The thing with Marvel the last couple of months is that they overflew the market, they did it so big that no one could keep up with so much product, in the last two years I've seen as many new ongoing series, some great (Doctor Voodoo, Thor: TMA), some bad (Deadpool: Merc with a Mouth, Warmachine) and some that I wanted to try later along the way but never got the chance (Black Widow, Hawkeye & Mockingbird)
Marvel has been killing outright ongoing series and although some of them have been because of story reasons (Hercules, Daredevil) most of them were because Marvel didn't like the sales figures and instead of giving them the chance to find an audience or try their place in the trade paperback market (Punisher Max was a low selling title but it is constantly selling well in tps long after its finale)
These are all of the series that Marvel has cancelled in two years before they reach the 20 issues mark:
Doctor Voodoo (5 issues)
Sword (5 issues)
Frankencastle (10 issues)
Young Allies (6 issues)
She-Hulks (4 issues) Before even released
Black Widow (7 issues)
Hawkeye & Mockingbird (5 issues)
Atlas (5 issues)
Deadpool: Merc with a mouth (13 issues)
Deadpool corps (No number of issues yet)
Deadpool team-up (No number of issues yet)
Wolverine: Weapon X (16 issues, relaunched as Wolverine)
Thor: The Mighty Avenger (6 issues)
War Machine (12 issues)
Captain Britain and MI 3 (15 issues)
I don't know about you people, but when I add an ongoing series to my pull-list I expect to have an ongoing series. Not a miniseries, not a cut short story, but an ongoing. I get that sometimes series are cancelled, great series are cancelled, but if you don't even give them the chance to find their legs then what was the point of launching them as an ongoing in the first place?
Marvel
Formerly known by names including "Atlas" and "Timely", Marvel Entertainment is the publisher of comic books featuring iconic characters and teams such as the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, the Avengers, the X-Men, Iron Man, the Hulk, Thor, Captain America and Daredevil. Currently owned by the Walt Disney Company, Marvel is one of the "Big Two" comic publishers along with DC Comics.
Way too many cancellations........
I admire the fact that Marvel has put out lots of books and tested the market with a lot of characters, but it's always a gamble. If not enough people buy them then of course Marvel will discontinue them. It's not in their interest to loose money. As fans, all one can do is buy the books we like in support of them and hope enough other people do the same that they are able to keep making them. If not, then of course there will be cancellations. That is just how it works. Marvel (or any other publisher) doesn't owe us a continued series if the sales are poor.
I agree it can be tough if a series doesn't reach an audience quickly. It would be nice if every series was a hit right off the bat, but like I said it's always a gamble. At least Marvel is putting them out there.
I know that not all series will succeed but can Marvel really claim that they gave the series a chance when they cancel it so fast? They determine most series as a "success" or a failure depending on the number of retailer orders. Thing is, the number of orders doesn't equal the fan demand, sometimes its more, sometimes its less but retailers are often careful about ordering too much product of a new series.
Retailers know that Superman, Batman and Spider-man will sell no matter what, but they don't know if people will buy Black Widow or Young Allies until after the product is in their stores. Also us as fans can't know if a series will be good one until we buy it, we can't know if we'll like a product based only on solicits. She-Hulks was an ongoing which was cut down to 4 issues before even the first issue was released so I don't think it is fair to give Marvel the credit of tasting the waters.
If they want to check if a character is viable then why not launch first a miniseries followed by an ongoing if the sales are high enough? That was the method that both DC and Marvel have been using for decades and it has worked pretty well. What would have happened if the Sandman had been cancelled at issue number four only because of solicit numbers before the product even came?
Also it hurts the image of Marvel when it comes to trying to launch a new ongoing that doesn't feature the name Spider-man, or Avengers in it. I'm ansious for Nick Spencer's Ironman 2.0 featuring War Machine, but I'm hesistant to add it to my pull-list to learn that this comic has been cancelled at issue 6.
