Who's the smartest marvel character ?

#1 Posted by RealityWarper (65 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

All is in the title.

#2 Posted by PowerHerc (52469 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Mr. Fantastic - non-abstract
One Above All - abstract

#3 Posted by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Valeria Richards is smarter than her father.

#4 Posted by Fresh0133 (496 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

^^ This, she's crazy smart, she just keeps it a pretty good seceret, even from her dad.

#5 Posted by Reactor (1643 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

You know, with all the geniuses on Earth (comicverse) and all the crazy-advanced tech they have, it really is amazing that the world isn't more advanced. They could get rid of crime, sickness, wars, even establish a absolute world-monarchy (meh, I would, at least).

But anyways, I'd say it's impossible to say (unless an official source says so) who is the smartest in the Marvel Universe. Reed, Tony, Hank and Bruce are among my top choices. Tony is more of a technologist, mathematics, and engineering. Bruce is more of a biologist, chemist, and physicist. Hank is really into the quantum physics, artificial intelligence and obviously pym particles. And then we have Reed, who is seemingly an amalgamation of the others (he's smart in everything).

So, I guess I'd say Reed is the smartest, excluding his daughter.

#6 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@RealityWarper said:

" All is in the title. "

Who is the smartest real person and why?

"Smart" is a pretty general term and we need some criteria to work with...

#7 Posted by Reactor (1643 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

" @RealityWarper said:
" All is in the title. "
Who is the smartest real person and why? "Smart" is a pretty general term and we need some criteria to work with... "

Personally, I though it was pretty evident that he meant academically speaking. When people say "smart", 9 time out of 10, that's generally what they're referring to. They usually specify if they mean smart as to cunning, manipulative, etc.

#8 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Reactor said:

" @Mainline said:
" @RealityWarper said:
" All is in the title. "
Who is the smartest real person and why? "Smart" is a pretty general term and we need some criteria to work with... "
Personally, I though it was pretty evident that he meant academically speaking. When people say "smart", 9 time out of 10, that's generally what they're referring to. They usually specify if they mean smart as to cunning, manipulative, etc. "

I don't think that's obvious and not necessarily what I would consider smart. Academics is as much about discipline, rote memorization, and scope of knowledge as it is about intelligence. A person could be extremely successful academic with an eidetic memory and performance enhancing drugs without having the traits associated with intelligence, innovation, reasoning, etc. Book "smarts" are not street "smarts', etc. Experience, factual knowledge, short-term memory, abstract reasoning, visual-spatial abilities, common sense, social aptitude, cultural adaptation, interpersonal skills, creativity and imagination, etc. can all be non-mutually exclusive tests for intelligence or "smarts". Given such a multitude of relevant factors it's a little difficult to proclaim anyone the "smartest" in a linear sense, which is why I asked for express criteria.

If all you use is the ability to process information, the Flash family may be well up on the scale, if you add memory to the test Bart suddenly soars ahead. If you demand experience, application, or technology be an aspect you exclude youths like Valeria or anyone who's technological sophistication does not exceed a certain level- thus Leonardo DaVinci would not be as "smart" as Rhino... and frankly, Rhino would probably be able to do better academically than DaVinci on the same objective test unless you allow them both the same opportunity to learn in which case the test is not objective academic performance but academic ability / potential.

So it's far from a straight forward "evident" question.

#9 Posted by Reactor (1643 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

" @Reactor said:
" @Mainline said:
" @RealityWarper said:
" All is in the title. "
Who is the smartest real person and why? "Smart" is a pretty general term and we need some criteria to work with... "
Personally, I though it was pretty evident that he meant academically speaking. When people say "smart", 9 time out of 10, that's generally what they're referring to. They usually specify if they mean smart as to cunning, manipulative, etc. "
I don't think that's obvious and not necessarily what I would consider smart. Academics is as much about discipline, rote memorization, and scope of knowledge as it is about intelligence. A person could be extremely successful academic with an eidetic memory and performance enhancing drugs without having the traits associated with intelligence, innovation, reasoning, etc. Book "smarts" are not street "smarts', etc. Experience, factual knowledge, short-term memory, abstract reasoning, visual-spatial abilities, common sense, social aptitude, cultural adaptation, interpersonal skills, creativity and imagination, etc. can all be non-mutually exclusive tests for intelligence or "smarts". Given such a multitude of relevant factors it's a little difficult to proclaim anyone the "smartest" in a linear sense, which is why I asked for express criteria.

