Tony and Sara present the final regular weekly Comic Vine podcast of the year (there'll still be an episode of the second podcast next week). There's a ton of comics and questions to get through before the end of everything.
Gman, thanks for another massive podcast. You remind me of talk radio which I love espcially because. Its about the comic world. Btw I am usually 2 podcasts behind since I listen to them when I have a spare three hours. Just letting you know that i am listening incase you are tracking listeners. Thanks and happy holidays!
OK, so I haven't even glanced at the new Uncanny X-Force, but maybe the Phantom X that is female is only female in his head? (again I haven't seen the comic so maybe thats not even a possibility), or maybe this is an alternate reality where Storm has the mohawk and Phantom X was always female. Maybe that is why Spiral is there, (again I haven't seen the comic so maybe thats not even a possibility)
As awesome as the Hawkeye series is, do you think it will make it hard for Hawkeye to now be seen doing things like fighting Thanos? Fighting the Hulk? fighting Loki and an army of invading Skrulls in space while protecting Kree aliens? Will it be hard to have him go from extraordinary to down to earth and back?
The company GraphicAudio does audio drama adaptations of certain comic book storylines as well as original novels. Though they seems to use novelizations of the comic stories and base their production on those and are not paced to comic pages. They sound cool.
JLA Rock of Ages had a resistance group against Darkseid it was only two issues that Darkseid was in but they were big issues the same idea was expanded in Final Crisis. Days of Future Past really seems to be the archetype of those stories Dark Knight Returns a little.
Hey Sara, I disagree with you saying that comic book superheroes aren't role models or can't be seen as role models because they are fictional characters. I've been doing that my whole life because in a way I feel can relate to them because the fact they go through problems like people dying, having relationship, or going to work and school while trying to save the world all the time. Even if don't we aren't able to have superpowers and save people. We can relate to them, because they can cry, get angry or have certain views like us human begins. Comic book characters have the best examples on how human beings should be portrayed. The best example, I think is Spider-Man, many people look up to him as a role model because he can juggle being poor supporting his aunt or himself, paying rent from being a photojournalist and having a relationship with Mary Jane and "save the world' on his everyday life (I know the Spider-Man books aren't like this anymore, but I'm just using this as an example).
The problem I have with comic book characters not smoking is because it makes it seem unrealistic. Superheroes are people too and I think it will relate more if at least a few of them do smoke. It is bad to smoke, but I think a person smoking does not mean they are a bad people (I think this where Marvel stepped on the wrong foot), it's just that they have a bad way of handling stress. They are just dependent on an item to release stress. In my life, I have seen people who pass grades in school, support their families in great ways, and are normal nice good people. The only problem they have is smoking, but it doesn't make them a bad person.
Hey, @G-Man, can you tell me what's the name of the comic book publisher you mention that they do for free in the podcast? I just graduated from college and I am currently writing a TV series script that I want to put out there. But I've been thinking of turning it into a comic book then progress it to a TV series. So, you can email me at icerbreaker2@yahoo.com if you tell me in here. I don't care if I am doing it for free I just want to find a way to get the franchise out there. And as you can see I love to write and I am gonna make my own blog on reviewing video games, comics, movies, TV series and cartoons/animes. So once I start the blog I will send you the link later on to check it out.
I started listening to your site a while back but when I started there were already at least 8, maybe 12, podcasts and because I listened to them while I did art (Monkey Boy #1) I went back and listened to all the old ones from the very beginning.
I too disagree with you Sara, comic superheroes should be role models. At the very least they can reinforce the morals and ethics that children are brought up with.
