@Thor's hammmer: True enough, you are obviously a big Thor fan and know your Thor history, but as a comic book reader you understand that the consistency of each characters story line especially one as old as Thor( The marvel Character not the actual Norse Myth) can be inconsistent at times. For example the Wolverine character when he first started was get his neck slit and he would not be fast enough to heal before he bled out. Thor use to fly by throwing his hammer and hanging to the inertia, that has certainly changed.  My only experience with the Sentry was reading the Dark Avengers and they raised the Sentry passed superman levels. The last Marvel-DC confrontation between those two, superman dominated over Thor. 

                   

               

                    @Lance Uppercut said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

@sgtnickrage said:

                    In a character to character comparison Sentry is far more powerful than Thor, as proven in the siege books. He practically took on Asgard by himself, ripping Areas in half. Now I understand that Thor is Marvels "big gun", and if their was a story line where it was Thor and Sentry, Thor would figure out a way to defeat this second rate character, but a power to power comparison, and each characters past achievement taken into account, you have to give it to Sentry. After reading the siege story I would think a better fight would be Galactus and Sentry.  (by the way I hate Sentry)

                   

               

@sgtnickrage said:

                    @SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.

                   

               

Thor has easily defeated Ares at 3X power while Thor was Holding Back faster than the sentry could defeat regular Ares. Thor one shotted Namor in the pouring Rain without the use of his hammer. Even after sentry pounded Namor into the Ground Namor was back up within one panel.Sentry almost burned up entering into earths sun whereas Thor has stood in the centre of the Sun without it even drying out his eyes. Herules who is Equal to Thor in strength was wooping the Sentry and Hercules doesn't have any of Thor's other powers.  Odin admittted that if Thor ever reached his full potential he would be more powerful than even Odin.  Thor has beaten far better than the Sentry even people who are Skyfather level. Thor on panel has defeated Galactus. Spider-man claims Sentry stalemated Galactus. Sentry Claims to have the power of a thousand or million exploding suns. Thor has actuallly demonstrated the power of 1000 suns and has Dealt with Galaxy destroying level energy before.Thor held back when fighting armies of regular asgardian warrors because he didn't want to murder his people and has already proven himself strong enough to destroy asgard itself.   Nothing the Sentry has done overshadows what Thor has done.

                   

               

1. Ares isn't that strong to begin with. Defeating him at 3x power would be like defeating Thing or Colossus. Sentry has easily restrained Ares, and if he wanted to kill him, he would. 2. Which is ridiculous, considering Namor has taken blows from people like Thor and Hercules and Blue Marvel for ages, but Thor can suddenly one-shot him? No. 3. Sentry was once again holding back against Hercules. This is the same story where Ares was going blow for blow with Typhon, and Hercules was struggling to hold Sentry back until Herc kneed him in the groin. Athena was blindsided by the bloody titan girl. Hell, they had Daken fighting Pluto of all people. 4. Galactus was vastly weakened when Thor drove him away from earth (with his most powerful attack, mind you.) Sentry has weakened dramatically since his encounter with Galactus, and we have no idea what level Galactus was even at.  5. Sentry got the exploding suns thing from a comic book. It's not an actual indicator of his power level. It's just something he liked, and took.  6. Yeah, so could Sentry. The average Asgardian? Not that strong. HAMMER soldiers were gunning them down. 

                   

               

