ComicVine News

Grab our RSS feed which is "after the jump" free

Added by FoxxFireArt on Sept. 25, 2009

Can there be too much action in comic books?


 
 
 Where are my legs?
 Where are my legs?
Recently, I had been hit with a writing bug and my article had the honor of being posted on such fine sites as ComicVine and AnimeVice. I had even heard that it was posted across many other manga/anime blogs. The gratitude I have toward the ComicVine staff, that encouraged me to write the first featured article, is quite incalculable. The same goes to the staff on AnimeVice who also carried the story.

One thing about the largest selling point to US comics is the action. It’s what we all love, and pretty much been the hallmark of some of our greatest comics and events. Who wasn’t effected by the fight of Superman and Doomsday? We have the promise of amazing action that is to fill the pages and get are blood flowing. Though it’s not always delivered as promised. As I was watching G-Man’s review of the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Exodus book something struck me. The Utopia story had so much potential that fell short.  For months we had a slow and steady build up to what was climaxed in the Exodus book. Though this book felt like a promise unrealized. In the beginning it had a long climb up, similar to the start of a roller coaster. You sit, strapped in, waiting for that first great fall that will give you the momentum needed to hit all the twists and turns to come. Utopia felt more like a long, five minute climb to ten foot drop, and it was all over. Exciting for a whole three seconds, but left me vastly unfulfilled. Not to say that the fights were bad. It all just felt as if so much was missed. I don’t even hold the writers or the artists accountable for this. Their job was done and done well in each book. For I blame what none of us can escape, even as it constantly moves: Time. Well, Time and the Marvel editorial staff that dictates that these events have to settle within a certain time frame.

It seriously feels that in many comics we have to choose between either story or action. If we desire more of one. We then must sacrifice a part of the other. This was also shown in Babs’ review of Dark Reign-The List: X-Men. It’s not as if our writers or artists in the US series aren’t capable of doing both. Wolverine's story during Civil War was a great read with great action. Why does this even have to be a choice? 


Thinking of how this story moved it reminded me of an arc that was used in the manga series, One Piece. It’s a story that was published several years back about the CP-9/Enis Lobby arc. In many ways it shares a couple of similarities with the Utopia/Exodus story. Both had a long build up,friends turning on each other, twists in loyalties, possible betrayal from an enigmatic member of the heroes, clashing with a dark, corrupt government organization filled with killers; and ended in battles that changed the status quo forever. To date, it’s one of my favorite arcs, because of the emotions it evoked, with Nico Robin’s past; and the scale of the battles at the end.

The story for this stage in One Piece pretty much began with chapter 343(Oct. 24, 2004) and the appearance of the Cipher Pol-9 (CP-9). Following the tradition of weekly chapter releases, the build up lasted past the following year, and the opening salvo was in chapter 398(Jan. 29, 2006). The Utopia story first began in Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Utopia #1 (Jun. 24, 2009), but the roots of the story date further back. As with all tales in the current Marvel continuum. All roads lead back to Civil War, which to me played out like a political allegory; similar to Animal Farm, but without the talking pigs. (Well, unless you wish to count Stark, but that’s getting off the topic.) Civil War ultimately is what lead to the Dark Reign. Norman Osborn stole Wolverine’s kill shot in Secret Invasion; and the murderer of Gwen Stacy quickly became America’s hero. He had created the Cabal in Secret Invasion: Dark Reign #1 (Dec. 3, 2008) and the X-Men had been mostly uninvolved. Despite Emma Frost’s agreement to join at the end of Uncanny X-Men #505 (Dec. 17, 2008). It all came to a head when the mutant riots broke out and Dark Reign finally fell on the mutant population in DA/UXM: Utopia.

In the Enis Lobby story the Strawhat Crew pretty much separated and paired off with an opponent at chapter 400 (Feb. 12, 2009), though these matches would mix up as the story moved on. Much in the same way Cyclops had his X-Men paired off with certain enemies, but had certain twists as the action progressed. Just to give you a feeling for just how these battles lasted in the One Piece series. This was the make up and the duration of each fight seen, from first meeting to final blow.


