Khonshu

#1 Posted by warcorpse (433 posts) - - Show Bio

I just re-read the first vengeance of the moon knight arc, and one thing that irritates the hell out of me is the portrayal of  
khonshu. Houston and benson made him a bloodthirsty, vengeful god. this is from wikipedia. 

"His name reflects the fact that the Moon (referred to as Aah in Egyptian) travels across the night sky, for it means traveller, and also had the titles Embracer, Pathfinder, and Defender, as he was thought to watch over night travelers. As the god of light in the night, Khonsu was invoked to protect against wild animals, increase male virility, and to aid with healing. It was said that when Khonsu caused the crescent moon to shine, women conceived, cattle became fertile, and all nostrils and every throat was filled with fresh air." I liked it when moon knight fought for khonshu instead of khonshu urging moon knight to kill. Anyone agree?

#2 Posted by Bearded Justice (751 posts) - - Show Bio

I do agree with you, but that wikipedia thing sounds waaayyyyy off.  I've looked Khonshu up in a few books and I dont remember any of that. 
Maybe Im just crazy. 
#3 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio

As a someone who's following a PHD in history I can definitively say that the Khonshu of Moon Knight is not the mythical Khonshu by any stretch...

#4 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Writers didn't do research when it comes to ancient mythologies? What else is new? Anyone who read a Greek myth knows Hades is not an evil God, but that doesn't stop story after story portraying him as the devil. Same thing here.

#5 Posted by warcorpse (433 posts) - - Show Bio

Khonshu was never seen as the egyptian devil, that was Apep but you're right.. i mean, without khonshu whats the point of moon knight?  you could call him "captain technology" cause thats what he is.

#6 Edited by ~The Wanderer~ (34406 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe he's channeling an Aztec god. : )

#7 Posted by Bearded Justice (751 posts) - - Show Bio

It may not be Khonshu at all, really.  Marc could just be completely wacko, and seeing things. 
Just a thought.
#8 Posted by G Bird (1280 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a comic book, it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect.

#9 Edited by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing is, if you're about to use mythological figures, do your research otherwise it cheapens the whole character and narration... 
 
I mean it's not like there aren't enough blood thirsty gods to choose from. So why bastardize Khonshu into the innacurate incarnation he has in the comics? 
 
Just use a different mythological deity with the right persona for Moon Knight, much more simple and more sensical.

#10 Posted by ~The Wanderer~ (34406 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach: Is there any blood thirsty enough lunar deity to use though?
#11 Posted by warcorpse (433 posts) - - Show Bio

There should not be a blood thirsty god used. he's trying to redeeme himself
#12 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
  Sticking to Egyptian Lore: They should have found a better name for the character as the Moon is a peaceful thing in their religion, really when you think about it. Moon Knight makes no sense for an Egyptian inspired "hero"
As for a bloodthirsty Egyptian god without a Lunar aspect, they already had one ripe for use:
They could have used Set, he's a bloodthirsty war god, but his demonization in popular culture is not his real mythological incarnation. In the Early Kingdom, Set was the one who protected Ra when he entered to Underworld and battled Set. The change to a more evil deity came with the Later kingdom and the ascendancy of Osiris to importance (despite the fact that started off as a very minor deity). But even then, the mythological Set is not like the devil like Set we always see on TV and Comics.
 
But for a bloodthirsty lunar deity they could have used Hecate from Greek Mythology the Hesiod makes her out pretty dark when you think about it (read the implication and sub-text in the quote): 
Whom she will she greatly aids and advances: she sits by worshipful kings in judgment, and in the assembly whom she will is distinguished among the people. And when men arm themselves for the battle that destroys men, then the goddess is at hand to give victory and grant glory readily to whom she will. Good is she also when men contend at the games, for there too the goddess is with them and profits them: and he who by might and strength gets the victory wins the rich prize easily with joy, and brings glory to his parents. And she is good to stand by horsemen, whom she will: and to those whose business is in the grey discomfortable sea, and who pray to Hecate and the loud-crashing Earth-Shaker, easily the glorious goddess gives great catch, and easily she takes it away as soon as seen, if so she will. She is good in the byre with Hermes to increase the stock.
#13 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@G Bird said:
" It's a comic book, it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect. "
exactly.
#14 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe this is just me, but I've never considered the Khonshu that appears in MK to be a representation of the ancient mythical version. I always just thought it was the violent urges of MK's subconscious speaking to him, which is why he's still kicking ass even thought he's no longer killing for Khonshu in Vengeance of Moon Knight.

#15 Posted by G Bird (1280 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^ Then how do you factor in the times that Marc has died and Khonshu resurrected him back to life? It's not just his subconscious, Khonshu is actually there.

