other woman in comics, it is just how they amada waller in the recent suicde squad book

#11 Edited by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

I could've sworn PG looking varying levels of different depending on the artist was a thing with her? Like, her hair is barely ever the same between two different artists. 
 
How is the interior art in World's Finest?

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4: I'm mainly referring to the basement dwellers who act like DC violated their girlfriend with the costume change

#13 Edited by BlackArmor (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

I don't know who that is in the second picture but that isn't Power Girl......it just can't be........

#14 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12845 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm guessing Kara is thinner so that her being an adult Supergirl would make more sense?

#15 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: she's not just and "adult" Supergirl... She's from an alternate universe. Where, you know, things are vastly different.

#16 Posted by LoganRogue24 (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

in my opion amanda conner drew pg the best it was sexy yet tastefull.

#17 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@LoganRogue24: my favorite version as well

#18 Posted by LoganRogue24 (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree with jointron 33 he or she brings up good points. i hope amanda conner can draw pg again someday i heard a rumor that her and jimmy dose not like the new design for pg much.

#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Ravager4: I'm mainly referring to the basement dwellers who act like DC violated their girlfriend with the costume change

.......Don't make me pull this water pipe off the wall and get out this basement and go all ape on you butt. Seriously though, there's a thread on this sight about if Hulk should be lean or bulky, if Wolverine should be tall or short, if Batman should be tall or short, if Batman should be buff or lean, this is the exact same thing Power Girl just happens to be well a girl, and just like someone can have a favorite Batman costume or can prefer Martian Manhunter to not have that black shirt under his red X someone preferring the chest window Power Girl suit is nothing to be looked down on any more or less. Whether the person who prefers her to have that body type is a 60 year old virgin who lives in their parents basement or a rich 20 year old who practically has a harem or even is a a woman it really doesn't matter and is not a reason to condescend to them about their preferences. Lets face it we all have spent more than 100 dollars to follow soap opera about fictional characters, we all spend hours of our time on a website to discuss what is practically the most nerdy medium in the world we all need to show some civility for our fellow nerds. I can agree that people (including myself) are overreacting but I'm tired of people's response to this topic not only being dismissive but plain out snide

And before you ask if my somewhat passionate response is because I live in a basement, no it's not I don't live in a basement I'm just sick of us not being mature enough to have 1 thread about Power Girl without assuming that everyone who commented is somebody from the Big Bang Theory

#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24875 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: I know some people have valid complaints about her new outfit but those sane rational arguments are pretty much drowned out by the crazy folks most of the time

#21 Posted by BlackArmor (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@BlackArmor: I know some people have valid complaints about her new outfit but those sane rational arguments are pretty much drowned out by the crazy folks most of the time

I can agree with that, I also admit to occasionally being one of those crazy folks, not because I don't actually have a valid reason but because it's really fun to overreact and posting 5 minute videos of people screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO". But at this point your right it's time for cooler heads to prevail

#22 Posted by Darkmount1 (1271 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: What's wrong with the second picture? I don't see anything off.

#23 Posted by BlackArmor (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Darkmount1: There have always been several major issues personality wise and physically speaking between PG and Supergirl. The second picture is disturbing because PG is completely devoid of her most instantly recognizable difference from Supergirl.

#24 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Power Girl should have big boobs. It's hard to judge the costume from such bad drawing. I'd settle for the costume if she were drawn better and had big boobs.

#25 Posted by The Stegman (23745 posts) - - Show Bio

The costume isn't THAT bad, and honestly, to me, it's not the clothes that make the character, but rather their personality and actions, if she is still the Powergirl I know and love, i could care less what she's wearing.

#26 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

How can people be so upset that she now has covered her breasts? Don't give me this "unnecessary redesign" or "women are beautiful and should be able to show themselves" crap. Other characters like Storm have gone through changes and nobody said anything. Focus on the dang character and not how much cleavage she is now showing

#27 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz: did you even read some of the more reasonable discussion on the matter ? if you did, you'd know that her cleavage has nothing to do with it. or did that just go right over your head?

