Can Moonstone be redeemed?

#1 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio

Before her coma, Karla Sofen seemed like she was on her road to recover and becoming a hero.
Afterwords, she replaced Osborn's medication with placebo's, planned to kill team member Songbird, pretended to be Ms. Marvel through Dark Reign, slept with everyone, killed, etc.
But now she's back in the Thunderbolts, and it strikes me as if the story may lead her to being redeemed.  Can this be done?  Has she gone too far off the deep end?  Could it be done without being forced?

#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, she was good at one point? I never heard of her until the Civil War T-bolts and I don't EVER see her straying from being the evil b!tch she is.

#3 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio

Moonstone will always be a bad-girl in my eyes and I love it. [:  she's so manipulative, so people will always trust her and try to change her, but it can't be done. ^_^ yay.

#4 Posted by Shanana (53466 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope so

#5 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123:  She was gaining a conscious more and more during the earlier T-Bolts stuff.  Like saving her team from the vacuum of space when she could have just ran for it. She was even becoming a mother figure to the member Jolt.   But she still had her bad side, like when she mentored Gravatron into getting into his full potential.
@Cherry Bomb:  I'm just curious now, because when she says things like "Cage is a true hero," it sounds like they might be evolving her.
@Sha:  I'm just wondering how this will change the Songbird/Moonstone rivalry if it does happen.
#6 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly wish they would just kill her off.Karla hasn't been a cool character since Classic Thunderbolts.From Civil War on i've been wanting her to just leave Marvel for ever.She sucks now.I'm sick of Marvel throwing good characters down the drain for the f#ck of it.

