Should Marvel ban Superman knockoffs characters?

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#51 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

I see I've attracted the Sentry fans, predictable comments as usual. Sentry is nothing more than plot device to quickly remove the threat with various writers being indecisive what the hell his origin is.

Hell he's worst than an Ultimate Nullifier. He's nothing more than an excuse for writers to show they can write an edgy dark Superman who rip people apart and turn into a a giant dark blob of evil. He's made little impact in Marvel U. And should be forgotten as quickly as Typeface and Spider-Man's totem powers. Before I get jumped yes I have read the second Sentry book by Jenkins and even that didn't give me reason to care about him. His life is just one big retcon after the other.

@hillbillymorangie: Assuming they don't use that god awful origin from the New 52.

#52 Posted by HillbillyMorangie (927 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya: No I mean Carol Danvers lol this is a Marvel knock of not a DC knock offs ;)

#53 Posted by mtrakos (563 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Man and Captain Marvel knock offs of superman? I dont think so... Hyperion ok Gladiator has a different twist and honestly is easier to be a fan of than superman. You ever read Planetary? you'd be very pissed about the characters. Some like honda over toyota. Or ford over chevy. Best day in comic history

#54 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Edited by HillbillyMorangie (927 posts) - - Show Bio

@mtrakos: Carol Danvers is Marvels, "Earths Mightiest Hero", I think we have a different understanding of what makes Superman a hero. I am not just basing it on his power level and types of powers, but his role in the DC universe. Cosmic Defender of Earth, so Carol Danvers is surely the best analogue of Superman?

Oh and Hyperion is always alternative universe as far as I'm aware, so is already banned as being to much of a superman clone? Imo

#56 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

This thread is extremely stupid. The Sentry and Superman have nothing in common. Their powers, personalities, origins and style are completely different. The only thing they have in common is the 'S' they wear, but who said that was exclusive to Superman? You would have more of a case with Hyperion who is suppose to be inspired by Superman.

But again like I said when does Superman have a copyright to powerhouses that fly??? Overpowered abilities??? They're are way more overpowered people than the Sentry in both Marvel and DC, don't even get me started. Again since when does Superman have a copyright on powerhouses that fly???

I usually don't agree with the people who bash on character inspired by Superman, but he actually has a point. A lot of the characters he mentioned were spawned for the specific purpose of showing off how much a write is "better at Superman". Everybody was like "Yeah, Sentry is how Superman would actually be!"

Even though each one of these characters may have served purpose originally, I think it would be better if they didn't stick around for main ongoing continuities, because, since their origins and concept designs are what they are, they end up looking all the same.

If you notice, he's bashing characters who have distinctive winks at Superman, like Sentry and Hyperion, but didn't say anything about Wonder Man or Captain Marvel, two flying powerhouses (to your point) that are clearly designed for something else.

I think that the OP could have us think about why a writer decides to give so much space to a meta-character (a character that comments on a character).

The Sentry is more based off Miracle Man than Superman. This guy explains everything in detail than me.

http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/sentry-faq-is-sentry-a-superman-ripoff-1480145/

You and the OP would have actually have had a point IF the Sentry was based off of the Sentry, but he's not. The character is inspired by Marvel Man. No Sentry is NOT how Superman would be, because their powersets and personalities are so different. Why the heck would Superman be suffering from FREAKING mental illness which actually have affect on his powers??? That makes no sense. The character Sentry is actually a character with flaws, even if he may be powerful. Sentrys origins is nowhere similar to to Superman. And how the heck is Wonderman and especially Captain Marvel not similar to Superman??? Superman and even the writers themselves called Cap Supermans equal. Cap Marvel powersets are similar to Superman, only differences is that Cap Marvel powers are magical based. They both are powerhouses that can fly and both wear capes.

The Op is just talking about things he doesn't even know about and even stated he dislikes the characters he is talking about.

Why don't both you and the OP actually read a comic with the Sentry in it and then try to make a point. Sentry is a wink at MIRACLE MAN.

#57 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

I see I've attracted the Sentry fans, predictable comments as usual. Sentry is nothing more than plot device to quickly remove the threat with various writers being indecisive what the hell his origin is.

