Is Marvel alienating most of the Fanbase?

#1 Posted by djluongo (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I could be wrong, feel free to correct me. From what I've read online and seen on video interviews; Jeph Loeb and other Marvel executives say they are mainly focused ONLY on younger kids from like 5-12. I get that they are trying to get younger kids to become future Marvel fans but what about the people who are already fans? What do we get other then some good or decent comics?

It really feels like Marvel thinks most kids or most watchers are idiots so they have to dumb down everything. Apparently when fans at comic con complained about Ultimate Spider-Man, Jeph Loeb just basically responded with "Well we're not gonna change anything so get used to it. And we're going to make sure the other shows are dumbed down, including agents of SMASH with no two part episodes and such". Didn't this guy get fired by a bunch of companies for having such sucky shows? And Marvel makes him the head of TV/animation?

Does this mean we can never really hope for cartoons that can appeal to everyone on a balanced scale or at least until someone walks into Loeb's office and kicks him straight in the balls.

#2 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

The comics industry has watched the current generation of comics readers continue to dwindle down to the sad level it is now. They may well have written off our generation outright and are throwing all their efforts into hooking the next generation through other media.

If this is accurate I would think it a mistake, but outside of the movies, Marvel is not doing very much to commend at this point.

#3 Posted by catfightfan (577 posts) - - Show Bio

I never thought of that, but maybe you are right. Maybe Marvel is more concerned about the younger generation?

#4 Posted by SpideyFan113 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

If they want to focus on yonger generation, they should quit with the dumb kiddy shows. Kids hate being treated like babies, its the divine truth. I loved the stuff I grew up with like Batman the Animated series and such cuz it didn't treat me like I had to have everything handed to me or else I'd go insane and beg for them to slow down. As long as there is no gory violence and sex, its fine. I hate how kids shows don't even have guns anymore cuz they think if a child sees a gun, they'll turn into a serial killer or something. I saw guns all the time in my shows and movies as a kid, and I turned out just fine.

But yeah, I have been feeling Marvel is saying "screw you" to all the original fans.

#5 Posted by MrShway88 (655 posts) - - Show Bio

There is still a change the new avengers show will be good.

#6 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been getting this vibe too that Marvel is starting to put out more cartoons that are aimed at kids and not being treated according to the source material like "X-Men: The Animated Series" did. I really enjoyed "X-Men" because it featured subject matter that was pretty mature, but it was still aimed at kids and I got so much out of that show.  Now with shows like "The Superhero Squad Show," you can't really get too much out of it.

#7 Posted by MrMiracle77 (1659 posts) - - Show Bio

History is full of examples of brilliant shows that took younger audiences seriously, only to be foiled by executive interference and frustration with toy sales.  Sad to say, it's rare for a cartoon to turn a profit entirely on its own.  There has to be a tie-in of some form. 

#8 Posted by HarlequinKiss (441 posts) - - Show Bio

When I was a kid I was always attracted to the darker more adult cartoons, I'm sure I'd find Ultimate Spider-Man just as annoying as a kid as I do now (considering it's similarity to some other shows I didn't like as a kid). I won't lie, I liked the first few episodes but it got really annoying and repetitive after a while and obviously isn't building up into any sort of serious storyline (or any storyline at all for that matter.)

#9 Posted by danhimself (22305 posts) - - Show Bio

it's the same with DC...they don't care about long time readers they only want new readers

#10 Posted by djluongo (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: That may be true but at least it seems with most of their animated movies/tv shows they are treating the younger audience like adults. Maybe not like real mature stuff but stuff then even myself as an adult can really get into

#11 Posted by joshmightbe (24692 posts) - - Show Bio

@djluongo: DC is shutting down their Animated Movie division they'll still have the animated shows tho

#12 Posted by Adriell2124 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

What irks me the most are the shows now. Kids these days are going to swoon over any new show right? Doesn't matter if it's 'Ultimate' or 'Spectacular', kids just want a Spidey show amiright? So why not give the older fans what they want by giving is back Spectacular? It's a win-win! Kids get a Spidey show, and the fans get their definitive Spidey show !

#13 Posted by djluongo (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@Adriell2124: I 100% agree you. I always had thought Marvel was doing that before, like how the adult fanbase had Avengers EMH and the kids got Super hero squad show.