Black Widow was a really great series up until the creative team's changed, Liu and Acuna were great on the book, Liu knows how to write a butt-kicking female character, and even though I use to not like Acune's art, it grew on me as the story progressed. But after they left when the first arc was over, the new creative team was boring, the art was the only good part in my opnion, but the story was just boring. I think a reason a lot of books suffer is because Marvel spreads out their best creative teams with to many books, ever since Epting left Captain America, the book has changed artist every storyline, even some DURING a current storyline. Same with Bendis, I persoanlly liek his writing, but they spread him out so far into too many books and his writing begins to suffer.
I know it's tragic, and I'm absolutely gutted about Black Widow and Hawkeye and Mockingbird, but it is the consumers fault for not buying the titles of lesser known heroes. Marvel won't keep launching or continuing these titles if they don't sell. They'll just keep creating titles with the headings Spider-man/Avengers/Wolverine/X-Men because they know they will sell! People should go out and but these titles, and if they aren't selling it's not Marvel's fault.
(P.S. I knew Young Allies was destined to be cancelled before 10 from the very first solicit)
No final word as to whether or not Hawkeye & Mockingbird is cancelled. I believe its on hiatus until after Widowmaker mini ends. Then I believe there is supposed to be a Hawkeye miniseries. Hell who knows at this point. I agree though, Marvel pulls the plug before a series finds an audience.
" The thing with Marvel the last couple of months is that they overflew the market, they did it so big that no one could keep up with so much product, in the last two years I've seen as many new ongoing series, some great (Doctor Voodoo, Thor: TMA), some bad (Deadpool: Merc with a Mouth, Warmachine) and some that I wanted to try later along the way but never got the chance (Black Widow, Hawkeye & Mockingbird) Marvel has been killing outright ongoing series and although some of them have been because of story reasons (Hercules, Daredevil) most of them were because Marvel didn't like the sales figures and instead of giving them the chance to find an audience or try their place in the trade paperback market (Punisher Max was a low selling title but it is constantly selling well in tps long after its finale) These are all of the series that Marvel has cancelled in two years before they reach the 20 issues mark: Doctor Voodoo (5 issues) Sword (5 issues) Frankencastle (10 issues) Young Allies (6 issues) She-Hulks (4 issues) Before even released Black Widow (7 issues) Hawkeye & Mockingbird (5 issues) Atlas (5 issues) Deadpool: Merc with a mouth (13 issues) Deadpool corps (No number of issues yet) Deadpool team-up (No number of issues yet) Wolverine: Weapon X (16 issues, relaunched as Wolverine) Thor: The Mighty Avenger (6 issues) War Machine (12 issues) Captain Britain and MI 3 (15 issues) I don't know about you people, but when I add an ongoing series to my pull-list I expect to have an ongoing series. Not a miniseries, not a cut short story, but an ongoing. I get that sometimes series are cancelled, great series are cancelled, but if you don't even give them the chance to find their legs then what was the point of launching them as an ongoing in the first place? "To be fair Merc with a mouth was always a limited series, even Rob Liefeld said so
Does FrankenCastle even count as a cancellation? I thought it was part of the Punisher ongoing series but they changed him back into Punisher so they changed the title back.
some great (Doctor Voodoo, Thor: TMA), some bad (Deadpool: Merc with a Mouth, Warmachine) and some that I wanted to try later along the way but never got the chance (Black Widow, Hawkeye & Mockingbird)Voodoo got a raw deal from Marvel.
