What Phantom Starnger is Judas Iscariot ?

#1 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I just checked out PS's background and he is Judas Iscariot ? Thats amazing. So why would the man upstairs just such power to a guy like him ? Bonus question... If Judas Iscariot exested in the DC Universe and in the Marvel Universe... So dose that mean are there multiple vertions of Jesus ? I mean if there is anly 1 true god there should be only one ?

#2 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you saying "What if" or do you think he is?

#3 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

Are you saying "What if" or do you think he is?

No, that's his definitive origin in the new DCU. Bleh.

#4 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

I still cant beleve they made PS Judas ? It probily would have worked better if PS was a new charactor. I mean they relly diden't have to go there. He could have been a dude named... I don't know. how about something like atulikis and make him a theif who stold a prisless artifact. then for his punichment the wizerds made him into phantom stranger.

#5 Posted by justice teen (460 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kid_Omega_Prime: I guess the Judas thing could work, if the elaborate on it good enough.

#6 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like it. Reminds me too much of the bigoted "wandering jew" myth.

#7 Posted by The Lobster (1512 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:

I don't like it. Reminds me too much of the bigoted "wandering jew" myth.

Pretty sure the title of "Wandering Jew" in the new DC universe belongs to the New Question. The Phantom Stranger is cursed with immortality like the wandering jew myth but so is the new Question. The difference is that The Phantom Stranger is cursed to forever be a stranger to man (Nothing like the Wandering Jew myth). Vic Sage's curse however was to "wander" the earth in search of questions he can never find the answers to, which is much more in tune with the mythology of the Wandering Jew.
#8 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Lobster said:

@fodigg said:

I don't like it. Reminds me too much of the bigoted "wandering jew" myth.

Pretty sure the title of "Wandering Jew" in the new DC universe belongs to the New Question. The Phantom Stranger is cursed with immortality like the wandering jew myth but so is the new Question. The difference is that The Phantom Stranger is cursed to forever be a stranger to man (Nothing like the Wandering Jew myth). Vic Sage's curse however was to "wander" the earth in search of questions he can never find the answers to, which is much more in tune with the mythology of the Wandering Jew.

How is the wandering jew not a "stranger to humanity"? In many versions of the myth he is literally forced to wander constantly. He can never stop to rest, even for a moment. That might also be similar to the new Question, but the new question has no connection to the Jesus myth while the PS has been made Judas himself.

#9 Posted by cbishop (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@The Lobster said:

@fodigg said:

I don't like it. Reminds me too much of the bigoted "wandering jew" myth.

Pretty sure the title of "Wandering Jew" in the new DC universe belongs to the New Question. The Phantom Stranger is cursed with immortality like the wandering jew myth but so is the new Question. The difference is that The Phantom Stranger is cursed to forever be a stranger to man (Nothing like the Wandering Jew myth). Vic Sage's curse however was to "wander" the earth in search of questions he can never find the answers to, which is much more in tune with the mythology of the Wandering Jew.

How is the wandering jew not a "stranger to humanity"? In many versions of the myth he is literally forced to wander constantly. He can never stop to rest, even for a moment. That might also be similar to the new Question, but the new question has no connection to the Jesus myth while the PS has been made Judas himself.

Actually, in Secret Origins #10 - a series which is likely no longer canon - there were four possible origins for the Stranger, told by the Stranger to a priest. One of them made him out to be Judas, and another the Wandering Jew. I liked it better that they left his origin as non-defined. He's a stranger - we just shouldn't know anything about him. :)

However, in the New 52, I think the idea is that the Trinity of Sin are three individuals that have much to atone for, so we have Pandora, Judas, and the Wandering Jew. Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept as a whole, because it makes no sense to group them together. Neither does it make sense to define the Stranger's origin, nor to make the Question immortal. <sigh> Not to down on the New 52 yet again, but there's just so much about it that doesn't make sense to me.

#10 Posted by Squalleon (4609 posts) - - Show Bio

I really dont have problem with PS being Judas! I like definite origins and for PS it should be something like a curse also I like the idea that the guy who committed the greatest betrayal of history found a deserving punishment!

