And it has nothing to do with the cast or the direction they're going in. If the Marvel MCU is going cosmic, there's a few missing components they need that are tied into the FF. I saw a James Gunn interview that confirms the Badoon are owned by Fox and the Skrulls are in the grey area (usable but a little more complicated to do so). From the sounds of it they're tied to the FF license. In addition FF reverting back to Marvel also brings Galactus, Silver Surfer, his other heralds and Annihulus back into the mix. The only other missing cosmic piece would be the Shi'ar, which have never been brought up but are most likely also at Fox through the X-Men license. However, I don't see the X-Men movies going into space anytime soon, so maybe Disney can make a deal for just the Shi'ar. Part of the reason I like the Marvel cosmic stuff is this grand scale of warring empires and monstrous things in the depths of space that terrifies everyone.

oh look this again

Time to drop some truths.

disney wouldn't fix anything

they're not even planning to do more than 2 movies per year

there's no room for more properties

and their last 2 movies have sucked

@fallschirmjager: Oh vey, you really need to improve your reading comprehension. I mean you're making points that are somewhat relevant so you are reading something. Somehow in the transition from the screen to your mind, the interpretation gets horribly screwed up and regurgitated out as nonsense. I want to help you like a teacher to a student. If english is not your first language, then this can be a good learning experience... help me to help you. Help me to help you.

Let's go over some truths of my own...

Of the remaining Marvel properties not under the Marvel-Disney monstrosity that will soon own all of our childhood, FF has the highest chance of going back to Marvel if there is another bomb. X-Men and Spider-Man are not going anywhere because they are bigger and more popular properties, but not FF. While a known property, the first two movies weren't huge moneymakers, and if the third does bomb financially, showing a downward slide from the other two, Fox would likely just give up on the property. It happened with Ghost Rider and Sony.

Now you are indeed correct that if it went back to Marvel, they would most likely not fast track a FF movie. From what I've seen from interviews with Kevin Feige, he has expressed very little interest in getting back their other properties floating out there with the exception of Daredevil. Prior to reverting back, he openly expressed a desire to get Daredevil back and now that it's back, the first one up for a Netflix series will be Daredevil. Feige gets what he wants! Ghost Rider, Blade and Punisher are all just in limbo despite going back to Marvel. Considering it would still be coming off a bomb, no way a movie would come but the characters can still pop off. Hey look Reed Richards is in Avengers! What? Yeah, the FF have been around in the MCU for awhile. When did that happen? Off-screen. That doesn't make an--- Shhhhh... don't think too much about it. Which leads to the actual reason I would like for FF to end up back at Marvel, the cosmic characters popping up.

If Guardians, and that's a big IF, becomes a successful movie, you know they will make a bigger push for the cosmic. The MCU cosmic is missing some major players though. Galactus, Silver Surfer and the other heralds, the Badoon, Annihilus, the Skrulls (usable but still have to deal with legalities), and the Shi'ar (never been confirmed but probably) are all at Fox. With the exception of the Shi'ar which would most likely be tied to X-Men, everything else is tied to FF. I want FF back at Marvel to get these characters back into play for future cosmic Marvel movies. Can you just imagine some variation of the Annihilation or War of Kings storyline playing out?

If you want to know my actual opinion about the current FF reboot, I really don't care. I like FF, but they're not my favorite team or a must-see movie. There's also Fox's tendency of late to make me face palm through their third act when it comes to their X-Men movies. I think the cast is fine, not what I would have thought of, but they're all talented actors that can do right in their roles. It's not like Gal Gadot, who has nothing in her library of work that really suggests talent as an actress. I'm a little cautious when it comes to Josh Trank since he only really has Chronicle under his belt and I like to look for consistency from my directors, but he's earned some good will from me for that movie. FF will show if that was luck or if there's true talent there.

Now I know this is a lot to read, and it can be difficult for you, but I don't believe in starting small. Try your best, and I will do my best to help you in understanding the text you see before you.

Same. I want the FF back so I can have that awesome Hulk vs Thing fight, The Annihilation wave, Reed vs Stark vs Banner in equation battles, Doctor Doom teaming up with Red Skull and so on. As to X-men eh they can rot in FOX for all I care let Mark Millar have his fun with them.

I wish Marvel could get all their licenses back be nice for them to have the freedom to use what they want when they want rather then tip toeing around with their lawyers to make sure they can use their own properties. So in other words yes I also hope that it bombs as do I hope X-Men and Spider-man to bomb. Kind of sad I know because part of me wants these characters to have great movies that I can enjoy but the bigger piece wants everything back to being under one roof.

it doesn't matter how much the FF and X-Men movies "bomb" they still make far too much money for FOX to ever let them go. And FF in particular may have tanked box office, but its dvd sales were spectacular. Fox knows that their movies tend to do better as Home Entertainment sales, rather than huge numbers at the box office.