 
1. What you say applies with relativity to any and all characters. Its a broad based argument. Thor can't restrain or kill Ares? He has killed objectively proven stronger and restrained objectively proven stronger. Easily is a relative term, with subjective interpretation. Actually demonstrating the relativity of ease is what helps ideally, otherwise the argument you present is guilty of the same flaws your argument addresses.   2. Its only ridiculous if someone holds the absurd notion that a person only has one power setting for their punch. Its like saying that because a boxer can regularly take punches from other boxers, its impossible, that some couldn't be knocked out with one, good, clean, unrestrained punch. Its easy and a great point to attack the creative decision behind this action, and instance/example, and to attack the consistency, but of course as far as the consistency, one would have to find other examples, where Thor had the same motivation and failed to not Namor out with one blow, AND, I mean, when the guy who created Blue Marvel, himself says that Thor is stronger than Blue Marvel, I am not sure raising the idea that because Namor has taken blows from him it makes it inconsistent unless one is going by Namor's word of mouth, which is flawed. Then to address attacking the creative decision, well if one says no here, what can say no to anything. Hell, now Namor is stronger than Sentry and Thor combined because their interactions with each other? No.   3. I agree.   4. A retcon introduced much later, and ambiguous so, so define vastly weakened? We know he had recently fed, that doesn't actually mean he still wasn't vastly weakened, but you know? If one is trying to compare the two characters, and as you say we have no idea what level Galactus was at, or even Sentry was at either, or whether Sentry stalemated him with help, or like how Reed did, or maybe even the possibility he was powered up unnaturally.   5. I agree.   6. Not sure what specific point you refer to lol, but it appears the person you were addressing, is aware that Sentry could and has did that, but was referring to how Thor could and has as well, since if that is the reason the person he addressed, holds his view, then pointing it out makes sense, its not an admission that Sentry could not. Especially if it seems he is purposefully comparing two things that he acknowledges has happened. 

                   

               

@SC:   1. Agreed  2. As I recall, it was Namor's narration. If Namor was making an observation how hard he's been hit by both characters, then wouldn't he have the necessary information to make that kind of a judgement call? It doesn't seem like he'd need some kind of scientific set up with pressure pads to measure the exact force in order to tell readers via his personal thoughts of who has been able to hit him the hardest. He wasn't trying to make himself look better, it was just an admittance on his part that Adam can indeed swing like a mofo.   4. Nate was quite clear the he was there in the Dark X-men run. Once again, he's not a character who's personality is to lie through his teeth. If he were untrustworthy or known for a blatant misrepresentation of events. But that's two characters that can confirm that the Sentry has faced Galactus. But once again, the exact context or factors of the fight are rather unknown until such a time as some other writer decides to elaborate on it. Thor's skirmish with Galactus however is far easier to draw a conclusion from. 

@Thor's hammmer:  lol, no problem. Lance is a smart guy, its nice to talk comics with him. (plus I found your post pretty cool in the sense you offered reasoning behind your opinions, which is great, more people should have fun and explain the though process behind the conclusions they draw) 

@SC: 2. Why would he conclude that the trio is in the same ballpark as each other? Obviously, that would be a blatant lie on his part. Especially since we as fans know that it's not the truth based on conclusive showings from all the characters involved. If that's the case, would the Watcher be lying when he told Adam he could have split the moon in half with a punch? Was Red Hulk being untruthful when he said that Thor nearly defeated him before Hulk intervened? Grievoux had the same information Namor did. Perhaps more. So why would he write something for Namor and then retract it completely, discrediting the point of the statement entirely.   4. Not sure what I'm being asked to define. He cited specific examples of his exploits with the Sentry. Norman even called in to question his truthfulness and Nate dismissed it. Once again, Nate isn't a habitual liar, nor did he have a need to considering his wealth of other options. His honesty hasn't altered from writer to writer. Why would he start now? 

@SC: I'll have to get to most of the Namor stuff later as I'm pressed for time (trying to find a showing of First Class). I can however, handle Nate.  4. I don't really have to prove he'll always tell the truth though. Continuity, as well as consistency throughout character history has defined her personality well enough. Even in the context with Sentry, there was no reason for deception because Nate was all about revealing the truth. The entire arc involved him trying to reveal what Norman Osborn really was and that he was still being influenced by the Goblin. Sentry believed him, and Nate was one of the few people who still remembered that the Sentry even existed. Everyone has the potential to lie, but saying he lied in this circumstance based on no need to do so would seem contradictory to the entire character. While it's not in his character to be overtly trusting, it's also not in his character to feel threatened by honesty. He may withhold some things, but he doesn't lie about them. 

