Should Namor Be Held Responsible For The Destruction Of Wakanda?

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#151 Edited by Ballistic_z (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF said:

He should be held accountable for his actions and so should Scott and the others.The only one i would give a free pass to is to Colossus but even then i probably wouldn't because he chose to become Juggernaut. (im actually upset they took that from him) But just hink what he had going on in his head. He was such a passive person that loved and saw the good in just about everyone, taking on the Juggernaut persona to save his sister from going down that path. Then had the Phoenix Force thrusted on him (this could be said for all 5 of them) But while the others had to deal with one cosmic force. Peter, who is a gentle person at heart, was dealing with two cosmic forces of destruction and even then only tried to help people and animals alike. While he seemed to have lost his mind in thinking that whales should have legs and didnt take into account their weight (which he could have also helped with). The only thing i remember him trying to destroy is his sister. Did he ever really harm anyone?

Really only Colossus ?even after scott said "no more avengers" and the avengers came in and kid napped both hope and transsonic and "hawK eye" was caught and near death thanks to namor which scott chose to heal him(hawk eye) after he said that "no more avengers" statement all before namor did that thing to wakanda and was bashing scott for it prior to all that on not being a ruthless ruler and not letting Hawk eye die as namor wanted .

But does any one choose to remember this? Noooooooo. Most likely cause their reading from articles and wiki pages and not the actual comic issues.

they almost will let some one like colossus have a pass, but not Scott who said they don't need to go that far with avengers even though he said no more avengers and said then while saving hawk eye they have to show compassion.

the phoenix was indeed a part of the problem for sure after the part of the power that left Namor went into colossus and Magik, it turned brother on sister and after it left them it went into and made scott worse mentally also all from Namors bad personality and habits caused by Tony stark putting it in him of all people (which it takes apart of you when it leaves) and the phoenix was in rage mode, cause it was angered too.

All Due to the avengers actions . Never mind they kept poking the bee's nest repeatedly with attacks too to a place where student live and kidnapped some students . And hawk eye said nothing on cyclops saving his life.

Oh man this is interesting.

.

#152 Posted by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ballistic_z said:

Really only Colossus ?even after scott said "no more avengers" and the avengers came in and kid napped both hope and transsonic and "hawK eye" was caught and near death thanks to namor which scott chose to heal him(hawk eye) after he said that "no more avengers" statement all before namor did that thing to wakanda and was bashing scott for it prior to all that on not being a ruthless ruler and not letting Hawk eye die as namor wanted .

But does any one choose to remember this? Noooooooo. Most likely cause their reading from articles and wiki pages and not the actual comic issues.

they almost will let some one like colossus have a pass, but not Scott who said they don't need to go that far with avengers even though he said no more avengers and said then while saving hawk eye they have to show compassion.

the phoenix was indeed a part of the problem for sure after the part of the power that left Namor went into colossus and Magik, it turned brother on sister and after it left them it went into and made scott worse mentally also all from Namors bad personality and habits caused by Tony stark putting it in him of all people (which it takes apart of you when it leaves) and the phoenix was in rage mode, cause it was angered too.

All Due to the avengers actions . Never mind they kept poking the bee's nest repeatedly with attacks too to a place where student live and kidnapped some students . And hawk eye said nothing on cyclops saving his life.

Oh man this is interesting.

.

Scott said no more Avengers...

That seems like a pretty closed case. Im not saying he was trying to harm anyone (besides killing Xavier) and i agree he did choose to heal Hawkeye but didn't he heal him and then tried using him to get information on the Avengers? (honest question)

No if they would have had a more kind hearted 5th member who knows how well the X-men would have been and how they would have changed the world. As time went one (before members started losing their connection to the Phoenix Force) Scott seemed more and more like a unbending force that gave two options; conform or die.

#153 Edited by Ballistic_z (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF said:

@Ballistic_z said:

Really only Colossus ?even after scott said "no more avengers" and the avengers came in and kid napped both hope and transsonic and "hawK eye" was caught and near death thanks to namor which scott chose to heal him(hawk eye) after he said that "no more avengers" statement all before namor did that thing to wakanda and was bashing scott for it prior to all that on not being a ruthless ruler and not letting Hawk eye die as namor wanted .