#28 Edited by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

@Kallarkz: did you even read some of the more reasonable discussion on the matter ? if you did, you'd know that her cleavage has nothing to do with it. or did that just go right over your head?

I'm referencing the comments of the individuals who are talking directly about her boobs.

Or did you ignore those comments?

When you pay for my internet connection you can dictate to whom I respond

#29 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz: well, when you come into a topic and start spouting off at just "people", without trying to differentiate to whom you're speaking, it just comes across as referring to everyone in the topic. If that's not what you meant then I apologize for inferring it that way.

#30 Edited by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

Just read Earth-2 and World's Finest. The design is fine, Perez's art is just kinda shaky here. Is the main complaint here the fact that she's nothing like Conner, Palmiotti & Gray's PG series?

#31 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

And also, there's nothing wrong with guys liking characters drawn with big boobs. What they do with said pictures can be....questionable, but the attraction part is natural.

#32 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

I just think her new costume is a terrible redesign. Something along these lines would have been better imo.

#33 Posted by Darkmount1 (1271 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Look, the way I see it, and this is coming from a guy who has NOT picked up any of the New 52, let Perez get some elbow room so he can improve as the book continues. Give it time.

#34 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz: I said PG should have big boobs, not that they should be uncovered. Her yellow/white costume showed off her boobs yet it completely covered them, because you can't hide boobs under spandex. Are you criticizing us for wanting her to have big boobs or for wanting her to show cleavage?

#35 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerGirlFan said:

@Kallarkz: I said PG should have big boobs, not that they should be uncovered. Her yellow/white costume showed off her boobs yet it completely covered them, because you can't hide boobs under spandex. Are you criticizing us for wanting her to have big boobs or for wanting her to show cleavage?

What does big boobs add to an individual? Specifically.

#36 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

^ What else would you like big boobs to add besides bigger boob size? Sex appeal, for one thing. They make her stand out as an individual, physically. Or don't you think that our physical bodies and features thereof are part of who we individually are?

Listen, PG is a COMIC BOOK character, so we don't need a reason for her to have big boobs and there is no reason to object to her having big boobs.

But let's go through all of the objections. (1) "It sexually objectifies her." Then you must feel sorry for women who are have big boobs in real life. (2) "It stops her from being taken seriously." It doesn't stop Red Sonja, Catwoman, The Ghost, Witchblade, Starfire etc. from being taken seriously. (3) "Only fanboys who have never touched a real girl like comic characters with big boobs." So once a guy touches boobs the first time, he stops liking boobs? (4) "The character is important, not her boob size". Yes the character is important but she can have big boobs as well. Physical traits are part of a comic character anyway.

Do we all feel better now?

#37 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@azza04: Who is that? She is very nicely drawn. She could lose the cowl from that costume.

#38 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

How can people be so upset that she now has covered her breasts? Don't give me this "unnecessary redesign" or "women are beautiful and should be able to show themselves" crap. Other characters like Storm have gone through changes and nobody said anything. Focus on the dang character and not how much cleavage she is now showing

Its not so much that her breasts are covered, its the fact that their being covered by a costume that many people don't like. Comics are a visual medium, so of course fans are going to complain when they don't like what they're seeing. At the end of the day, its all a matter of personal preference and nothing that we should shout at each other about.

#39 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

^ Even if somebody does complain about PG's costume because it covers her boobs, it's not a reason for anybody to shout at him. So what if some people like the cleavage window in her previous costume, or want one in her new costume?

#40 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerGirlFan: It's Lucy Lane from the New Krypton arc when she gained Kryptonian powers.