@SC: How do I have no argument? The characters entire existence and personality traits throughout back and substantiate my argument. If there's a reason for him to be untruthful to Sentry, you haven't really provided it. It's hard not to take his word when you can't really cite examples as to why he'd want to fool Robert through trickery. And I never said there was room for him to not always be truthful. Withholding information and intentionally lying are two different scenarios entirely. As it stands, my argument does indeed have more ground. It's not ignorance, it's taking what's on the page and utilizing the facts presented. I can provide scans if you'd like, but it's unlikely to help. I can't envision a scenario where he'd lie because there would be no facts of basis to support such a scenario. It's just completely unlikely. 

@SC: I mean, if it turns out that I've made the mistake of assuming you've read comics involving Nate enough to know his general personality, then please, forgive me. You seem to contradict yourself when asking for subjective proof, but subjective proof in the only form that can be provided (scans of events) are apparently meaningless because they're open to different contextual interpretations... or something like that. Sorry, I really just skimmed this. But in short, you're calling my ability to interpret the material correctly in to question in a rather verbose manner. Once again, you can come up with as many scenarios as you'd like to envision a possibility in which he may lie, but it doesn't really matter, because in the reality of comics, in that situation, there's no reason for him to do so. It's not really a form of ignorance, it just seems like a way to continue an argument on your part. If you want to call in to question Nate's trustworthiness as a grounds for why the entire scenario should be dismissed rather then taking it for what it is, then it isn't my responsibility to make that argument. I presented evidence as to Nate being there, you called in in to question, but more on the grounds of semantics and context without providing any real grounds as to why it should be thrown out. Doesn't make much sense to go on if we're just going to make up one equally unlikely scenario as the next when it's far more plausible that the character is in fact telling the truth. Using the editor as an example is also a poor route, considering these days, editors rarely edit much of anything or actually end up doing their jobs and correcting story line inaccuracies in general.   Decided not to go, actually. The only theater it's still playing in is one I despise. May as well ask me to sign over my firstborn for a ticket. The bastards. 

Too bad about the movie. Still hope you get a chance to see it, I think you'll like Magneto and Xavier's performance. 

@SC: -shrugs- I'm not magically right because I want to be. I'm right because the source material supports my argument. But whatever.  Maybe I'll see it on DVD. 

@SC: @Lance Uppercut: I objectively applaud that your discussion didn't turn into a s**t slinging match, but I subjectively wish it had done. =P

PS: X-Men First Class is awesome!!

Sentry,I don't know why people have been over exaggerating Thor as of late it's getting a bit old. Thor has done some powerful things but at the same time has gotten his butt handed to him by people who have no business beating or even giving him a hard time. People Compare him to superman when he has done nothing consistently that put's him on Superman's level. The Sentry was Wrecking Thor in Siege period it was not even an evenly matched battle. Thor Holding back or the use of his all mighty hammer are just ways to over exaggerate him further, Stop it Thor is not that great, ask Hulk someone who constantly smacks him around...

Thor

Sentry is stronger but writers write in such way that Thor killed Sentry and looked way more stronger

Batman...joking.

I'd say Sentry has more raw power at his disposal. But as we all know, he's not working with a full set up there. So even though I feel he has more raw power, I also think that Thor would win in an actual battle due to his experience and the fact that he's not nuts.

@Thor's hammmer said:

Thor seems Physically more powerful and has feats far more impressive than Those the Sentry has but this is mainly cause of how long he's had his own series. Thor also has the potential to become more powerful since he has npot mastered his own mystical powers unlik eother Gods like Odin or Loki. from what i've seen of both Characters it would go Thor at full potential>>>>>>>>>>>>>VoidSentry>>>regular Thor>>>>>>Regular Sentry.

Normal Sentry is weaker than Thor. Void Sentry is stronger. Berserker Thor is still weaker than Void Setry. Odin Force Thor stomps any kind of Sentry. King Thor mega-stomps any kind of Sentry. Rune King Thor blinks Void out of existence.

