Why I don't really like the Fourth World

Posted by RazzaTazz (9478 posts) - - Show Bio


The Fourth World are those collection of characters based on either Apokolips or New Genesis.  Throughout my years of reading comic books I have found these to be some of the least engaging characters in comics.  Not only one, but two, big DC crossovers have been sort of ruined by an over reliance on them (Legends and Final Crisis).  Here are a few reasons that I am not such a big fan.

 

Complete Lack of Imagination in Their Names and References to Stuff on Earth

Darkseid has an ominous sounding name, and actually sounds intimidating, but why spell it the German way?  Doesn't this sort of all into the concept that all Germans are villains?  DeSaad the sadistic torturer?  Kind of like the Marquis de Sade from where we get the term sadism.  Artemiz the bow using assassin?  Well the connection to the Greek God Artemis is pretty clear.  Orion?  That is not even a play on the writing of the name, just a direct rip-off.  On the other hand you have a few which are completly lacking inspiration - Lightray and Highfather?  those aren't names as much as descriptions.  There are a few names which I like - Mister Miracle, Granny goodness, Kalibak, but so many of the rest are uninspired. 

 

Poorly Defined Reasoning for Hating Earth 

Darkseid controls his own world with an iron fist and has been successful through the years of publication history of occasionally being able to destroy New Genesis.  I never found out his fascination with Earth though.  In some senses I guess it could comprise some sort of personal vendetta against Superman or other hteroes who have helped stop him over the years, but mostly he has no real reason to hate Earth any more than any other planet, yet he is never shown with even the slightest bit of interest in those either.  He is constantly dividing his forces for differrent battlesgrounds which weakens his overall effort. 

 

No writer will ever be able to write an adequate explanation for what the anti-life equation is

This has been hinted at over the years and sometimes actually defined but it has been either represented as a ball of energy available behind the source wall or just a sequnce of words which somehow represent the opposite of life.  That equation is "loneliness alienation fear despair self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment" but I don't see how knowing that allows Darkseid infinite power. 


Pantheons Missing

Unlike Earth the planets of New Genesis and Apokolips have only one belief system as opposed to the hundreds there are on Earth.  No one on new Genesis has come up with the concept of polytheism or something more internal like Eastern religions.  Granted they have a pretty obvious example of their gods on a day-to-day basis, but it still seems strange that no one has thought of anything else.  In fact for how many times Superman has intervened to save the worlds you would think some would regard him as a god. 

 

Gods?

So what really makes these guys gods anyway?  Granted Darkseid is pretty tough and can usually outfight Superman, but there is really nothing which makes these characters gods.  DeSaad is the god of torture?  Granny Goodness is the goddess of feeding porridge to children?  The only one of these which ever showed any orginality was Mister Miracle, the god of escaping, but I don't know who would pray to him (other than thousands of office workers on Friday afternoon.)   The gods don't really have a traditional god-like role either as they have no real temples or oracles.   

 

A general lack of continuity

Darkseid and his minions are usually just thrown in whenever the is no need for a superpowered bad guy with no real reason for doing what he is doing (for instance the already mentioned miniseries Legends or Final Crisis.)  Compounding this is that he acts differently from time to time.  Once in the Birds of Prey he didn't care that a group of heroes had invaded Apokopolis.  On the other hand another time when the Suicide Squad invaded he got pretty upset.  Other times he has tortured Wonder Woman for the knowledge of where the new home of the Olympian gods is, though what he was planning with that information was also not clear, nor did he ever really try and figure it out again afterwards. 

 

 

 

I am sure there are fans out there who will want to defend the whole concept.  I am not really opposed to it, it just that it is not very compelling.  As with any in comics I am mostly here for the writing, so when the writing resorts to cliches and unoriginality (as it most often does with the fourth world) it leaves me wanting more.

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#1 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

dont you be talkin trash them be Jack Kirby creation, Peace be upon him.  : /

they were very original for their time.  >=[

#2 Posted by Coolii (286 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Darkseid he is a great villain....

#3 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Really?