But does any one choose to remember this? Noooooooo.Most likely cause their reading from articles and wiki pages and not the actual comic issues.

they almost will let some one like colossus have a pass, but not Scott who said they don't need to go that far with avengers even though he said no more avengers and said then while saving hawk eye they have to show compassion.

the phoenix was indeed a part of the problem for sure after the part of the power that left Namor went into colossus and Magik, it turned brother on sister and after it left them it went into and made scott worse mentally also all from Namors bad personality and habits caused by Tony stark putting it in him of all people (which it takes apart of you when it leaves) and the phoenix was in rage mode, cause it was angered too.

All Due to the avengers actions . Never mind they kept poking the bee's nest repeatedly with attacks too to a place where student live and kidnapped some students . And hawk eye said nothing on cyclops saving his life.

Oh man this is interesting.

.

Scott said no more Avengers...

That seems like a pretty closed case. Im not saying he was trying to harm anyone (besides killing Xavier) and i agree he did choose to heal Hawkeye but didn't he heal him and then tried using him to get information on the Avengers? (honest question)

No if they would have had a more kind hearted 5th member who knows how well the X-men would have been and how they would have changed the world. As time went one (before members started losing their connection to the Phoenix Force) Scott seemed more and more like a unbending force that gave two options; conform or die

No more mutant was pretty final too. and your for getting about characters like chamber(at first) who's power keeps them alive , otherwise he'd be dead. did it stop scarlet witch . Unfortunetly no. did it stop the stupid the racist purisfiers from hunting down people that weren't mutants any more? no, they still saw those former mutants as mutants and still killed them cause they used to be mutants and right at the school the X-Men had too in many issues . It didn't stop them all it ment is that those mutant students couldn't protect them selves and they blew school bus's no less.

did it stop some former mutants from taking their own lives as soon as they noticed they didn't have their mutant powers after SW said that. unfortunately no. :(

As for what you said with Scott. No he didn't scott as you saw or should have seen scott was concerned with other things as you saw and Namore was chewing him out for not doing what he wanted and that was to be ruthless that's kind of what your assuming and where Namore wanted scott to head down. I'm sure Namor would have want scott to Torture

hawk eye as well. Which he(scott) didn't, hawk eye escaped as soon as he was healed. Not a thank you from him ether or him questioning him self like he did in the Tas after hulks actions when he first met and fought him and saved from tank fire.

So this is kinda unfair . And one more thing I'd like to also say if some one took some body that is related to you, your not going to ask questions on that relative where about's ?

They kidnapped two students one that ralated to scott and another that was a student trans sonic. And you know damn well cap America would have asked if the tables were turned. And should have. That's what your supposed to do. They were under his care.

Batman would do it and no one questions it on why he's asking that to some that kidnapped someone that's related to him or lives with him or is close too. The real point here is if they'd do it the in the style Punisher would. Which is the nasty way which would be Torturing. that's what makes you not a kind person. the method and action you choose while doing so.

IF he had just left the kidnappers that would be some thing that makes every thing even worse. "ohh " "It's ok, you can kidnap my grand kid of who I promised my son I 'd protect as well make sure she become what was suspected of to become. people will dump on him for that and in that manner it'd make more sense to dump on him .

So many things here being said are becoming very interesting.

#154 Posted by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ballistic_z:

Well you got me.... I agree with you

#155 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

totally. Namor is a dooooooouuuuuche.

I don't really care about the others. Maybe Emma because well she's Emma. Cyclops I dont even know.

but yeah Namor should totally get his ass handed by Black Panther. Like, totally

#156 Posted by DarkDay (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@Novemberx2 said:

wanda just de-powered mutant kind, mutant kind was never actually a race, they were just humans with the mutant gene, you don't call people with genetic dis-orders un-human. Secondary she never killed them! Namor just went and slaughtered innocent people! so yes namor should be held responsible but he's not alone

the poor writing behind AvX should also be held responsible!

The problem there however is that a great many mutants died because Wanda depowered them. Or because of the consequences there of. Am I the only one that remembers Magma watching a man burn to death in a volcano? You can't claim that she didn't kill people when she had direct involvement in a lot of people's deaths and honestly the murders and suicides of quite a few more.

#157 Posted by Lapsus (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigMaraSpence:Totally agree

And of course, he is responsible

#158 Posted by Vance Astro (91235 posts) - - Show Bio

If Iron Man was held accountable for Civil War & Secret Invasion then Namor should be accountable for this. Namor & Black Panther are both good guys so nothing more than possibly an epic battle will ensue.

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#159 Posted by Rheged (620 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO at some of these responses.

