AVX and the Phoenix Force...

#1 Posted by The_Diamond_Prince (66 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing has been sort of bothering me with this AVX event (actually more than one, but lets focus on one for now). Rachel Grey was the Phoenix host for years, proving that it can be controlled... A) did everyone freak out when she first started manifesting Phoenix powers? B) If the Phoenix force is already in a person (Rachel, Hope ect.), then how can it "return"? Hope has demonstrated Phoenix abilities on and off, wasn't it always there to begin with?

As I read this event I keep feeling as though everything isn't quite as clear as it should be, which makes me question everyone's motivations, which in turn makes me question the entire event...

#2 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Diamond_Prince: In response to your question about Rachel being the Phoenix host proving that it can be controlled. To my knowledge she is the only one that was able to "control" it. And I'm by no means an expert so if I'm wrong please correct me (preferrably civily), but even the fact that she was "controlling" it could be debated, atleast it has on other forums. The biggest argument seems to be that if she could truly control it it wouldn't have left her at whatever point it was (during a fight I think). Unfortunately can't remember the details.

#3 Posted by MadRooster81 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. I'm questioning the entire event too. I like the idea of AvX but I feel they are not doing a very good job with the story. I'm hoping they fill some of these story holes very soon. But it feels like they are trying to play off an idea without really thinking it through.

#4 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

hope basiclly can manifest any power that has been associated with the mutant community either thru A) touching rogue who has at 1 point touched/tried to absorb the phoenix force B) is the collective(All the mutant energy stolen from mutants when the House Of M ended) reborn but since she was reborn in a jean grey-ish form she was able to manifest phoenix potential as the first powers she manifested were telepathy & telekinesis= JEAN GREY'S POWER or C) Had a part of the phoenix within her like Phoebe, Celeste, & Irma did

#5 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@XsPectre28 said:

hope basiclly can manifest any power that has been associated with the mutant community either thru A) touching rogue who has at 1 point touched/tried to absorb the phoenix force B) is the collective(All the mutant energy stolen from mutants when the House Of M ended) reborn but since she was reborn in a jean grey-ish form she was able to manifest phoenix potential as the first powers she manifested were telepathy & telekinesis= JEAN GREY'S POWER or C) Had a part of the phoenix within her like Phoebe, Celeste, & Irma did

The Stepford Cuckoos, Rachel Grey, and Korvus' sword all lost their Phoenix shards (only shards in the Cuckoos' case) when Sculphunter flew over Utopia with those Predator X's.

#6 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Diamond_Prince said:

One thing has been sort of bothering me with this AVX event (actually more than one, but lets focus on one for now). Rachel Grey was the Phoenix host for years, proving that it can be controlled... A) did everyone freak out when she first started manifesting Phoenix powers? B) If the Phoenix force is already in a person (Rachel, Hope ect.), then how can it "return"? Hope has demonstrated Phoenix abilities on and off, wasn't it always there to begin with?

As I read this event I keep feeling as though everything isn't quite as clear as it should be, which makes me question everyone's motivations, which in turn makes me question the entire event...

Good questions... I think "B" crossed my mind initially right when the event was announced! But it's a really good question. Seeing as how I'm not reading AvX anymore (waste of money) I can't really critique well about how the event is going! But it feels to me through all of the solicitations, covers, and people who post reviews about the issues... It's mainly about the tie-ins with who is fighting who and the Phoenix thing is an afterthought.

#7 Posted by The_Diamond_Prince (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992: Yea. Sad to say, but it appears that the tie-ins are the only parts of this event trying to make any sense of all this i.e. Wolverine and the X men, Legacy. It's a shame that the main book could pretty much give a crap.

#8 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Diamond_Prince said:

@papad1992: Yea. Sad to say, but it appears that the tie-ins are the only parts of this event trying to make any sense of all this i.e. Wolverine and the X men, Legacy. It's a shame that the main book could pretty much give a crap.