The Fourth World is fantastic. Additionally, most of your points counter themselves. You criticise the names as being unoriginal, then dislike the fact that the gods of the Fourth World don't follow the same pattern as those of other pantheons.
 With regard to the Continuity issue, you can't dismiss a concept because of poor writing. Grant Morrison and Jack Kirby know how to write the New Gods. Walter Simonson is pretty good too. Jim Starlin, Jeph Loeb and anyone else don't understand the concept, and thus fails miserably at writing them.


The Anti-Life Equation has been explained several times. It is the concept by which all individualism is extinguished and all become the User. It's not about infinite power, it's about the obliteration of thought, and all becoming One. All becoming Darkseid. 

#4 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel the same. It's not that i don't like the Fourth World stuff and the New Gods, I just don't find them interesting. Other than Darkseid and the Female Furies, the rest of the characters from the fourth world are just sort of uninspired.

#5 Posted by GundamHeavyarms (701 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack Kirby probably didn't think that all germans are evil, just the Nazis who he fought in World War II, and Kirby being Jewish probably held even stronger resentment towards them. 

Darkseid is fascinated by earth not solely because of Superman, but because to him earth is the ultimate representation of free will.  Darkseid HATES free will.  The anti-life equation won't give him anymore physical power, he doesn't need it, if he wanted to conquer the universe using sheer force he would have done it already.  The anti-life equation will allow him to eradicate free will, which to him will mean total and complete victory.

The New Gods call themselves Gods, they have advanced abilities, technology, immortality, and exist in a plain outside of space and time, that's why you have to use a boom tube to get there.


I hope you were joking about Granny Goodness being nice, she is anything but nice. 

#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (14219 posts) - - Show Bio

They've owned the other so called Gods more than once.
One goal fools,die for Darkseid.The concepts are fascinating,seriously.It's just that morons like those Countdown writers and Loeb got their hands on them.Final Crisis was hijacked due to stupid editorial.

#7 Posted by entropy_aegis (14219 posts) - - Show Bio

Where's Atphantom btw? he'll show the disbelievers.I personally find the Fourth World and the GL mythos to be the most interesting out of all in DC.It is these franchises which will shape DC's cosmic mythology.

#8 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

RazzaTazz... You're crazy. :P
But most of your points are based on faulty information or lack thereof. Let me go through it.

 

Complete Lack of Imagination in Their Names and References to Stuff on Earth

You hit the point in the last part. Their names are supposed to be descriptions. Every god is based around a certain concept or principle, and the name is supposed to reflect that. So yeah, Dessad is called Dessad because the name "De Sade" invokes sadism in our minds. Same with others. Orion is a huntsman, LIghtray is a ray of light, literally and metaphorically, etc. granted, the point about it being rip offs of other things in Earth's history is true, but I don't think it's that important.
As for Darkseid, I don't think it even is German. I think Kirby just thought it sounded cool.
 

Poorly Defined Reasoning for Hating Earth

Not true. His reasons for hating Earth are clearly defined. Humans have within their mind the pieces to the anti-life equation, which Darkseid seeks to control the universe. Darkseid wants the equation badly, and getting it means slogging through a few million human brains and annihilating anyone who would have a problem with that, which unfortunately means every hero ever.  Apart from that (and the fact that those pesky humans have been a thorn in his side for so long), it's not a case of hating Earth, it's a case of hating EVERYTHING. Remember that Darkseid is not complacent to stay on his world, he seeks to conquer and dominate the whole universe. That is one of his fundamental traits, and it's only through the efforts of New Genesis that he is kept at bay. In case New Genesis fails, Earth would only be the first stop.

Then of course there is the more metaphysical view, that the story is told from human perspective. If there is an evil God who hates everything, he's not going to come and conquer the plant aliens of Procyon Alpha-6 first, he's gonna come here. But I digress.


No writer will ever be able to write an adequate explanation for what the anti-life equation is

Chalk this up to Jim Starlin's fetish for glowing balls of unlimited power, which in general runs against much of Kirby's original ideas. In fact Kirby's original depiction of the equation is just that, an equation. It is the mathematical proof that free will doesn't exist. Uttering it will convince anyone who hears it in the absence of free will, thus destroying their spirit and placing them under your power. Acquiring it wont give Darkseid unlimited power in the sense of moving galaxies with thoughts and stuff, but it will give him dominion over every mind in the universe.