I think that sentry is no match for an odinforce powered Thor, but regular sentry is definitely stronger than regular Thor, otherwise we should assume that Thor let sentry/void destroy asgard, kill ares and loki without showing his full potential, that would be pretty nasty :)

By the way, i think that the enraged void shown in siege is not stronger than regular sentry, they are just different aspects of bob's personality. A stable sentry stalemated the collective, who had the combined power of millions of mutants.

Thor riding an helicarrier curbstomps :P

Sentry has more destructive power IMO

Sentry

. Thor is overall more powerful Beyond The physical aspects ,Thor is a better fighter, Hercules, Wonder man ,Namor, & the Hulk have out fought him Sentry, Sentry had to exert all of his powers reverting himself the hulk to normal form, Thor has never hit the Hulk w/any of his major attacks Dimensional rifts, God Blasts, Unfettered might, or divine lightning because He has stated he has never wished to kill the hulk( Thor is the protector of Midgard), Now siege was a joke the Asgardians should have massacred the villain & Hammer forces, even assisted by Loki & amped by Norn stones. Thor has Defeated Ares in Olympus & Hades in his home realm Ares is stronger than on earth,(from class 50 to class 75)then Hades tripled that strength(far greater than The Thing or colossus) The real closest feat to Thor was Sentry dispersed Absorbing Man (he reformed later)still very impressive! Thor has one shot Namor (read the complaints),But he also did it to Abomination, pimp slapped Titania, Wonder man, & a Near Hulk level Mr.Hyde & Thor Killed Blockbuster (Thing Level) w/ a single reactionary strike ( while at half strength), Thor Killed an amped up Thing(fear itself) w/one shot & Knocked the amped up Hulk/Null into orbit

Now! The Thor Sentry fight should have been an entire book w/ Thor taking it to Mars or another Dimension so they both could really cut loose, & How come every time I see that DC marvel cross over Pic Sups vs Hulk They never show the next shot where the Hulk Buckles Superman he starts blocking & Talks the Hulk down(not cannon anyway) Sentry's greatest advantage is his supposedly unlimited psionic powers , But he lacks experience w/them. Thor w/ Mjolnir can access, emit & control any & all form of Storms, energy,& magic, He has also drained powerhouses of their powers/abilities like vs. Kang, Thanos, Magnito , Hyperion multiplied it 10 even 100 fold channeled it back. Sentry of course is a Superman style character & has the weakness vs.magic , Sentry in my opinion was brought in to fill the gap after THOR & Avengers Disassembled, Once Thor returned two blond powerhouse was redundant . In the Uncanny Avengers the rematch is on & it seems Sentry's getting some respect (no Void BS) this should be Titanic showdown. I hope

League of Juice Flushers.

@theacidskull said:

Eh if you mean me? I said thats what it 'seemed' like. Its not a bad thing either. It is what it is, Pak is a proud and sincere fanboy of Hulk. Its the same side of the coin of passion. It has no bearing on quality unless someone misunderstands context. This is fiction, writers are allowed to be biased with favorites, its writers that and fans that aren't simply honest with their intent thats more problematic.

Like do you like Peter David right? Marvel wanted him to do something like World War Hulk but he didn't like the idea so it led to him leaving the title. PAD was a great Hulk writer, but he didn't want to write stuff like World War Hulk, PAK on the other hand loves stuff like that. So are you saying PAD is a bad writer? Different styles of writing, works for some fans more than others.

@theacidskull said:

Oh okay... it was just I think I was the only poster in this thread to mention that Pak's Hulk run seemed like an opportunity to increase his feats. =p

When I use the word seem's though I really mean in a first impressions superficial way and I don't think its a bad thing either. This is super hero comics and the Hulk is a huge green rage monster in purple shorts and Stan Lee created him when comics was still primarily for children, and young teens and Greg Pak was a huge fan of Hulk as a kid. If he wants to write stories about Hulk doing ridiculously cool and fun awesome things then thats not a bad thing at all in my opinion. The only place it could be construed as a negative is a place like Battles or posters criticizing Pak. Mike Carey's Legacy Rogue arcs was similar. Michael Avon Oeming is a huge mythology fan, his Ares mini series was much the same way. The writers have depth and they get to show a favorable side to the characters.

