why is Namor and X-men?

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#51 Posted by SC (12914 posts) - - Show Bio

I am sure this has already been explained multiple times, since I didn't bother to read page 2, only page one but SELENE is like 15 000 YEARS OLDER than APOCALYPSE and a mutant in that she has an X-GENE. That and NAMOR is also a MUTANT that has an X-GENE. He is not a mutant like Thanos is a mutant, as in genetically mutated from his own people, but hey in that sense all of us are technically mutants.  
 
Namor being referred to as the First Mutant isn't mean to be chronological accurate within the story, but you know the real world? Can we remember the real world time to time? That and there is a in narrative story also explaining how he was the first mutant to be famous after his pre World War 2 encounters with John Hammond, hence the first to really be publicly known, in the subjective sense. You know how humans are, prone to assumptions that turn out wrong.          

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#52 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

if you want to be completely accurate the first openly known mutant in the Marvel universe was the side kick of the original Human Torch, Toro, it was known from the start that he was born with his powers despite both of his parents being normal humans due to a mutation.

#53 Edited by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@mettlekm said:

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@Killer_of_trolls: *sigh* I was implying you were a troll, your name is Killer of Trolls, so I was asking how you hadn't killed your self. Get it?

I liked it! Even before explanation! Trolls never really did have a sense of humor... might be a sore subject with him.

@SHAZAM117: he's not just an atlantean. He can breathe air and fly and is superstrong. therefore he is a mutant Atlantean.

edit: I'm assumng the breathing air thing is because his dad was human, but the flying and superstrength is from the x-gene.

no, he is mutant demi-atlantain(his father is human), and the mutant part is still debatable because the only proof of it is handbooks. Also, if what I said had anything wrong with it, then it would be funny, I did get it from the beggining, and it doesn't remotlely make sense in relation to the OP, but as a random joke in regard to the my username. As far as I see it he is the troll, and that is no joke.

@Rheged said:

He's allied with the X-Men now, because of a deal he made with Emma Frost while they were in the Cabal together, as explained in Uncanny X-Men Annual #2. This apparently was set out in an official treaty he has with the X-Men, as explained in Namor the First Mutant Annual #1.

there we go. you sir just gave the only relevant/correct answer I wanted to hear. thank you. end thread

#54 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@SHAZAM117 said:

I love Namor, he's one of my favorite MARVEL characters...but the whole 1st mutant title is BS...A-poc is supposedly the "1st mutant" or at least one of them. I think A-poc is like over 2000yrs old or something. I don't think of Namor as a mutant like Cyclops or a Morlock, those characters carry the "X-gene" that gives them their powers...Namor is just an Atlantean. I just personally viewed them as another species on MARVEL earth....I think MARVEL dubbing Namor as the "1st Mutant" and adding him to the XMEN is them trying to spark life into one of their original characters that needed to be refreshed/retooled

Namor carries an x-gene. He was later revealed (read: retconned) into having one. It has been like this for a long time.

It was their way of explaining his ability of flight.

Apocalypse isn't the first mutant historically, even though he's been stated as being so.

#55 Posted by mettlekm (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killer_of_trolls:no, he is mutant demi-atlantain(his father is human), and the mutant part is still debatable because the only proof of it is handbooks.

And the cover of his own comic, as rheged pointed out. Not much of a debate there.

#56 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@mettlekm: actually that is a huge conterversial debate. Haven't you ever debated in a battle forum before. The majority always disregards and stands against the cover and its content. example: Hulk holding an entire 150 billion kg canyon by himself with his bare hands(written), and the cover art shows him holding it all above the parallel of his palms(it may be different for other cover versions). Yet, we don't care for that, and rely on the inside pages that where we established he is only keeping the portion above/close to them and the rest is touching the ground. I mean wtf is that number it's more mass than the moon.

#57 Posted by Rheged (620 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

He's the 1st publicly KNOWN mutant.....

Remember... Apocalypse was sleeping until he woke after his thousand year prep...

But anyways, this is just Earth's history. There is also Thanos the mutant of Titan. It is debatable whether he or Apocalypse is older.

Meaning... No one knew about Apocalypse because he was asleep. He's always been there. Inside the Celestial ship.

I said this already.

first mutant known to the general public = the 1st publicly KNOWN mutant

Apocalypse, and his sleeping history, is a retcon, as he was created in the 80s, while Namor was created in 1939. In story, he's the second historical mutant, behind Selene (another retcon).

@SHAZAM117 said:

I love Namor, he's one of my favorite MARVEL characters...but the whole 1st mutant title is BS...A-poc is supposedly the "1st mutant" or at least one of them. I think A-poc is like over 2000yrs old or something. I don't think of Namor as a mutant like Cyclops or a Morlock, those characters carry the "X-gene" that gives them their powers...Namor is just an Atlantean. I just personally viewed them as another species on MARVEL earth....I think MARVEL dubbing Namor as the "1st Mutant" and adding him to the XMEN is them trying to spark life into one of their original characters that needed to be refreshed/retooled

Ironically, naming Namor a mutant back in 1963, was probably an attempt to give the brand new X-Men characters some validation and push. Namor was much more well known back then. And it really doesn't matter what you think of Namor's mutant status, Marvel has stated, repeatedly, over 50 years, that Namor is a mutant and he has the X-Gene. Your headcanon doesn't trump real canon.

@joshmightbe said:

if you want to be completely accurate the first openly known mutant in the Marvel universe was the side kick of the original Human Torch, Toro, it was known from the start that he was born with his powers despite both of his parents being normal humans due to a mutation.