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#7 Edited by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca:  Moonstone is double-sided. When she wants to be good, she can be really, really good. But when she's bad, she's vicious. [:  that's why love her.  She's not an anti-hero, she's either a villain or a hero and it's hard to predict which one she is lol
#8 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Sadly, she's more popular in this new persona.  But the thing is, can they fix her?  Parker seems like he might be trying to do that.  And besides, she is filling a gap you don't see that much now of horrible female who just messes with people.  It's much more fun when you have the Songbird/Moonstone rivalry.
#9 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: Yeah, but I'm sure you can't be considered a hero if you killed in cold blood one too many times.
#10 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
" @Cherry Bomb: Yeah, but I'm sure you can't be considered a hero if you killed in cold blood one too many times. "
I'm sure lots of heroes have killed people,  but that's the beauty of Karla.
One minute she's protecting people, helping, saving ... the next she' part of an evil team killing people. 
she's good at adapting and playing off of people.
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
" @Vance Astro: Sadly, she's more popular in this new persona.  But the thing is, can they fix her?  Parker seems like he might be trying to do that.  And besides, she is filling a gap you don't see that much now of horrible female who just messes with people.  It's much more fun when you have the Songbird/Moonstone rivalry. "
I don't know.If people like her as a whore then what can they do to her to make her better? I don't get it.How anyone can actually like Moonstone at this point is beyond me.She was a terrible Ms.Marvel and all she did in Dark Avengers was sleep with people.She has 0 feats in that entire comics.She got embarrassed by Deadpool in the comic she took over and ruined.I don't like Songbird and Moonstone as a rivalry.I feel Songbird is the much better character and always has been she she will never get the recognition she deserves.Marvel doesn't know what they have.They create all these good characters (which is damn near the sole reason I even like Marvel) and then they mess it up by doing a bunch of random things with them (which is the reason i'm starting to dislike Marvel).How hard is it to create a good character and consistently progress them as a character? I don't like Moonstone's manipulative personality.They have other characters that are better at it.I don't know what Marvel is going to do with Moonstone but i'm bored with her.
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#12 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Your Songbird bit?  Completely agree. It's absolutely MADDENING how much she's being pushed to the side now.  She's a minor character in her own book!  I swear, if there's a female character Marvel should be pushing, it should be SONGBIRD!
And I think the problem is that the Avengers is the story setting the whole Marvel U.  It can squat on any other series, like say Alpha Flight, for the sake of progressing it's story.   I also think that Moonstone is popular because she was made a central character in Dark Reign.  People actually know who she is.  Well, somewhat.  Some people actually thought she was Carol Danvers the whole time.
All I'm saying, I agree with you that Marvel is ignoring A LOT of great characters for a limited few.
#13 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
" @Vance Astro: Your Songbird bit?  Completely agree. It's absolutely MADDENING how much she's being pushed to the side now.  She's a minor character in her own book!  I swear, if there's a female character Marvel should be pushing, it should be SONGBIRD! And I think the problem is that the Avengers is the story setting the whole Marvel U.  It can squat on any other series, like say Alpha Flight, for the sake of progressing it's story.   I also think that Moonstone is popular because she was made a central character in Dark Reign.  People actually know who she is.  Well, somewhat.  Some people actually thought she was Carol Danvers the whole time. All I'm saying, I agree with you that Marvel is ignoring A LOT of great characters for a limited few. "
The answer of the question..Can Moonstone be Redeemed? I think it's possible.However it depends on who Marvel is going to let write the books she's in.It also depends on the event.I think Bendis is responsible for Ms.Marvel's book getting cancelled.She was doing well during Civil War and Initiative..all that Secret Invasion and Dark Reign stuff destroyed the book.Brian Reed is the perfect writer for Carol in my opinion because he really made her a special female character.I like the way he wrote her personality and her intelligence.Not so thrilled about how he worked her emotions but..whatever.I think what Marvel has been doing with Moonstone since she was on Norman's Thunderbolts has been detrimental to the character and even now, I guarantee they will hinder her.They make her seem like she's a big deal because they refuse to take her off the Thunderbolts but outside of that book she really has no significance.I've seen no worthwhile cameos.If they've learned nothing from Deadpool, they should have learned that over exposure of a character gets results.
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#14 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: I think they're milking Deadpool WAY too much now.  There's gonna be a crash in interest in him very soon.  Also, the internet made Deadpool as popular as he is now.
But I think that's the other thing, right now, only the Avengers are the book paving way for the universe.  More specifically, New Avengers.  I heard people dropping books like T-Bolts because they view them as "Not important" to the overall Marvel U.  And that right there is a very bad philosophy.
#15 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
" @Vance Astro: I think they're milking Deadpool WAY too much now.  There's gonna be a crash in interest in him very soon.  Also, the internet made Deadpool as popular as he is now. But I think that's the other thing, right now, only the Avengers are the book paving way for the universe.  More specifically, New Avengers.  I heard people dropping books like T-Bolts because they view them as "Not important" to the overall Marvel U.  And that right there is a very bad philosophy. "
