Every-time there's a Hulk v Superman, or Thor v Superman, etc, etc thread or battle, there seems to be a fairly black and white approach from many fans of DC's more powerful characters such as Superman, GL, etc, who are pretty dismissive of Marvel's characters. Just wondered why this is? I've always been a fan of superman, but also like reading Thor and Hulk titles and I like to think battles between the most popular super powered DC/Marvel characters would be pretty close. Surely fans of Superman/WW and so on who also read Marvel titles involving Thor and Hulk and others would appreciate that they are pretty high powered too?

Yes they are high powered, but they are nothing compared to Superman. No one is anything compared to Superman, he can throw whomever bothers him into the sun, what you gonna do?

The only way to beat Superman is if he holds back, which he always will against someone who is originally "good" like say the Hulk or Iron Man or Thor. But let's be real, no one can beat him, Superman is the ultimate superhero, thus the name.

It's not that Marvel's characters aren't appreciated as being high powered. It's just that in most cases DC's heavy hitter wins.

This is completely incorrect. Maybe not a ton of Marvel characters but plenty of DC characters are just as strong if not stronger than Supes. This debate has been had a million times

@dwightspitz:

That's ridiculous.

Superman is tougher than the Silver Surfer? Thanos? Galactus?

No.

He's being sarcastic.

People don't like to listen to reason when discussing Superman. Everything comes back to "He's overpowered, boring, and can't be beat unless someone pulls out a green rock."

@peppeyhare: It's true.

This is coming from the guy who just admitted that he's read like one DC comic in a different thread.

Marvel's writers are terrible at writing/drawing epic fights between powerful characters.

Also DC's heavy hitters are speed blitzers

Most of marvel's KNOWN mainstream heavy hitters (Thor, Hulk, Silver Surver) are rarely if ever seen at light speed combat speeds.

Well considering Superman's single punch in the new 52 has shook the Earth and both Cyborg and batman felt the shock waves on the Watch tower none of Marvel's heavy hitters have hit that hard.

Well its sort of in human nature when presented with an opposing viewpoint or opinion to be implicitly offended and rather than try and sort through all new available information, perspectives and opinions to find the truth and accuracy of a topic, to instead dig ones heels in even harder and exaggerate ones own views to oppose new information and ideas. Like as an example - if I think Superman can beat Hulk, I mean lets be honest, he probably can right? Then some other guy comes in and says - well your wrong SC Hulk is probably stronger than Superman, Hulk has infinite strength and Superman doesn't. Instead of me actually assessing their claim and my own claim and working out the validity of out statements and what that means for conclusions drawn about both characters and how those things can differ, sometimes it can be easier to say - NO YOUR WRONG YOU HULK FANBOY, HULK DOESN'T HAVE INFINITE STRENGTH THATS PIS AND SUPERMAN CAN PUNCH HULK FIVE BILLION TIMES BEFORE HE EVEN HAS TIME TO REALIZE HE IS BEING PWNED YOU NOOB.

Then you know, its not that often that the guy replying back will try and diffuse the situation. Also even though we would end up in a situation with two guys annoying each other with angry aggressive behavior? Chances are that both people are going to hold as much resentment towards each others respectively argued characters superman and Hulk even though both characters didn't do anything to really earn the ire of either person heh heh. So many DC fans probably lack respect for many Marvel characters because many Marvel fans try and tell them what to think, tell them they are wrong and misinformed and so on. The same will also apply to many Marvel fans as well. There is also groupthink and group bias and confirmation bias and peer pressure and conformity. It still boggles my mind that many fans are convinced and assert in absolute terms that some characters will beat other characters even though writers in comics who have written many of these characters will have a very different opinion. Comic fans need to realize that sometimes words like probably are a lot more valid and honest to use than definitely.

You happen to know what issue this was in?

@peppeyhare: i think i know the arc it h'el on earth

Well the great Stan Lee said, that when he wrote Hero vs Hero fights, he usually had them end up in a draw. They are Heroes after all.

@peppeyhare: It's Superman #17 he did that feat, he hit H'el that hard it shook the planet itself and the watchtower which is in space. The punch wasn't even aimed at the planet it was aimed at H'el yet they felt the shock waves imagine what would have happened if he was aiming at the planet.

That's pretty ridiculous man.

DC comics is nearly as bad as shonen jump, if you create characters that technically would destroy the earth If they punch it or sneeze or worse can destroy the sun... In Marvel those characters tend to be the ultimate threat to the Earth, the Avengers would have teamed up and tried to send superman, wonder women, Goku etc to another universe or dimension to protect the Earth, much like they decided to do with the hulk, Marvel characters tend to be genre specific... But with super powers. Lawyers, scientists, families, schools, space operas, myths and legends, period and war dramas... I enjoy DC but they tend to be more classic hero archetype, except batman, who isn't technically a super hero, more rich detective, it lakes the personal issues of Marvel characters, heck look at Sentry and his emotional issues, even marvels powerhouse is in a constant battle with his dark side... Marvel doesn't do superheros it does people with superpowers and I can't see them ever writing a world destroyer hero, they will leave that with villains. (And the hulk and the void and whoever else has a dark side)

Nah, I don't have respect for any Marvel characters, not just the heavy hitters. :)

Hmmmm, turning to a bash/ hater thread, smh!