 Pantheons Missing

... I'm sorry, I don't get this. Are you complaining that they don't believe in more gods, or that there aren't more gods? If it's the firs, well they are all basically gods already. They worship the Source not out of any belief, but more out respect because they already know it is real. It talks to them on a daily basis after all. And I would love to see anyone on Apokolips worshiping anyone but Darkseid. :P

 If it's the other, well given that there is more than one God, I'd say they're pretty polytheistic now.

 

Gods?

They are gods because they are metaphysical manifestations of of various concepts. Like gods are supposed to be. it doesn't hinge upon their power level or ability to fight Superman. It hinges upon their symbolism. Dessad? Yes, he is the god of torture. And pain. And general sadomazohism. Granny Goodness? Godess of child abuse, oppression, indoctrination, etc. really, every original Kriby god has a meaning. Orion? God of war. Mister Miracle? God of freedom and will. Kalibak? God of brutality and savagery. Lightray? God of hope, charisma, etc. Darkseid? Tyranny, evil. Highfather? Benevolent authority, good. Forever people? Spirit of youth, teenage rebellion. The list goes on.

As for oracles and temples, Walt Simonson did a stab at that in an issue of Orion, but nevertheless I'd like point out that gods don't need temples. People need temples as a place of worship. Gods shouldn't give a damn


A general lack of continuity

 Yeah, I can't argue there. The worst part about New Gods is that they are generally written by people who either don't understand them, or simply use them as foils for other characters. Like Fade said, Morrison, Ostrander and others get what the New Gods are about. Unfortunately, guys like Starlin, Byrne and Loeb, who have written the wast majority of stories over the last two decades, have no frickin idea. So yeah, you're right. New gods haven't been very compelling these in the past, but this isn't because of the concept itself, which IMO is pretty damn awesome, but because it has been treated by very sub par writers. The concept itself has indeed given some pretty amazing stories, so I think you're being unfair by nixing the whole thing just on account of the bad parts you've read.

 I am sure there are fans out there who will want to defend the whole concept.

I am so predictable...



#9 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I happen to love the Fourth World but I agree with you on many points, especially about the lack of imagination in the names.  Clearly there was inspiration from the Greco-Roman as well as Norse pantheons when creating the mighty characters of New Genesis and Apokolips.

#10 Posted by warlord1234 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:

RazzaTazz... You're crazy. :P
But most of your points are based on faulty information or lack thereof. Let me go through it.

 

Complete Lack of Imagination in Their Names and References to Stuff on Earth

You hit the point in the last part. Their names are supposed to be descriptions. Every god is based around a certain concept or principle, and the name is supposed to reflect that. So yeah, Dessad is called Dessad because the name "De Sade" invokes sadism in our minds. Same with others. Orion is a huntsman, LIghtray is a ray of light, literally and metaphorically, etc. granted, the point about it being rip offs of other things in Earth's history is true, but I don't think it's that important.
As for Darkseid, I don't think it even is German. I think Kirby just thought it sounded cool.
 

Poorly Defined Reasoning for Hating Earth

Not true. His reasons for hating Earth are clearly defined. Humans have within their mind the pieces to the anti-life equation, which Darkseid seeks to control the universe. Darkseid wants the equation badly, and getting it means slogging through a few million human brains and annihilating anyone who would have a problem with that, which unfortunately means every hero ever.  Apart from that (and the fact that those pesky humans have been a thorn in his side for so long), it's not a case of hating Earth, it's a case of hating EVERYTHING. Remember that Darkseid is not complacent to stay on his world, he seeks to conquer and dominate the whole universe. That is one of his fundamental traits, and it's only through the efforts of New Genesis that he is kept at bay. In case New Genesis fails, Earth would only be the first stop.

Then of course there is the more metaphysical view, that the story is told from human perspective. If there is an evil God who hates everything, he's not going to come and conquer the plant aliens of Procyon Alpha-6 first, he's gonna come here. But I digress.


No writer will ever be able to write an adequate explanation for what the anti-life equation is

Chalk this up to Jim Starlin's fetish for glowing balls of unlimited power, which in general runs against much of Kirby's original ideas. In fact Kirby's original depiction of the equation is just that, an equation. It is the mathematical proof that free will doesn't exist. Uttering it will convince anyone who hears it in the absence of free will, thus destroying their spirit and placing them under your power. Acquiring it wont give Darkseid unlimited power in the sense of moving galaxies with thoughts and stuff, but it will give him dominion over every mind in the universe.

