Why the hell is Ivy a villain?

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#1 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist, but she has TOTAL anti hero potential. People will probably respond to me saying she hates all humans, but many of her actions prove otherwise. I mean, she almost sacrificed her life to save her orphans, and I remember reading a comic where she used her powers to help a starved village. And she doesn;t want to destroy mankind, she just wants to create harmony between humans and plants. I am boycotting everything Batman until DC makes Ivy an anti hero! Not saying she should be a goody-goody hero, but she should DEFINATLEY be an antihero.

#2 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you read Hush? She's not that innocent and she's definitely not an anti-hero type. She only cares for her plants, forgetting that not everyone is evil. She's so wackadoodle...

#3 Posted by The Poet (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: you do know she's been a villain since her first appearence in 1966, right?

I mean, I see your point, but she's been a villain for so long it seems unlikely she will change just over night...

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#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33456 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't she joining Birds of Prey?

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#5 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2317 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Isn't she joining Birds of Prey?

Yup lol she is the fourth member

I think they are trying to revamp poison ivy since she has kind of hit a road block as a character, aside from her bond with harley she hasn't done too much development wise

But she was amazing in batman TAS lol

#6 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: She cared for her orphans because she related to them through her own troubled childhood, she likely felt as young as they were  they were no threat to the environmental and she actually opened up and let herself care for them. 
 
She's a villain though, she has moments where her selfishness comes off like an anti hero however, like when she killed a corrupt GCPD cop for killing on of the orphan. 
#7 Posted by GREGalicious (476 posts) - - Show Bio

She's a villain because of her complete disreguard for human life (except for maybe HARLEY). Until she can get over that, she'll always fall into villainy.

#8 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13175 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist, but she has TOTAL anti hero potential. People will probably respond to me saying she hates all humans, but many of her actions prove otherwise. I mean, she almost sacrificed her life to save her orphans, and I remember reading a comic where she used her powers to help a starved village. And she doesn;t want to destroy mankind, she just wants to create harmony between humans and plants. I am boycotting everything Batman until DC makes Ivy an anti hero! Not saying she should be a goody-goody hero, but she should DEFINATLEY be an antihero.

she is an anti-hero now. she's joining the Birds Of Prey soon

#9 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe her willingness to kill innocent people is why she's a villain, sure sometimes she's gunning for people that deserve it but a lot of the people she hurts are innocent bystanders

#10 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr:

Yes, I have read Hush, and I never said she was innocent. In fact, she is incredibly dangerous and if she werre to become an anti hero, she would arguable be even more dangerous than punisher and/or rorschach. And what about what about that one issue where she used her powers to help a starved village?

#11 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: what about the hundreds of issues where she hurt many innocents for her own ends? Even Punisher makes sure the people he takes out are bad people and wouldn't risk the lives of hundreds of bystanders to get one bad guy

#12 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

magneto kills hundreds off innocent people, and he is an anti hero in my mind as well. I do admit Ivy has commited her fair share of attrocities, but I wouldn;t say she;s completely evil which in my mind is the requirememnt for being a villain. I think she should go through a huge revelation before becoming an anti hero though.

#13 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: IMO I don't care what anyone says Magneto is a villain, he's a hate mongering, murderer and him being part of the xmen now makes them all hypocrites because he stands against every value the xmen were built upon

#14 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

I disagree. Magneto was abused, hated and mistreated all his life as a mutant. All he was trying to do was achieve equality for a group that had been facing oppression their whole lives. Do I agree with his methods? hell no! But I don't consider him a evil villain much less a "hate mongering murderer"

#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: So you're saying having a rough life justifies murder and terrorism?

#16 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

No. I'm saying that Magneto's overrall goal of achieving mutant equality is just, and if he's willing to use extreme acts of violence to do it, I totally disagree but I understand why he is doing it. Look, I get your point and I understand it, but I respectfully disagree. It's been a pleasure debating with you.

#17 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

Ivy has a history of living children, though, remember.

Ivy has a lot of potential with her message, but there are still plenty of considerations to take in with her.

And she is one of those villains whose fall to darkness might easily be attributable to Batman himself... it has been touched upon before, but I see the inevitable conclusion of Ivy's story coming into compromise with Bruce's understanding of her beliefs... in much the same way that Bruce allowed Harvey to make a turn towards heroism.

#18 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: Magneto doesn't want equality he wants mutant supremacy, and in point of fact is most of the reason most people hate and fear mutants. If you know your Xmen history you'll know that Magneto was really the first mutant that the world at large had ever seen and knew for a fact was a mutant, so they had yet to start doing things like building sentinels and registration acts. Maybe if he had come out peacefully instead of introducing the world to mutants by attempting to fling missiles at people mutant relations wouldn't be as bad as they are and maybe things like zero tolerance and decimation wouldn't have happened.

