I was scrolling through the Marvel forum titles and saw "Marvel's Trinity" and I thought to myself: Why is Marvel's big three all dudes?

First of all, I might as well put it out there that I am not a woman...

But I started thinking about Marvel's leading women and why none of them are as popular as DC's Wonder Woman. Then it occurred to me all of Marvel's popular female characters are either rip offs of male ones or were introduced as a supporting character!

Think about it...  

That's Marvel's problem! This is Why Marvel Needs a Wonder Woman!

If Batman and Superman didn't exist it would not affect her. Because Diana has her own powers, her own origin and her own villains!

What do you think?

i dont know, marvel doesnt have as many iconic women as DC but the first to my mind would be the invisible woman.

Marvel needs a female character that can stand on her own! Interesting and well written so she becomes popular and worthy of Marvel's top three!

" @Vitality:  But that's not considered Marvel's trinity because Iron Man is a million times more popular! They already made two movies of him and his comics have never had trouble selling. Popularity is what determines who makes the top three... Wonder Woman belongs in DC's top three because she's almost as popular as her two counterparts. AS GREAT A CHARACTER AS MS. MARVEL MIGHT BE SHE'S NO WHERE NEAR AS POPULAR AS CAPT, THOR OR STARK AND I HAPPEN TO THINK IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S A RIP OFF OF MAR VELL!
 
@kitsuneconundrum: Invisible Woman is definitely one of my favorite women on the Marvel side but she could never stand alone... She's part of a team!

Marvel needs a female character that can stand on her own! Interesting and well written so she becomes popular and worthy of Marvel's top three!

"

"Ms. Marvel is DC's Wonder Woman...in my opinion.  My Marvel big three is also...  Thor = Superman Cap = Batman Ms. Marvel = Wonder Woman "

Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them. 
Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men. 

Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk! 

" Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them.  Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men.  Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk!  "

It doesn't really matter if Marvel doesn't have something to have a Wonder Woman sort of character. It's not affecting their fame that much.

" @SC:  SENTRY????     O_o "

Would say your premise for the thread is off, Wonder Woman was created because the menfolk were quickly becomming the dominant force in superhero comics, so she was created as a woman who could play ball with both Captain Marvel and Superman.

As for Marvel, i'd say that is supposed to be equal to Diana, power-wise.

Ms. Marvel i wouldnt say could be Marvels WW, since she seems to be a blank slate that they can write whatever they want onto.

But i cant decide if the wild child She-Hulk or the alcholic Marvel falls deeper?

" Ms. Marvel is Marvel's Wonder Woman...in my opinion.  My Marvel big three is also...  Thor = Superman Cap = Batman Ms. Marvel = Wonder Woman "

But i cant decide if the wild child She-Hulk or the alcholic Marvel falls deeper?"

@Blackreverend:
Unlike WW, most of Marvel's top end women have somekind of issue, She-Hulk for example has been mentioned to be a sort of equal to Diana power-wise, but she's had a long line of bed partners and is a little quick to share that. WW's lovelife however is non-existent.

Ms. Marvel also comes close to a WW, but she has been a the bottom of the bottle.

So if those two are the candidates for Marvel's 'WW' title then you have to choose between a former alcoholic and someone who might be seen slightly negatively because of her many bed companions.

"

@Blackreverend:
Unlike WW, most of Marvel's top end women have somekind of issue, She-Hulk for example has been mentioned to be a sort of equal to Diana power-wise, but she's had a long line of bed partners and is a little quick to share that. WW's lovelife however is non-existent.

Ms. Marvel also comes close to a WW, but she has been a the bottom of the bottle.

 

So if those two are the candidates for Marvel's 'WW' title then you have to choose between a former alcoholic and someone who might be seen slightly negatively because of her many bed companions.

 

 

"

"

@Blackreverend:
Unlike WW, most of Marvel's top end women have somekind of issue, She-Hulk for example has been mentioned to be a sort of equal to Diana power-wise, but she's had a long line of bed partners and is a little quick to share that. WW's lovelife however is non-existent.

Ms. Marvel also comes close to a WW, but she has been a the bottom of the bottle.

 

So if those two are the candidates for Marvel's 'WW' title then you have to choose between a former alcoholic and someone who might be seen slightly negatively because of her many bed companions.

 

 

"

Marvel can't ever have a Wonder Woman.The only reason the actual Wonder Woman even still exists is because she's important to DC story-wise.They won't let her go away.Marvel on the other hand doesn't care.They will put a book out with a female character...if people don't buy it they cancel it and move on.Wonder Woman is the first female superhero.She's not just important to DC she's important to the superhero persona itself and comics.Marvel will never create a female character with that impact...and it's not because they are incapable of creating good female characters..the fact of the matter is people don't read books with female characters that Marvel makes.Ms.Marvel and She-Hulk are probably Marvel's most dominant as far as volumes of comics based on them and they are always on the chopping block for cancellation when they are are coming out regularly.

Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them.  Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men.  Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk! 

Well, they killed Wasp, exiled the Scarlet Witch, killed Jean, reduced Mystique to a seductress, powered down Rogue, nearly killed (or may kill) Mockingbird, all of Spider-Woman's recent history was Queen Veranke in her guise, Storm has been married off and everyone's seemingly forgotten she was once the brazen, brilliant leader of the X-men. And anyone, particularly girls, who fall beneath the A list are ripe for the slaughter.

So any female presence would be nice. I mean, they don't even get to save the world any more but what does Joe Quesada have to say....

"If you're [a] Marvel reader and truly feel we're sexist, then why are you reading our books? Now, perhaps you're not a Marvel reader, then if that's the case, I'm not quite sure what you're criticizing if you don't read our books?"

So, in other words, if you disagree with Marvel as a reader you should just quit altogether.

                    Ms. Marvel is Marvel's Wonder Woman...in my opinion.  My Marvel big three is also...  Thor = Superman Cap = Batman Ms. Marvel = Wonder Woman

                   

               

I agree, those are Marvel's equivalents for DC's big three.

Cap and Thor stack up pretty well (especially Cap) but Ms. Marvel isn't nearly as iconic or original as Wonder Woman. 

Still, Ms. Marvel remains Marvel's attempt to have an iconic, flagship-type female superheroine.    

Storm

Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman style character. Marvel have plenty of great female characters but, unfortunately they aren't really given as much focus as the male characters. The most prominent Marvel female characters, are in my opinion: Invisible Woman, Storm and Emma Frost. All of these characters are as strong and capable as there male counterparts and given just as much exposure. 

@SC said:

Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them. Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men. Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk!

are you saying in a new marvel vs dc crossover you want diana to fight sue,storm rouge,black widow,elektra.ms marvel and she-hulk all at the same time?

@SC said:

Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them. Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men. Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk!

are you saying in a new marvel vs dc crossover you want diana to fight sue,storm rouge,black widow,elektra.ms marvel and she-hulk all at the same time?

@SC said:

@Macest128 said:

@SC said:

Disagree. Marvel can't have a Wonder Woman, nor should they try to, because too many of its female characters actually are competitive with each other, in terms of presence, popularity, and as to how iconic and synonymous they are with the company. The day Marvel has a Wonder Woman, is the day Marvel fails. Having one sole female character people can look up to and appreciate is not a good thing when you can have 3 or 4 of them. Plus Superman was a huge part of Wonder Woman's existence. A lot of male characters are derivative of other male characters, just female characters were unfortunate to have this emphasized with their names. I mean, imagine if Sabretooth was called Blonde Wolverine, would that change the character? Not really, just the perception of the character, then that might change his character over time. People who have the time to look can she She Hulk is awesome, and that Storm is more than the X-Men. Marvel doesn't need a Wonder Woman, and DC shouldn't want one either. Why have a Wonder Woman, when you can have a Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Oracle, Power Girl, Huntress, Big Barda, Scandal Savage, Vixen, etc. Marvel is the same. Why have a Wonder Woman, when they got Sue, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Black Widow, Elektra, Ms Marvel, Sentry and She Hulk!

are you saying in a new marvel vs dc crossover you want diana to fight sue,storm rouge,black widow,elektra.ms marvel and she-hulk all at the same time?

Are you saying that Hulk is as popular as Superman in all ways, that Lobo is as popular as Wolverine? That Lobo should have a movie and a sequel? That Teen Titans will get at least three movies?

what does popularity have to do with this?

what does popularity have to do with this?

I vote for Sentry. :)

@SC said:

@Macest128 said:

what does popularity have to do with this?

Why did you change your post from asking what I mean, to something about popularity? lol Anyway popularity has whatever relevancy you want it to, just like your question to me has whatever relevancy you wish. Like what does your question have to do with this?

Personally if I wrote a Marvel VS DC Crossover where characters were forced to fight I'd probably put Wonder Women vs... Sentry. Or Blue Marvel. I see no reason why in a crossover you have to have women fight women and men fight men. This place I come from? The Moon? We like to believe in this little thing called Equality! Also Freedom. And Space Pants.

*smile*

@lykopis said:

I vote for Sentry. :)

Well Sentry is wonderful granted. *grin*

i never said anything about popularity in my first question when in your answer it's something about popularity

i never said anything about popularity in my first question when in your answer it's something about popularity

@Macest128 said:

 Are you saying that Hulk is as popular as Superman in all ways, that Lobo is as popular as Wolverine? That Lobo should have a movie and a sequel? That Teen Titans will get at least three movies? 

@cattlebattle:  *nods* Me too, I think would be great live action. Just one... oh well, there's always the future. 

