33 Comments
Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

Using a Japanese character in China is just insulting

Posted by inferiorego
Staff
Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

@inferiorego: It reminds me of Avengers #11 when they were in Hong Kong and all the characters on the cover where cleary dressed in Japanese style gear. It just reinforces the "all asians are alike" trope.

Posted by MannEffest

Wow, um, I haven't even listened to the podcast, but that cover sure is an attention grabber…

Edited by NightFang

@manneffest said:

Wow, um, I haven't even listened to the podcast, but that cover sure is an attention grabber…

I don't even know what i'm looking at.

Edited by G-Man

full size image

Staff
Posted by timelord

@g_man

This is the reading order for Doomed from Greg Paks Tumbler

MAY

1. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #1

2 .ACTION COMICS #31

3. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #8

4. BATMAN/SUPERMAN #11

5. SUPERMAN #31

JUNE

6. ACTION COMICS #32 We are here

7. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #9

JULY

8. ACTION COMICS #33

9. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #10

10. ACTION COMICS ANNUAL

11. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN ANNUAL

AUGUST

12. ACTION COMICS #34

13. SUPERGIRL #34

14. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #11

15. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #2

A massive cross over

Edited by GrenadeFlow

Bendis basically let the Ultimate Captain America replacement character known in the Marvel.com Cataclysm live chat. The replacement character is overexposed so I'm not really interested in her. It was also kinda obvious when she picked up his shield at the end of the event.

Edited by ScarletBatman

Weekly comics fit the cultural zeitgeist of an era where people binge on entire seasons of TV shows, rather than watching them week to week, like they would have in the past. The masses want to get their story as fast as possible. Comics are traditionally monthly, which is an agonizingly slow pace (especially for something that amounts to 20 pages of content to be released). Weekly titles are a superior model if the goal is to rejigger the industry to meet the expectations of the consumers.

If the title is too difficult to keep up with, then just save up four issues and read them in one go. It would be like reading a short TPB once a month (which is a completely legitimate reading method).

I, personally, believe the industry really needs a good shaking up. It cannot rely solely on the old tried and true methods. New models and new ideas must be brought to the fore to keep the industry healthy and vibrant.

Beyond that, we all know so-called B & C list heroes cannot sustain their own solo titles, and often times cannot sustain a team book either. That is a HUGE problem for both DC and Marvel. A weekly book is basically four books that have an over-arching theme, set of characters and plot. If you can take a handful of B and C list characters and put them into a Weekly title (that is anchored by a big name hero) then you are effectively creating four books that sell far and away more units than any single character could alone. Even if Eternal settles around 50k a month, that would still be 5x better than Batwing and at least 2x as successful as any other B- and C-list character being utilized in Eternal.

DC is effectively printing money for itself by creating a weekly title as compared to four low selling solo/team titles.

@jonny_anonymous said:

Using a Japanese character in China is just insulting

No more insulting than an American going to China to beat up Chinese gangsters.

Additionally, there is no Batman of China. The focus of this issue was introducing the character who was scaling the building in the last issue. Since there has not been an established Chinese Batman in the New 52, the sudden appearance of such a character would have pulled focus away from the new woman. Jiro was a cameo who, honestly, was there for fan service more than anything else. He contributed little to the story that Bruce could not have learned in other ways. He is window dressing meant to make the world feel more connected than it otherwise would have been.

Having said that, I am sure they would not have spent all that time introducing Jiro unless he was going to become an important part of the story. Why else did they go to the cave and introduce Jiro's supporting cast? Sure it can be labeled as fan service but they dedicated several pages to it, pages that could have been used to expand on the fight scenes (i.e. the classic give exposition during a heated combat trope). Additionally, they could have used any other BInc-er with the same flimsy pretext for his/her presence in Hong Kong.

They chose Jiro for a reason. We will probably find out why in 20 or 30 issues. :)

EDIT: My real question is why did they choose Hong Kong instead of a Japanese city? Was Falcone established to be in Hong Kong at some point in the New 52? Perhaps the surprise character will become the new Black Bat (i.e. Batman of Hong Kong). Although I feel like, as per Batman 28, she may become the new Alfred. Perhaps even on a more permanent basis (Alfred is kind of old, maybe its time for him to give up being Penny One and just serve Bruce in a more traditional butler-y manner (if not full blown retirement)).