But they don't have to.Marvel doesn't think.If you whore a character out that much (which they were already doing to Hulk,Spider-Man & Wolverine) all you have to do now is have him do something significant so all his random cameo appearences won't be for nothing.Wolverine was a minor character in House of M but his presence was needed.The whole "I'm the only one who can see what's going on" thing was just what he needed to be significant to that event. I'm sick of Avengers books and I made the "Avengers Thread",I used to be a huge Marvel\Avengers fanboy and now it's like they don't care about anything but money.They don't give half their character roster the recognition they deserve.They won't even tell you were SOME characters are at.I haven't seen Echo since Secret Invasion.Where is she? Don't know.It hasn't been mentioned since the first Avengers issue after the event and NOTHING was revealed.Thunderbolts to me is Heroes for Hire with a bunch of randoms thrown in.Why do they insist on making Luke Cage lead teams.He's has NEVER been a good leader.Ever! What is even the point of the Thunderbolts at this point? When the Avengers were gone and they were covering for them.They were significant.Trying to rehab a bunch of villains who probably will just become villains again is silly!
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#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@doordoor123 said:
" Any hot slut can be redeemed in my book. As long as they remain a "hot slut" "
........
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#17 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @doordoor123 said:
" Any hot slut can be redeemed in my book. As long as they remain a "hot slut" "
........ "
I take that back LOL.
i dont say things like that. Erase that from your memory. 
That was out of character for me. I think im hanging out with the wrong people lol
#18 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Apparently, Parker chose Cage as the leader over Hawkeye.  I was pretty upset at it, but I'm getting used to it.  But what's annoying is that every other Solicit coming out is "Luke Cage confronts Purple Man!" and "Luke Cage needs to save his friend so he uses the T-botls!"  I just don't want the series to become Luke Cage and the Thunderbolts.
And about redeeming the characters, half of them just seem irredeemable.  Crossbones you just can't save.  Juggernaut, though they made him good in the past, will always devolve back to being evil.  He's more well known as a baddie, so saving him seems like it will be undone even if they try.  Ghost so far has shown the most interests in redeeming.  Hell, he was pretty much there during the end of Siege.  Then there's Moonstone, which this topic is around.
Overall, the T-Bolts seem to be at it's most uneven now.  And it does kill me how the original members are now so peripheral in their own series.
#19 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb said:
" @Cafeterialoca said:
" @Cherry Bomb: Yeah, but I'm sure you can't be considered a hero if you killed in cold blood one too many times. "
I'm sure lots of heroes have killed people,  but that's the beauty of Karla. One minute she's protecting people, helping, saving ... the next she' part of an evil team killing people.  she's good at adapting and playing off of people. "
I'd agree with that.
There's nearly alwayssome alterior motive for Moonstones behaviour too.
I've been reading her since the original T' bolts :)
#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
" @Vance Astro: Apparently, Parker chose Cage as the leader over Hawkeye.  I was pretty upset at it, but I'm getting used to it.  But what's annoying is that every other Solicit coming out is "Luke Cage confronts Purple Man!" and "Luke Cage needs to save his friend so he uses the T-botls!"  I just don't want the series to become Luke Cage and the Thunderbolts. And about redeeming the characters, half of them just seem irredeemable.  Crossbones you just can't save.  Juggernaut, though they made him good in the past, will always devolve back to being evil.  He's more well known as a baddie, so saving him seems like it will be undone even if they try.  Ghost so far has shown the most interests in redeeming.  Hell, he was pretty much there during the end of Siege.  Then there's Moonstone, which this topic is around. Overall, the T-Bolts seem to be at it's most uneven now.  And it does kill me how the original members are now so peripheral in their own series. "
Well I can see why.Hawkeye was more morally sound before he was killed 3 times.Luke Cage confronting Purple Man doesn't excite me in the least bit.I don't even want to see that.Purple Man is a pathetic villain.If ever his pheromones don't work he's really just a purple man.Luke Cage already beat blood out of him in the Breakout arc of New Avengers. With her long time membership they might as well had made Moonstone the leader.I'm so sick of Luke Cage.
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#21 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: I'm surprised that they didn't give the leadership back to Songbird.
One thing that the Marvel U is lacking right now is Female leaders.  The only other one I can think of right now is Nomad leading the Young Allies!
#22 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Cherry Bomb said:
" @Cafeterialoca said:
" @Cherry Bomb: Yeah, but I'm sure you can't be considered a hero if you killed in cold blood one too many times. "
I'm sure lots of heroes have killed people,  but that's the beauty of Karla. One minute she's protecting people, helping, saving ... the next she' part of an evil team killing people.  she's good at adapting and playing off of people. "
I'd agree with that. There's nearly alwayssome alterior motive for Moonstones behaviour too. I've been reading her since the original T' bolts :) "
mmhmm. :D  She's knows exactly what to do and when to do it. I love characters that are cold and calculating. It's so much better than the usual boring characters like Wolverine and Deadpool who just stab and shoot and then that's it. :/
#23 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Cherry Bomb said:
" @Cafeterialoca said:
" @Cherry Bomb: Yeah, but I'm sure you can't be considered a hero if you killed in cold blood one too many times. "
I'm sure lots of heroes have killed people,  but that's the beauty of Karla. One minute she's protecting people, helping, saving ... the next she' part of an evil team killing people.  she's good at adapting and playing off of people. "
I'd agree with that. There's nearly alwayssome alterior motive for Moonstones behaviour too. I've been reading her since the original T' bolts :) "
mmhmm. :D  She's knows exactly what to do and when to do it. I love characters that are cold and calculating. It's so much better than the usual boring characters like Wolverine and Deadpool who just stab and shoot and then that's it. :/ "
Wolverine's not always been boring.
He's just been way over used :(
 