This is a good topic and I'm glad it got bumped. It's a question I've asked myself before. Does Marvel have any female character who meets the following requirements?

1. Has (relatively) broad name recognition?
2. Is not a gender-swap for an existing male character?
3. Is known for her solo books and not just as a part of a team?
4. Is not predominantly just a love interest of a male character?
5. Is an actual superhero?

1. Name recognition

Now, the 1st point isn't really as important as one might think, because all Marvel needs to do is pick someone—anyone—and make a movie for her and it'll fulfill point 1. I mean, the only female Marvel character to ever have her own film is Elektra. It was a terrible spin-off of a disappointing film but oddly enough people remember it.

2. Standalone

The following female characters are just gender-swaps of male characters:

• She-Hulk (all of them)
• Ms. Marvel
• Spider Woman (all of them)
• Spider-Girl
• Arana
• X-23
• The new Ghost Rider
• Namora
• Valkyrie

3. Solo power

For point three, it's not necessarily to show that she's sold as a solo comic, but rather that she has the chops to hold up a story on her own. A character who hasn't had a very long solo title but could have would qualify, but it's easier to just look at who's had solo runs. When I think Marvel ladies who have had successful solo titles (or multiple mini-runs), I think:

• She-Hulk
• Elektra
• Ms. Marvel
• Spider-Girl
• Black Widow (had a couple mini-runs)
• Spider-Woman
• X-23
• Black Cat (had a couple mini-runs)
• Kitty Pryde (had a couple mini-runs)
• Mystique
• Storm (had at least one mini-run and is well-known)

That's it. And you'll note that most of those were ruled out by point 2 (italics). I mean, really, is Mystique Marvel's leading lady? I sure hope not. Is Black Widow? Then why is she being treated as just another love interest for Tony Stark in the films? I guess at least she's in the films, but come on now.

4. No second fiddle

This fourth point might seem trivial but it really does block out some of the female characters with the best name recognition at Marvel:

• Mary Jane Watson
• Gwen Stacy

Oh wait I guess just those two. Then again between points 3 & 4 you could easily rule out characters like Wasp. Even Elektra becomes questionable. Could Marvel reboot the Elektra film franchise without first doing a Daredevil? I'm not sure.

5. Super

Basically just not Red Sonja or something, which was a Marvel title for a while.

---

You'll notice a lot of well-known female characters just don't make the cut from this. No Rogue. No Invisible Woman. No Namora. These characters just aren't built for or haven't been used for solo treatment.

Conclusion:

Marvel has no leading lady. That sucks. They need to make a solo female movie pronto. Heck, they need to make more than one. Superheroes are not just for boys and haven't been for a long time. I don't care who they pick, just pick somebody.

Storm for me. She is the most exposed female character and she even doesn't have an ongoing series yet. It's all because of her popularity

@SC said:

@Macest128 said:

i never said anything about popularity in my first question when in your answer it's something about popularity

No... no my answer doesn't have anything to do with it. *eye brow raise*

no i think the marvel vs dc matchups should have been set individualy like gladiator vs superman vs hulk vs loose cannon

but noooooooo marvel and dc forgoted about those characters and decided to make hulk vs superman instead

@SC said:

@Macest128 said:

i never said anything about popularity in my first question when in your answer it's something about popularity

No... no my answer doesn't have anything to do with it. *eye brow raise*

no i think the marvel vs dc matchups should have been set individualy like gladiator vs superman vs hulk vs loose cannon

but noooooooo marvel and dc forgoted about those characters and decided to make hulk vs superman instead

Personally I believe Marvel doesnt have a woman for their big three simple because nobody has a lot of interest in their women characters. Than again, myself and a lot of others don`t even find much interest in Wonder Woman. I always saw DC`S big three as Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern or possibly Flash in place of GL. Most of my friends agree with that as well.

Marvel doesn't have or need a big three, therefore, no female character needs to be worthy of that title. There are plenty of good female characters in Marvel, but only 3 characters have achieved a permanent company endorsement (Spider-Man, Hulk, Wolverine).

What is the Marvel Trinity?

Why not Catwoman? She had her ongoing series too. and she had movies and a video game.

Surely 'Marvels Wonder Woman' is Ms Marvel. To meet the point of the thread, Ms Marvel CAN stand alone as she has, and probably will continue to.

Surely 'Marvels Wonder Woman' is Ms Marvel. To meet the point of the thread, Ms Marvel CAN stand alone as she has, and probably will continue to.

@jhazzroucher said:

Why not Catwoman? She had her ongoing series too. and she had movies and a video game.

This is Marvel, though...

Marvel and DC both need a Witchblade... I mean.. just sayin'  
 
Then Marvel needs a Mr T... seems odd they don't have a Mr T... DC... well, they need a Ryu... who is DC's Ryu? Why don't they have a Ryu...