@hillbillymorangie: I usually leave the all supreme powerful characters to the omnipotent beings or the mythical like Shuma Gorath.

@rulerofthisuniverse: Thats nice, now go troll some where else.

Me personally I could care less what other fans think of Marvel. As to DC being more OP, so what. I'll take a cosmic god and Mythical extra dimensional beings. DC I have found are too OP for my taste doesn't really add tension and at times too Black and White. But in truth I respect them for what they are regardless.

I agree. Most DC characters are overpowered. That's why they lack respect for Marvel's more moderately powered big hitters. Moderation it's the Marvel way. :)

Probably because a lot of Marvel fans love to state that the reason they dislike DC's heroes is because they are too overpowered. So if your heroes are supposedly not as powerful as DC's heroes, it should be no surprise that people will automatically state that guys like Superman would win the battle because to say that Hulk or Thor would beat Superman would mean that they too must be "overpowered" which flies in the face of the biggest excuse given for why people don't like Superman and other DC heroes. So maybe DC fans are just sticking it to Marvel fans for constantly accusing their heroes of being overpowered by stating that Marvel heroes cannot beat DC heroes without admitting that either DC's heroes are not overpowered or that Marvel's heroes are also overpowered.

@tigerkaya: I was joking around, not trolling. Of course I have respect for Marvel characters. There's a reason why I put a smiley face after it.

@juliedc: But thats the thing Superman can beat them both. With all his feats he can easily overpower them. Sure Hulk and Thor would give him a good fight but ultimately Superman will win. Even Marvel seems to be admitting it by having Hyperion hold two earths together and one hit KO on Terminus.

@tigerkaya: Oh no doubt about it, Superman would win. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of people that state that Superman is overpowered but then get upset when ever there is a Thor vs. Superman or Hulk vs. Superman battle and people immediately state that Superman would beat Thor and Hulk.

@juliedc: Guess some people just can't accept the fact their favorite heroes can't win every battle.

Why can't we all just dig a hole?

@tigerkaya: I agree but those charecters should battle away from the Earth... It's interesting you say that, my favourite superman comics are in space or the negative zone or Kandor, as a defender of the Earth he is overpowered. Maybe the issue isn't DC vs Marvel but that heros are not mixed like for like? So only pit Superman against Galactus for example. The issue with Superman is that he must have some mega self control all of the time, in reality he wouldn't be able to get anything done, he would sit in a flat scared to move for fear of accidentally squashing someone, after all we are not even like ants to superman.

I'd also look at the hero villain aspect of the two franchises,

DC: ultra powered heros vs intelligent often unpowered villains

Marvel: lots of minor powered charecters often intelligent often working as heros in their spare time, vs ultra powered villains all of whome seem richer then a nation with armies of cyborgs, giant robots and super soldiers with lasers...

A lot of marvel heros would fit as DC villains, maybe that's why DC won't necessarily like marvel. But I would add this ignores DCs fab Vertigo comics, this redressed the imbalance, full of screwed up heros that often mislead me into assuming they are marvel products, v for vendetta, shade, watchmen, fables, swamp thing, invisibles... I'm sure there are loads I'm missing, but like I said I don't realise how many are DC.

Maybe a new thread should be started asking if DC fans like Vertigo comics, I'd imagine, Marvel fans would prefer vertigo comics to DC fans? What with the charecters apparent weakness' both in powers and psychological

Omg Constantine is DC also, I trout Hellblazer was Marvel... Must have imagined him in a ghost rider crossover (maybe I read it on here lol), anyway add the hellblazer comic to my list.

A huge piece is versatility. A lot of Marvel character's are good at 1 thing in particular. Regardless of what anyone says, compared to speedsters, Thor and Hulk are slow. Almost all top level DC heroes have super speed. A lot of them have enhanced intellects too. Mot of the have Super Strength as one of their powers. Almost all of them can do more than punch.

And then theres the fact even at the things the Marvel heavy hitters are good at, say punching/ super strength, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, etc are better/stronger. And then there are characters like Wally West Flash, who are so irreparably broken, that any fight at all involving him, not ending in the same panel, is LITERALLY PIS.

DC writes their characters stronger. Fans have noticed it since the 70s, but even Marvel writers (Thor's writer for example) during the Marvel vs DC event were saying as much.