@jonny_anonymous said:

@inferiorego: It reminds me of Avengers #11 when they were in Hong Kong and all the characters on the cover where cleary dressed in Japanese style gear. It just reinforces the "all asians are alike" trope.

IIRC, Dustin Weaver openly admitted to making a mistake and apologized for it. Lack of lead time was the main culprit (in that they had no time to correct the cover) in addition to Marvel telling him "Asian-inspired" but did not inform him the comic was going to be set in Hong Kong (until after it had been turned in and submitted for solicits).

Posted by BigL

Classic Steve from Canada

Edited by UltimateSMfan

I love Brad Meltzer's Justice league! He always made them seem like a family with all the rich history the characters had with each other pre-52....sigh...

@g_man: Superman really shined IMO in his one year later storyline 'Up,up and away' in which he's adjusting to a powerless life but then slowly gets his powers back with Lex as the antagonist. I think it was the start of Geoff Johns run. One of the really great Superman stories.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@scarletbatman: Considering the relationship between Japan and China as well as how in fiction all asian culture get's lumped together I would say it's slightly worse. But you're right Batman or any American superhero swooping in to another country (especially one as big as China) and saving the day while making all native heroes look like chumps is insulting. At least Marvel countered this idea head on in this weeks issue of Avengers World.

Also It doesn't even need to be a Chinese Batman, they could have used any of the preexisting Chinese heroes, hell there is already an established Hong Kong Batman in Night Dragon.

Posted by Wardishy

Thanks for the recommendations, guys. Since I asked that question I've read Archer's issue 0 and I liked it so I will definitely be picking up Archer and Armstrong. I also like the look of Quantum & Woody and I will give Harbinger a go.

Is Bloodshot any good?

Online
Posted by Mezmero

Thanks for the podcast as always guys. Though I enjoy the occasional tangent I find it a bit disconcerting when you guys go on about your unenlightened users who still don't get how reviews work. I would have rather gotten more of Mat's thoughts on Superior Foes than hear about how insipid some of this community can be. You're preaching to the choir on that one. There's no reaching the learning impaired so I would just drop it if I were you. Thank goodness Corey's back to bring some extra levity to the show. He's totally correct in his notion of a "jump off" or "jumping off" being a positive turn of phrase. Not sure who made that ludicrous urban dictionary entry but I go by how the Wu Tang Clan use it. In their context a "jump off" refers to an inevitable event or situation that can be described as "dope" or "ill" (the positive kind obviously). If you don't believe me it's evident within their famous hit "Gravel Pit". Keep up the great work. It's the jump off so just jump off.

Posted by inferiorego

@mezmero: we're just giving Corey guff.

Bonus points for posting Gravel Pit

Staff
Posted by Mezmero

@inferiorego: Just tryin' to protect ya neck. Comic Vine ain't nothin' to mess with.

Posted by ScarletBatman

@scarletbatman:

Also It doesn't even need to be a Chinese Batman, they could have used any of the preexisting Chinese heroes, hell there is already an established Hong Kong Batman in Night Dragon.

Night-Dragon would have been really cool!

Gah, this is one of the problems with the New 52 - they lost a lot of their cool side characters when they rebooted.

To be honest, I really would like to see a comic set in China. There are so few of those these days (especially ones that do not involve Kung Fu).

Edited by FastestBlender

The Problem: Complaints that Comic Vine ratings are inflated. Currently 91% of the books on the reviews page have 4 or 5 stars. Concurrently, Comic Vine staff find the complaints irritating and desire readers to focus on the written review rather than the star rating. @g_man explains that they select the ~20% of the releases every week to review that they deem are "good books"

The Solution: Do away with ratings and replace them with a title akin to "Comic Vine's picks of the week" at the top of the page featuring reviews. @inferiorego no longer has to struggle between star reviews, it's made apparent that these are the books you want to focus on and readers are left merely with the written review to focus on.

*wipes hands*

Posted by snarkybits

But then the complaints turn into: "tl;dr"

Posted by ScarletBatman

The Problem: Complaints that Comic Vine ratings are inflated. Currently 91% of the books on the reviews page have 4 or 5 stars. Concurrently, Comic Vine staff find the complaints irritating and desire readers to focus on the written review rather than the star rating. @g_man explains that they select the ~20% of the releases every week to review that they deem are "good books"

The Solution: Do away with ratings and replace them with a title akin to "Comic Vine's picks of the week" at the top of the page featuring reviews. @inferiorego no longer has to struggle between star reviews, it's made apparent that these are the books you want to focus on and readers are left merely with the written review to focus on.

