What makes you worthy to lift Mjolnir?

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Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of speculation has been said about this, I am going to try and figure it out -

First lets see who has held it before and look at common similarities. ( I have excluded a number of people who held it for reasons other than worthiness )

Wonder Women ( Alt verse but would be worthy in 616 also due to reasons Going to be listed )

NameClear Traits
ThorWarrior lifestyle - Willing to Kill - Think of others before self - Honorable - Very powerful - Sense of Nobility - Humility
Captain AmericaWarrior/soilder lifestyle - Willing to Kill - Think of others before self - Honorable - Not that strong - "Super soilder" - Humility ( pre-S/S serum )
Beat Ray BillWarrior lifestyle - Willing to Kill - Think of others before self - Honorable - Very powerful - Possible Nobility -Humility ( Asking Thor for help )
Wonder WomenWarrior lifestyle - Willing to Kill - Think of others before self - Honorable - Very powerful - Nobility - Humility/humbleness

So a few clear traits show,

Being a warrior, Willing to kill, selflessness , Honor and possibly have some kind of status or nobility and Humility

The nobility trait may be said to not be true, but looking at all the people who have lifted it they have some kind of title, even Captain America is not just a solider but a "super" Soldier. He is also willing to kill, as he has done in wars.

A few people who are not worthy

Spider-man - Not willing to kill, Lifestyle, Not noble. Not really honorable.

Superman - Not willing to kill , Not really a warrior lifestyle.

Hulk - He does not have the warrior lifestyle, No honor, No nobility.

These are just some ideas, May or not be true, but they make sense.

( (

#1 Posted by JonSmith (3995 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair to the Hulk, he has some form of honor, and if he wanted some nobility, there's not really a whole lot that could stop him from taking it.

#2 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

To be fair to the Hulk, he has some form of honor, and if he wanted some nobility, there's not really a whole lot that could stop him from taking it.

He does not have the warrior lifestyle and will never have nobility in my view, what possible nobility could he show?

#3 Posted by Hoenhime (137 posts) - - Show Bio

This might be what qualifies for being worthy, good observations.

#4 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hoenhime: Thank you.

#5 Posted by JonSmith (3995 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

To be fair to the Hulk, he has some form of honor, and if he wanted some nobility, there's not really a whole lot that could stop him from taking it.

He does not have the warrior lifestyle and will never have nobility in my view, what possible nobility could he show?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree with all of your points. I'm merely stating that the Hulk HAS shown honor and even some nobility in the past (though I was referring more to the 'royal' nobility, such as is conferred via title rather than characteristic) Specifically, the Green Scar Hulk. He was a King, and truly cared about his people before they went boom. I might even go so far as to say if Hulk was appreciated by Earth's populace as a hero rather than a mindless monster, he might be more like that all the time.

And regardless of which Hulk we're talking about, they've never caused an unintentional casualty. For most heroes, that's relatively easy. For an individual who smashes and rampages through entire cities, destroys military divisions like it was going out of style, and generally unleashes mass mayhem simply by SHOWING UP, that's a lot more impressive. One could determine that as honor if one chose to do so.

As for the Warrior lifestyle, what would you define as a warrior lifestyle? If it's something along the lines of 'a love of constant battle' the Hulk has that in spades.

#6 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@Pyrogram said:

To be fair to the Hulk, he has some form of honor, and if he wanted some nobility, there's not really a whole lot that could stop him from taking it.

He does not have the warrior lifestyle and will never have nobility in my view, what possible nobility could he show?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree with all of your points. I'm merely stating that the Hulk HAS shown honor and even some nobility in the past (though I was referring more to the 'royal' nobility, such as is conferred via title rather than characteristic) Specifically, the Green Scar Hulk. He was a King, and truly cared about his people before they went boom. I might even go so far as to say if Hulk was appreciated by Earth's populace as a hero rather than a mindless monster, he might be more like that all the time.

And regardless of which Hulk we're talking about, they've never caused an unintentional casualty. For most heroes, that's relatively easy. For an individual who smashes and rampages through entire cities, destroys military divisions like it was going out of style, and generally unleashes mass mayhem simply by SHOWING UP, that's a lot more impressive. One could determine that as honor if one chose to do so.

As for the Warrior lifestyle, what would you define as a warrior lifestyle? If it's something along the lines of 'a love of constant battle' the Hulk has that in spades.