If all you use is the ability to process information, the Flash family may be well up on the scale, if you add memory to the test Bart suddenly soars ahead. If you demand experience, application, or technology be an aspect you exclude youths like Valeria or anyone who's technological sophistication does not exceed a certain level- thus Leonardo DaVinci would not be as "smart" as Rhino... and frankly, Rhino would probably be able to do better academically than DaVinci on the same objective test unless you allow them both the same opportunity to learn in which case the test is not objective academic performance but academic ability / potential. So it's far from a straight forward "evident" question. "

Uh, wow... okay? In that case, just give your opinions on different "types" of intellect, and the top contenders in said fields of your choosing. When it's ambiguous, just go with what you want.

#10 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Reactor: I'm making a point... that as silly as it is to claim any human on this earth or in history is the "smartest" without criteria yet somehow when it comes to comics it we can begin ranking them such that we can claim someone is the "7th Smartest Person In The World" without stating how that ranking came to be.

That said, "smartest" in the above sense tends to suggest just general "innovative problem solving"... (so no reliance on time travel, reality warping, magic, omniscience, etc. in order to retrieve or achieve the answer) However, that's still incredibly vague. Imagine applying that in the real world... do you go to Bill Gates because he has resources or someone allegedly smarter but who lives under a park bench? How much does fame and notoriety play into supposed "smarts"?

#11 Posted by drkhwk2001 (4433 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Banner or Doom.

#12 Posted by N7_Normandy (2430 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

What about Amadeus ?

#13 Posted by RealityWarper (65 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@mainline : Yeah I agree in your point of view maybe I see intelligence as general "innovative problem solving" or a "creative power". Reed Richards is able to see things that Wolverine can't.

#14 Posted by weaponxxx (427 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline:
You are absolutely correct. The disambiguation of what it means to be intelligent and distinction between different aspects of intelligence is a huge roadblock for the ranking system to overcome. Memorization, Analysis, Abstract Reasoning, Innovation, Practicality, and Determination are all extremely important to consider. As are other aspects including Wisdom, Shrewdness, Higher Cognitive Function, etc... It is incredibly difficult to compare two human beings who excel in different areas. We even have to consider other alternatives such as the Vision or Ultron for their raw processing power, or Kang for his knowledge of the future(s), or even Deadpool for his breaking down the fourth wall (had to fit it in there). But when a single person excels in all aspects of intelligence simultaneously and succeeds in bypassing the ambiguity of a complex and many layered question such as "who is the smartest there is?" then that ambiguity only serves to highlight and galvanize his or her supremacy over all others....

So in summation....Doom curbstomp.

#15 Edited by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Dr. Doom

Reed is smart, but only as science goes. Dr. Doom is smarter in all other meanings of the word.

#16 Posted by firewrkninja (351 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

" @Reactor said:
" @Mainline said:
" @RealityWarper said:
" All is in the title. "
Who is the smartest real person and why? "Smart" is a pretty general term and we need some criteria to work with... "
Personally, I though it was pretty evident that he meant academically speaking. When people say "smart", 9 time out of 10, that's generally what they're referring to. They usually specify if they mean smart as to cunning, manipulative, etc. "
I don't think that's obvious and not necessarily what I would consider smart. Academics is as much about discipline, rote memorization, and scope of knowledge as it is about intelligence. A person could be extremely successful academic with an eidetic memory and performance enhancing drugs without having the traits associated with intelligence, innovation, reasoning, etc. Book "smarts" are not street "smarts', etc. Experience, factual knowledge, short-term memory, abstract reasoning, visual-spatial abilities, common sense, social aptitude, cultural adaptation, interpersonal skills, creativity and imagination, etc. can all be non-mutually exclusive tests for intelligence or "smarts". Given such a multitude of relevant factors it's a little difficult to proclaim anyone the "smartest" in a linear sense, which is why I asked for express criteria.

If all you use is the ability to process information, the Flash family may be well up on the scale, if you add memory to the test Bart suddenly soars ahead. If you demand experience, application, or technology be an aspect you exclude youths like Valeria or anyone who's technological sophistication does not exceed a certain level- thus Leonardo DaVinci would not be as "smart" as Rhino... and frankly, Rhino would probably be able to do better academically than DaVinci on the same objective test unless you allow them both the same opportunity to learn in which case the test is not objective academic performance but academic ability / potential. So it's far from a straight forward "evident" question. "

I think you are right but Flash would not be up on that scale because the question is who is the smartest marvel character

#17 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@firewrkninja said:

"I think you are right but Flash would not be up on that scale because the question is who is the smartest marvel character "

You're confusing scale with rank. A scale is means of measurement... like a ruler where Flash represented a notch for the purposes of the illustration. "Smartest" is a rank as to who amongst a select set is highest on that scale.