Strawhat/CP-9
ChaptersTime duration
Zoro vs. KakuCH.400-41820 weeks
Nami vs. KalifaCH.403-41211 weeks
Sanji vs. JabraCH.413-4153 weeks
Chopper vs. KumadoriCH.403-4087 weeks
Franky vs. FukurouCH.402-4066 weeks
Luffy vs. Rob LucciCH.408/418-42722 weeks
 
You may notice that some of these chapters over lap. That’s because even while fights were going on around. The story was still being told, and more then one battle was happening at a time. This wasn’t like the Dragonball Z fights, that were just blind fighting. In the Enis Lobby arc the battles just felt as epic as the story that had been built up. There was a balance. So much detail was given to each fight. It could be used as a story board for the animated version, and most likely was. The climax was with the leaders’ fight of Luffy and Rob Lucci is the kind of thing you cheer at.
Luffy had been beaten down over and over. Only to rise again and pull off an amazing last-ditch attack. So traumatized did this leave the hero, that he couldn’t move afterward and was unconscious for three days after the fight had been over.

Balance that to the Utopia/Exodus story. While it started in late June. It came to a conclusion in early September of the same year. I have been quite the critic of Fraction’s handling of the X-Men’s story, but I can’t hold it against him with the balance of action to story. I felt the build up was looking promising. Here, he’s working with the time he had. The entire battle was told within a single book while the story that began this was through Dark X-Men: Beginning #1-3, DA/UXM: Utopia, Dark Avengers #7-8, Uncanny X-Men #513-514, and X-Men Legacy #226-227. This was a ten to one ratio of story to action. There was some action in between, but none on the level that was expected of having two powerful forces come to a head. Normally, when there are crossovers of major teams. It’s between heroes that get caught up in some sort of misunderstanding. No side wants to be painted poorly. This was a team of villains. A massive battle was deserved. This was the line up we had for Exodus:


X-MenDark Avengers/X-Men
WolverineWeapon Omega
X-23/Pixie/Armor Daken
ArchangelBullseye
ColossusVenom
NamorSentry
New MutantsAres
X-Club Dark Beast
Iceman/New X-MenMimic
Various mutantsMoonstone
CyclopsOsborn

For the length of the battle. The art was often times breath taking. From pencil to color. I can’t remember when I’ve seen Archangel look so cool.
You could almost feel the level of doom coming Bullseye’s way. Past introductions we didn’t really see much of ‘anything‘ in the majority of these fights. The battle that got the most attention was between Cyclops and Osborn, in his Iron Patriot armor. That consisted mostly of Scott being beaten around while mocking Norman. Though I did enjoy watching Norman break down like a tantruming two year old screaming, “No No, No, No!!”. It appeared that the battles of Namor/ Sentry and Wolverine/ Weapon Omega were both of epic detail. What happened between Namor throwing that truck to being pounded into the pavement by Sentry? How was Weapon Omega standing after being stabbed in the back? It’s just sad so little was ever even seen. It could also of been quite entertaining to see Daken have his regenerating rear handed to him by three teenage girls, considering how poorly he tends to treat women. I don’t know if that was intentional, but my hat’s off to Matt Fraction on that touch. Moonstone's involvement was so short it was almost laughable. Dani Moonstar’s power revival and fight with the war god Ares, while incredibly well drawn, felt slighted by the time it was given. A battle that by all rights should of lasted hours, felt closer to thirty minutes. It was more like watching a highlight reel of a soccer match or baseball game. Rather then the sensation of actually being there watching.  If there was ever a fight that I would of loved to of seen get some manga-like attention. It would have been these.

