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Brutally Honest: Darwyn Cooke On How DC and Marvel Must Change

A simple question becomes the center of controversy

You can ask any creator that has been to a comic book convention- and they would probably agree with me- attending a three day convention can be both mentally and physically draining.  For a creator,  having to be "on" for three days, completing commissions for fans, answering questions (some of which catch you by surprise on camera), is not always easy. The occasional slip-up when answering a question on camera you have not been prepped for in advance is something to be expected. Particularly if it is a subject you are passionate about; and if you work in comics, you damn well better be passionate about them.

Writer/artist Darwyn Cooke ( Parker) has been taking a lot of heat since some of what he stated in an interview this past weekend at the Toronto Fan Expo was scrutinized and gone viral. And while I am not defending Darwyn, I can't say I was personally offended by his statement, but I'll let you come to your own conclusion. You can watch the video and read the transcript below.
  
 

Interviewer: "I know you said you wouldn't be going back to Superhero's, right?"
Darwyn: "Yeah, well not in any big way."
Interviewer: "Is there anything you would like to see DC or Marvel change about the way they do business?"
Darwyn: "Yeah I want them to stop catering to the perverted needs of 45 year old men, I want to stop seeing Batman F***king Black Canary, I don't want to hear Batman swearing, I don't want to see him feeding a boy rats. I don't want to see characters getting raped in the a**, I don't want to see characters who have been straight for 60 years become lesbians overnight because the writer's too stupid or uncreative to come up with something decent. I want to see new characters for a new time, and when the industry of superhero comics realizes it's sights to the young people it was meant for, I'll be there with both arms and feet outside."

The comments about Batman are clearly aimed at All-Star Batman and Robin, which, if you read, then you know what I am talking about. However, that isn't the comment that ruffled so many feathers, but the bit at the end about lesbian characters. As The Beat points out, some have considered Darwyn's commentary offensive. But the thing is, Darwyn isn't homophobic- at least I don't think he is. In fact, as pointed out by the gayleague, Darwyn created Argo Bones and Kimball Richards, a gay couple that appeared in his run of The Spirit. If he had a problem with homosexuality in comics, I certainly don't think he would have included a gay couple in his book.

It's clear from the commentary that Darwyn loves comic books and has a real, clear passion for them and for the superhero genre- but that he perhaps longs for the superhero stories he grew up with. While he doesn't come out and state that the lesbian character in question is Kate Kane, we can assume it is she considering the most recent Batwoman title. Darwyn has since responded to the scrutiny at 4th Letter in which he stated:

"I think gay characters are an important and welcome part of any contemporary expression. What I want is to see creators and publishers creating new characters that are gay and lesbian, and spend the decades needed creating and supporting stories about these characters. It strikes me as opportunistic and somewhat wrongheaded to take someone else’s creation and after decades of established character action make that drastic a change."

So now I pose the same question to all of you. As a fan of the comic book genre, how do you think DC and Marvel should change? If so, how? What did you think of Darwyn's commentary?
Theodoreon Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:36 p.m.
hmm he sounds bitter.
sora_thekey moderator on Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:46 p.m.
It is totally understandable when a person is working and tired from a convention to be a bit... bitter.
I don't disagree or agree with the man, and I also think his opinion is valid, especially since we all have an opinion about certain characters, stories and creators.
 
I know a lot of you are huge fans of John Romita Jr's art and I haven't kept it a secret that I believe his art looks sloppy. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and Darwyn is part of everyone, which is why I don't think people's feathers' should be ruffed for this...
 
As for changes... The only thing I would like from DC Comics to change is for some titles to be more new-reader friendly, and Marvel to make some 'events' a little bit better self contained...
Shadowdoggyon Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:47 p.m.

well, it think there's a lot of archeotypes and "classic hero molds" that writers are always trying to live up to or duplicate 
even the idea of the anithero and the counter-culture hero are sort of played out and predictable now 
I think the only way to fascilitate REAL change, is for writers, artists and publishing houses to start putting out comics that break from convention 
and not in that standard "this character is the guy who always breaks from convention" sort of way 
there needs to be more unique voices shown the masses 
more ideas that don't already mirror something we've already seen before 
I think the next generation of writers and creators will be the ones to do it 
and instead of warping the story by turning heroes into villains or bringing back the dead 
they'll make real change 
and start doing what they think it amazing, instead of what has always worked in the past
sfizzleon Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:47 p.m.
I wanna see Frank Miller and Cooke duke it out now.
Mr.Hulk_Smashin'!on Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:47 p.m.
Perhaps.... they should fire Loeb??
And maybe don't have one writer, writing 7 different comics a month.
NoXiouson Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:48 p.m.
The sound clip makes it sound like the change to being a lesbian was way too sudden in the story. Genuine criticism, and people play the homophobe card? Education really is getting worse...
Can't really comment on the All-Star Batman and Robin arc, but it sounds like it's a universe I wont like if they do all the perverted stuff that comes up in the clip. I always pictured Batman as a stoic man with a good sense of honor and duty...
RedHurricane24on Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:51 p.m.
I really didn't find that offensive, and I can agree with the subliminal diss he did to Frank Miller. But his little tidbit about changing straight characters into homosexuals, yeah, that change basically injected new life into Batwoman, for which anybody can attest, was a convenient ploy to discredit Batman's rumored homosexual pedophile tendencies towards Robin.
 