#18 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15259 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Earth bound Reed or Doom all around Thanos

#19 Posted by Theodore (3445 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Reed Richards

#20 Posted by N7_Normandy (2430 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@N7_Normandy said:

" What about Amadeus ? "

#21 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@weaponxxx said:

" @Mainline: Kang for his knowledge of the future(s), or even Deadpool for his breaking down the fourth wall (had to fit it in there). But when a single person excels in all aspects of intelligence simultaneously and succeeds in bypassing the ambiguity of a complex and many layered question such as "who is the smartest there is?" then that ambiguity only serves to highlight and galvanize his or her supremacy over all others.... So in summation....Doom curbstomp. "

The OP refined his criteria above by saying "innovative problem solver" or "creative power" citing my exclusions of extra-temporal knowledge, traditional magic, and reality warping as relevant criteria. Therefore Kang's future knowledge is excluded (for the OP's purposes a fourth grader from the future is not automatically "smarter" than a fourth grader from the present simply due to access to more advanced knowledge) as would be Deadpool (secret knowledge bestowed by writer fiat would not count as a character innovation or creativity- or, another way of putting it, having "security clearance" doesn't make you "smarter" for the purposes of the OP... being allowed to see more of the chessboard is not "smarts").

I'm skeptical about Doom. He already "cheats" by using time travel, traditional (rather than innovative) magic, and reality warpers (brainwashing and betrothing Scarlet Witch) which could be construed as recognizing his power, knowledge, and victory deficit and shoring it up... but "solving" interim problems while failing to achieve the ultimate one (the whole reason he feels the need for all these upgrades and contingencies) hurts his rank in my opinion. The emphasis on innovation and creation is to say "Strip these men of their powers and resources and perhaps even memories... who achieves [BLANK] first?" That's why cosmic omniscient beings cannot be ranked (we've never seen their innovative ability outside of their total knowledge). Applied to Doom- bring him back to basics without all his acquired add-ons- and Reed beat him, the very essence of their rivalry.

#22 Posted by rogue_mar1e (19791 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Doctor Doom .

#23 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I'm willing to make a leap here and say that honestly, Peter Parker can probably be in the top tier. He's made it his business to figure out how to outsmart a lot of different people. He just doesn't get as much credit as he should and I for one believe that's because he isn't as flashy as Reed, or Tony or even Hank. Provide him with the same tools as those three and I say he can do it. The man made web-shooters from practically nothing and outsmarted Reed Richards in one of their crossovers.

#24 Edited by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Eternal Chaos:
While he is quite clever, he's invented all of two things in fifteen years. I wouldn't give him an IQ much higher than the 160s.

#25 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@PumpkinBomb: Give him the proper resources and I see that change.

#26 Posted by chaos-soul (1434 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

the living tribunal lol jk but i want to say doom or thanos
would eternity count?

#27 Posted by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Eternal Chaos:
I think being incredibly smart would only hurt the character. He'd lose... well, credibility.

#28 Posted by firewrkninja (351 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

" @firewrkninja said:
"I think you are right but Flash would not be up on that scale because the question is who is the smartest marvel character "
You're confusing scale with rank. A scale is means of measurement... like a ruler where Flash represented a notch for the purposes of the illustration. "Smartest" is a rank as to who amongst a select set is highest on that scale. "

I was just using the same word as him/her so that there wouldn't be any misunderstandings
@Mainline said

If all you use is the ability to process information, the Flash family may be well up on the scale, if you add memory to the test Bart suddenly soars ahead.

#29 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@firewrkninja: That person was me. You were trying to correct me by saying Flash would not be on that scale. I was trying to correct you by saying I used the word scale specifically because a scale is a measure while a rank applies to a set.

For example... "Who is the best basketball player in this room?" is a rank (smartest in Marvel)... but you can say, "Tom is the only one who beat Dick and Dick has beaten everyone else." even if Dick is not in the room (Flash not in Marvel)... here, Dick is used as a measure or scale, he is not part of the set of people in the room. If you came along and said, "I think you're right but Dick is not in this room." Most would realize the critique didn't make sense.

#30 Posted by EisforExtinction (1908 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Even though it's probably Richards I gotta hype my boy Banner.

#31 Posted by firewrkninja (351 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

" @firewrkninja: That person was me. You were trying to correct me by saying Flash would not be on that scale. I was trying to correct you by saying I used the word scale specifically because a scale is a measure while a rank applies to a set.