#11 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Umm... There is a major problem with the idea "Trinity of Sin" None of them are actually sinners.

Judas especially was not. The reason people think that Judas is some horrible person in the christian faith is because he "betrayed" Jesus, but that's not accurate. Judas was the most trusted so much so that he was the only one who was trusted to do what needed to be done even in the face of Jesus being killed and tortured. Jesus told him to do it. He committed suicide because of the guilt of letting Jesus go through with it and he thought he could have stopped it. So if people think he should be a bad guy or something like that they are mistaken. Also much of the hate comes from the worship of Peter or John, I forget which was the idiot that it is being increasingly shown that if Jesus existed they were not the ones that were to be the teachers and knowing that the branch that came off them (Catholicism and all of modern Christianity) demonized Judas and Mary Magdalene.

In the end Pandora and Juda, both are not tales of different "sins" but rather the same "sin" which isn't normally thought of as one and it is the that of "excess" Pandora let her curiosity get the better of her and Judas let his remorse get the better of him.

Oh also... another thing to point out is there are 2 people supposedly with eternal lives from the Bible myths, both are held as possible candidates for the origins of Vampires by people who think these things are real...Cain and Judas. Both are cursed to walk the world forever. If I had to guess, with the whole "Wandering Jew" thing and all that with The Question, I'd go with he's Cain, considering he's the one who posed that legendary question of "Am I my brothers' keeper?"

#12 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

I like this origin for PS. I like it a lot.

#13 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: umm,who told you they were vampires...Wait,I think i misunderstood (sincerely i did),can you please explain that vampire thing.And what about the teacher thing with peter or john,I think peter however was the one who always was a sellout.

#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33360 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

Umm... There is a major problem with the idea "Trinity of Sin" None of them are actually sinners.

Judas especially was not. The reason people think that Judas is some horrible person in the christian faith is because he "betrayed" Jesus, but that's not accurate. Judas was the most trusted so much so that he was the only one who was trusted to do what needed to be done even in the face of Jesus being killed and tortured. Jesus told him to do it. He committed suicide because of the guilt of letting Jesus go through with it and he thought he could have stopped it. So if people think he should be a bad guy or something like that they are mistaken. Also much of the hate comes from the worship of Peter or John, I forget which was the idiot that it is being increasingly shown that if Jesus existed they were not the ones that were to be the teachers and knowing that the branch that came off them (Catholicism and all of modern Christianity) demonized Judas and Mary Magdalene.

In the end Pandora and Juda, both are not tales of different "sins" but rather the same "sin" which isn't normally thought of as one and it is the that of "excess" Pandora let her curiosity get the better of her and Judas let his remorse get the better of him.

Oh also... another thing to point out is there are 2 people supposedly with eternal lives from the Bible myths, both are held as possible candidates for the origins of Vampires by people who think these things are real...Cain and Judas. Both are cursed to walk the world forever. If I had to guess, with the whole "Wandering Jew" thing and all that with The Question, I'd go with he's Cain, considering he's the one who posed that legendary question of "Am I my brothers' keeper?"

I like this post

#15 Edited by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: but damn do you know alot....

But most people (atleast the ones i know) who are christian (including me) don't think he is a bad guy.

Put still,in one of the sentences above there i forget which was the idiot that it is bein increasinly shown that if Jesus existed they were not the onces that were to be the teachers and knowing that the branch that came off them

what does that sentence mean exactly,I can't really put my finger on it

EDIT:WAIT I THINK i know what it means,it means that (either) Peter or John weren't supposed to preach (maybe they were told not to) and just did it anyway,and (this next one is a rough guess) that catholicism and (most since i DON'T know anyone,even in my church who does or say that) Demonized Judas and mary magdeline.

But with judas I am guessing he betrayed Jesus,but I don't think many churches really care that he did that

#16 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: It's a badly constructed sentence...

Before the Crucifixion, according to several sources the head of the "Church" was supposed to be Mary Magdalene. Judas and Mary were both high up in the hierarchy of Jesus' group, however, Peter (I think it was Peter, or maybe John) took over and started the Catholic church and over the years spread hatred of Judas and the Popes slowly made out like Mary was nothing but a whore who had no position in the group. Mary Magdalene was not the prostitute Jesus saved. A Pope connected the two to lower Magdalene and it was easy because Mary is a common name. In other words, the church of Peter, the Catholic church, is illegitimate and Peter was never supposed to be the "teacher" but rather it was supposed to be Mary.