I may not have learned to be a good person from Peter Parker, but the fact that he was a good guy helped strengthen the ethics and such my parents instilled in me. Characters like Steve Rogers, Barry Allen, and Peter Parker, are good men who put others before themselves and wont refuse to help if they can do anything to help. They are strong moral guys. When I was younger I used to draw characters with cigarettes in their mouths because I saw that a lot in comics, like Wolverine and Punisher and the Thing. I knew guns and killing were wrong, and I don't think I would have ever smoked, but maybe some kids might have smoked because they saw it so much in comics. Comic character don't represent what people should go out and be in terms of becoming vigilantes and crime fighters but they are role models in modeling the type of person someone should be. Peter Parker shows that if you can help you should, its your responsibility. They pass on the morals and ethics that help shape children. And it sort of reminds me of the issue of young girls and hollywood and fashion pushing views of what beauty is on young girls from an early age. If a young boy or girl grows up with characters like Wolverine, Punisher, Nick Fury, the Thing, Comissioner Gordon, even Jameson and Mystique, smoking, they may be subtly or even subliminally effected by it. Like I said earlier, they know that killing is wrong and would maybe never do it but they may see smoking as ok in part because they see it all the time in comics. Movies started doing a similar thing where every time a character smoked it added to the rating so a rating could be pushed to R depending on how much smoking the movie showed. And maybe its also the fact that these characters are, or were, always smoking and never had any effects of smoking like coughing or illnesses. I also don't think I will miss characters smoking anyway, Wolverine not smoking wont stop me from enjoying a comic.
Superheroes are supposed to seem real, but because they are fictional they can also be used to express thoughts and ideas and used to effect society. Batman was used to try and stop the use of Land Mines by having him try and save a young girl from one. Harry Osborne and Roy Harper were used to show the dangers or drugs, maybe the comic heroes could be used to (in a small way) lower the number of kids who smoke or would be smokers. And I am not saying smokers are bad people, as someone who had a grandfather with lung disease from smoking and who is related to someone else with a lung disease they were born with I am sensitive to smokers around me, but I am not saying they are bad people. Having comic characters not smoke isn't saying that either. Its just taking the effect of constantly seeing smokers out of comics.
The thing about Wolverine is that he may kill and act awful, and go into rages some times, but he is always shown being conflicted about it and angry at himself for who he is. He doesn't want to kill people in the deepest parts of him, he is sad and angry that parts of him like it when he does kill and that parts of him want to. He also feels like a failure all the time anyway, for being a killing machine, and for being made this way by Weapon X and by his own hands. Its not like they are glorifying Wolverine's killing, or usually they don't. That also bugs me when they glamorize it.
If characters smoked because it added to their character, they could also show more realism, have other characters dislike or refuse to be around them because of the smoking, maybe Peter Parker wont hang around Wolverine when he smokes. Maybe show that Jameson coughs up a lung every day or 3 times a day. Maybe show that a character like Kitty Pryde's grandfather died when he was little from lung cancer. Maybe show a character constantly trying to quit smoking, and being conflicted about smoking and wanting to smoke even though he personally feels he or she shouldn't be smoking and its bad for them.
So the long and short of my argument is that comic characters and stories can be used to impart morals on children and adults (Spider-Man teaching about responsibility to your fellow man) (X-Men teaches about bigotry) and cutting smoking from comics might help by eliminating children growing up constantly seeing smokers in cartoons and comics.
With ALL NEW X-MEN, maybe they will have the young X-Men go back in time, but the effect of meeting their younger selfs will have long lasting effects on all the older characters like Cyclops and Ice Man. Even characters like Magneto and Storm will be effected by seeing the younger X-Men and interacting with them. Which is sort of what Beast was attempting anyway. To not effect time but to get the younger x-men to stop the older cyclops from going past the point of no return.
Thanks for the podcast. Hope the both of you have a happy holidays. Glad to hear you were going to take Jonah with you, Sara.
It's just strange to kill off Fantomex then revive almost immediately with the lady FantomeXX (The XX is for the chromosomes). What of the fate of the previous X-Force? Does Wolverine really get away with having that team of killers while running the school? So many of the X-Men that joined Wolverine to form the school was becasue they didn't like Cyclops having a black ops team, but Wolverine made another immediately after. Now that hypocrisy will likely never be revealed and he'll pay no consequence for it. That kind of makes me hate Wolverine.
Wow, I had never even realized there was a Marvel smoking ban. Is that for real? That's kind of terrible. I actually find that pretty offensive. Are they going to ban the subject of alcohol and gun violence from comics? It's hypocritical. It's incredibly disappointing that celebrities are considered role models.
@Mucklefluga:
Corey was busy saving us from the apocalypse.