Out of everything, it was the aftermath that felt silly. All this massive fighting and no one was shown even bed ridden once the dust settled. 
Scott, who had done little else but get pounded upon, by a psychopath in a suit of armor, only seemed to suffer some cuts, torn clothes, and had a little bandage on his head. All over the X-Men seemed relatively unharmed. Osborn’s Dark X-Men and Avengers were even more bizarre for a team that lost. Moonstone had her arm in a sling for some reason. Somehow despite multiple goring by Wolverine, Weapon Omega only seemed to have his hood damaged. Wolverine has never struck me as the kind of man who lets someone get away without losing a toe at the least. Especially, when there is a personal aspect to a fight. Dark Beast, though well outnumbered, didn’t even seem to suffer so much as a scuffed shirt. Though what was the
oddest touch I noticed, of all the people to still show fresh injuries. Daken clearly was showing cuts. If anyone should have been healed completely by the time of a press conference, it’s him. There is some irony that the only member of the X-Men or Dark Avengers that seems to suffer any long term effect from this battle is Emma Frost, the one who wasn’t even involved in the physical fighting.

This being said. One Piece is pretty infamous for people surviving ridiculous amounts of bodily damage. Don’t think I’m just picking on US comics alone for breaking the laws of continuity. The One Piece character Pell, from the Alabasta arc, flies a bomb, intended to level an entire city, into the sky. He is point blank when it finally goes off and easily presumed dead. It was a moving moment where he seemingly sacrifices himself to save thousands and the princess, Vivi, he has watched grow up from childhood. (I highly recommend you at least look up the scene on you tube if you ever get the chance.) At the end of the arc he is shown to of somehow survived. Also at times, Zoro (who I often see as the Wolverine of One Piece) suffers such damage in a fight it effects his performance considerably for many arcs past. So far, any character deaths that have happened in One Piece have been in flash backs. The creator, Eiichiro Oda, has said that he feels it is more important for the villains’ wicked dreams to die, rather then having the heroes actually take a life. Which is fitting when you consider the over riding theme of One Piece is about dreams.
Each character has their own dream. Luffy to be King of the Pirates, and Nami to draw a map of the world.

When it comes right down to it. There is a question I want to ask you. Mind you ahead of time. No one has ever even seriously considered this. It's not a rumor I heard. It’s just an idea I had running through my head. If it meant that you could have your comics in full color, not to mention having equal parts action and story; do you think you could have the patience to see US comics be published like weekly Japanese manga? Mangas have a distinct advantage being published weekly. If a reader doesn’t like a particular section. They normally only have to wait for the following week to see what happened next, rather then the monthly time line we have. I think that US comic creators have the skill to do it. They just lack the time needed.


A single issue of the manga magazine, Shonen Jump, has several different manga series between the covers; from Bleach, One Piece, Naruto, and many more. Imagine all the X-Men titles being published in a single weekly magazine, with sixteen to eighteen pages of story dedicated to each series; New Mutants, Uncanny X-Men, Wolverine, etc. When you consider how many pages that are in a month’s issue of your average comic. You could easily have about two normal sized comics (25-30 pages) within a single month. It may feel slow going at times, but the action we all enjoy out of these comics would increase ten fold in both length and detail. You would get to see the high and lows of a fight. Watch our heroes struggle against a powerful villain and turn the tide with one last attack. It could also seem faster if we had new issues each week, missing only during national holidays. There would be little concern about missing an issue during crossovers. Say you don’t want to read the other books. You would only have to wait two to three months and get the volume collection that would contain twelve weeks of the chapters per volume.

Overall, I feel the format given to US artists can be too constraining. Major story events are created one after the next and each writer is pretty well forced to fit their story within a small handful of months. Rather then writing an organic story that progresses naturally and has a satisfying climax (no puns, please). We more often get what I talked about earlier. More action with less story development, or long drawn out story with a flat or rushed conclusion.


These are my thoughts on the issue. Do you think you have the patience to read a story arc that could last two years if all it meant was having slightly shortened chapters, but you also get more dramatic action and fighting with your story? Do you think the larger audience could handle this as well?

Thank you for reading. 