#19 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

Right, because he was totally flinging missles at him when he was a kid, when his entire family was murdered by nazis. And he was TOTALLY fligning missles at people when his baby daughter was brutally murdered. Thoughn it;s easy to say "I would never be like Magneto" the truth is, if I had been through the stuff Magneto went through, and the opression he went through, I would be using acts of violence and terrorism as well. Why? Because in my eyes, it would be the only way out.

#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: I'm not talking about his early life and that had nothing to do with him being a mutant, most people didn't even know what a mutant was at that point, I'm referring to his decision to blame all of humanity for the actions of the Nazi's and formally introducing the world to mutants as something to be feared. If humans had struck first against mutants I'd be on his side but no he decided to start a war. Many people suffered at the hands of Nazis without using it as an excuse to spread more hate.

#21 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Violence isn't a way out but leads to more violence. I hate when they make Villains good because it detracts from the hero by thinning their bad guy roster.

#22 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: I think that sometimes she shows some potential as an anti-hero, but most of the times she's a complete villain. Now, I guess I could agree with you, if the writers could present her a little bit different at the current continuity. Perhaps, I could see her as an anti-hero, but one must be very cautious while handling Batman's villains. Unlike to other villains, all his enemies have a unique personality, that makes them so interesting. I'll have to give you that though...it could be interesting - Ivy as an anti-hero, I mean -.

#23 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@gravitypress:

Then does that make Ghost Rider, Punisher, Jason Todd e.t.c villains?

#24 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just referring to this line.

"Because in my eyes, it would be the only way out."

Magnito is as much of a hero as Apocalypse.

#25 Edited by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure about GR or Jason Todd but Punisher is a wanted man. If Marvel had the death penalty Punisher would get it. Not that I think he or Magnito are bad characters they just arent good guys and would never be.

#26 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting question. 
 
Ivy has definitely walked the thin line between anti-hero and villain. She's the rare case of having a desire not motivated by selfishness - if you compare her to other Batman villains. For example, Joker kills people and messes with Batman for the lulz (although in the Killing Joke he wanted to prove a point). Penguin wants to run the city. Killer Croc ... well, he just wants to kill Batman. Riddler wants to prove he is better than Batman. 
 
Then you look at Ivy, she's all about plantation and her hatred of humanity for desolating the world. What is interesting is that Ivy is one of the only villains that Bruce actually has sympathy for. Against so many of his other villains, Bruce really gets pissed off in his typical Batman persona/growl. Whereas with Ivy, he is quite sympathetic. If you have read One Year Later: Face the Face, he understands where Ivy is coming from, but disagrees with the way she is going about it. 
 
I think she would be brilliant as an Anti-Hero. She's done the villain thing and it worked for her for a while, but now she needs to work on her own. Maybe go down a Red Hood road and kill some completely unlawful characters. 
 
Or she can go and lay one on Supergirl again. *Smirks*

#27 Posted by ivy's creation (47 posts) - - Show Bio

boys boys please! originally when she first got her powers, and even before, she saw that it was her job to return the world back into a paradise where plants thrived and humans and plants coexisted. however, she ditched that after realizing mankind in general was remaining ignorant. she feels that humans have had their chance at redemption so she has dedicated her life to protecting plants at all costs. she beliefs are noble its just not practical in our society sadly, especially gotham

#28 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist, but she has TOTAL anti hero potential. People will probably respond to me saying she hates all humans, but many of her actions prove otherwise. I mean, she almost sacrificed her life to save her orphans, and I remember reading a comic where she used her powers to help a starved village. And she doesn;t want to destroy mankind, she just wants to create harmony between humans and plants. I am boycotting everything Batman until DC makes Ivy an anti hero! Not saying she should be a goody-goody hero, but she should DEFINATLEY be an antihero.

GTFO

.@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@joshmightbe:

I disagree. Magneto was abused, hated and mistreated all his life as a mutant. All he was trying to do was achieve equality for a group that had been facing oppression their whole lives. Do I agree with his methods? hell no! But I don't consider him a evil villain much less a "hate mongering murderer"

Who has'nt been abused and mistreated?

#29 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@gravitypress:

Then does that make Ghost Rider, Punisher, Jason Todd e.t.c villains?

Jason in many of his showings has been portrayed as a villian,even Winick himself said so.

#30 Posted by _Marco_Smith_ (1621 posts) - - Show Bio

Because writers write her as the villain?

#31 Edited by daredevil21134 (11840 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@gravitypress:

Then does that make Ghost Rider, Punisher, Jason Todd e.t.c villains?

Jason in many of his showings has been portrayed as a villian,even Winick himself said so.

Winick calls him a bad guy because he kills and you of all people shouldn't take anything he says seriously lol

#32 Posted by 0xymoron (173 posts) - - Show Bio

I place Ivy in the same category as Magneto. While he wants what's best for mutant-kind, she wants what's best for plant-life and there both willing to go through extreme measures to make it possible. While I understand her intentions, she tends to go about them in the more aggressive way. I've never considered Ivy a villain, more so just a women with a noble cause that no one cares about so she has to take matters into her own hands.