Hell he's worst than an Ultimate Nullifier. He's nothing more than an excuse for writers to show they can write an edgy dark Superman who rip people apart and turn into a a giant dark blob of evil. He's made little impact in Marvel U. And should be forgotten as quickly as Typeface and Spider-Man's totem powers. Before I get jumped yes I have read the second Sentry book by Jenkins and even that didn't give me reason to care about him. His life is just one big retcon after the other.

@hillbillymorangie: Assuming they don't use that god awful origin from the New 52.

Why don't you explain how the Sentry is a Superman knock off, instead of continuing to write silly stuff.

Sentry doesn't at most rely on physical powers unlike Superman. Sentry has a more diverse set of powers. Which include telepathy, energy/absorption, molecule manipulation, immortality, resurrection, teleportation, force fields, regeneration, shapeshifting,etc,etc. Superman is more of a powerhouse. Sentry is not, he is more based of off Miracle Man and his writer clearly wanted that. His most powerful fights against people like Void, Collector, Molecule Man, Photon, Avengers didn't even involve him slugging it out like Superman always does, but using his powers.

As for personalities...Sentry as a character is a flawed but yet complex character with a mental illness. A mental illness which he is battling which makes the character interesting. His mental state is connected his powers. The Sentry tries to be a hero, but he knows he has a darkside which is the Void. A darkside that comes out of he can't control his mental illness. Sentry is not a 'Dark Superman' because the Sentry is good, but he is battling his evil side due to his mental illness. Also due to Sentry's(bob) mental illness he is afraid of his powers. How the heck is that anything like Superman???

Origins...Superman is an Alien. The Sentry was a human who drunk a serum which gave him powers. His powers which Bendis hinted most likely comes from biblical proportions, since Moses was using those same powers as the Void.

If thats not enough for you. Read this thread by a person who actually knows what he talking about.

http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/sentry-faq-is-sentry-a-superman-ripoff-1480145/#0

Before you make a silly thread like this at least back up your points.

And NO. Sentry is not a plot device to remove powerful thread. That just shows you do not even read anything with Sentry in it. In Bendis run(which is where Sentry mostly appeared), he was the VICTIM of plot device because he was too strong when he was a part of the New Avengers and even Dark Avengers. The only point you have is his fight with Molecule Man.

#58 Edited by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio


Well Atlantis was mentioned first by the Romans but any way neither of these two characters are the first water based superhero anyway

I just appreciate a good burn.

(+)

#59 Posted by DarkDay (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

I see I've attracted the Sentry fans, predictable comments as usual. Sentry is nothing more than plot device to quickly remove the threat with various writers being indecisive what the hell his origin is.

Hell he's worst than an Ultimate Nullifier. He's nothing more than an excuse for writers to show they can write an edgy dark Superman who rip people apart and turn into a a giant dark blob of evil. He's made little impact in Marvel U. And should be forgotten as quickly as Typeface and Spider-Man's totem powers. Before I get jumped yes I have read the second Sentry book by Jenkins and even that didn't give me reason to care about him. His life is just one big retcon after the other.

@hillbillymorangie: Assuming they don't use that god awful origin from the New 52.

Why don't you explain how the Sentry is a Superman knock off, instead of continuing to write silly stuff.

Sentry doesn't at most rely on physical powers unlike Superman. Sentry has a more diverse set of powers. Which include telepathy, energy/absorption, molecule manipulation, immortality, resurrection, teleportation, force fields, regeneration, shapeshifting,etc,etc. Superman is more of a powerhouse. Sentry is not, he is more based of off Miracle Man and his writer clearly wanted that. His most powerful fights against people like Void, Collector, Molecule Man, Photon, Avengers didn't even involve him slugging it out like Superman always does, but using his powers.

As for personalities...Sentry as a character is a flawed but yet complex character with a mental illness. A mental illness which he is battling which makes the character interesting. His mental state is connected his powers. The Sentry tries to be a hero, but he knows he has a darkside which is the Void. A darkside that comes out of he can't control his mental illness. Sentry is not a 'Dark Superman' because the Sentry is good, but he is battling his evil side due to his mental illness. Also due to Sentry's(bob) mental illness he is afraid of his powers. How the heck is that anything like Superman???