The only way Disney/Marvel are getting those rights back is by parking a huge truck of money at FOX to buy them back. They will never let them revert. And this FF reboot it probably coming out "just" in time to prevent the rights reverting to Marvel.

Fox has a history of treating their Marvel properties like nothing more than cash cows with no soul, so yeah I'd like to see their superhero movies bomb and they let the licenses revert back to Marvel. At least Marvel Studios shows respect to their characters (and audience).

You're not alone. I, too, want the movie to flop so Marvel can get the rights back. Fox had their chance (twice), and they failed big time. Also, like others have said, the FF rights contain a lot of big cosmic stuff (GALACTUS!) that I really want in the MCU and that could make for some epic films. Heck, I want ALL the rights back at Marvel. I understand why some people want X-Men to stay at Fox because they're in their own universe that way (and I kind of agree), but Fox is incapable of putting them to good use, and Marvel would give people X-MEN movies and not The all-about-Wolverine Show.

Also,

YES.

Why do you guys want the movie to flop...if any of you were actually fans of Fantastic Four you would want the movie to do good instead of it bombing and having to wait years and years for another reboot to come out

this topic is all about jumping on the bandwagon of pro-Marvel Studios films. Virtually every person ignores the irrefutable logic that Fox would never let the licences revert. But it helps angry fanboys to vent like this.

I dunno, Iron Man 3 wasn't a great showing of this.

Should actually just blame Marvel for this, it was their fault of hiring people that ran into the ground in the 1990s. If they had been stable then and Disney had brought them earlier (Like Time Warner in 1970s with DC comics) and their rights to each character's rights should've remained, they wouldn't have this problem. But we still don't know what this FF movie will look like; just wait out.

If it bombs then the whole movie franchise will be seen as toxic and even if Marvel get the rights back it'll be vaporwear for years

true but, theirs always cameo roles.

I hope it bombs as well, The casting is terrible and the rumored story sounds just as bad, Once again it looks like this movie is getting made to milk a cash cow and stroke Millar's ego.

If they really make Doom into a woman then I'll want this movie to bomb.

@devilsgrin81: Hmm interesting point, but the "irrefutable logic" has a few holes that Blade (New Line Cinema), Ghost Rider (Sony), Punisher (Lions Gate) and Daredevil (Fox!) would like to make a statement. But first, the home video sales argument. It's an argument that I honestly wish was true because I've seen people try to make a case for a movie they love getting a sequel based on home video sales. The fact of the matter is that they rarely offset the cost of having a movie in a wide release theatrical run. The budget is a big factor, but doing a theatrical run means putting out more money for the marketing and also losing a cut to the theaters. Breaking even, or slight profitability, is not what studios are looking for.

Studios like making money and they are not going to make a movie, even if it is to just keep a license, if they don't believe it will be profitable. They have to believe that they are going to make sizable chunk of green when it comes to blockbusters. The four licenses I mentioned were at a point that the studios did not believe it would be profitable to hold onto the license so they let them go. In case your memory is short, Daredevil was at Fox and they were attempting to make another movie to retain it, but something went awry. As I mentioned, Daredevil is the only property that Marvel Studios openly stated that they wanted back. I assume a combination of low confidence on Fox's part, combined with Marvel Studios pressure led to it coming back. I should also bring up Namor who is over at Universal. Despite comic fans loving Namor, he's a tough sell and he's kind of jerk. If the rumors are true, Namor is set to revert back very soon, and Universal has so far shown absolutely no desire to do a Namor movie. I think they got a little burned with comic book movies due to Scott Pilgrim, great critical acclaim, but horrendous box office returns.

Now this is where I may get some hate because FF is not as popular with general audiences as people would like to believe. They are a known quantity, but they are no X-Men or Spider-Man. Those two properties are rock solid and it would take a lot for Fox and Sony to allow Marvel to get them back. The mere fact that the X-Men franchise survived X-Men Origins Wolverine says something. FF is not that bulletproof. If the reboot has middling box office returns, its future would be as in doubt as Daredevil was. It doesn't even have to bomb. If it makes less than the last FF movie, Fox would have to put in some serious thought as to whether or not the franchise has a future that they deem worthy of investing in.

@fallschirmjager: iron man 3 and Thor 2 were brilliant, not as good as other marvel films but better then any other film this year... As long as Marvel fight to use the Skrull then it's all good. Fix are combining the FF and seen franchises so expected both to go cosmic in the next ten years.