28 Comments

Grendel
on Sept. 25, 2009
I agree. A big problem is that if it isn't handled right, the action feels forced and contrived. Cyclops and Wolverine punching eachother over every disagreement they have is idioctic and more implausible than superpowers.

Aronmorales
on Sept. 25, 2009
I agree with Grendel, no unnecessary or forced action, things should flow ya know? like a team situation for example (not that I can think of anything good to exemplify.)  where you can tell when two people hate each other; don't let them fight first issue, let the tension grow.
 
I guess what I'm really trying to say is take a break, ease up.

movieartman
on Sept. 25, 2009

 the battle between moonstar and ares really should have lasted at least one more page then it 
did and shouldnt have been so onesided i mean moonstar would definetly win but not so easily

Portrait
on Sept. 25, 2009
Way too much battling, and not enough story. There was a good balance until after the One Year Later arcs I think.

CATMANEXE
on Sept. 25, 2009
i was majorly let down by the action in the entire Utopia (well sans Legacy anyways) arc, for same reasons that the battles were set,
and never panned out, especially two in particular that graced the covers, being X-23 Vs Daken and Namor Vs Sentry. that Bullseye Vs Archangel match (i mean non-match) and Colossus Vs Venom final bout were particular dissapointments as well. hell, in the final one-shot there were so many mistakes it hurt my eyes. take when Bullseye starts the issue by attacking the X-Men with a three arrow shot. Cyclops shotts the arrows and misses Bullseye. next we see the arrows Cyclops just shot (?) going in the wrong direction, 
two of them hit a female mutant who loos like Emma sans costume who has turned into steel (?) (Mercury, Husk, who shouldnt be there BTW), one hitting her hard form and bouncing off (not breaking, even though the same arrow was just broken by Cyclops)
and the other going through her arm at the same time (?), while the third makes its home in Anoles gut (who right afterwords is fine as if this never happened (?). then Archangel swoops in and grabs Bullseye by surprise (who we just saw anticipating Cyclops's multiple optic beams and dodging everyone?) and the match between them sets in the woods (?) and ends up not happeneing.
later we see them back with their crews (Archangel must have felt bad for being mad at his friend Bullseye and gave him a lift back?)
need i go on?

Omega King
on Sept. 25, 2009
A great review, i agree. The action and story should be evenly divided.

FoxxFireArt is online
on Sept. 25, 2009
@movieartman: 
That was part of my argument. That fight was over far too easily. It could of bee an epic fight before it was over. In manga a fight like that would probably of gotten two to three chapter.
 
@CATMANEXE:
I appreciate your thoughtful input. It's pretty much like I said. The battles felt more like watching highlight reels then being there and watching it flow.
Also notice the HUGE continuity error with the Namor fight? Namor and Sentry fly away from the Utopia island where it's dusk, but when they crash through the buildings it looks like it's noon. You could reason that they went FAR away, but when Sentry is seen flying away you can see him from Cyclops and Norman's point of view. Not to mention, what was up with the idiotic line for Namor, "gibbering schizoid"? I'm far from a Namor fan, but why was he given a line that sound like it came from a bratty thriteen year old?

You could just image how amazing these fights could of been if we got to see then in manga-like forms.
 
@Omega King:
Thanks, but if you notice the One Piece arc I cited. The story to action wasn't balance. The arc began in late 2004, but the final battle didn't start until early 2006. There were some fights during 2005, but noting on the scale that the story ended with. The fighting that started in 2006 ended in late 2006. That's hardly what I would call a balance. My point here was about not giving fights enough attention. Exodus could of been a much stronger end if the fights had been stretched out to a two or even three part story.