I didn't say Judas and Cain were vampires. I said that they are held to be possible progenitors by people who believe in vampire mythologies. There are 3 people in history that are possible according to people who believe in certain vampire mythologies, Cain, Judas, and Vlad Dracul. The former two were cursed with wandering the Earth forever. Cain I know was given a "mark." Not sure if Judas was, but in DCU the mark of Cain was born by Vic Savage for a time, and was transferred to Renee Montoya. I think they were both also cursed to "walk the world alone," but I'm not positive. But basically they are both given curses that make them virtually immortal... And just because I brought it up. Vlad Dracul in mythology isn't a vampire. He's a black hell hound or demon dog, or whatever you want to call it. It was changed to vampire in the novels. I would bet that the transformation powers of vampires comes from Dracul myths as a demon dog though.

#17 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: THANKS!

also you are very very very smart sir...Whatever your doing,keep doing it

#18 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

I forgot to ask this. But is the Phantom Stranger in the New 52 the same PS or a new PS ? I mean there can be more then one ?

#19 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kid_Omega_Prime said:

I forgot to ask this. But is the Phantom Stranger in the New 52 the same PS or a new PS ? I mean there can be more then one ?

You could play a game and pretend like the DCnU PS is sorta like a reincarnation of the old PS where he look at the end of the DCU and got transfered into Judas lol

#20 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it better when I didn't know diddly squat about the Phantom Stranger. Now he's more like the Phantom Acquaintance

#21 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I liked it better if they never reveled his orgion. In PS case less is more. I still can't beleve they made a hero out of one of the most dispised men in history. Whats next Adolf Hitler will become the new superman or Super-Mann. Oh I know DC or Marvel brings back Lissy Borden and makes her a vampire slayer. AAAAHHHH!!!!!.

#22 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kid_Omega_Prime: What's the point of posting if you aren't going to listen? Judas us actually one of the "best" people to use from Abrahamic Myth. Who would you prefer? Perhaps one of the litany of heinous individuals that most people think are "good" men because they don't know anything about their religion and no reasonable person would ever call those people good...

#23 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

@Kid_Omega_Prime: What's the point of posting if you aren't going to listen? Judas us actually one of the "best" people to use from Abrahamic Myth. Who would you prefer? Perhaps one of the litany of heinous individuals that most people think are "good" men because they don't know anything about their religion and no reasonable person would ever call those people good...

Well I gess eveybody is intited to there appinion. I know I asked this question already but i'm asking again... If Judas Iscariot exested in the DC Universe and in the Marvel Universe... So dose that mean are there multiple vertions of Jesus ? I mean if there is anly 1 true god there should be only one ?

#24 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kid_Omega_Prime said:

@Durakken said:

@Kid_Omega_Prime: What's the point of posting if you aren't going to listen? Judas us actually one of the "best" people to use from Abrahamic Myth. Who would you prefer? Perhaps one of the litany of heinous individuals that most people think are "good" men because they don't know anything about their religion and no reasonable person would ever call those people good...

Well I gess eveybody is intited to there appinion. I know I asked this question already but i'm asking again... If Judas Iscariot exested in the DC Universe and in the Marvel Universe... So dose that mean are there multiple vertions of Jesus ? I mean if there is anly 1 true god there should be only one ?

...

There is also only one Santa Clause. You better go wonder how Santa is in Marvel and DC

#25 Posted by Nightwing28710 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom being Judas is confusing to me. He's condemned by a group of wizards for betraying Jesus (Christian monotheist religion). The Wizard Shazam is one of them. Wizard Shazam gave Billy Batson the power of greek gods ( greek polytheist religion). It doesn't make sense theologically. Unless DC is saying Jesus isn't the son of God, and Judus isn't being punished for betraying the Christ, but for betraying his best friend. Even then Judas can't be the first guy to betray his best friend. I dunno. The whole thing seem convoluted to me.

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