Origins...Superman is an Alien. The Sentry was a human who drunk a serum which gave him powers. His powers which Bendis hinted most likely comes from biblical proportions, since Moses was using those same powers as the Void.

If thats not enough for you. Read this thread by a person who actually knows what he talking about.

http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/sentry-faq-is-sentry-a-superman-ripoff-1480145/#0

Before you make a silly thread like this at least back up your points.

And NO. Sentry is not a plot device to remove powerful thread. That just shows you do not even read anything with Sentry in it. In Bendis run(which is where Sentry mostly appeared), he was the VICTIM of plot device because he was too strong when he was a part of the New Avengers and even Dark Avengers. The only point you have is his fight with Molecule Man.

While I agree with all of this, I'd point out that Bob didn't just drink a serum, he was a junkie looking for a fix. So yeah, to me that makes the character even more interesting. Not because of an edgy past or anything quite so silly but because it compounds the concept of a flawed and damaged man suddenly given "the keys to the kingdom" so to speak. Honestly loved the Sentry as a part of the New Avengers. It was only later that I started to dislike the direction they went with him, but even so that hardly invalidates him as a character or concept. And he definitely wasn't the rip-off Superman that he sometimes gets labeled.

#60 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first: jeesh, you can correct people without being a d**k about it, seriously, where did that tone come from? I actually read a lot of stuff with Sentry, I justt didn't consider that he was inspired by Miracle Man instead of Superman. It's just that Superman is so much more popular.

Sorry if I offended somebody, even though I can't see why.

I'll go join a discussion where people don't attack me when I'm wrong.

#61 Posted by swordmasterD (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

This may be slightly off topic but when you said DC powerhouses I did not see Dr.Manhattan... Also there are many superhero rip-off's (a lot of them, like dead pool are made as parodies) so why don't we let the MARVEL super man copies be (plus i quite like sentry)

#62 Posted by Farkam (5011 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really care.

#63 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@swordmasterd: I don't like Sentry, I find him to be just another deconstruction of Miracle Man who's just another deconstruction of Captain Marvel I have little interest in seeing them written as the solve everything in one issue. I didn't count Doctor Manhattan because one he's an indie character from Vertigo a branch of DC his and two I don't count indie characters because they are merely deconstruction or an indie writers take of an establish character.

#64 Posted by Spideysense44 (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

Both DC and Marvel have knockoffs so it doesnt realli matter man

#65 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Sentry- besides the costume, there's nothing in common with them
  • Gladiator- the biggest similarity is there powers, not alot otherwise
  • Hyperion- well considering he was intended to be sorta a parody at first, it makes sense

You're very quick to think everything is a "knock off" of Superman despite the fact Superman is a "ripoff" of John Carter and Hercules.

#66 Posted by swordmasterD (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
#67 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkday said:

@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

@tigerkaya said:

I see I've attracted the Sentry fans, predictable comments as usual. Sentry is nothing more than plot device to quickly remove the threat with various writers being indecisive what the hell his origin is.

Hell he's worst than an Ultimate Nullifier. He's nothing more than an excuse for writers to show they can write an edgy dark Superman who rip people apart and turn into a a giant dark blob of evil. He's made little impact in Marvel U. And should be forgotten as quickly as Typeface and Spider-Man's totem powers. Before I get jumped yes I have read the second Sentry book by Jenkins and even that didn't give me reason to care about him. His life is just one big retcon after the other.

@hillbillymorangie: Assuming they don't use that god awful origin from the New 52.

Why don't you explain how the Sentry is a Superman knock off, instead of continuing to write silly stuff.

Sentry doesn't at most rely on physical powers unlike Superman. Sentry has a more diverse set of powers. Which include telepathy, energy/absorption, molecule manipulation, immortality, resurrection, teleportation, force fields, regeneration, shapeshifting,etc,etc. Superman is more of a powerhouse. Sentry is not, he is more based of off Miracle Man and his writer clearly wanted that. His most powerful fights against people like Void, Collector, Molecule Man, Photon, Avengers didn't even involve him slugging it out like Superman always does, but using his powers.