*wipes hands*

Except that would mean they can never review a ho-hum or outright bad book.

What really needs to happen is for Comic Vine to come up with a more codified grading system. What is the difference between a three and a four star grade? How I see those and how the reviewer sees those could be radically different. The grading criteria should be set in stone and posted for all to see.

It can be simple as 0-2 stars for art, 0-2 stars for writing and an extra star for that "wow" factor. It can be as complicated as an A-F system with very specific criteria that is then averaged between various reviewers.

I don't mind that Comic Vine has so many high star reviews because, most of the time, they are right-ish. Compare that to CBR, where reviewers routinely give out 1 and 2 stars (and even a few zeroes), which feels 100% arbitrary and spiteful.

I prefer Comic Vine's written system because at least they follow a format (good, bad and verdict), where as many other sites just allow their reviewers to make a four page long diatribe.

Edited by inferiorego

@fastestblender:

Problem: it's the internet and the majority of the people reading want numbered rating.

Solution: clickbait reviews

"You'll never believe what Mat said about Batman #32. The last sentence broke our heart."

Staff
Edited by FastestBlender

@scarletbatman They rarely review a ho hum book and nearly never a bad book currently. They currently pick things they believe has a great potential and thus the worst rating you see is usually a 3. As for revising the rating system, I've been advocating that since I found this site to the point where people have flagged my comments. Tony refuses to do so, citing a cranky webmaster. Allowing 1/2 stars, upping it to a 10 star system, this would elevate a tremendous amount of confusion to the reviews. @inferiorego , wouldn't you enjoy the ability to award 1/2 stars? You can define what those stars mean to you on the podcast till your blue in the face, there's still going to be left brain people who see 3/5 and equate that to 60%, aka a failing grade in American education.

Posted by ZbvmX
@timelord said:

@g_man

This is the reading order for Doomed from Greg Paks Tumbler

MAY

1. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #1

2 .ACTION COMICS #31

3. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #8

4. BATMAN/SUPERMAN #11

5. SUPERMAN #31

JUNE

6. ACTION COMICS #32 We are here

7. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #9

JULY

8. ACTION COMICS #33

9. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #10

10. ACTION COMICS ANNUAL

11. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN ANNUAL

AUGUST

12. ACTION COMICS #34

13. SUPERGIRL #34

14. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #11

15. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #2

A massive cross over

I tried this cross-over thinking that it'd just be 4/5-parter (was originally just reading Supes|WW), but as the events unfold, I'm happily surprised that it turned out to be a massive epic :D Was never really a Superman fan, but this crossover (along with the amazing Supes|WW) changes everything.

Edited by ScarletBatman

@fastestblender:

Problem: it's the internet and the majority of the people reading want numbered rating.

Solution: clickbait reviews

"You'll never believe what Mat said about Batman #32. The last sentence broke our heart."

Hahahaha!

Please never do this.

@scarletbatman They rarely review a ho hum book and nearly never a bad book currently. They currently pick things they believe has a great potential and thus the worst rating you see is usually a 3. As for revising the rating system, I've been advocating that since I found this site to the point where people have flagged my comments. Tony refuses to do so, citing a cranky webmaster. Allowing 1/2 stars, upping it to a 10 star system, this would elevate a tremendous amount of confusion to the reviews. @inferiorego , wouldn't you enjoy the ability to award 1/2 stars? You can define what those stars mean to you on the podcast till your blue in the face, there's still going to be left brain people who see 3/5 and equate that to 60%, aka a failing grade in American education.

Their current system is alright:

1: Do Not Bother
2: Not Worth Buying Unless You Are a Super Fan
3: Ho Hum
4: Pretty Good, Probably Want To Check It Out
5: Buy It

The problem is that it is completely up to the reviewer what those terms mean, rather than it being a more structured system. You do not necessarily need a 10 star system but the 10 stars do lend themselves to a greater assortment of gradation than 5 Stars.