For example... "Who is the best basketball player in this room?" is a rank (smartest in Marvel)... but you can say, "Tom is the only one who beat Dick and Dick has beaten everyone else." even if Dick is not in the room (Flash not in Marvel)... here, Dick is used as a measure or scale, he is not part of the set of people in the room. If you came along and said, "I think you're right but Dick is not in this room." Most would realize the critique didn't make sense. "

I have been thoroughly owned. I can't think of a comeback except for the fact that in your example you said Tom (???) beat Dick (Flash). Whereas in your earlier statement you said the Flash (Dick) family would be high up on the scale. You never said someone was better than flash you just said Flash was good. that would be like asking "Who is the best baseball player in the neighborhood?" and someone saying "Timmy Seagorcal is pretty good." even though Timmy Seagorcal lives in a different hemisphere.

I think that made sense
PS: sorry, didn't realize it was you, wasn't really paying attention to that.

#32 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@firewrkninja: No worries, but I disagree with your illustration. If you read the original post's context, the point was saying "How do you measure smarts?" Thus it makes sense to cite various examples of those who excel in various measures to highlight the differences between measures. It's like saying, "Who's the greatest basketball player on the Celtics?" and I said, "What makes a player the best? Being a team player like Kidd? Being dominant at the post like Shaq? Being versatile like Kobe?" Then saying "Those players aren't on the Celtics!" Flash was raised as an example of information processing as a measure of smarts, which was to help clarify whether or not that was applicable criteria... whether any of the Celtics are or are not better isn't really relevant.

#33 Posted by Gambit1024 (9889 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I'm inclined to say Dr. Doom, but this can change with the direction they're taking Valeria in. Anyone who just walks into Dooms palace and talks to him like she did has got to be pretty damn intelligent.

#34 Posted by darkcloakx (788 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

black panther.

#35 Posted by firewrkninja (351 posts) - 2 years, 6 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline: i disagree with your illustration of you disagreeing with my illustration of your first illustration.

In my last comment where i start with "i have been thoroughly owned", I think i was talking about how you had added an element into your first example (Tom from the Tom and Dick thing) not into the first thing you said (about flash). (although i did make it quite unclear) i just meant that your first example way back in the day (not the first thing you said but your first example) had:
@firewrkninja said:

...Tom (???)...

and you didn't really explain who he was supposed to represent.

in a nut shell, i wasn't saying your "flash" post made no sense i was basically trying (trying!) to say that Tom wasnt anything in that example.

I hope that wasn't too hard to understand i kinda wrote it really quick because im starving and want to go eat something.

#36 Posted by Primebonnick (470 posts) - 1 year, 11 months ago - Show Bio

Thanos is the smartest .
But for earth in no particular order
Beast
reed richards
black panther
Bruce Banner
High Evolutionary
Cho
hank pym
tony stark
the leader
Dr Doom

#37 Posted by misternegative (31 posts) - 1 year, 11 months ago - Show Bio

I think the term smart is far too broad a term, each super-scientist (Doom, Pym, Richards etc.) has their own specialist field though one of the most intelligent members of the MU in my mind is Pym. Then again Maybe i'm biased :)

#38 Posted by ripcurl (414 posts) - 1 year, 4 months ago - Show Bio

Thanos.

#39 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - 1 year, 3 months ago - Show Bio

@Reactor said:

You know, with all the geniuses on Earth (comicverse) and all the crazy-advanced tech they have, it really is amazing that the world isn't more advanced. They could get rid of crime, sickness, wars, even establish a absolute world-monarchy (meh, I would, at least). But anyways, I'd say it's impossible to say (unless an official source says so) who is the smartest in the Marvel Universe. Reed, Tony, Hank and Bruce are among my top choices. Tony is more of a technologist, mathematics, and engineering. Bruce is more of a biologist, chemist, and physicist. Hank is really into the quantum physics, artificial intelligence and obviously pym particles. And then we have Reed, who is seemingly an amalgamation of the others (he's smart in everything). So, I guess I'd say Reed is the smartest, excluding his daughter.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless

#40 Posted by Enosisik (1153 posts) - 1 year, 3 months ago - Show Bio

Thanos has been shown to outsmart Dr.Doom more than once. Reed and Doom are about even. Pym , Banner,Leader Egghead and Cho and Stark are all about even with Beast right under them.

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Publisher of iconic characters and teams such as Spider-Man, the Avengers, the X-Men, Iron Man, the Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Daredevil, and the Fantastic Four. One of the "big two" comic publishers along with DC Comics.

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