As for personalities...Sentry as a character is a flawed but yet complex character with a mental illness. A mental illness which he is battling which makes the character interesting. His mental state is connected his powers. The Sentry tries to be a hero, but he knows he has a darkside which is the Void. A darkside that comes out of he can't control his mental illness. Sentry is not a 'Dark Superman' because the Sentry is good, but he is battling his evil side due to his mental illness. Also due to Sentry's(bob) mental illness he is afraid of his powers. How the heck is that anything like Superman???

Origins...Superman is an Alien. The Sentry was a human who drunk a serum which gave him powers. His powers which Bendis hinted most likely comes from biblical proportions, since Moses was using those same powers as the Void.

If thats not enough for you. Read this thread by a person who actually knows what he talking about.

http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/sentry-faq-is-sentry-a-superman-ripoff-1480145/#0

Before you make a silly thread like this at least back up your points.

And NO. Sentry is not a plot device to remove powerful thread. That just shows you do not even read anything with Sentry in it. In Bendis run(which is where Sentry mostly appeared), he was the VICTIM of plot device because he was too strong when he was a part of the New Avengers and even Dark Avengers. The only point you have is his fight with Molecule Man.

While I agree with all of this, I'd point out that Bob didn't just drink a serum, he was a junkie looking for a fix. So yeah, to me that makes the character even more interesting. Not because of an edgy past or anything quite so silly but because it compounds the concept of a flawed and damaged man suddenly given "the keys to the kingdom" so to speak. Honestly loved the Sentry as a part of the New Avengers. It was only later that I started to dislike the direction they went with him, but even so that hardly invalidates him as a character or concept. And he definitely wasn't the rip-off Superman that he sometimes gets labeled.

You hit the nail with the bolded. Agreed...Yeah when he first joined the New Avengers it seemed like these were going well until after Secret Invasions.

#68 Edited by The Stegman (25529 posts) - - Show Bio

They need to get rid of Hyperion, hell, ALL of the Squadron Supreme. The most blatant "rip offs" to ever exist.

#69 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

@king_stranglehold_da_first: jeesh, you can correct people without being a d**k about it, seriously, where did that tone come from? I actually read a lot of stuff with Sentry, I justt didn't consider that he was inspired by Miracle Man instead of Superman. It's just that Superman is so much more popular.

Sorry if I offended somebody, even though I can't see why.

I'll go join a discussion where people don't attack me when I'm wrong.

No I was attacking you or trying to be a dick but correcting your ignorance of the character. Why? Because people continue to make that mistake even when its been proven that Sentry has nothing in common with Superman besides donning a old school superhero type costume with a cape if you get what I mean. No you didn't offend anyone, but you(not mostly you but more of the OP) annoyed everyone by stating the Sentry is a Superman ripoff by not really explaining why without even reading the comic the character is in, but only based off their dislike of the character. Which is very annoying. Most people who say that the Sentry is a Superman ripoff usually never have a good reason how he is a ripoff, never read a comic where the character appeared in or just plain dislike the character.

And if we wanna play the ripoff game and since the OP mentioned Hulk. Hulk is a clear ripoff of Solomon Grundy. Yet the Hulk as a character expanded so much. So this ripoff game is nonsense at best and so is this thread. Like I said flying powerhouses like Superman are not exclusive to Superman or DC.

#70 Edited by Icametoaskquestions (254 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes

#71 Edited by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first: as I said, i read Sentry, more than one of the story arcs where he was a protagonist. I assumed he was a tribute/wink at Superman because of the big glaring S, the sun connection, the simple costume with a cape and a couple of other factors. After all, Superman is much more famous than miracle man.

I stated an opinion based on a wrong notion, but you went off and really went offensive (with LOUD capitalization that makes you sound so important) and aggressive.