HaloKing343
on Sept. 25, 2009
Action can be great and I agree that it can either make or break a story. I think that action has to be written well. We've all seen explosions before and we've all seen people punching each other. Regular scenes like that just don't cut it. Just like most other elements of the story, the writer needs to bring an interesting element to the table. Warren Ellis for example has written some of the coolest action scenes ever, made up of nothing but fights. 

dancingphlower
on Sept. 25, 2009
I agree with the OP. This could end up being a great idea.

uncanny89
on Sept. 26, 2009

thats a nice article, i have t agree with you about the time frame of utopia and i think that was down to the editors rather than writer i think it could of gone for maybe one more issue or have exodus being around 50 pages and gone ito detail with the fights and shown more of what actuallty happened with emma/sentry and the void.  id would of paid for it (within reason). i would comment on the anime side of you argument but ive never read an anime book in my life so i dont think it wiuld be fair (i prefer the western style)

CATMANEXE
on Sept. 26, 2009
thinking on it, i feel justified being a little peeved. they advertised these fights, some right on the covers. so they owe me one, thats what i paid for. if they couldnt pull it off for some reason, then why pussyfoot around in the first place. like that Emma Vs Moonstone cover back when, im sure you remember that FoxFireArt. what a jip.

FoxxFireArt is online
on Sept. 26, 2009
@uncanny89:
 I think Exodus could of been dramatically better if they had made it two or three parts. Make the fights last and stretch so we can see what's going on.
The anime fights were long and very epic. They are drawn with enough detail that that feel like screenplays for the animated versions. I should send you a youtube clip of one of the scenes. It's thrilling.
 
 @CATMANEXE: 
I am quite well aware of that cover the the let down it was. There is something about misleading covers. Sort of like covers drawn by super talented artists, but the inside art being lackluster.
It does feel like we were cheated out of some great fight scenes.

Omega King
on Sept. 26, 2009
@FoxxFireArt said:
@Omega King: Thanks, but if you notice the One Piece arc I cited. The story to action wasn't balance. The arc began in late 2004, but the final battle didn't start until early 2006. There were some fights during 2005, but noting on the scale that the story ended with. The fighting that started in 2006 ended in late 2006. That's hardly what I would call a balance. My point here was about not giving fights enough attention. Exodus could of been a much stronger end if the fights had been stretched out to a two or even three part story. "
You mean the dramatic build-up wasn't good enough, leaving the reader displeased

FoxxFireArt is online
on Sept. 26, 2009
@Omega King: 
No, no. When you had talked about the story and action was balanced there. I thought you meant the amount of 'time' they got. When the story build up was longer then the fighting. The dramatic build up was superb. Some of my favorite moments from the One Piece series comes from this story arc.
This are was a very satisfying read.

Omega King
on Sept. 26, 2009
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @Omega King: 
No, no. When you had talked about the story and action was balanced there. I thought you meant the amount of 'time' they got. When the story build up was longer then the fighting. The dramatic build up was superb. Some of my favorite moments from the One Piece series comes from this story arc. This are was a very satisfying read. "
I was talking about the Exodus issue, not One Piece. I agree with you, the One Piece arc was superb to read.

FoxxFireArt is online
on Sept. 26, 2009
@Omega King: 
Oh, talking about Exodus. The story to action was greatly unbalanced in the Utopia/Exodus book. The fights could of been far more epic. I think if they had at least extended Exodus into a 2 or even 3 part story, It would of been much better.

Omega King
on Sept. 26, 2009
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @Omega King:  Oh, talking about Exodus. The story to action was greatly unbalanced in the Utopia/Exodus book. The fights could of been far more epic. I think if they had at least extended Exodus into a 2 or even 3 part story, It would of been much better. "
That's what I meant, and that's what i've been trying to say all this time. XD

rouju
on Sept. 26, 2009

Seriously guys. The reason why I collect TPB is cuz the "shortness" of the issue. Manga is great, but the amount of volume to be collected is, pain the arse (wallet to be exact).

It's great to have comic with epic battle like manga, but how many volume/issue it would take? 