" Does FrankenCastle even count as a cancellation? I thought it was part of the Punisher ongoing series but they changed him back into Punisher so they changed the title back. "It was mostly fan backlash that they ended it so soon and returned the Punisher status quo
" @TheMess1428 said:Pretty sure Remender intended to have Franken-Castle from the beginning and then switch him back. Could be wrong? Hope I'm not." Does FrankenCastle even count as a cancellation? I thought it was part of the Punisher ongoing series but they changed him back into Punisher so they changed the title back. "It was mostly fan backlash that they ended it so soon and returned the Punisher status quo "
NIGHTHUNTER! :D
Get yo'self back to the RPG section, fool, I don't check these other forums :P
I kinda agree... I'm lucky in that one of my favourite series, Pet Avengers, is never cancelled because it isn't an ongoing. It's a series of minis one after the other, with short breaks in between so the artist can keep up. But I have felt the annoyance of Marvel cancelling an ongoing before. Immortal Iron Fist. Sure it got to 20-something issues, but for the first 12 issues it was an excellent series that sold very well. Then what happened? The artist changed. And for some reason, Marvel couldn't find a replacement who was actually capable of drawing a coherant image. Nor a writer who was anything more than just... Competent. So thanks to their neglect, the series was cancelled. Why they couldn't find a new creative team is beyond me.
" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:Yes, it was always the plan for him to go back to normal, but the backlash made it happen sooner rather than later" @TheMess1428 said:Pretty sure Remender intended to have Franken-Castle from the beginning and then switch him back. Could be wrong? Hope I'm not. "" Does FrankenCastle even count as a cancellation? I thought it was part of the Punisher ongoing series but they changed him back into Punisher so they changed the title back. "It was mostly fan backlash that they ended it so soon and returned the Punisher status quo "
"NIGHTHUNTER! :D
"
Get yo'self back to the RPG section, fool, I don't check these other forums :P
I kinda agree... I'm lucky in that one of my favourite series, Pet Avengers, is never cancelled because it isn't an ongoing. It's a series of minis one after the other, with short breaks in between so the artist can keep up. But I have felt the annoyance of Marvel cancelling an ongoing before. Immortal Iron Fist. Sure it got to 20-something issues, but for the first 12 issues it was an excellent series that sold very well. Then what happened? The artist changed. And for some reason, Marvel couldn't find a replacement who was actually capable of drawing a coherant image. Nor a writer who was anything more than just... Competent. So thanks to their neglect, the series was cancelled. Why they couldn't find a new creative team is beyond me.
Ah my loyal partner, how you've been? Sorry man, will enter finals so not yet for awhile. Immortal Ironfist was an amazing series until Brubaker, Fraction and Aja left.
@Emperor Gonzo Noir said:
" @Nighthunter said:" The thing with Marvel the last couple of months is that they overflew the market, they did it so big that no one could keep up with so much product, in the last two years I've seen as many new ongoing series, some great (Doctor Voodoo, Thor: TMA), some bad (Deadpool: Merc with a Mouth, Warmachine) and some that I wanted to try later along the way but never got the chance (Black Widow, Hawkeye & Mockingbird) Marvel has been killing outright ongoing series and although some of them have been because of story reasons (Hercules, Daredevil) most of them were because Marvel didn't like the sales figures and instead of giving them the chance to find an audience or try their place in the trade paperback market (Punisher Max was a low selling title but it is constantly selling well in tps long after its finale) These are all of the series that Marvel has cancelled in two years before they reach the 20 issues mark: Doctor Voodoo (5 issues) Sword (5 issues) Frankencastle (10 issues) Young Allies (6 issues) She-Hulks (4 issues) Before even released Black Widow (7 issues) Hawkeye & Mockingbird (5 issues) Atlas (5 issues) Deadpool: Merc with a mouth (13 issues) Deadpool corps (No number of issues yet) Deadpool team-up (No number of issues yet) Wolverine: Weapon X (16 issues, relaunched as Wolverine) Thor: The Mighty Avenger (6 issues) War Machine (12 issues) Captain Britain and MI 3 (15 issues) I don't know about you people, but when I add an ongoing series to my pull-list I expect to have an ongoing series. Not a miniseries, not a cut short story, but an ongoing. I get that sometimes series are cancelled, great series are cancelled, but if you don't even give them the chance to find their legs then what was the point of launching them as an ongoing in the first place? "To be fair Merc with a mouth was always a limited series, even Rob Liefeld said so "
It was at first gonna be a limited series, then it was expanded into an ongoing. When sales started declining (due to so many comics of the same character) the writer was told to choose between Merc with a mouth and Deadpool Corps. He chose deadpool corps which ironically just got cancelled also due to sales
.