I am glad you found your little crusade in life: to attack people who don't know what character was the inspiration for another one. You were the rude part in this conversation and I didn't hear an apology. So bye.

#72 Edited by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

jeesh, you can correct people without being a d**k about it, seriously, where did that tone come from? I actually read a lot of stuff with Sentry, I justt didn't consider that he was inspired by Miracle Man instead of Superman. It's just that Superman is so much more popular.

Sorry if I offended somebody, even though I can't see why.

I'll go join a discussion where people don't attack me when I'm wrong.

No I was attacking you or trying to be a dick but correcting your ignorance of the character. Why? Because people continue to make that mistake even when its been proven that Sentry has nothing in common with Superman besides donning a old school superhero type costume with a cape if you get what I mean. No you didn't offend anyone, but you(not mostly you but more of the OP) annoyed everyone by stating the Sentry is a Superman ripoff by not really explaining why without even reading the comic the character is in, but only based off their dislike of the character. Which is very annoying. Most people who say that the Sentry is a Superman ripoff usually never have a good reason how he is a ripoff , never read a comic where the character appeared in or just plain dislike the character. And if we wanna play the ripoff game and since the OP mentioned Hulk. Hulk is a clear ripoff of Solomon Grundy. Yet the Hulk as a character expanded so much. So this ripoff game is nonsense at best and so is this thread. Like I said flying powerhouses like Superman are not exclusive to Superman or DC.

Sentry has plenty with common with Superman, as he was intended to by his writer - because Sentry is not merely a deconstruction of Marvelman, Sentry was intended to be a deconstruction of the classic superhero Superman archetype, Marvelman and Captain Marvel included and not just those heroes, but many themes of the golden and silver age of comics. You know the guy that you linked to explaining things about the character? When they first arrived at CV they had to be told such things about the Sentry character from other posters. People who have actually read Marvel Man/Miracle Man, and Captain Marvel, and Superman, and at first they raged at them because they used to think that people were criticizing a character they loved (and some were, but many weren't) then they eventually came around and started saying many of the same things whilst attempting to pass themselves off as an expert. Which hey passion for a character is awesome so thats alright. Its just a bit ironic that a lot of the stuff they learned was gained from others they attempted to pass off as their own because of their love for the character.

I think a problem here (just in general) is that people seem so defensive about characters they over exaggerate how different characters are to each other as if thats an automatically bad thing. As many have pointed out, Superman was based on a few different characters too, and I don't see anywhere in matteopg's post where they negatively referred to Sentry as being a rip off even though the poster they quoted is throwing around the term knock off. Maybe based on their criteria the character and many other characters are knock offs, because in a technical sense they could be accurate in spite of the negative connotations of the wording, but as long as they are consistent about their labeling they wouldn't actually be ignorant of anything.

Really if anything Sentry completes a cube of four squares of which on the other three coexist Superman first, Captain Marvel second, Marvelman third and Sentry last. Superman the archetype, Captain Marvel the allusion, Marvelman the allusion played straight then twisted into a deconstruction and then Sentry finally the deconstruction. You really can't borrow, allude to anything from either of the other three characters without borrowing from all three. Even then naturally Sentry has some big differences, he is after all a deconstruction, even the Red Hulk has some very big differences from Hulk. Really different attitude and personality, gets hotter not stronger, has military training, has a more integrated personality etc

Your totally valid and being really informative bringing up the Marvel Man link with Sentry, especially because Jenkins is British and so more aware of Miracle Man/Marvel Man than most and Sentry is a deconstruction, just like Marvel Man was but its a bit much throwing around the term ignorant at posters and telling them they need to read comics. Just really not necessary is it? AIn't going to change peoples minds about a character by implying they are lacking in some manner or telling them they don't know what they are saying. Now I think your a cool dude who knows a lot about Sentry, so you could definitely change a lot of the negativity/misconceptions surrounding the character with some serious knowledge dropping and enthusiasm but possibly would go smoother if you were a bit kinder with your wording when it comes to other posters? You can definitely inform people about a character without telling them they need to read more or don't know what they are talking about heh heh ^_^.