Warrior lifestyle, Hulk is not a warrior or a soldier at heart.

Thor is a Viking Warrior , He is battling most of the time , He does not "love it" It is his life. In an alternate universe he had to stop being a warrior and become a father, he went into depression and became an alcoholic.

Captain America is a soldier, He has served in many wars and continues to do so. Wonder women is an Amazonian Warrior for example.

Hulk may love battle, but how many times has he been said to be like "Hulk wants to be left alone" etc..Thor,cap,WW have never said anything like that to a battle ( apart from when Thor did to Beta Ray bill during warrior madness when he was Pissed at Odin )

So, Hulk will not be able to lift the hammer for another reason he has killed way to many innocent people. He is also selfish ( banner anyways... ) Remember in a recent issue he wants to be remembers as a scientist and not a monster, HE wants to be remembered, This could be shown as selfishness.

#7 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4300 posts) - - Show Bio

hey.what about these guys?

Eric Masterson.

Drago? wasn't it?

ok.so how do these guys fit into that equation?

#8 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: I did not include them as they are basically a plot device character. They both I think took up Thor's life more or less, so they are the same as him also.

#9 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Im awesome and good looking

also I have noble blood, and I think Im altruistic and honorable enough. among other things, but yeah Im totally from nobility, you should give me Mjolnir so I could try to lift it

#10 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy: Willing to kill people?

#11 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4300 posts) - - Show Bio

#12 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Thanks :)

#13 Posted by TheCannon (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. You put quite a lot of thought into this. Good work!

#14 Posted by JonSmith (3995 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

Thor is a Viking Warrior , He is battling most of the time , He does not "love it" It is his life. In an alternate universe he had to stop being a warrior and become a father, he went into depression and became an alcoholic.

Captain America is a soldier, He has served in many wars and continues to do so. Wonder women is an Amazonian Warrior for example.

Hulk may love battle, but how many times has he been said to be like "Hulk wants to be left alone" etc..Thor,cap,WW have never said anything like that to a battle ( apart from when Thor did to Beta Ray bill during warrior madness when he was Pissed at Odin )

The Savage Hulk wants to be left alone, yes, but the Green Scar Hulk started, waged, and won a war nearly alone. Moreso, he did it against an entire regime in the span of the few months Civil War was going on. If that's not an example of a warrior lifestyle, I don't know what is. Keep in mind, I'm not saying ALL Hulk's are worthy (not by a long shot), but SOME are, at least within the parameter's you've set down.

So, Hulk will not be able to lift the hammer for another reason he has killed way to many innocent people. He is also selfish ( banner anyways... ) Remember in a recent issue he wants to be remembers as a scientist and not a monster, HE wants to be remembered, This could be shown as selfishness.

As for killing innocent people... What? I specifically said he HASN'T killed innocent people. Even in all his rampages. Even as the Savage Hulk, he's never killed innocent people, or resulted in their deaths. This has been brought up in the comics: Hulk has never caused a casualty in his rampages. And as for selfishness... Banner wants to help the world to make up for the Hulk's destruction. As you said, he wants to be remembered as a scientist. If you intend to say that a person wanting to leave behind a good legacy is selfishness, then we are done here, sir. As for the Hulk himself, he's been attacked, blown up, and generally assaulted every moment of his EXISTENCE. Literally from the word 'GO', the first night of his transformation he was assaulted. He has had EVERYTHING taken away from him in ways that few other heroes can relate to. Every time he's ever had a moment of happiness it's been taken from him. Yet in spite of that, he keeps coming back to help the very human race that calls him a monster and attacks him. If THAT'S selfishness, then I'd hope more people were that selfish.

#15 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: Even with all that. He lacks the warrior/noble/honor side to lifting the hammer.

#16 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

Viking Lifestyle

Willingness to Die and Kill for your people

Not an idealist

Warrior Born and Trained

You've traveled the world in Big Ship

Honor/Nobility

that special 'Magic' touch

#17 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade said:

Viking Lifestyle

Willingness to Die and Kill for your people

Not an idealist

Warrior Born and Trained

You've traveled the world in Big Ship

Honor/Nobility

that special 'Magic' touch

Captain America does not have a viking lifestyle.

Idealist? Captain sorta is.

Traveled the world in a big ship?

Magic touch?

#18 Posted by Asagod (292 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess there are more reasons, but those you said are true.