Nope. Namor appeared BEFORE Marvel Comics #1, in Motion Picture Funnies in April 1939. Toro's first appearance is Human Torch #2 in 1940. IIRC. I've no idea when Toro was named a mutant, but I thought it was revealed recently. Toro's origins are all messed up, honestly, but originally, I believe, he got part of his powers from radiation or his parents being irradiated. Most mutants aren't born with their powers. They manifest their mutant powers when they hit puberty or are under stress, as Namor did when his ankle wings sprouted back in a 50s Atlas era story by Bill Everett called "Wings on His Feet."

@mettlekm said:

no, he is mutant demi-atlantain(his father is human), and the mutant part is still debatable because the only proof of it is handbooks. Also, if what I said had anything wrong with it, then it would be funny, I did get it from the beggining, and it doesn't remotlely make sense in relation to the OP, but as a random joke in regard to the my username. As far as I see it he is the troll, and that is no joke.

No. Namor's possession of the X-Gene does not appear solely in handbooks. It has appeared within the comics. I think it was in Second Coming when he was targeted by Bastion and the Nimrods, and also in Uncanny X-Men Annual #2, when the Sentinels sent by Shaw to Atlantis zeroed in Namor and Emma. I'm pretty sure it's appeared elsewhere, though I can't recall exactly where. I know Mr. Sinister referred to Namor as homo superior in Weapon X #14 before he cloned him.

@greenteaforme said:

Namor carries an x-gene. He was later revealed (read: retconned) into having one. It has been like this for a long time.

It was their way of explaining his ability of flight.

Apocalypse isn't the first mutant historically, even though he's been stated as being so.

Since the X-Gene is a retcon, Namor (and the O5) possession of it had to be revealed later.

#58 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rheged: I know Namor appeared before Toro, my point was that Toro was the first Marvel character that they called a mutant in the books, Namor's mutant genes weren't brought up until long after so while yes Namor is technically their first Mutant character, Toro was their first known mutant as far as actual published story lines go. Namor wasn't stated as a mutant until a few decades after his first appearance.

#59 Posted by Rheged (620 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Rheged: I know Namor appeared before Toro, my point was that Toro was the first Marvel character that they called a mutant in the books, Namor's mutant genes weren't brought up until long after so while yes Namor is technically their first Mutant character, Toro was their first known mutant as far as actual published story lines go. Namor wasn't stated as a mutant until a few decades after his first appearance.

I'm not as familiar with Toro. When was he first called a mutant in the books? I didn't think it was in the Golden Age, as the term wasn't used that much in literature until the 50s.

#60 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rheged: He was dubbed a mutant by his own mother in the early stories, tho it isn't clear whether he is an x-gene mutant or not and it wasn't really treated as a major thing back then more just a convenient excuse to give a teen side kick similar powers to the main hero of the book.

#61 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

@Killer_of_trolls: he isn't a x-gene mutant but he is defined as a mutant and decided to join up with the x-men

Well he might be a X-Gen Mutant. Remember in the second X-Men movie they said the X-Gen was carried from the father. And Namor's dad was Leonard McKenzie after all.

#62 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: that is stupid, and I already flagged that comment. Nothing is there written to imply me being a troll, and it turns out I was right about it in the first place.

*shakes head*

If he's going to flag you, he should edit that post where he called you an a$$hole without censors......My 2 cents

#63 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

He has an X-Gene, and he's atlantean/human

#64 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't he physically stronger than the Average Atlantean?

#65 Posted by Idayos (6 posts) - - Show Bio

what is this what is camicvine

#66 Posted by Idayos (6 posts) - - Show Bio

tell me or else i will do what i have to

#67 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2 said:

Isn't he physically stronger than the Average Atlantean?

Yes he's nearly class 100 while the Average Atlantian is around the 10 ton range

#68 Posted by Rheged (620 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Rheged: He was dubbed a mutant by his own mother in the early stories, tho it isn't clear whether he is an x-gene mutant or not and it wasn't really treated as a major thing back then more just a convenient excuse to give a teen side kick similar powers to the main hero of the book.

I went digging through my books and I think that's a retcon of a sort. Toro's origin is told in the Golden Age Human Torch #2, where his parents died in a train wreck, while he proved immune to the flames from the wreck -- with no explanation.

It isn't until 1977, in Invaders #22, where that origin is expanded / retconned to where his mother was exposed to radiation as a scientist working for Horton, and she explains Toro is a mutant to Torch.

So, Namor was called a mutant before Toro in print well before Toro. In fact, the mutant revelation about Toro comes to light, because Namor and Toro have a similar reaction to a drug, and Torch explains it is because Toro is like Namor, a mutant.

#69 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rheged: Could've sworn I had seen somewhere where he was called a mutant way back thin but I can't be sure

#70 Posted by Rheged (620 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Rheged: Could've sworn I had seen somewhere where he was called a mutant way back thin but I can't be sure

Well, 1977 is "way back then" for many now. :)

And I didn't read all of the Golden Age Torch stories, but in the Grand Comic Book Database, Nora Raymond, Toro's mom, only gets four entries. The origin story I mentioned in Human Torch #2, the Invaders origin story I mentioned, the Marvel Projects mini (which retconned out the circus ties, IIRC), and the Torch mini (which retconed Toro's origin again by giving him Torch's synthetic cells). I'm sort of surprised she wasn't in the Saga of the Original Human Torch mini. I'll see if I can dig that out ... but it came out in 1990.

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