Only time I remember liking Deadpool was in the old Joe Kelly/ Ed McGuinness series. 
The draw there was the humour. Wasn't into the character at all and still can't get interested in him. Can't take him seriously in context with the rest of Marvel.
#24 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas: His whole style is boring and it's nothing original. He just kills and murders and is overpowered to a very high extent. Which is what happens to most characters with healing factors.
 
Moonstone can die, so she does use her talents in a manipulative way to get what she wants and take out her enemies.
#25 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
 
I totally agree.
Wolverines healing factor seems to have gone off the scale in recent years.
Doe make him less interesting.
#26 Posted by iLLituracy (13494 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, I do believe she can be redeemed. 
 
Though, I'm sort of upset that she was turned into the team hooker. 

#27 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Cherry Bomb:   I totally agree. Wolverines healing factor seems to have gone off the scale in recent years. Doe make him less interesting. "
Totally, When you see Wolverine or Deadpool on a 'life or death' situation, it just doesn't have the same effect as seeing, Scott or Emma Frost or any other X-Man since you know Wolverine will come out without a scratch.
#28 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
 
To be honest Cherry I'm gettin' kinda bored with a lot of the mainstream stuff these days 'cause we know everyone, healing factor or not, is comin' home without a scratch.
Only a matter of time before Nightcrawler's back and bamfing just fine :(
 
It weakens the stories.
 
You read Fatal Attractions?
Magneto ripped out Wolvie's addamantium and it actually took time for him to heal. One of my favourite X-stories.
#29 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas:  I wanna see Jean return and Wolverine to be dead for a year ... even though that will never happen.
hm, true.  The whole stupid M Day incident means that we don't see any fresh faces in the X-Men.  Don't even mention Hope, she's a stupid character IMO.
 
& no I haven't read that.
#30 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
 
I'm not a fan of Hope either. I prefer despair :P
I think Marvel need to work with some of the mutants they've got rather than bringing in new ones. I mean cna they really come up with that many truly original powers after all these years?
 
I think the whole M day thing was the wrong way to go.
Personally I'm losing heart with the X-stuff though.
 
You should track down Fatal Attractions. Good story. I used to sell bit's on ebay and might even have one or two issues still sat around.
#31 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas:  was that a joke? :P dude, that was terrible.
 Hope is just the love child of Mimic and Jean.
 
New Mutants isn't the same, since Dani Moonstar is depowered and has one leg. Hellion has robotic hands now .. it's just all gone to crap. Pixie is over publicised and she has that dagger thing,   :/ 
 

#32 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
 
See I'm really not sure about Pixie at all.
Is she even a mutant or are they eventually gonna tell us she's the child of Oberon the fairly king? 
I mean What powers has she got? Teleportation, the soul blade things, big fairy wings and pixie dust? That's too much for a mutant. I'm used to mutants with one or, in a few cases, two powers.
I hope she fades like Jubilee. But I kinda Jube :(
#33 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas: Well she's like, half mutant
since her dad is Mastermind or something.
 
She's just another Illyana, since she can teleport, use magic and has the soul blade.
and yeah, her pixie dust can create uknown illusions .. which explains why she's Masterminds 3rd daughter
 
Jubilee deserves to have her powers back  !!!!!  I love jubes.
#34 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
But wasn't Master mind a mutant too?
Surely that'd just make her antoher mutant. Magneto's kids all had human parents (I think) and they're full mutants.
 
I wish in culling telepoters they'd offed her and kept Nightcrawler :(
#35 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas:  Yes, that's why I said she's half-mutant and half fairy or whatever, since Mastermind is a mutant ....
 

#36 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb: 
 
Do we know who her mum is?
Or should I just head on over to her page? :P
#37 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas:  well since this is comicvine, heading over to her page would be easier.
#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91416 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cafeterialoca said:
 The only other one I can think of right now is Nomad leading the Young Allies! "
And that book won't even last...
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#39 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  well since this is comicvine, heading over to her page would be easier. "
Her mum is some kinda fairy type.
Didn't realise she'd been around as long as she has either.
#40 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3179 posts) - - Show Bio

 @Gylan Thomas said:

" @Cherry Bomb said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  well since this is comicvine, heading over to her page would be easier. "
Her mum is some kinda fairy type. Didn't realise she'd been around as long as she has either. "
meh. who cares.
#41 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2662 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cherry Bomb said:
"  @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Cherry Bomb said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  well since this is comicvine, heading over to her page would be easier. "
Her mum is some kinda fairy type. Didn't realise she'd been around as long as she has either. "
meh. who cares. "
Not me :)
#42 Posted by daredevil21134 (12705 posts) - - Show Bio

She can be redeemed if she sleeps with Daredevil
#43 Edited by Eyelash30 (130 posts) - - Show Bio

Moonstone could never be redeemed as the sociopath she is; her wiki bio alone has her tied to Nazi criminals, she murdered her mother, and even manipulated her patients into suicide. Dr. Karla Sofen is a textbook narcisistic antisocial personality type, period. While she has the percepts for moral causes, her actions come down to what she wants. She is the early comic book transcribe of Hannibal Lector; an intelligent and immoral "caregiver" who corrupts her position over others mental health. In the end she's a shallow mercenary & criminal, its only to her best interests that she fights other criminals.

#44 Edited by SoA (5259 posts) - - Show Bio

im actually sick of villains being redeemed . given some of them go back to being bad, but it just gets tiring . especially when i liked them a lot more as villains than heroes

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