@matteopg said:

I stated an opinion based on a wrong notion, but you went off and really went offensive (with LOUD capitalization that makes you sound so important) and aggressive.

I am glad you found your little crusade in life: to attack people who don't know what character was the inspiration for another one. You were the rude part in this conversation and I didn't hear an apology. So bye.

Your not entirely inaccurate with your notion/opinion, the writer does intend to invoke Superman with the Sentry as far as character goes and many themes running in his stories. There are even some panels in some of the stories where Sentry is drawn explicitly to parallel Superman in ways that Marvel Man or Captain Marvel can't. That being said where Gladiator is a clear homage to Superman and even a nod/in joke to Philip Wylie Gladiator believed to have been a character Superman was partially based off/inspired by. Where Hyperion and Virtue are even bigger direct homages as far as paralleling more of Superman's team and life details - Sentry is a deconstruction, and the sort of deconstruction that is reaching from broader sources and not even limited to characters but tropes and writing techniques of entire comic ages. That does include Superman though too. Just also includes additional sources as well.

Off topic side note I don't think the other poster intends to come off the way you find them as far as their tone, I think they are just annoyed by posters being overly critical of the character that they view as having a lot of depth and originality. ^_^.

Moderator
#73 Posted by TazzMission (5488 posts) - - Show Bio

itll never happen. it would be like saying hey lets ban all bruce lee rip off charachters as well

#74 Edited by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: yeah, I get that. It's just that I didn't even criticize Sentry, I just may have said that I didn't like him very much. I never get so defensive about a superhero comic book character.

Oh well, no harm no foul.

#75 Posted by fodigg (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see any problem with the old flying brick. It can, however, make ensembles harder to manage if not everyone is as physically powerful.

#76 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

Though I disagree with the OP I can't help but feel many posters missed some of their points. Its not the end of the world that some characters including Superman were inspired by other characters, and some more obviously than others. Which yeah also means that characters inspired by other characters will have differences but those differences doesn't mean they are inherently special or unique and not an homage, deconstruction, allusion or type of imitation of something else. Yeah yeah terms like knock off and rip off cast certain negative aspersions, and even more so if the character is more like Gladiator who is an alien, has a different personality and career and cultural standing within his community than Superman. Who has been written by Chris Claremont , and is also used in a very different way creativity than say… Smash. Who is a purple Hulk put out by Rob Liefeld. Still, negative aspersion cast or not the character relies on and draws on Superman character on purpose and as intended to by the guys who created the character. Nothing exists in a bubble, originality is relative.

That and yeah I can empathize with the idea of some comic writers trying to showboat their supposed creative and comics history muscles with fancy deconstructions and homages and all that and how that could be counter intuitive to freshness, originality and organic story telling.

That also being said? What can I say, I love so many of these characters and many other characters derived by, paying homage to other characters. Ultimately its all fiction, I don't find any character strictly overpowered. Its a perception thing and can fall on the reader and their ability to have a shifting and flexible perception. Gladiator has a son now, which at first I thought was cheesy and random, but I actually really like that idea now. Especially the few scenes where the two have interacted. This is mainstream continuity, and I can't imagine Superman ever having an actual biological son in his mainstream continuity. Father dynamic is one way Gladiator is different to Superman, that and the whole leader of a much bigger empire than either Marvel or DC's Earth. I like the idea of a mentally debilitated "Superman", one who is agoraphobic and unsure despite the fact they can fly throw a moon unharmed. One who will rescue a cat for a child because its the right thing to do but struggle with getting his own mail from the letterbox. Marvels never really been the place I viewed as giving its readers a massive opportunity to enjoy escapism fantasy, more so a place to reflect reality and remind us that we are all heroes no matter what age, color, nationality, gender, orientation or mental hardships we might collectively have. So having a flawed 'Superman' type character is a great move to me. Especially now that Marvel have Marvel Man now since I think that character is the superior deconstruction.

I think I understand the complaints in OP though and empathize with them.

Moderator
#77 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg: Oh yeah I thought you did a great job of empathizing with the OP, bridging some of their arguments - I cover similar ground in my second post above. That retreading of old ground and territory can seem like a writer flexing their muscles a bit which can border on ostentatious. I mean hell when we have a deconstruction on a deconstruction where are almost heading into parody territory.