 Pantheons Missing

... I'm sorry, I don't get this. Are you complaining that they don't believe in more gods, or that there aren't more gods? If it's the firs, well they are all basically gods already. They worship the Source not out of any belief, but more out respect because they already know it is real. It talks to them on a daily basis after all. And I would love to see anyone on Apokolips worshiping anyone but Darkseid. :P

 If it's the other, well given that there is more than one God, I'd say they're pretty polytheistic now.

 

Gods?

They are gods because they are metaphysical manifestations of of various concepts. Like gods are supposed to be. it doesn't hinge upon their power level or ability to fight Superman. It hinges upon their symbolism. Dessad? Yes, he is the god of torture. And pain. And general sadomazohism. Granny Goodness? Godess of child abuse, oppression, indoctrination, etc. really, every original Kriby god has a meaning. Orion? God of war. Mister Miracle? God of freedom and will. Kalibak? God of brutality and savagery. Lightray? God of hope, charisma, etc. Darkseid? Tyranny, evil. Highfather? Benevolent authority, good. Forever people? Spirit of youth, teenage rebellion. The list goes on.

As for oracles and temples, Walt Simonson did a stab at that in an issue of Orion, but nevertheless I'd like point out that gods don't need temples. People need temples as a place of worship. Gods shouldn't give a damn


A general lack of continuity

 Yeah, I can't argue there. The worst part about New Gods is that they are generally written by people who either don't understand them, or simply use them as foils for other characters. Like Fade said, Morrison, Ostrander and others get what the New Gods are about. Unfortunately, guys like Starlin, Byrne and Loeb, who have written the wast majority of stories over the last two decades, have no frickin idea. So yeah, you're right. New gods haven't been very compelling these in the past, but this isn't because of the concept itself, which IMO is pretty damn awesome, but because it has been treated by very sub par writers. The concept itself has indeed given some pretty amazing stories, so I think you're being unfair by nixing the whole thing just on account of the bad parts you've read.

 I am sure there are fans out there who will want to defend the whole concept.

I am so predictable...



John Bryne New Gods story was good much better then Morrison the reason why people Grant work was because he made Darkseid powerful which appeal to fun brcause they perceive has a powerful(which he is). The original new god story written by Jack Kirby was  philosophical exploring the nature of god and evil. Is being a god person or a bad person innate or learned and it also explored the concept of nature vs nurture such has Orion learing to control the rage he has inherited from Darkseid it allows to think would Orion would ave been like his father if he was raise on apokolips. In the original run Orion did not really give into a fit of anger because he was ashame of his dark nature being raise on New Genesis and tauht to vaule peace, justice and beauty he tried his best to hold on to the ideal Highfather has bestored upon. But what i like the most was the friendship between Orion and Lightray it shows that people who are totally different can be good friends. The only people in my  options whos stayed true to the new gods are Jack Kirby, Mark Evanier, Tom Peyer, John Bryne and Walt Simsonson.
#11 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said:
John Bryne New Gods story was good much better then Morrison the reason why people Grant work was because he made Darkseid powerful which appeal to fun brcause they perceive has a powerful(which he is). The original new god story written by Jack Kirby was  philosophical exploring the nature of god and evil. Is being a god person or a bad person innate or learned and it also explored the concept of nature vs nurture such has Orion learing to control the rage he has inherited from Darkseid it allows to think would Orion would ave been like his father if he was raise on apokolips. In the original run Orion did not really give into a fit of anger because he was ashame of his dark nature being raise on New Genesis and tauht to vaule peace, justice and beauty he tried his best to hold on to the ideal Highfather has bestored upon. But what i like the most was the friendship between Orion and Lightray it shows that people who are totally different can be good friends. The only people in my  options whos stayed true to the new gods are Jack Kirby, Mark Evanier, Tom Peyer, John Bryne and Walt Simsonson.
I don't have a problem with Darkseid's power during Byrne. I have a problem with Byrne fundamentally not getting the New Gods. Hell, I don't think a single writer of the nineties actually understood the fact that Darkseid is, in his core, a god of order. The entire sequence of Genesis where Darkseid allies with the old god of chaos was a complete and utter WTF? to me. This whole idea of order as tyranny versus chaos as freedom that was essential to their conflict was completely lost on the mainstream writers, who simply figured it's just good vs bad and ran with it. This and other tidbits (Like forgetting Orion had a freaking wife!) show just how much they didn't get the New gods aside from the basic plot points.
Morrison wanked the "cosmicness" of the New Gods, as he often likes to do, but he stayed true to the original themes Kirby set down. If he didn't explore the personal themes of various characters, it's only because his format and the stories he wanted to tell didn't give him the chance. And Morrison was pretty much the only one who more or less managed to replicate Kirby's adorable weirdness which made the original so good.
And of course the fact that Morrison is an infinitely better writer than the other guys should go without saying.