Now, as for how DC and Marvel could change, that's another crime to make for another time.
EnSabahNurXon Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:52 p.m.
 I can see what he means he was just a little harsh in the way he said it i guess. I agree with his thoughts on making a character suddenly gay(after already being established, not against gay characters) because it is annoying when a random writer just uses that as a new story instead of trying to be creative(seems like a cheap route). And i don't like seeing rape depicted in comics either it's in bad taste, it should alluded too but never shown 
(graphically) because young kids do pick up these comics(showing less is stronger than depicting everything). 
Actually i agree with Darwyn overall, batman doesn't need to swear, and some crap in comics is way too pervert and takes away from the overall story&art.    
daak1212on Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:52 p.m.

Kate Kane was only made to make the populace of fans think he wasnt gay.  She was an ill thought creation and to see her changed into a conteporary hero is wonderful.  Did anyone give a shit about her before she became a lesbian?
zzaxon Sept. 3, 2010 at 3:57 p.m.
I would say I agree with some of what was said. I think he is making comment about the darkening of tone of some comics and the useless violence or victimization of characters. I am all for mature comics and violence, but I think what he is referring to is the trend of writers who use these things as lazy tools to shock readers. It seems that both Marvel and DC seems to be shifting back a bit with Heroic Age and Brightest Day. 
 
However, I would disagree with the statement that comics are meant for kids and that somehow DC and Marvel have turned their back on those audiences. Sure there was a bit of innocence to the Silver Age comics, but Stan Lee was trying to tackle adult issues of the time that society permitted. Sure, kids could still enjoy Angel punching Magneto without understanding the metaphors of mutants and discrimination, but that does not mean they were not there. 
 
I would argue that if you had a young child and walked into a comic store now, you have a ton of options. Granted most of the mainstream titles might be inappropriate for younger children, but I think Marvel and DC have a ton of titles catering to all ranges of kids. Things like Tiny Titans, Power Pack & Thor, Teen Titans (animated), Brave and the Bold reach many different ages of children. 
zzaxon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:03 p.m.
@Mr.Hulk_Smashin'! said:
 And maybe don't have one writer, writing 7 different comics a month. "  
 
I completely agree. To a large extent, both Marvel and DC have been guided by one or two creators for a few years now. For DC it does not bother me since I tend to love Geoff Johns. However, I have all but stopped reading Marvel because I really am not a fan of Bendis or his story telling.  
 
In the old days it would be easy to avoid a creator or two you disliked, but Bendis has basically been shaping the marvel universe since Avengers DIsassembled. If you like him great, if not then you are like me and have avoided most of the company's output for years.  
 
I think more diversity of writing duties and perhaps a bit of separation between titles would help avoid that.
Joey Ravnon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:07 p.m.
Yeah, I read this yesterday at Gay League. Funny enough, I'm not gay, but I usually go to "minor sources" for information :P I agree with Darwyn to a certain extent. Changing the sexual orientation of a well-established character overnight is disastrous. It doesn't matter if they go from straight to gay, or gay to straight, and for that matter, any major aspect of that character's personality: it's completely unrealistic and illogic, and it usually responds to marketing reasons.   
 
As for the violence and "maturity" of some comics... Well, I think both DC and Marvel have enough room for different approaches to their characters. They can afford an "All-Star" brand for Batman, where he screws whatever he wants and tortures Dick Grayson, and the mainstream continuity where Batman is Batman... or Batmen now. To each their own.
Sasuke12on Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:09 p.m.
I completely agree with Darwyn. 
Political correctness is creeping in on the comics.
Nowadays comic artists are focusing on accomodating more provocative female and gay superheroes into mainstream comics and promoting their ideological or political agenda onto people's faces.
 
The traditional message and image of heroism is being faded away with time.
cbishopon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:11 p.m.

I agree with him 99% (the bit about comics being intended for kids is baloney).  Making a character gay that hasn't been gay is completely opportunistic, and smells strongly of "sales gimmick."  If Batwoman had been left a straight character, fans would have dumped her for her costume looking too much like a female Batman Beyond costume.  Renee Montoya being lesbian and becoming a costumed character at the same time as Batwoman's intro was just ridiculous.  Oh, and she had a relationship with Kate Kane, because clearly she's the only other lesbian in Gotham. 
 