I actually wondered about doing a deconstruction of Sentry as well as a satire fan fiction. Have a character called Black Hole or something, with the Sucking Power of a Trillion Super Massive Black Holes which would obviously make them much more Super than a guy with the power of a Million Exploding Suns. So my character would Suck Even more powerful than that guy. Then there would be Black Hole Girl and Black Hole Boy and Black Hole Dog and the Fortress of Holiness with the Watch Tower in the Hole and uh… their main bad guy would be the Penetrator because… well uh you know… >_> but yeah. Being aware a character has similarities to other characters isn't necessarily being critical of that character. Writers and artists don't live in a bubble either. There is also a certain awareness, and skill in any creator being aware of the history and structure of what has come before and shaping ideas that conform and deviate to those ideas and in many ways thats how you can actually capture the quality of originality.

I think I recall you having a background in science or at least a proficiency with it? Imagine how worse of science would be if every scientist tried to insist one hundred percent of their work was original and conceived in their brain independent of any external sources heh heh. One of my favorite characters Rogue stole the powers of another character Ms Marvel and had those borrowed powers for decades and those were some of her best decades as a character. It doesn't worry or concern me that much of the root of her success of a character required the existence and creation of another character. Ms Marvel in turn was aided by Captain Marvel as well… which brings us full circle since now we can draw a link from Marvel Captain Marvel to Shazam to Marvel Man to Sentry… I think thats how this game is played eh? ^_^.

Moderator
#78 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: that is an amazing streak of good points if I have ever seen one. Yes, I am a biophysicist and work in basic research, and that is work that has to build on other colleagues' work.

I know this is art, but standing on the shoulders of giants doesn't negate the validity of one's work.

#79 Edited by IrishX (2464 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

I actually wondered about doing a deconstruction of Sentry as well as a satire fan fiction. Have a character called Black Hole or something, with the Sucking Power of a Trillion Super Massive Black Holes which would obviously make them much more Super than a guy with the power of a Million Exploding Suns. So my character would Suck Even more powerful than that guy. Then there would be Black Hole Girl and Black Hole Boy and Black Hole Dog and the Fortress of Holiness with the Watch Tower in the Hole and uh… their main bad guy would be the Penetrator because… well uh you know… >_> but yeah.

Ha ha. If they ever make a movie the theme song can be "Black Hole Sun".

#80 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7955 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree, if you don't like these characters then don't read the books they are in.

#81 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

We can agree to disagree. But I really dont see the similarities between Sentry and Superman besides the costumes they wear.

#82 Edited by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

We can agree to disagree. But I really dont see the similarities between Sentry and Superman besides the costumes they wear.

Sentry wears gold and Superman wears red and blue? 0_0.

Heh heh anyway its cool man, I am not disagreeing or agreeing with you or anyone. To me its a matter of objective knowledge. Anyone can ask Paul Jenkins the guy who created the character about the sources for his deconstruction. Ignorance is the absence of knowledge or information. Knowing that Superman played an important role in Sentry's creation therefore is not ignorance, in fact its the opposite, even if its as or more informative to mention Marvel Man as well.

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#83 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

that is an amazing streak of good points if I have ever seen one. Yes, I am a biophysicist and work in basic research, and that is work that has to build on other colleagues' work. I know this is art, but standing on the shoulders of giants doesn't negate the validity of one's work.

Oh nice, thats what career path I wanted to take as well (ended up in graphic design) and great rephrasing of that classic sentiment.

I kid you not I always imagined the character actually singing that randomly too. It helps that as per the Sentry being written to be a bit disenfranchised that my satirical version would be as well, that Black Hole was going to be a female. Female vocalists covering Soundgarden? Sounds good to me =p

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#84 Edited by ChildoftheAtom (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya:

I completely agree except for gladiator because he's hardly on earth anyway and long standing character unlike the sentry and Hyperion who has the exact same origin as superman( I have no idea why any writer would make Hyperion)

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