@longbowhunter said:
"No final word as to whether or not Hawkeye & Mockingbird is cancelled. I believe its on hiatus until after Widowmaker mini ends. Then I believe there is supposed to be a Hawkeye miniseries. Hell who knows at this point. I agree though, Marvel pulls the plug before a series finds an audience. "
Its cancelled, it will be followed by a Hawkeye comic but the ongoing series won't appear.
@Baddamdog said:
"I know it's tragic, and I'm absolutely gutted about Black Widow and Hawkeye and Mockingbird, but it is the consumers fault for not buying the titles of lesser known heroes. Marvel won't keep launching or continuing these titles if they don't sell. They'll just keep creating titles with the headings Spider-man/Avengers/Wolverine/X-Men because they know they will sell! People should go out and but these titles, and if they aren't selling it's not Marvel's fault. (P.S. I knew Young Allies was destined to be cancelled before 10 from the very first solicit) "
Its not the readers fault if the decision to cancel the comic is done before the product even comes to the stores, retailers order the product, not fans and if the company does it before retailers even tell them the sales figures then who is to blame. Also montly sales aren't the only thing that should be taken into account, a very strong aspect but not the only one.
Blue Beetle had low sales from the beginning, yet it was highly regarded in reviews. Even though the numbers were down DC decided that the book deserved more of a chance and while sales didn't increase that much the fanbase became more attached to the character, which made them follow Jaime to Teen Titans and Booster Gold when he got a co-feature in the comic of the former.
After that since the character wasn't thrown to limbo he had the chance to be tested in other media and seems like he'll beat many other high selling titles in reaching that market. He's only 4 years old and has already been in the Brave and the bold cartoon, the videogame, will appear in Smallville and a live-action show is in development. Had Blue Beetle been cancelled due to bad solicitation numbers at issue 4 nothing of this would have happened.
" @InnerVenom123 said:Plus the fact that he was back to normal in Shadowland. They had to explain that." @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:Yes, it was always the plan for him to go back to normal, but the backlash made it happen sooner rather than later "" @TheMess1428 said:Pretty sure Remender intended to have Franken-Castle from the beginning and then switch him back. Could be wrong? Hope I'm not. "" Does FrankenCastle even count as a cancellation? I thought it was part of the Punisher ongoing series but they changed him back into Punisher so they changed the title back. "It was mostly fan backlash that they ended it so soon and returned the Punisher status quo "
Don't forget the short-lived SWORD series too. Prof that even vague X-Men connections can't keep a series going.
As for Psyclocke #1 selling out, that doesn't prove a thing. First issues often sell out. There are maverick yet popular characters who create good sales in team books, but can't carry their own on-goings... After all, how many times did Gambit's solo adventures fail?
The mini series should be the way forward. It's short life-span can give fans a taste for the type of adventures they're getting & what the characters are like. It would also create a solid rounded story without being cut off prematurely due to bad sales. Then, if the sales are consistently high enough there can be more sequel mini series. Just look at the success of the Power Pack & Pet Avengers mini series for proof that it DOES work.
I'm deeply saddened by the cancellation of the Young Allies. However, I do have hope that there will be future mini stories (not just the cross-over with the Avengers Academy) based on the afterword in the final issue.
Deadpool corps (No number of issues yet)These are still coming out how have they been canceled
Deadpool team-up (No number of issues yet)
there is talk that one of them will be cancelled but it hasn't happened yet
So Black Widow #8 will be the last in the latest ongoing? I ask because the last one was Kiss or Kill part 2 of 3... kinda odd if they just leave it there.
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