The thing about Pak's writing (and many other writers) is that there is opportunity for too much bias. Like there was one point where Hulk was a new character yes? A writer decided to have Hulk beat Namor or Captain America or show some sort of superiority (strength for example)? Would it be fair if a writer fan of the older characters had them destroy Hulk at the next opportunity? Thats what Pak wanted Hulk to do to Sentry. Beating Sentry, sure? Breaking every bone in his body because Void did that to Hulk? Meh. Oh and actually PAD actually did that too, but with Dr Ock after Erik Larson had Dr Ock beat Hulk up. He had Hulk beat up Dr Ock pretty easy in his story. Like you and me are lucky? Since we are Hulk fans and Hulk is a popular character, but there are a lot of fans out there that need good heroes, and not all of them will be Hulk, and some times fans and writers can get a bit weird about power feats and trying to make their favorites special. There is a balance to be had.

I definitely agree Pak's writing is more than feats. He has a nice grasp of character and he knows his Marvel history pretty good. Uses a lot of characters bygone and from the past which is always nice to see them reused and updated ^_^

@theacidskull said:

Agreed! ^_^

It was editorially enforced but I agree with your point - heh heh (they were protecting Sentry for his role in Siege aka basically Bendis blocked his use) - i think comics would be better off if we had more writers like Pak. Writers who are fans of the character. Too many writers don't quite get why a character is likable and so you run the risk of alienating the core fanbase. Pak's enthusiasm for the Hulk shined through in all his stories and I can't really think of any established Hulk fan I knew disliking it. It was also good enough to draw in new fans.

Void Sentry>>>>regular Thor>regular Sentry

Sentry

THor

Sentry

Thor

Sentry, but Thor can hit you harder

Bob !

Sentry

Sentry. This thread was started before Death Seed Sentry, which put Thor down fairly easily and then stopped a Celestial's descent onto Earth by himself on one side, and a SUPER amped Rogue - who had taken the powers of EVERY other Avenger - on the other side. The way it was written, Sentry's strength = The strength of everyone else put together. So yeah, Sentry.

Not really true. It's just Rogue mimicking powers to her own limitations. It's not like she cant contain the SUM of all these powers.

EDIT:

As for the thread - potentially Thor, for now, Sentry.

##

Buddy, re-read Uncanny Avengers #21 and #22. Rouge absorbed the powers of ALL the existing Avengers - which included Hulk and Hyperion - as well as all the available X-Men. She did not just do this "to the limits of her ability", implying that it was less than the collective sum of all the people she absorbed. She actually DID contain the collected powers temporarily, and it was driving her insane. She stated that she absorbed the collective powers of hundreds of heroes/mutants, which made her glow and "Hulk" up. It was Captain America's plan, but he knew that she was always going to be HALF the solution. The other half? That would be the Sentry.

I'm going to assume you read those issues, but if you didn't I will post scans. BTW, the point is Sentry > Thor.

@dogsoldier88:

Yeah I have that issue. Once again, we cannot really be sure she had the sum of all these powers inside of her. I also don't buy that Sentry was powerful enough to be even compared to an "entity" that contained the powers of Hulk, Wonderman, Hyperion, numerous Omega level mutants (which she certainly cannot exploit properly since she isn't Omega herself) and a hundred of others, just to rival a guy whose feats in this happening were around Thanos level. I agree that there's certainly a thing or two we haven't seen yet, and so are his limitations, but I can't see how this pure vaguesness can be seen as a clear indication of something... What exactly? And this ambiguity is already a given with Sentry in all forms and personas and that has become so tiresome. But that Remender writing for you, the true successor of Bendis lol

DSS is well above Thor I'm really not arguing that. What I say is that I can't see what are those showings that can be compared to an entity that embodied the sum (as you imply if I understand correctly) of hundreds with powerhouses and OLMs among them.

Thor gets mindraped