#19 Posted by Hoenhime (137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Your welcome

#20 Posted by kingsloth (249 posts) - - Show Bio

how about being a badly written character as a prerequisite.

#21 Posted by Raizex (354 posts) - - Show Bio

WHEN YOU'RE AS STRONG AS ME, YOU CAN LIFT ANYTHING CUZZZZZZ

#22 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@Jorgevy: Willing to kill people?

in specific cases yeah I guess

but I think my nobility alone would do the trick, I'm a Count, that's almost as good as King

#23 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man would lift the Hammer regardless of a willingness to kill.

#24 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't think willingness to kill really has any stock in it.

#25 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

When gravity is present, when it's on the ground, the magical enchantment does this to it.

For the worthy, this enchantment turns off.

#26 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Spider-Man would lift the Hammer regardless of a willingness to kill.

He fails many of the other reasons, and he has failed before anyways.

@Decoy Elite said:

Don't think willingness to kill really has any stock in it.

It has a massive reason, look at everybody who has, they are all willing to kill, you cannot argue against that :)

#27 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: That's wrong, you should not be able to hold it in space either, In space you may be able to direct its movement but not get the effects of the hammer, so its just moving a piece of Uru and not the actual hammer.

#28 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: I think it's a coincidence.

#29 Edited by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: I think it's a coincidence.

No, I don't think so :P

#30 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: I think it's a coincidence.

No, I don't think so :P

I'm glad you edited to elaborate a bit more, smart move given my habit of sarcasm.

That said, despite the importance of killing in Norse myth, I don't think it's something that the Marvel Odin would put stock into when judging how worthy someone is. I mean yeah you can list plenty of people who are willing to kill that have used the hammer, but they're all for the most part unlikely to kill. Heck I'm pretty sure there was a time where Thor would outright refuse to kill foes.

Plus you sort of cherry picked examples given you ignored the "plot devise" characters despite them still very much so counting as worthy under how the hammer works. All of your examples other than Thor would count as "plot devise" wielders as well given the plot is what at the end of the day dictates who wields the hammer.

I understand wanting to define what measures worthiness, but if you're going to you'll need to analyze all the characters who've lifted the hammer, not just a few you pick out.

#31 Posted by Lvenger (19105 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: Didn't you also say that Superman could theoretically lift the hammer? According to the OP he lacks the willingness to kill and warrior lifestyle that are prerequisites for being able to lift Mjolnir.

#32 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: Well I was keeping it to Marvel only, but yeah, I think Superman could definitely lift it. If Mjolnir ignored a being of tremendous integrity, pure selflessness, the complete devotion to good, and the readiness to give one's life against impossible odds to save the people, then Mjolnir is a crack-head.

#33 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: I think it's a coincidence.

No, I don't think so :P

I'm glad you edited to elaborate a bit more, smart move given my habit of sarcasm.

That said, despite the importance of killing in Norse myth, I don't think it's something that the Marvel Odin would put stock into when judging how worthy someone is. I mean yeah you can list plenty of people who are willing to kill that have used the hammer, but they're all for the most part unlikely to kill. Heck I'm pretty sure there was a time where Thor would outright refuse to kill foes.

Plus you sort of cherry picked examples given you ignored the "plot devise" characters despite them still very much so counting as worthy under how the hammer works. All of your examples other than Thor would count as "plot devise" wielders as well given the plot is what at the end of the day dictates who wields the hammer.

I understand wanting to define what measures worthiness, but if you're going to you'll need to analyze all the characters who've lifted the hammer, not just a few you pick out.

A simple no sounded rude, so I needed to change it :)

I took some out as they were made to lift the hammer, they were made to replace Thor , so they all have his traits. No point including people who only lifted it due to the plot, its just not accurate enough. So I only included people who have lifted it for other reasons than being a plot character.

#34 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Lvenger: Well I was keeping it to Marvel only, but yeah, I think Superman could definitely lift it. If Mjolnir ignored a being of tremendous integrity, pure selflessness, the complete devotion to good, and the readiness to give one's life against impossible odds to save the people, then Mjolnir is a crack-head.

I doubt it, Superman lacks the other things needed that all the other wielders have. This also proves he is causally not worthy.

#35 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: I didn't take it as rude, so no problem.

Eh, they all lifted it for plot though, except Wonder Woman, which...honestly I don't know why she lifted it in Marvel vs DC, it was kinda out of nowhere.