He is spot on: create a new character that's gay or lesbian, and build them from the ground up, on their own merits, instead of changing something that's come before for your own story needs.  It's poor writing, and poor editing to let that happen.  Gay and lesbian groups are so quick to jump on any comment that sounds like it's not 100% pro-gay/lesbian.  Cooke's comment wasn't anti-gay/lesbian, it was anti-bad writing. 
 
Also, as a completely politically incorrect aside, if the gay/lesbian community truly wants equality, then part of that is receiving the same amount of negativity as everyone else.  I get trashed for being a stereotype - white, slightly overweight, close to 40, and a fan of comics - but I'm supposed to just man up and deal with it, or I'm a "fanboy nerd," or perhaps in a few years, a "perverted...45 year old man."  If someone says something even remotely anti-gay/lesbian though, it's a "hate crime."  Why should you get special treatment because someone doesn't like you?  Well, man up and deal with it.  Please understand: I'm against bigotry, and strive to eliminate it from my life, but I also get tired of hearing people whine every time something remotely negative comes their way.  Protesting the Westboro Baptist Church is one thing, but Cooke's comment was not aimed at the gay/lesbian community.

Manchineon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:13 p.m.
@Sasuke12 said:
"I completely agree with Darwyn.  Political correctness is creeping in on the comics. Nowadays comic artists are focusing on accomodating more provocative female and gay superheroes into mainstream comics and promoting their ideological or political agenda onto people's faces.   The traditional message and image of heroism is being faded away with time. "

@sora_thekey said:

"It is totally understandable when a person is working and tired from a convention to be a bit... bitter. I don't disagree or agree with the man, and I also think his opinion is valid, especially since we all have an opinion about certain characters, stories and creators.

SirSparkingtonon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:17 p.m.
@daak1212 said:
" Kate Kane was only made to make the populace of fans think he wasnt gay.  She was an ill thought creation and to see her changed into a conteporary hero is wonderful.  Did anyone give a shit about her before she became a lesbian? "
I agree. Beforehand she was just a golden age character made too dissuade rumors of Batman being gay. 
Hamzon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:20 p.m.
His comments feel justified. Most of the time the decision to change an established character's sexual orientation would be to either generate interest in a character who's losing popularity. Or because the publisher feels the need to have a token homosexual character within their roster. In short what he's getting at is the contrived nature such a decision would come across as. 
 
Honestly the biggest problem with Marvel and DC is that they have no idea how to breathe new life into what is slowly becoming a very stagnant industry. Instead of actually becoming creative with fresh ideas and characters they go back to the same old ones and either retcon them or run them into the ground.
Mr.Hulk_Smashin'!on Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:22 p.m.
@zzax said:
" @Mr.Hulk_Smashin'! said:
 And maybe don't have one writer, writing 7 different comics a month. "  
 I completely agree. To a large extent, both Marvel and DC have been guided by one or two creators for a few years now. For DC it does not bother me since I tend to love Geoff Johns. However, I have all but stopped reading Marvel because I really am not a fan of Bendis or his story telling.   In the old days it would be easy to avoid a creator or two you disliked, but Bendis has basically been shaping the marvel universe since Avengers DIsassembled. If you like him great, if not then you are like me and have avoided most of the company's output for years.   I think more diversity of writing duties and perhaps a bit of separation between titles would help avoid that. "
Exactly. And here are some great points.
 
  • It would create a few more job opportunities
  • We would get a fresh angle
  • Character Development. Do you honestly think Bendis and Johns have enough time to develop EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER THEY WRITE?!
  • Life experience: You may have one run with a major company, but you could use that and write your own book series, or start your own company
And I'm sure there are more.
Same with artists! They're people too! Everyone needs a break and some time to think.
daak1212on Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:24 p.m.

I agree with the rape,  I kinda dont wanna see it but I would like the allusion of the charecter being rape.  Dont dumb down the story but dont make it lude. 
Who cares if Batman swears?  If Joker kills a bus fileld with kids and I was Batman I think I would drop the F bomb.  Also who cares that batman had relations with Black Canary or that he was a pchycopath.  We understand that you Cooke think that he should fit into a archetype but really there is so much that can do because you have to create new villians to fit the era since Batman cant change and then we would probably never see the villian again.  Batman being shown in this light isnt disgusting, it makes for a great story.  I would pay to See Captain America as a deshevled war vet but thats just me.  Also notice this was not to mainstram Batman but this was a sideproject, an alternate reality if you will
TwistedBishopon Sept. 3, 2010 at 4:25 p.m.
People agreeing with Cooke on Batwoman's presto-chango should bother to look up the fact that Kate Kane (the current Batwoman) is an original character who has always been gay.   Cooke's comment makes about as much sense as complaining that Batgirl suddenly became asian.

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Canadian comic book artist and writer, who established himself first in animation, later to fulfill his comic book creator ambition.

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