@Babs said:

... where Namor, at the bidding of Emma Frost, attacks Wakanda, murdering T'Challa's people

The question is, however, was the destruction of Wakanda really Namor's fault?

The dialogue between Scott and Emma indicates that it wasn't Scott who did those horrible things, it was the power of the Phoenix Force. Yet, it's hard to determine whether this applied only to Scott, or if it applied to all members of the Phoenix Five.

In that scene, Scott tells Emma that she "knows it wasn't him," in reference to the murder of Charles Xavier and his betrayal, but Emma seems to disagree. So, was that really Scott who did all those terrible things, or was it the Phoenix Force? If this was all just the Phoenix, should these characters be held responsible for their actions? Following the events of AVENGERS VS. X-MEN Scott Summers was imprisoned for the damage he had caused while under the influence of a power he could not control. But was his imprisonment warranted? Should he be held responsible for the murder of Charles Xavier? And also, should Namor be held responsible for the death and destruction of Wakanda and Black Panther's people?

The way that these two characters (Scott and Namor) had evolved over the last few years might give us a better clue as to how their actions should be judged. Over the last several years Namor's relationship with Black Panther has soured, particularly during the Black Panther run during Dark Reign. During that time it appeared as if Namor had struck a deal with Dr. Doom that allowed Doom to attack Wakanda and cripple the country, taking its resources (Vibranium).

So was this the Phoenix doing all the destroying and the killing, or was this the Phoenix merely enhancing these characters and their abilities and shutting off their inhibitions? How much of what happened was the Phoenix, and how much was these characters? What do you think? Do you think Namor should be held responsible for the destruction of Wakanda, and if so, what should Black Panther do about it?

I have to disagree with you on these two bolded bits, Babs. Phoenix Emma didn't tell Phoenix Namor to attack Wakanda. Phoenix Emma's target, like Phoenix Namor's, was the Avengers. They both agreed that Phoenix Scott didn't see the situation they were in and stronger measures were needed. All Phoenix Emma did was tell Phoenix Namor where he could find their mutual enemy. Blaming the woman for Phoenix Namor's action's is somewhat misogynistic.

Namor wasn't allied with Doom to attack Wakanda. That was just poor, unclear writing on Hudlin's part. It's clear from his encounter with Shuri, and the fact that he helped the FF and Shuri take down Declan, Doom's ally, that Namor wasn't on Doom's side or aware of what was going on there.

We only have to look at Namor's past to see that he would not have normally dropped a tidal wave on Wakanda. Yes, he took this action once, when he was a teen-ager and inexperienced with the surface world, but apparently, it affected him so, that he NEVER DID IT AGAIN. Despite the fact that he's always had the ability to do so. In all his invasions and struggles with the surface world, he's never resorted to that option. So, clearly, there's a difference between Namor and Phoenix Namor.

#160 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (936 posts) - - Show Bio

i just want to see Namor get the shit kicked out of him, he's such a dickdick -_-

#161 Edited by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

And Wakanda finally gets its revenge.

Honestly Namor should have seen this coming. Like Wakanda was going to pretend like nothing happened.

If Namor wanted peace he should have offered up some apology or something as repentance. Otherwise prepare for a long bloody war, because without the Pheonix Force powering him Wakanda just curbstomped Atlantis.

Now peace is off the table. Only way I see this ending is with Namor dieing or Wakanda and the Black Panthers being killed.

Take your bets

#162 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (936 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading New Avengers #8, i'm happy seeing Namor suffer... mwahahahaha =D

#163 Posted by GoldenGuardian (18 posts) - - Show Bio

He has not been spoiled by the phoenix force, beautiful women are his real weakness :D

#164 Posted by ajones363 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Why not blame T'Challa? After all, he kidnapped Transonic and held her captive in Wakanda. That was why Namor went there and destroyed Wakanda in the first place

#165 Edited by GrenadeFlow (1531 posts) - - Show Bio

Why not blame T'Challa? After all, he kidnapped Transonic and held her captive in Wakanda. That was why Namor went there and destroyed Wakanda in the first place

Yeah like Namor went there because of Transonic

#166 Posted by Squares (6644 posts) - - Show Bio

By general X-men rules, he was posessed, ergo he's not responsible.

#167 Edited by TimeLordScience (956 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually on Namor's side. I agree he's a douche bag, but I think what Black Panther allowed to happen (or at least is totally apathetic about said happening) to innocent Atlanteans was not justified. Black Panther and the New Avengers are not possessed, yet seem to feel no empathy toward Namor about his loss at all.

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