What's with all the negative marvel comments, surely it's better comics ate getting good films big budgets amazing directors... and not the rubbish they used to.

The MCU is the best comic franchise there is, Sony isn't bad, WB can't seem to get superman right and I can't see that improving by mixing him with others, finally Fox... They are going to start some twisted marvel universe, where family ties are broken, magneto and quicksilver first then the storms, heck I'd not put it past them to make the FF mutants and do away with their origin story all together.

Boycot!!! Only watch it through services like red box and Netflix!!

I am starting to care less and less about Fox. They've proven time and time again that they don't give a crap about staying true to the comics. As far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want with the X-Men. I'll still watch it and enjoy it nonetheless anyways. Same thing can be said for Fantastic Four.

Ok apart from Blade... which iirc were actually really successful movies (except perhaps for Trinity) the others you listed kind of prove my point. Those licences were dead weight... both box office and dvd sales. Why wouldn't any studio want to off-load them given an opportunity? In most cases, the dvd sales are a bonus. Fox, for most of their comic movies, doesn't invest a lot in terms of budget... so to cover expenses they only need a moderate return on the box office - like their profitable returns for the original FF movies... the dvd sales become like icing on the cake. Fox is the only studio aside from Disney that goes so hard with merchandising (sony does for Spidey, sure). There's a crapload of money to be made there.

Making an X-Men or X-Men related movie to retain a licence IS smart business. They will ALWAYS make a profit... if not astronomical, at least decent. That the movies have become shyte is just a shame for US. But for the studio... they will still make a mountain of cash. Same goes for Fantastic Four. Smaller budget will mean a better chance at recouping the costs.

X-Men First Class made less than all the other X-Men movies (saving only the original X-Men), and yet a sequel was greenlighted for that - two in fact (Apocalypse got the greenlight before DoFP was even finished post-production)... Daredevil wasn't a successful film. A reboot wouldn't have been financially viable regardless. He's a virtual unknown compared to X-Men, Spidey, FF and Avengers, and the DC super-stars. We don't need B or C list characters getting crappy movies that make it less likely we'll get decent films for better-known character.

I whole-heartedly agree with you that FF are NOT the known quantity that comic fans would like them to be for the broader public. The main factor here is the lack of a cartoon series for decades (at least a decent one that kids (and not-so-much kids) enjoyed). The X-Men are in a whole other league. They were Marvel's bread and butter brand. The one book and peripherals that kept the company going for like 20 years. there's been several great cartoons for the public to adore, tons of video games (even the non X-Men Marvel games always feature Wolverboring and Storm at the very least, and usually Professor X if no one else), and the movie series has been successful.

I just don't see FF bombing badly enough for Fox to want to off-load. Considering the weak box office results of Rise of the Silver Surfer, why would they make another? Because the revenue stream is coming from somewhere else, and something else. Not just the box office.

@devilsgrin81: I wouldn't focus too much on the secondary revenue streams because then we'll be entering murky waters in terms of licenses, profits percentages and the like. In case you're curious, a single company, Diamond Select Toys, is making toys for all of the comic book movies this year: Captain America: Winter Soldier, Amazing Spider-Man 2, Days of Future Past and Guardians. Did each of the studios individually license to DST? Is the toy license separate from the film license and Marvel licensed it all to DST? The thing we know without a doubt is that Fox and Sony have the live-action film rights. Rights in other areas such as with merchandising enters a fuzzy area.

The primary revenue stream, the box office, is really the one that matters when determining these things. The reason Fox wanted to go forward with the reboot has absolutely nothing to do with home video sales. Of the four licenses, I mentioned that reverted, Daredevil works against you on that front as the home video sales were fairly strong with that one, especially with the re-releases like the Director's Cut that turned a bad movie into a decent one. So why FF? Just look at the box office numbers.

FF stands at a weird place as the strongest performer outside of Spider-Man and X-Men but not a hit. The first FF did $330 mil on a $100 mil budget. FF: RoSS did $289 mil on a $130 mil budget. Profitable, but they chose not to continue the franchise because of the downward trend which combined with the bad critical reception, the expectation was probably that a third film would show a greater decrease. It's not like Transformers, where the worst it gets, the more money it seems to make. Fast forward a couple years for Fox and both Daredevil and FF licenses are coming close to the point of reverting. Fox begins to actively work on a Daredevil reboot, getting some scripts together, as well as announcing they plan to reboot FF as well. That's three franchises they would have to make continuously, a lot of time and money. Daredevil was obvious to let go as the lowest performer. Based on box office alone, FF is currently worth giving another shot. Just looking at the numbers, potential is with FF to become a property that Fox would never want to part with, but it's not there yet.