#16 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@G Bird: meaning this is a case of  "Did you do any f**k all research and made a character up". They could have used the real mythological war god Set who protects Ra from Apep during the trip of the solar barge in the underworld and everything would have been fine. Instead they chose a random egyptian god and rapped him in the form he has in the comics. Khonshu in mythology is one of the most peaceful deities of the pantheon.
#17 Posted by warcorpse (433 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @G Bird: meaning this is a case of  "Did you do any f**k all research and made a character up". They could have used the real mythological war god Set who protects Ra from Apep during the trip of the solar barge in the underworld and everything would have been fine. Instead they chose a random egyptian god and rapped him in the form he has in the comics. Khonshu in mythology is one of the most peaceful deities of the pantheon. "
Yes, thank you. that's all I was trying to say. I think Khonshu needs to be protrayed closer to the mythology. And I think marlene needs to be an avatar of a god or goddess.
#18 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach: what are the mythological characteristics of Khonshu cause i honestly thought they made up a random Egyptian sounding name  
#19 Posted by gambit987 (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

i tought Konshu even didn't exist in egeptian mythologie

#20 Posted by ~The Wanderer~ (34406 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe: @gambit987: Here's a wiki page about him.
@Crom-Cruach: Late response, I know, but that's interesting about Hecate.  Didn't know that she was associated with the moon.
#21 Posted by gambit987 (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

thanks at the wanderer

#22 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio
@~The Wanderer~: learn something new every day
#23 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@warcorpse:  unfortunately, they'd need to have this Khonshu be revealed as a false Khonshu as the real Khonshu is so different from the one in Marvel that it's impossible they could be the same person logically.  
@joshmightbe:  He's a fertility, night and moon god who travels the world spreading life and bounty. He has dominion over sleep and dreams to in some lesser aspect.
@~The Wanderer~: Yup she is, she's also a godess of crossroads and magic and one vindictive bi**h...
#24 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@G Bird: True.
#25 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@~The Wanderer~ said:
" @joshmightbe: @gambit987: Here's a wiki page about him.
@Crom-Cruach: Late response, I know, but that's interesting about Hecate.  Didn't know that she was associated with the moon. "
On the wiki page, Khonshu is spelled like "khonsu".
#26 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative: spelling change a lot in mythology thought.
#27 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative: spelling change a lot in mythology thought. "
Plus, Marvel wants to trademark the spelling of the name.
#28 Posted by joshmightbe (25021 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative: lots of mythological gods have not only different spelling but different names like odin is also wotan, and woden
#29 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative: lol, true but they'd never win this in court no matter how hard they try, since the name has been spelled like that in numerous university books far before the character appeared in marvel and it would fall under public domain names therein.
#30 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative: lol, true but they'd never win this in court no matter how hard they try, since the name has been spelled like that in numerous university books far before the character appeared in marvel and it would fall under public domain names therein. "
They're Marvel. They can get whatever they want.
#31 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative: lol, true but they'd never win this in court no matter how hard they try, since the name has been spelled like that in numerous university books far before the character appeared in marvel and it would fall under public domain names therein. "
They're Marvel. They can get whatever they want. "
Uh no, Marvel would never win a court battle against all the world's universities, public domain laws and litterary conventions. Marvel doesn't have that power or that amount of brains and neither foes Disney.
#32 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative: lol, true but they'd never win this in court no matter how hard they try, since the name has been spelled like that in numerous university books far before the character appeared in marvel and it would fall under public domain names therein. "
They're Marvel. They can get whatever they want. "
Uh no, Marvel would never win a court battle against all the world's universities, public domain laws and litterary conventions. Marvel doesn't have that power or that amount of brains and neither foes Disney. "
Well, Disney bought Marvel, so they can use Disney to get what they want.
#33 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative said:
" Well, Disney bought Marvel, so they can use Disney to get what they want. "
Disney does not even come close to having that kind of power or brains. And to think otherwise is ridiculous.
#34 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" Well, Disney bought Marvel, so they can use Disney to get what they want. "
Disney does not even come close to having that kind of power or brains. And to think otherwise is ridiculous. "
I heard somewhere that Disney had more money than Argentina or something.
#35 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" Well, Disney bought Marvel, so they can use Disney to get what they want. "
Disney does not even come close to having that kind of power or brains. And to think otherwise is ridiculous. "
I heard somewhere that Disney had more money than Argentina or something. "
Irrelevant when you consider how such a legal battle would go and how the laws of the international and U.S courts are written.
#36 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" Well, Disney bought Marvel, so they can use Disney to get what they want. "
Disney does not even come close to having that kind of power or brains. And to think otherwise is ridiculous. "
I heard somewhere that Disney had more money than Argentina or something. "
Irrelevant when you consider how such a legal battle would go and how the laws of the international and U.S courts are written. "
Screw that. They could just threaten to have Galactus eat the planet.
#37 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8901 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative said:
" "Screw that. They could just threaten to have Galactus eat the planet. "

#38 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @ReverseNegative said:
" "Screw that. They could just threaten to have Galactus eat the planet. "

"
LOL

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