Sort of related, Marvel has actual CANON defined power levels. Sure, they arent concrete, but seeing something like 100 class strength seems painfully limiting. What would even "casual fridays Superman" be on that scale? Class 6 sextillion? And dont bother explaining the class 100 thing, I understand it is the top of the chart but not the actual characters limits, I just think it is stupid to quantify at all.

The other thing, and maybe this is paranoia, but it seems Marvel is more prone to popularity contests. Every time Silver Surfer fights anyone Thor or below, the fight should end in a page or two with SS outright humiliating him, but that never happens, cause nobody likes SS. Every time Thor fights someone Hulk or below, Thor should pummel him, but Hulk is more popular than Thor. To put it simply, Spidey shouldnt beat Firelord. Batman is the only DC character who consistently gets that treatment, and since he is the only one who wins battles he shouldnt consistently, it begins to look like maybe his victories are credible. But anyway, when things like that happen, it hurts the overall perception of power for the character. That's why, even though overall powerset-wise, I consider Silver Surfer, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, and MAYBE Sentry to be the very most powerful "Earth Based Heroes", I dont think any of them would/should actually beat say Superman in a Comic Book. And everyone does a double take and says, "What?" It's Superman's win-loss record. Every single person/alien/god/demon he fights is "better, stronger, faster, smarter, more powerful" than him in some way, but he finds a way to win. He has to, once Superman falls, its all over. Ultimately, he has more heart, more hope, and the "best story." Its the simple romantic beauty of Morrison's Superman Beyond if you actually understood it. He was chosen, to save the whole multiverse, because he has the greatest story.

> Some Marvel and DC writers think Thor can beat Superman, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some Marvel and DC writers think Superman can beat Thor, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some Marvel and DC writers think Hulk can beat Superman, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some Marvel and DC writers think Thor can beat Silver Surfer, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some Marvel and DC writers think Superman can beat Silver Surfer, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some Marvel and DC writers think XYZ can beat ZYX, but realize its fiction so other writers might disagree <

> Some comic fans insist XYZ will and should beat ZYX because Feats and because because <

I like you beemo!!!

This is a well thought out and reasoned response, thanks! The only thing I take issue with is your comment that Thor is slow? I thought he could reach lightspeed in space, even if he is limited to something like mach 2 or 3 within the earth's atmosphere. That's pretty fast. Also, the impression I've got is the likes of Superman are weaker than in the 60s and 70s and the Marvel characters have gotten stronger, i.e. Hulk? You're right about SS too. That guy is so freakin' powerful he could defeat any member of the JLA if the story was written properly but he just ain't that popular!

Thor has never shown lightspeed combat. He can follow his hammer through open space at lightspeed, even teleport, but in a fight, he is well below lightspeed. He gets made fun of by the likes of Captain America and punkd by the likes of Spidey and Wolverine. He is a very brick-like character.

And sure, DC is a lot weaker than it was in the 70s, no doubt. But Marvel still hasnt reached the level of even modern age DC characters, who have gotten stronger since the early 90s (post-COIE era), when Marvel was at its closest to DC and Thor's own writer still thought he'd lose to Superman (look up Byrne Era Supes, who is easily the weakest version since the golden age).

It's a lot like Uma Thurman says in Pulp Fiction: "there are only two kinds of people in the world, Beatles people and Elvis people. Now Beatles people can like Elvis and Elvis people can like the Beatles, but nobody likes them both equally. Somewhere you have to make a choice. And that choice, tells you who you are." It's the same for Marvel and DC.

Because DC's characters were far more powerful for several decades while Marvel's were more realistic.

@peppeyhare: ever heard of black hole weapons there worser then those green rocks

Put Supes against Silver Surfer and see what happens

@spideysense44: then put wally west flash up against him then see what happens

@lifeofvibe:

I c u deleted yur first comment

but man all I am saying is that it would not be easy to beat surfer..he has the advantage of attacking from a distance you cnt just say flash stomps your ignoring all of surfers capabilities too

@spideysense44: heh heh I got my facts wrong...

@lifeofvibe:

lol but yea either way silver surfer,supes, and flash all are cool whoever wins wins

I'm liking the new. Stan Lee superhero, I'm waiting for a stan / Hulk lee vs superman thread to comment on ;) I hope DC fans try the lego marvel game, I really enjoyed the batman games and the gameplay for this one looks better. Hopefully it will build up some respect ;)

http://gamerant.com/lego-marvel-super-heroes-trailer-stan-lee/ don't read or watch the videos if you like surprises in game

Thor can chill in the sun just fine.

Thor punches were destroying worlds all around him and Gorr when they fought in Thor God of Thunder 9.

@omega_man_: Beta Ray bill destroyed a planet with his punch, Thor in his arm wrestling match with Hercules took a planet out of orbit.