#33 Posted by ARMIV2 (8532 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as I've known her character to be portrayed, she's always been absolutely willing to "sacrifice" human lives to save some flowers or such. The disregard for human life is what puts her in the villain category, as stated previously.

#34 Posted by busterblader (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Two pages in and no mention of Gotham city sirens? For the last year Ivy has been a "good guy" for lack of a better word working with Selina and Harley. Like most of the main rouge galley during the Dick Grayson as batman run it was an excuse to get them out of the way so new villains better suited to Dick could be brought in, but the story like the no-mans land orphans proves your point Ivy is only has bad has the world she sees around her. If she's distracted by friends or survival she can be a great help. Unfortunately when left with nothing better to do she focuses on the evils of development until she snaps and kills the people she sees has being responsible

#35 Posted by Samimista (20717 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr said:

Have you read Hush? She's not that innocent and she's definitely not an anti-hero type. She only cares for her plants, forgetting that not everyone is evil. She's so wackadoodle...

Agreed.

#36 Edited by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually during the Cataclysm in Gotham she did become a hero. She took care of orphans as they were her children. She even sacrificed her powers to save one. The people of Gotham want her away from the children forcing her to return to villainy. She returned from the dead when crocked cop kill one of her children.

#37 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hazlenaut: She didn't become a hero, she became a mother there's a difference. She took the children in as she related her past to theirs she didn't care about every citizen of Gotham she cared about the 16 orphans. And she was effectively a villain as she refused to leave the park, despite it belonging to the city.Also she was a villain still before the death of an orphan at a corrupt G.C.P.D officer's hands as she was involved in the plot by Hush and Riddler so that argument of her being forced back into villainy is inaccurate. 
#38 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

The moment you oppose a hero you're a villian,simple.

#39 Posted by Aqua11500 (2647 posts) - - Show Bio

If Eric and do it,so can she.

#40 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist, but she has TOTAL anti hero potential. People will probably respond to me saying she hates all humans, but many of her actions prove otherwise. I mean, she almost sacrificed her life to save her orphans, and I remember reading a comic where she used her powers to help a starved village. And she doesn;t want to destroy mankind, she just wants to create harmony between humans and plants. I am boycotting everything Batman until DC makes Ivy an anti hero! Not saying she should be a goody-goody hero, but she should DEFINATLEY be an antihero.

GTFO

.@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@joshmightbe:

I disagree. Magneto was abused, hated and mistreated all his life as a mutant. All he was trying to do was achieve equality for a group that had been facing oppression their whole lives. Do I agree with his methods? hell no! But I don't consider him a evil villain much less a "hate mongering murderer"

Who has'nt been abused and mistreated?

Not to mention that Erik doesn't want equality, he wants supremacy. 
#41 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

The moment you oppose a hero you're a villian,simple.

Damn comics logic.
#42 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: if being a was real mutant and magneto didnt abandon his beliefs like a loser i would be on his side

#43 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Poet:

I get your point. But hey, if Doctor Doom and Venom can reform after all those years, so can she.

#44 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@0xymoron:

I agree. One of the better posts! Great job.

#45 Posted by Larkin1388 (1760 posts) - - Show Bio

@EnSabahNurX: When is she supposed to join Birds of Prey?

#46 Posted by cody1984 (1279 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist,

Right there you answered your own question.

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

@joshmightbe:

magneto kills hundreds off innocent people, and he is an anti hero in my mind as well. I do admit Ivy has commited her fair share of attrocities, but I wouldn;t say she;s completely evil which in my mind is the requirememnt for being a villain. I think she should go through a huge revelation before becoming an anti hero though.

Magneto at most is an antivillain you can probably make the same claim about Poison Ivy but she is no antihero.

#47 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@cody1984:

Hero who uses questionable beliefs=antihero. If Red Hood is an antihero so is Ivy, and also Magneto.

#48 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (6482 posts) - - Show Bio

@Larkin1388:

I think she already joined. yay.

#49 Posted by wildvine (9659 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 said:

Seriously! I mean yeah she is an eco-terrorist, but she has TOTAL anti hero potential. People will probably respond to me saying she hates all humans, but many of her actions prove otherwise. I mean, she almost sacrificed her life to save her orphans, and I remember reading a comic where she used her powers to help a starved village. And she doesn;t want to destroy mankind, she just wants to create harmony between humans and plants. I am boycotting everything Batman until DC makes Ivy an anti hero! Not saying she should be a goody-goody hero, but she should DEFINATLEY be an antihero.

I agree with everything you have said

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#50 Posted by MTHarman (725 posts) - - Show Bio

I mostly prefer her as a villain.

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