Though I may be a bit too harsh on them. My complaints are mostly directed at Byrne himself. I liked Evanier's run a lot (though it suffered from a chronic lack of direction), Simmonson was pretty awesome and Peyer was okay. Byrne to me was uninspired, uninteresting, and plain wrong.
#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24601 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe it was once stated that the New God Orion was supposed to be the inspiration for the mythological hero Orion, who the constellation was named after. If thats the case then his name is no less creative than Marvel's Thor or Hercules 

#13 Posted by Omega-Man (761 posts) - - Show Bio

The only complaint I have about the New Gods is that  they are very brifely mentioned Orion for example needs to be put out more and often too often he is seen to be lower than Superman in stories. I like the New Gods and what they stand for it's only how they are written into other books when they fall short. And obviously from reading your statement you haven't read any new God story or anything about Darkseid. So Really the thing is you should pick up some things with The New Gods in that are NOT involved with other DC heroes.

#14 Posted by warlord1234 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
@warlord1234 said:
John Bryne New Gods story was good much better then Morrison the reason why people Grant work was because he made Darkseid powerful which appeal to fun brcause they perceive has a powerful(which he is). The original new god story written by Jack Kirby was  philosophical exploring the nature of god and evil. Is being a god person or a bad person innate or learned and it also explored the concept of nature vs nurture such has Orion learing to control the rage he has inherited from Darkseid it allows to think would Orion would ave been like his father if he was raise on apokolips. In the original run Orion did not really give into a fit of anger because he was ashame of his dark nature being raise on New Genesis and tauht to vaule peace, justice and beauty he tried his best to hold on to the ideal Highfather has bestored upon. But what i like the most was the friendship between Orion and Lightray it shows that people who are totally different can be good friends. The only people in my  options whos stayed true to the new gods are Jack Kirby, Mark Evanier, Tom Peyer, John Bryne and Walt Simsonson.
I don't have a problem with Darkseid's power during Byrne. I have a problem with Byrne fundamentally not getting the New Gods. Hell, I don't think a single writer of the nineties actually understood the fact that Darkseid is, in his core, a god of order. The entire sequence of Genesis where Darkseid allies with the old god of chaos was a complete and utter WTF? to me. This whole idea of order as tyranny versus chaos as freedom that was essential to their conflict was completely lost on the mainstream writers, who simply figured it's just good vs bad and ran with it. This and other tidbits (Like forgetting Orion had a freaking wife!) show just how much they didn't get the New gods aside from the basic plot points. Morrison wanked the "cosmicness" of the New Gods, as he often likes to do, but he stayed true to the original themes Kirby set down. If he didn't explore the personal themes of various characters, it's only because his format and the stories he wanted to tell didn't give him the chance. And Morrison was pretty much the only one who more or less managed to replicate Kirby's adorable weirdness which made the original so good.And of course the fact that Morrison is an infinitely better writer than the other guys should go without saying. Though I may be a bit too harsh on them. My complaints are mostly directed at Byrne himself. I liked Evanier's run a lot (though it suffered from a chronic lack of direction), Simmonson was pretty awesome and Peyer was okay. Byrne to me was uninspired, uninteresting, and plain wrong.

