Out of continuity Marvel OGN series?

#1 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

The one advantage DC definitely has had over Marvel for as long as I can remember is the fact that they make OGN, most of which either create their own continuities or standalone. Examples include: The Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come, All-Star Superman, All-Star Batman and Robin, Justice (essentially All-Star Superfriends), Superman and Batman Earth-One, and several Elseworlds stories. The initial point of the All-Star books' existence was to have standalone "timeless" stories that would essentially be definitive takes on the characters. One worked in that regard, the other is an embarrassment to the human race. Perhaps Marvel could also benefit from this, namely for franchises that have become unnecessarily continuity heavy.

For instance, the line could have a name like MARVELOUS (cheesy, I know) or something that would denote the seemingly grandiose nature of the titles, making them a must-read for fans. MARVELOUS Spider-Man would be a Kirby/Lee story but for today, but not being too updated so as to become just dated. The writer could be Mark Waid, and the artist could be Mike Allred. MARVELOUS X-Men would be a 90s cartoon team of X-Men, with Ed Brubaker writing and a 90s artist of Marvel's choice drawing. Considering that the 90s cartoon is many people;s one and only gateway into the X-Men universe (outside of the crappy movies), this would be a perfect tone/setting for a "timeless" story.

MARVELOUS Fantastic Four could be a Vertigo-esque hard science romp through the Negative-Zone, whereas MARVELOUS Iron Man would be a cross between the Silver Age Howard Hughes-esque Tony Stark (and less RDJ) and the Fraction run politics. MARVELOUS Avengers would more than likely be a throwback to the 70s era team (which I think were the definitive years).The more popular the books got, the more obscure they could become, such as a blaxploitation MARVELOUS Luke Cage and a kung fu movie based MARVELOUS Iron Fist, which could spinoff into a buddy cop MARVELOUS Heroes for Hire. Don't forget a horror movie MARVELOUS Blade.

This would be a perfect idea for fans of these characters as well as non-fans who were interested in the characters or wanted to see a definitive take on them.

#2 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4435 posts) - - Show Bio

The one advantage DC definitely has had over Marvel for as long as I can remember is the fact that they make OGN, most of which either create their own continuities or standalone. Examples include: The Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come, All-Star Superman,

okay, now this is a perfect example of why I can never stay interested in DC's regular, in continuity books. Why aren't Batman and Superman just always this cool? The in-continuity versions of their characters are almost never as much fun as their else-worlds stories. With maybe the exception of Batman: Year One, pretty much none of either character's most classic stories happened in their regular series. So why would I read their regular series?

There's been a new issue of Superman and Batman out every week for as long as I've been reading comics, they're two of the most recognized and beloved superheroes of all time (and two of my favorites); and yet when they're actually used in good stories, DC has to make them be outside of continuity. Why? I can't think of any good reason for it at all.

Marvel has tried what you're talking about with stuff like X-men Adventures and Spider-man Adventures in the 90's, but those series were just derivative of the cartoons, which were derivative of the actual in-continuity stories, so they weren't really definitive of anything. But then you look at stuff like Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-men, which is a great, definitive version of the characters and themes, and super friendly to new readers, and is actually in continuity, and it just makes it seem like that's a smarter way to go.

DC's continuity has been rewritten and retconed so much that I simply don't care what's in continuity and what's not, especially since most of their most classic stories aren't anyway. Marvel's just kind of like, yeah, everything that's ever happened in the comics actually happened, regardless of how ridiculous or dated it seems in hindsight, and to me that's sort of a lot more interesting.

#3 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Endless Wartime?

#4 Edited by Breadspread (774 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: that is also why I didn't get into xmen comics when I was younger. There was too much back reading to understand any of the current plots, and, as a result, made it feel really inaccessible to a new reader. Especially back in the 90’s, you couldn't go a page without an astrix telling you to see another issue. Although I do think xmen comics keep continuity very well, an advantage to a constantly changing roster.

I think with some characters, especially Batman and Superman, stand alone stories work better. It gives the creative teams more freedom to tell the stories they want to tell.

DC continuity sucks. There's too many versions. Every time they reinvent it, they might fix one thing, but at the cost of messing up a bunch more. I can see how trying to keep continuity could get in the way of telling a decent story.

#5 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4435 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: that is also why I didn't get into xmen comics when I was younger. There was too much back reading to understand any of the current plots, and, as a result, made it feel really inaccessible to a new reader. Especially back in the 90’s, you couldn't go a page without an astrix telling you to see another issue. Although I do think xmen comics keep continuity very well, an advantage to a constantly changing roster.

yeah, that was actually part of what got me so into the X-men was wanting to see how all of that history fit together, but I can remember how daunting that seemed early on. I sort of just assumed I'd never understand it all; flash-foreword twenty years, and it feels like I understand it all too well.. hahaha!

I think with some characters, especially Batman and Superman, stand alone stories work better. It gives the creative teams more freedom to tell the stories they want to tell.

Yeah, the thing I find with most DC characters is that they seem to be in a perpetual state of being reinvented; some things stick to the wall and others get forgotten completely. I just think that Superman and Batman's regular titles would have more impact and lasting quality if they were treated the same way as their miniseries and out of continuity stories. Maybe change up the creative teams more, or just have those types of stories featured in the regular series instead of being separate from them.

DC continuity sucks. There's too many versions. Every time they reinvent it, they might fix one thing, but at the cost of messing up a bunch more. I can see how trying to keep continuity could get in the way of telling a decent story.

it just makes me wonder why they bother establishing any one version of their continuity if that version's not going to include any of the best stories.

#6 Posted by Breadspread (774 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Don't get me wrong, I eventually did get into xmen, not as much as some people, but I did follow it enough to start to enjoy the rich history it has created, and uses well. It was just difficult to find a good jumping off point at first.

#7 Posted by Breadspread (774 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what I like about Batman stand alone story arcs, being able to pick any where along the timeline of the Batman mythology, for example Batman before Robin, or when Dick was still Robin, or even when Dick was Batman and Damian was Robin... I don't see why a writer or artist should not be free to explore any of these moments further. I do agree that DC, for the most part, do a good job of this. I would love to see new story arcs of old marvel teams, like the xmen line up of the late 80’s.

#8 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4435 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Don't get me wrong, I eventually did get into xmen, not as much as some people, but I did follow it enough to start to enjoy the rich history it has created, and uses well. It was just difficult to find a good jumping off point at first.

yeah, back then especially. I think it's become easier since though. I recommend jumping on points for people all the time now, depending on what they already have or haven't read.

This is what I like about Batman stand alone story arcs, being able to pick any where along the timeline of the Batman mythology, for example Batman before Robin, or when Dick was still Robin, or even when Dick was Batman and Damian was Robin... I don't see why a writer or artist should not be free to explore any of these moments further. I do agree that DC, for the most part, do a good job of this. I would love to see new story arcs of old marvel teams, like the xmen line up of the late 80’s.

I've thought about that myself, though I can't help but think it would confuse the story somewhat to say, for example, this story happened after the X-men returned to Earth with Xavier, but before they arrived on Muir Island; there's just so many points in their story where the connections between stories are a little too well accounted for. Before Kitty joined the team, it seemed like arc after arc would happen without them even getting back to the mansion, so I don't know when half of those backup stories from X-men Classic were supposed to have happened. haha..

But, yeah, that is a thing I appreciate about characters like Batman and Superman, I just wish their regular series were more like that.

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