#36 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: I didn't take it as rude, so no problem.

Eh, they all lifted it for plot though, except Wonder Woman, which...honestly I don't know why she lifted it in Marvel vs DC, it was kinda out of nowhere.

They all lifted it for plot, but some characters were made to replace Thor so they HAD to be able to lift it, so they really don't add anything to this.

#37 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: I didn't take it as rude, so no problem.

Eh, they all lifted it for plot though, except Wonder Woman, which...honestly I don't know why she lifted it in Marvel vs DC, it was kinda out of nowhere.

They all lifted it for plot, but some characters were made to replace Thor so they HAD to be able to lift it, so they really don't add anything to this.

But they were different from him in some ways. For instance I think Eric refused to kill IIRC and he certainly was less of a warrior lifestyle kind of guy from what I saw of him.

#38 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: Odin chose him as he was made to replace Thor, so that is what I am saying, its a plot character and should be an outliner as it serves no purpose in finding what makes you worthy.

#39 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Lvenger: Well I was keeping it to Marvel only, but yeah, I think Superman could definitely lift it. If Mjolnir ignored a being of tremendous integrity, pure selflessness, the complete devotion to good, and the readiness to give one's life against impossible odds to save the people, then Mjolnir is a crack-head.

I doubt it, Superman lacks the other things needed that all the other wielders have. This also proves he is causally not worthy.

Yes, non-canon scans do prove a lot.

#40 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite: Odin chose him as he was made to replace Thor, so that is what I am saying, its a plot character and should be an outliner as it serves no purpose in finding what makes you worthy.

Except Odin is the guy who chooses how the hammer defines worthy. Thus his picks actually matter quite a bit.

#41 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: That crossover is considered somewhat cannon.

#42 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: Eric was still willing to kill though, Thor has chosen not to kill the Hulk or Red hulk but has still killed millions of other people.

#43 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Canon in the respect that it's not totally ignored. Not canon in the respect that it actually happened to 616/Earth 1 characters.

#44 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite: Eric was still willing to kill though, Thor has chosen not to kill the Hulk or Red hulk but has still killed millions of other people.

He was? Didn't know that. I don't think even in his long life Thor has killed millions and back when he was kill happy enough to do so he was actually deemed unworthy as of the depiction in the latest Thor series.

Eric was still noticeably different from Thor in many ways, mostly his personalty.

In fact looking a Thor himself he has changed quite a bit, maybe we should view what hasn't changed at all in the character to analyze just what makes him worthy. Maybe see what actions have caused him to become temporarily unworthy.

Also no one mentioned the most important wielder of Mjolnir, Donald Blake. He certainly doesn't fit into your parameters well.

#45 Edited by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Decoy Elite: Eric was still willing to kill though, Thor has chosen not to kill the Hulk or Red hulk but has still killed millions of other people.

He was? Didn't know that. I don't think even in his long life Thor has killed millions and back when he was kill happy enough to do so he was actually deemed unworthy as of the depiction in the latest Thor series.

Eric was still noticeably different from Thor in many ways, mostly his personalty.

In fact looking a Thor himself he has changed quite a bit, maybe we should view what hasn't changed at all in the character to analyze just what makes him worthy. Maybe see what actions have caused him to become temporarily unworthy.

Also no one mentioned the most important wielder of Mjolnir, Donald Blake. He certainly doesn't fit into your parameters well.

http://www.comicvine.com/thor/29-2268/thor-experts-how-many-enemies-has-thor-killed/92-737472/#31

Donald blake has never held the hammer in its true form.

He was not deemed unworthy also, he was just young ( a few thousand years xD ) and Odin still had the hammer.

#46 Edited by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Is it bad that I was only thinking in terms of humans?

He still picked it up because he was worthy.

I thought it had to do with him being unworthy, as shown in the first issue. Guess I remembered it wrong.

#47 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Pyrogram: Is it bad that I was only thinking in terms of humans.

He still picked it up because he was worthy.

I thought it had to do with him being unworthy, as shown in the first issue. Guess I remembered it wrong.

Lol no :P

What comic are you talking about, so I can properly comment?

#48 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: For the hammer thing? Thor: God of Thunder

But like I said I could be mis-remembering as I don't have the issue in front of me right now.

#49 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: I just skimmed through the whole issue and I cannot find anything to do with the hammer?

#50 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Maybe it was issue 2. Let me check my comics.

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