@zbvmx said:
@timelord said:

@g_man

This is the reading order for Doomed from Greg Paks Tumbler

MAY

1. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #1

2 .ACTION COMICS #31

3. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #8

4. BATMAN/SUPERMAN #11

5. SUPERMAN #31

JUNE

6. ACTION COMICS #32 We are here

7. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #9

JULY

8. ACTION COMICS #33

9. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #10

10. ACTION COMICS ANNUAL

11. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN ANNUAL

AUGUST

12. ACTION COMICS #34

13. SUPERGIRL #34

14. SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #11

15. SUPERMAN: DOOMED #2

A massive cross over

I tried this cross-over thinking that it'd just be 4/5-parter (was originally just reading Supes|WW), but as the events unfold, I'm happily surprised that it turned out to be a massive epic :D Was never really a Superman fan, but this crossover (along with the amazing Supes|WW) changes everything.

Agreed! With the exception of Superman #31, this has been a stellar story. Pak and Soule have been doing a great job juggling all of the different characters while still making it feel cohesive. Lobdell did an adequate job with Doomed #1 but #31 felt weak by comparison to the issues that preceded and followed it.

I am still a bit shocked that this story is going to take 15 issues to complete and run through 5 series, a bookend mini and use two annuals!

Posted by timelord

@zbvmx: @scarletbatman:

Agreed on both counts considering where already at the halfway point this even is flying past in a good way. It will be the only New 52 Event I pick up the trade for other than Forever Evil and Trinity War. All though if DC do a hard cover for Red Daughter of Krypton I would by that in a heart beat.

Posted by inferiorego

@scarletbatman They rarely review a ho hum book and nearly never a bad book currently. They currently pick things they believe has a great potential and thus the worst rating you see is usually a 3. As for revising the rating system, I've been advocating that since I found this site to the point where people have flagged my comments. Tony refuses to do so, citing a cranky webmaster. Allowing 1/2 stars, upping it to a 10 star system, this would elevate a tremendous amount of confusion to the reviews. @inferiorego , wouldn't you enjoy the ability to award 1/2 stars? You can define what those stars mean to you on the podcast till your blue in the face, there's still going to be left brain people who see 3/5 and equate that to 60%, aka a failing grade in American education.

60% is a D....... That's passing.

If you want to read reviews that just poop on comics, I know a few small sites I can send you to that give most books incredibly low scores... They're also written poorly and don't understand comics as a mixed media art. Otherwise, you can stay here, read better written reviews, unless their mine (those are super-poopy!), from people that love comics and the industry.

The rating system isn't going to change, and sure, I talk about it from time to time on the podcast, but if I really wanted half stars back, I'd actually press for it, which I'm not.

I'll continue to occasionally give books a 3, read the comments, and want to pull my hair out (the little that's left) because some folks aren't actually reading the review... or I'll go back to simply not reading the comments because 10% of the people on the Internet are quick to react and comment without trying to take in the big picture.

In fact, all this talk of revising the system has led me to want to change the star system... Here's my new system...

1 Star - Bad

2 Stars - Rad (the movie)

Staff
Posted by D9000

(1:48.50) Ya'll don't know bout Nardwuar the Human Serviette??? I guess being a low level Canadian celeb in the 90s doesn't get you recognition on American comic book podcasts in 2014. What a SHAME!! Doot Doola Doot Doo should always be followed by Doot Doo! Or any other two word combination of your choosing. Just ask Marilyn Manson.

(3:01)

Posted by ScarletBatman

@d9000 said:

(1:48.50) Ya'll don't know bout Nardwuar the Human Serviette??? I guess being a low level Canadian celeb in the 90s doesn't get you recognition on American comic book podcasts in 2014. What a SHAME!! Doot Doola Doot Doo should always be followed by Doot Doo! Or any other two word combination of your choosing. Just ask Marilyn Manson.

(3:01)

What did I just watch!? Was this guy for real? Does he do all his interviews like that? Why is this man not famous?

Posted by D9000

@scarletbatman: Wow, good to see strong positive reaction to Nardwuar. Most people aren't really into his gimmick. He's from BC and I can remember when I was about 13 (mid 1990s) seeing his interviews on MuchMusic. If you aren't from Canada than all of this may be completely foreign to you. But yes, he is really like that and all his interviews are like that. Wiki him and sign up on the linked website if you want more info. Seems like all his old interviews are there.

Posted by bloggerboy

The Room references made me lose it!