@G-Man:
I've gone back and occasionally listened to older podcasts. I like to listen to podcasts while I play UNCHARTED 3's Co-op Area online. It's basically a survival mode but with objectives. Listening to the podcasts are entertaining. Especially the ones with James on.
I did mean "aspiring" artists. My eyesight is a bit blurry due to an allergy I'm dealing with. I missed that typo. My bad..
The manga ONE PIECE does still give you the feeling that anything could happen, but I was more speaking about the point you mentioned about how we know Batman is still going to survive. I've spent so much of my life reading detective novels. It's just so hard to not live in the moment and not think ahead.
You are right that Sarah Rainmaker was a lesbian, but later in the series they made her bi-sexual. I remember it well when there was all the hate mail they got when Rainamker's homosexuality was revealed. I think there was an open letter to the readers in the back of issue three.
Thanks for answering my questions. It is great that you guys pay so much attention to your fans. It feels more personal than those sites that just report the news. Thanks. I think I said the same thing in my question about the voice actors being different than the voices people imagine and taking them out of the story, or maybe I edited that out. But I agree. The Black panther cartoon casted a different voice in the show that what I imagined in my head and I just couldn't listen to that, however the Avenges cartoon casted a different actor and it was much better. So I guess it would also depend on who they casted. I also thought the audio comics could bring in younger readers who maybe buy the comics for the pretty pictures and cool drawings and then don't read because they are too young or have trouble reading.
And its funny Sara should mention that I should do this, I was trying to put it all together in my head. My old college has a sound recording booth. If I had the time and the volunteers, and the SFX I could put something together for my comics. That might be fun. But I haven't been back there for so long and I don't know. Maybe in the future. And its like you said, its different than the reading experience.
I have some times found myself going to the store and buying comics that aren't bad but I just feel like I am going through the motions. Not lately though, but in the past. I would start getting a comic and it would almost feel like I am waiting for something to happen and just buying it because that is a series I decided to buy. I don't feel like this all the time. Mostly I am excited about comics all the time, especially now
Hi all, I just read Marvel Comics, the Untold Story by Sean Howe. It was a very interesting book of how Marvel started, the personality conflicts thoroughly the years including Kirby and Stan Lee, the bankruptcy, the take over attempts, and all the back story's including the enormous salary's some artists were making in the 90's. It was a great read. Have you guys read it... or talked about it on a podcast? I would give it 5 stars. I heard that Dan Slot is getting death threats because he killed off spiderman but not seeing anything as of yet on the web that elaborates. What's the story? Happy Holidays! Scott PS I too agree with cc178 comments about Allred. I don't get it. Or Romita jr, or Samnee. I can appreciate others people opinion but to me it looks like what I saw in high school art class ....terrible. I am one of those collectors that can't read a book by Romita Jr because his work is so bad it is distracting. I guess it is true... Different strokes for different folks
@G-Man Geez, You really need to lay off books that "Don't make sense in another book." (Case in point: Wonder Woman-Justice League/Captain America-Avengers-Uncanny Avengers.) Can you not suspend that opinion and appreciate the story? Do you need to mention it EVERY podcast? Same deal with the 5 year time line in DC. Its 5 Years, get over it. That being said the biggest gripe I have with it is: its not the fact you are complaining about continuity, it's the fact you are SELECTIVELY complaining. Do you moan about Batman Inc's continuity that much? Not really. Do you moan about Batman and the fact that he has the time to peep at Wonder Woman and Superman over in justice league whilst he is supposed to be finding the joker over in his self titled title? In Court of the Owls he was Ko'd in the Labyrinth for 8 Days, yet he appeared in EVERY other bat title that month! Geez wow did hear a peep out of you on that one. You didnt even complain that Spiderman appeared in Avengers when he is supposed to be yano "Superior". Appreciate a story for what it is and let all that other rubbish go. I mean you even had a problem with Deadpool in UXF because he didn't feel the same as other Deadpools in other books, you didn't stop to think he feels like the perfect Deadpool for how he was portrayed in UXF. That selective mindset Really bugs me, it's disappointing that someone who has the power to influence people's opinions the way you do cannot be completely objective and see a story for a story.
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