This is the reason why I don't buy big events like this! They're too costly and all over the place...

#9 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3978 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Diamond_Prince said:

One thing has been sort of bothering me with this AVX event (actually more than one, but lets focus on one for now). Rachel Grey was the Phoenix host for years, proving that it can be controlled... A) did everyone freak out when she first started manifesting Phoenix powers? B) If the Phoenix force is already in a person (Rachel, Hope ect.), then how can it "return"? Hope has demonstrated Phoenix abilities on and off, wasn't it always there to begin with?

As I read this event I keep feeling as though everything isn't quite as clear as it should be, which makes me question everyone's motivations, which in turn makes me question the entire event...

The reason Rachel had control over the Phoenix is because she was given the manageable piece.

When Dark Phoenix killed herself, she went to return Jeans soul, but a part that was still in Jeans body rejected it, the Force left, on it's way it sensed two presences, identical to Jean, Rachels astral form, and Maddies body. It split as it was still apologetic and wanted to be purged of Dark Phoenixs taint as much as Jean didn't want it.

One part went to Maddie, this was the part that became Dark Phoenix which is why Maddie was so easy to corrupt, the other part that was Green Phoenix went into Rachel, this is the more manageable piece, as Green Phoenix did not have control issues, and was more than capable enough to limit how much power she wanted and needed.

That is why Rachel was never as powerful as the first Jean/Phoenix manifestation, she was not whole as the Dark Phoenix part was riding Maddie giving her a soul and life, that part was then absorbed by Jean and used against a Celestial.

So in short Rachel was a Green Phoenix, Green Phoenix has a more symbiotic relationship with those it bonds with, in that the Phoenix gave power and Rachel gave it focus and means to redeem itself, whereas a Dark Phoenix is all about consuming everything it touches based on it's own desires.

That's the way I always saw it anyway.

#10 Posted by The_Diamond_Prince (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: Wow...quite complicated. So your saying the pheonix never really left earth after the whole dark Phoenix situation, it just went to Madelyn and Rachel? Is this all backed in the books or is this just a guess?

#11 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3978 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Diamond_Prince said:

@LordOfAllHumans: Wow...quite complicated. So your saying the pheonix never really left earth after the whole dark Phoenix situation, it just went to Madelyn and Rachel? Is this all backed in the books or is this just a guess?

It's backed by books, the Phoenix explained it when it told the Xmen Rachels full story in Excalibur, and the Maddie was explained during Inferno. At least it was explained that Phoenix that went to return the pieces from Jean was the same one that thought Rachel was Jean and bonded with her is, the same one that also gave life to Maddie, it would have had to split to do this, but Maddie got the memories of DP which is why she woke up calling for Scott (I'll have to check on the Scott part), whom the Phoenix fell in love with due to Jeans feeling for him, which explains Maddies obsession.

#12 Posted by GREGalicious (473 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix stories are ALWAYS inconsistant. Im still trying to understand how non-omega mutants can even house the Phoenix power. Emma clearly couldnt handle it during Endsong so how come all of a sudden she is fine? And what about Jean? She became the White Phoenix and clearly said she was (and apparently always was) a part of the Phoenix. It simply makes no sense to possess 5 other LESSER people when you have your own established body in Jean. I dont get it and it makes me wonder if this "Phoenix" is even real at all. I think AVX's particular force(s) may be some of the (weak and lost) Phoenix fragments Jean spoke of in Endsong. We'll see I guess.

#13 Posted by cnkrc (13 posts) - - Show Bio

If I was the Phoenix Force , I would probably go after Franklin Richards as an avatar....Just sayin'. Or maybe Mr.Franklin is too much for the good ol' phoenix. :))

#14 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6585 posts) - - Show Bio

The story finally picked up after issue 6

#15 Posted by DATNIGGA (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

@cnkrc: Im pretty sure he would end up making the Phoenix his pet.. frank can do some crazy stuff

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