#41 Posted by DorianOtten (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@jointron33: The change to her appearance isn't just the boobs; she's also much leaner than before. she was once more muscular. why has no-one mentioned that. i mean i'm not a particular fan of the char or muscular ladies specifically but i do find DC's caving to pressure and making her less... provocative kinda pitiful. And as far as it being disrespectful to women, that's a load of horse sh*te. I have enough girl cousins, girlfriends and girl friends to know that girls/women (i'm 23 so its weird to say women) are just as superficial as the rest of us, im not saying that that's a good thing but it is a thing. I also find it funny that people are complaining about this and not the fact that hher only appearance is as some C-lister's booty call
#42 Edited by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

^ In World's Finest she looks leaner in the upper body than Conner drew her, but Basri and Prasetya drew her leaner too, as did artists before Conner. She looks more muscular in Mr. T. What do you mean "her only appearance"? Aside from her other appearances in Mr T, she appeared in Huntress #6, Earth 2 and World's Finest.

#43 Edited by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

Do away with the boob window, but keep the curvy figure and the long thighs. Plus the blue gloves and boots, white long sleeved leotard with the red cape and the gold accessories.

DCnU changes have pissed me off, but I'm a bit indifferent about this one. Irritated, but not angry.

#44 Posted by RedVelvet (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I was annoyed at first but now that I've actually read how she's being written... I don't mind so much. It's Power Girl and she's back.

#45 Posted by LoganRogue24 (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

i hope its the power girl we fell in love with.

#46 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as she is still power girl deep down overall, idc.

#47 Posted by wondergirl246 (27 posts) - - Show Bio

My two cents:

Costume redesigns on decades-old characters are by default, risky territory. Heroes are defined by their costumes. Even if the redesign is objectively more practical (remove Batman's pointy ears) people will rightfully complain that the character "just isn't the same". It's futile arguing about what looks better, since a glance outside is all it takes to know that everyone has their own idea of what clothing looks good and what doesn't.

I don't like the new powergirl costume, both because I think the old outfit looks better and because I don't see a point to changing it; there isn't much difference in utility or practicality.

I hope that the motivation was not that the old costume led to objectification, because that would seem to me a fool's errand. We're supposed to objectify comic book characters. That's half the point. There's a reason why Superman doesn't have a beer gut.

These are idealized godlike creatures. The artist has to convey through their appearance that these are radiant, powerful individuals.

To this end, being physically attractive is important for both male and female characters. However because of our culture, it is more important for female ones. This is because sexiness translates to power much more for a woman than it does for a man.

When you close your eyes and think of a powerful man, he is probably attractive, but the things that connote power are more his athleticism and craft - what he seems to be able to do.

When you close your eyes and think of a powerful woman, she is probably very attractive and not overly muscular. Imagine a female body-builder. Now imagine a sexy model. Who seems more powerful? I certainly know who I'd rather be.

An attractive guy working at Mcdonalds has no chance with a wealthy female businesswoman who comes in to order lunch. Reverse the genders. The attractive woman has a chance.

Sexiness = power for women. That's just how we're wired. Catwoman as a butterface with broad shoulders and huge biceps seems much less intimidating than slender Selina with her suit zipper at her navel.

None of this is to argue that all heroines should traipse around in pasties and thongs; Indeed what made Haley Atwell so memorable in the Captain America film was her classiness - that she knew how to dress and act like a lady while being a soldier.

Would that more heroines had her class. There are more than a few heroines out there with inexplicably trashy costumes. Even still, I'm hesitant to agree with changing them in the name of not objectifying women.

#48 Posted by BatWatch (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

I dislike feminist nonsense as a general rule, but if a woman points out that it is deragatory to have a woman primarily defined by her gigantic bosom, I have to agree. Women are often as sexual eye candy in comics. That is not always their only purpose, but it is pretty much always one of their main purposes, and I think that's messed up.

#49 Posted by PowerGirlFan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: If a female comic has a gigantic bosom, it is not inherently derogatory or intended as her sole defining feature. However, a gigantic bosom unavoidably is sexual eye candy, regardless of the intent. In the real world, some women are born to have gigantic bosoms, so it's not a derogatory thing by itself, any more than is any other sexually attractive physical feature.

#50 Posted by Protoon (99 posts) - - Show Bio

@wondergirl246: That is a very intelligent critique. I have to say I find the asymmetry between genders that you point out quite upsetting, but you're spot on. I just wish things were different.

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