My friend's younger sister who is 7 years old, who loves comic books and spider-man even hates how Marvel is dumbing down everything

#14 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Adriell2124 said:

What irks me the most are the shows now. Kids these days are going to swoon over any new show right? Doesn't matter if it's 'Ultimate' or 'Spectacular', kids just want a Spidey show amiright? So why not give the older fans what they want by giving is back Spectacular? It's a win-win! Kids get a Spidey show, and the fans get their definitive Spidey show !

I agree with this. I don't see why Marvel can't have a show that's aimed at kids while having a show that aimed at adults. I've actually rarely seen Marvel have any animated shows aimed at adults other than the PG-13 animated movies and a CGI Spiderman show that came on MTV at one point.

#15 Posted by PowerHerc (81682 posts) - - Show Bio

They've been alienating me by further limiting their distribution away from conventional bookstores.

#16 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Disney is in charge now. They are no doubt shocked that Marvel isn't making more money off of their books. Sure, good comics are like the worlds best R&D department for making cash on films and other tie-ins/adaptations, but they're probably scrambling to make the base product sell better. They're probably going to be trying all sorts of weird crap to figure that out.

#17 Posted by Retro_Metro (368 posts) - - Show Bio

They also focus on the most well received shows being(Avengers,X-Men,Batman,Superman,Spiderman) I would want variety for other shows in their same multi-verses so it doesn't get repetitive for people of all

ages to enjoy.This is entertainment for everyone. :/

#18 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

Although we all love to thing us older comic fans are the end all and be all, we have to admit that we aren't get any younger and eventually we will die. If they don't try to bring in new younger readers they will eventually go extinct,now with that said. They will also disappear if they cater exclusively to the young, the problem with the comic industry now is exposure. Sure the movies and tv shows help, but what made comics huge in the 90s was the fact you could buy them in just about every super market or convenience store or corner drug store. Now if you don't have a local comic shop and access to a credit card you're shit out of luck. If anything the distribution of comics is what's going to be their down fall.

#19 Posted by Dernman (14774 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.

#20 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.

Sad but true.

#21 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I thank god everyday that we still have green lantern and young justice.

#22 Edited by Dernman (14774 posts) - - Show Bio
@sethysquare: I had an image of you actually thanking god everyday over GL and YJ. I also had an image of gods reaction to you for thanking/praying to  him over something like that. :p
#23 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: LOL, you're such a joker.

#24 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

i completely agree

#25 Posted by Lvenger (18465 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not clear in the title what the OP is talking about but now I know it's Marvel's animated projects, I completely agree. They really don't know what's good for them. Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: EMH were two of Marvel's best efforts and what did Marvel do? They cancelled both of them. Ultimate Spider-Man is a pathetic disgrace, Hulk: Agents of Smash looks far too simplistic, cheesy and childish and this new Avengers cartoon is supposed to be set in the same universe as these two which probably means it will mimic the childishness of these two. I understand Marvel have to pull in a younger demographic but subverting their characters is not the way to do it. Although DC do have the backing of WB who have been in the animation business for quite a while, their approach to cartoons has always been vastly superior to Marvel's. I'm done with Marvel animation anyway. Young Justice is the only cartoon series I'll be watching.

#26 Posted by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@djluongo: DC is shutting down their Animated Movie division they'll still have the animated shows tho

What?? That's horrible news. Their animated movies are what got me into DC as a long time Marvel only reader.

#27 Posted by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

I thank god everyday that we still have green lantern and young justice.

Bravo. Two quality shows I look forward to every week.

#28 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand what people have against what people have against Marvel putting more into their younger audiences. I can only think of one on-going comic book series aimed at younger people. I say they should have a few more.

#29 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: the op is talking about animated series. not comic books. marvel animated series treat their audience as kids who have no idea what they are watching. DC animated series are still bright and colorful but the storyline is very mature and deep. Sure there are some flops at DC and wins at marvel but both figures are negligeble.

#30 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

I got into comics at the age range Marvel is planning to cater more to so it's hard to form an opinion fairly. I do think comics now are more adult oriented and themed compared to the 90's - tackling issues and presenting situations more suited to the later teen to adult segment of its customer base although its debatable.

Kids' shows are pretty snarky though -- innuendo and double entendre is written into every script so I wouldn't necessarily think catering to a younger demographic can be a very bad thing in terms of enjoyment with an older one? Plus, this is a business and the basic rule in maintaining a business is drawing in a consumer base that is younger and therefore compelled to remain consuming for a very long time. Its works somewhat considering there is us - the older group - but we are dwindling in size and continue to do so. They have the numbers, they have a department soley focused on statistics so decisions affecting their animation, comic and merchandise will be based on those numbers. Their meetings aren't about catering to comic connoisseurs - its about quantity. The more purchases, the better. Its Disney.