His Jack Kirby ran was good because he went deep into the new god myth. But i did find it kind of confessing with Bryne making Orion Darkseid first born son despite Kailbak being born first (the moment Tigra was pregnant Darkseid had her in a hperfreeze machine). The reason why i liked it because it foucs more Scot Free who is also an important character because he was part of the pact which had a big impact on both character but they always foucs on Orion. The story was good the only thing i was not pleased with was John Bryne adding new stuff that contradicted things that happen in the past.
#15 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said:
His Jack Kirby ran was good because he went deep into the new god myth. But i did find it kind of confessing with Bryne making Orion Darkseid first born son despite Kailbak being born first (the moment Tigra was pregnant Darkseid had her in a hperfreeze machine). The reason why i liked it because it foucs more Scot Free who is also an important character because he was part of the pact which had a big impact on both character but they always foucs on Orion. The story was good the only thing i was not pleased with was John Bryne adding new stuff that contradicted things that happen in the past.
This is true, but I felt he went about it in completely the wrong way. I didn't like almost none of the changes or expansions Byrne made to the mythos. His Scott Free also felt bland to me and a far cry from the awesome Scott Free of Giffen's JLU.
#16 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole concepts seems dumb to me but was probably the sh!t when hippies were popular in america and stuff.

Would never read any of that stuff even if it was the last comic book on earth

#17 Posted by RazzaTazz (9478 posts) - - Show Bio
@Omega-Man said:
 So Really the thing is you should pick up some things with The New Gods in that are NOT involved with other DC heroes.
I might not have read a ton of them, but I have read a few issues here and there.
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#18 Posted by Omega-Man (761 posts) - - Show Bio
@RazzaTazz:

Take it from me, I never used to like them and I  was perhaps the most uninformative of the New Gods untill a few weeks ago till I picked up a few comics and read them. They are really good as long as they don't involve Superman or any other DC hero besides themselves. After all DC has a bad habbit of down playing some great heroes just because there flag ship hero or hero of a story arc are present.
#19 Posted by RazzaTazz (9478 posts) - - Show Bio
@Omega-Man : I know that believe me.  In a lot of cases that even applies to Wonder Woman, as DC has a habit of focusing on Clark and Bruce
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#20 Posted by Omega-Man (761 posts) - - Show Bio
@RazzaTazz:

Yes like they down play Captain Marvel (Shazam) also.

But it's not just flag ship but also heroes of a story arc have even down played Flag ship characters Blackest Night was a good one since it was focused more on Barry and Hal. I still don't get how Barry got the ring of hope when really Superman should have gotten it. But yeah just examples there.
#21 Posted by warlord1234 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
@warlord1234 said:
His Jack Kirby ran was good because he went deep into the new god myth. But i did find it kind of confessing with Bryne making Orion Darkseid first born son despite Kailbak being born first (the moment Tigra was pregnant Darkseid had her in a hperfreeze machine). The reason why i liked it because it foucs more Scot Free who is also an important character because he was part of the pact which had a big impact on both character but they always foucs on Orion. The story was good the only thing i was not pleased with was John Bryne adding new stuff that contradicted things that happen in the past.
This is true, but I felt he went about it in completely the wrong way. I didn't like almost none of the changes or expansions Byrne made to the mythos. His Scott Free also felt bland to me and a far cry from the awesome Scott Free of Giffen's JLU.

I think his touch on Scott Free was good because he was struggling with his identity we use to seeing Scott Free being a high spirted person and a free minded individual. But i agree that what Bryne did with Orion was weird and strange.
#22 Posted by COBRAMORPH (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

My only problem with them is that they are equal parts gods but also superheros. If you view Darkseid as the same Loki, Set, Typhon, Mika-Boshi, Satan etc, then its easier. I have no problem seeing Orion as the DC version of Thor or Hercules.

Lightray however, would be better if he were rebooted as a regular DC Superhero.

As for their names, Zeus may sound cool, but its just derived from a regular word from a foreign language. Though it was the 70's, I'm sure it sounded better back then. & Darkseid is hell of a lot better than Dark Side.

#23 Posted by Night Thrasher (3603 posts) - - Show Bio

So how do you feel about the other Kirby creations; Inhumans and Eternals?

#24 Posted by RazzaTazz (9478 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: They are ok, I don't read Marvel that much though

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