There are several scenarios that make Fox want to really keep FF. Scenario 1: The jackpot. FF makes big bucks at the box office, far surpassing its budget. Avg. superhero movie hangs around $150 mill, so a return of $400-$500 mil would be amazing for the reboot of a lesser property. It's about what the first Thor made. Scenario 2: Same budget as last movie, $130 mil, and makes the same return but has critical acclaim behind it. Maybe because of the previous movies or the interesting casting, people were wary of the reboot but the fact that people loved it, means more potential for the sequel to make more money. Scenario 3: More modest budget, let's say $80 mil, and it comes close to FF: RoSS or surpasses it, logic would think keeping all things the same an increase in budget would mean an increase in return.

With that being said, there are also scenarios that would put FF in serious doubt where it could become "dead weight" as you put it like the other properties. Scenario 1: It does absolutely horrible and makes below its budget. This situation can be exacerbated if it got a good critical reception. Such a situation tells Fox that a general audience just doesn't care about the FF regardless of quality. Scenario 2: Same as the other Scenario 2, but it has a very negative reception. Because people hated it so much, would the sequel end up making even less? Like with the first FF, a sequel may be worth a shot to see if it can pull a Transformers, but there is doubt. Scenario 3: Similar budget as to the previous films or slightly higher, and it makes less than FF: RoSS, not substantially but let's say a $40 mil drop like between the first two movies. The studio won't take that as a good sign. Would another movie show a similar downward trend? Three movies in a row on a similar budget that have made progressively less than the previous film is never good.

The numbers game is cruel and something you may think is a success may not be in the studio's eyes. A lesser property has less of a margin for error where something like Spider-Man which had a substantial drop from Spider-Man 3 to the Amazing Spider-Man, but still extraordinarily profitable (~$700 mil return). Even Marvel Studios is not infallible in this regard. While they haven't had a bomb and all their movies have been profitable, there's a reason we're not seeing a Hulk sequel and the amount that the first Cap made is in line with the first FF. It's okay showing makes a Cap sequel make sense just as a FF sequel made sense at the time. However, as it stands as okay, not great, if Cap. America: Winter Soldier ends up making less than the first one, not even by much, $40 or $50 mill difference is enough for Marvel to basically say no Cap. America 3. Despite what the internet believes, Cap. America 3 has NOT been officially greenlit yet, only that there are discussions to bring the directors back should a third one happen. It really boils down to the potential of the property and the expectation that the next movie has an upward trend. Box office is really all that matters, secondary revenue streams are nice, but I've never seen any case in which that was enough to justify a wide release theatrical run of a sequel. If you can come up with one, please let me know.

I hope it flops because of the casting, specifically the Johnny Storm casting, it's just stupid.

I wouldnt worry about it too much. I really expect it to be considered a failure when all is said and done. For one thing, the FF just doesnt work too well on screen.

If it bombs Marvel won't get the rights in like 9 years anyway. Daredevil came out in 2003, Marvel got the rights in 2012. Might as well get a good franchise going because it really won't make a difference.

@gor724: its seven years after the release of the last film,

As people have to said it only has to make a profit, so you will have to hope they spend to much on the making of the film (but I doubt it, I don't think Fox are interested in making a good film all the good bits will be in the trailer you watch). I don't think Marvel will get the rights back, if the film is crap then it will just be rebooted in 2021.... All you can hope for is delays, if the film is delayed for any considerable length of time and Disney want to spend the money on lawyers then the rights can be taken and the film cancelled. Legally Evan at this late stage, its happened to computer games a lot, not so common with films but still happens. All on the net if you google it. Off the top of my head the mess with Fallout 3 (Van Burden)

Agreed

@mpto216:

this would take marvel years to do. making a deal about certain characters would take them a while, and they would not be patient enough. look at spider man. unfortunately, Marvel will probably reach a low point in a few years after a lot of sequels of the main heroes are made, and they will start doing movies on characters no one's heard of. look at Big Hero 6.

It would still take years to get the rights back, so the success of the movie doesn't matter.

Let Fox do what they want with the movies and hope they give the rights back after this.

"It's a total reboot, that's for sure," he told the publication. "It's got nothing to do with the other bloody ones. It's not stretchy guy and a guy running around in rock that looks like it's made polystyrene. And its not a comedy." - Matthew Vaughn

It should start shooting this month, I bet the weathers perfect for this, it's only films I want to see that are delayed due to poor weather lol

So its unanimous we all want this film to bomb in order for the rights to return rightfully to Marvel Studios.