Plus -- add in that everything will be digital sooner than most of us would like. Tactile individual issues will stop (although I don't think TPB will stop**fingers crossed**) but who knows. Perhaps if more people expressed their opinions to Marvel outside of sites like these, maybe they would be willing to set up pilot projects to test the waters (outside of MAX initiatives).

A younger family member of mine is really getting into comics now and although eleven, I am surprised (read horrified) at just how much the kid understands certain, ahem, things. Better to overestimate your audience in terms of maturity than under because the former is complimentary, the latter insulting. I stick with Marvel because I still enjoy the characters, remain intrigued with story direction and character development and want to support my most favourite hobby in the world. I have my Y-Man, my Boys (for now - sniff) and others to keep my adult sensibilities satiated but as for my Marvel books and cartoons, I'm okay with them catering to the new, and not to the old. Then I can complain about how they ruined my favourite characters on sites like CV.

:)

#31 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.
#32 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I know, some people seemed to be complaining about aiming stuff at kids in general, I might wrong though.

#33 Posted by Chaos Burn (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only been reading Marvel comics for a few years now, but even I feel like everything sucks as they try to catch a new audience

- lots of 'big events'

- poor choices in animation (finishing Avengers EMH, starting Ultimate Spider-man)

#34 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. And no, DC isn't the same.

#35 Edited by PowerHerc (81682 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate to say it but with their:

  • prices rising faster and faster
  • constant death & resurrection cycles
  • disrespect & depowering of key heroes
  • increased unavailabillity at non-specialty shops
  • ridiculously decompressed storylines

& now

  • reboot of their mainstream universe . . .

They are alienating me. They really are.

As mush as I hate this, it's also too bad for them because I'm a long-time fan who makes a good living and spends (soon to be 'used to spend') a lot of my disposable income on their products. They need to remember who has been paying their checks and bills since before the "Hollywood Blockbuster" mentality took over.

#36 Posted by borges (65 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a wealth of extant (older) material to read (which I'd consider the most salient volumes) so, all in all, there's no need to worry.

Also, If keeping a product at an affluent level calls for said product to be woefully dense; well, you can't complain. That being said, fuck Marvel.

#37 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.
Well said.  
 
And DC is trying to appeal to idiots with the reboot.  
 
The Big Two seem intent on killing the medium.
#38 Posted by PowerHerc (81682 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Dernman said:
Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.
Well said. And DC is trying to appeal to idiots with the reboot. The Big Two seem intent on killing the medium.

Agreed.

Verily!

#39 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Dernman said:
Marvel is a movie company now. Comics are their second concern.
Well said. And DC is trying to appeal to idiots with the reboot. The Big Two seem intent on killing the medium.

So far, this is the truest statement and people seem to ignore this a lot.

Moderator
#40 Posted by HammerTron (581 posts) - - Show Bio

One cause that hasn't been mentioned is the PC movement. The PC movement kicked into high gear in the 1990s. That coincides with the gradual decline in readership. The PC movement is killing the industry.

#41 Posted by Twentyfive (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

The answer to your question is simple. No, they aren't.

Because they know that no matter what they put out, we will buy it. That is not alienation at all. That is just the fanbase being stupid.

I said it.

#42 Posted by ThePhoenX (119 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, ah, ah, ah..... Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah..... Sorry... Nervous Breakdown...!!!

♪ I gotta a feelin ♪ ... not a good feeling... Let's hope I'm wrong...

#43 Posted by Galactic_Man (158 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, Marvel are relying on their movie fans more than comic fans - can anyone imagine what it'll be like for DC when they (might) have a successful Justice League film? Next thing you know they'll be following the path of Marvel...

#44 Posted by consolemaster001 (4981 posts) - - Show Bio

About %99 percent of marvel fans are spiderman fans and they shove him aside in almost every major event, even in dark reign. I mean COME ON ! Norman Osborn his arch nemesis, the man who made spiderman (one of the nicest guys of the marvel universe) go into near HOMICIDAL RAGE, he killed the love of his life, his daughter, (of course this one "never happend" thanks f**king one more day) and tricked him into believing that his parents were alive.

Norman overthrew SHEILD and created his own avengers team brainwashed the public into thinking that they're the good guys. And spiderman almost never fought him, of course he kicked him around in new avengers and fought him in darkreign: the list. Now i'm not saying that spidey should have been in every single dark reign issue but i was AT LEAST expecting one final showdown in siege or something like that.

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