Kinda like have to break the egg to have a scramble egg this time


Mbecks14
on Sept. 26, 2009
the thing i do like better about manga than american comics (though i dont actually read manga) is that it seems like mangas always have direction.  Until recently, and still only in specific cases (unless i'm mistaken), comics were really just story arc after story arc going in a direction only to take a sharp left with a new creative team.
 
what i'm trying to say is that comics arent really building towards something. stories are told just to tell stories, and most of the time they're so disconnected with "continuity" that everything gets muddled and nerds cry.  But with manga, the stories are self contained, the only continuity is within the one book/manga novel, and the plot is going somewhere.
 
i'm having a hard time putting what i'm thinking into words so bear with me. For example, with One Piece (like in the article), Luffy and his gang are pirates, constantly being pursued, each with their own personal goals.  They're trying to get somewhere (i cant remember the name).  So on the other side, take for example Superman's New Krypton, Green Lantern's Blackest Night, and/or Batman's Batman Reborn. They're overreaching story arcs that affect the respective universes of these characters.  but when these stories are done, and new creative teams take over, what's going to happen? they're going to change again. 
 
I finally figured out what i meant to say: Mangas are consistant and self contained.  Where Comics are more loosely interpretted by various creators over an entire universe where problems can occur.

FoxxFireArt is online
on Sept. 27, 2009
@rouju: 
 Trade paperbacks can range from the $15-30(USD). Your average manga volume is between $8-12(USD). You seemed to glance over the part where I talked about the idea of the comics being published in weekly magazines then in trade paperbacks. Not to mention most modern libraries will have some mangas in their collections. The same with comics.
Manga volumes come out every few months. $12 every two to three months is hardly compared to trade paperbacks price tag. Not to mention your average individual comic can range in price of $2.99-3.99(USD).
Add to that, my local bookstore emails me coupons once a week  for 10-25% Off or Buy One get One Free. That makes buying mangas even less expensive.

@Mbecks14:
Well, it's only natural. I covered this in my Previous Article. US comics are going to lack a certain sense of direction when you go from one writer to the next every year to few months. Mangas have one writer or team there of.
 
Luffy's crew are trying to get to the end of the Grand Line to find "One Piece".


  • You must enter the following information to sign up and leave a comment.
  • Type the words above including the space. Get new words?
Errors will go here

Post Reply

Processing....
Let's talk Plagiarism!
Discussing the finer points of what is and isn't plagiarism.
The Hybrid Bastards! Ultimate Challenge! Enter Today!
Here's your chance to get your creative juices flowing and give birth to your own Hybrid Bastard!
Sorry But Here's A Look At Hawkman On Smallville...
Hawkman and the Justice Society are coming to Smallville. Are you ready to see them?
Ultimate Wolverine Is Dead So Who Is Ultimate X?
Looks like we'll be seeing another dude with claws soon...
Comic Vine News: Zombies ATTACK!
Comic Vine gives you the latest news update from the ruins of our studio!
G-Man's Lucky Seven: 11/16/09
Find out what happens when G-Man tries his luck and selects 7 comics to review Vegas style!
McAdams Is Out, Julia Stiles In Talks For Spider-Man 4?
Is she trying out for Black Cat?
Stand-Up Comics! Week Of 11/18/09
Check out Babs' picks for the week!
Sorry But Here's A Look At Hawkman On Smallville...
Hawkman and the Justice Society are coming to Smallville. Are you ready to see them?
Ultimate Wolverine Is Dead So Who Is Ultimate X?
Looks like we'll be seeing another dude with claws soon...
Comic Vine News: Zombies ATTACK!
Comic Vine gives you the latest news update from the ruins of our studio!
McAdams Is Out, Julia Stiles In Talks For Spider-Man 4?
Is she trying out for Black Cat?
Let's talk Plagiarism!
Discussing the finer points of what is and isn't plagiarism.
Smallville Promo Shows More JSA Members!
At first it looked too good to be true.
Here's Another One: Anne Hathaway Approached For Spider-Man 4
Is Sony talking to as many actresses as they can?
The Hybrid Bastards! Ultimate Challenge! Enter Today!
Here's your chance to get your creative juices flowing and give birth to your own Hybrid Bastard!