Has Marvel Lost it's Touch?

Posted by Roy_G_Bamf (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I started collecting Marvel comics at the ripe ol' age of twelve and quickly became a DIE HARD fan. I wouldn't even look at comics from any other company (especially DC). Now, thirteen years later, I've found myself on the opposite end of the spectrum. 
When I go to my local book store, I look at the independent companies first, the secondary labels (e.g. Vertigo and Wildstorm) and finally, at Marvel. I have fallen in love with so many other good stories--Hellboy, Fables, Y: The Last Man, Promethea, etc--that fall outside of the traditional Marvel umbrage that I can no longer claim my die-hard fandom. Has Marvel lost it's touch or have I simply evolved in my tastes to find stories more suitable for a mature mind?

#1 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

you haven't  evolved out of Marvel, Marvel just lost it's touch with all the crappy writers and tie in stories and crappy editors.. i feel you though.

#2 Posted by cattlebattle (12694 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes!!! agree totally, was a Hardcore X-Men fan for years, now I found myself in love with Independent titles and Teen Titans. 
 
Marvel just regergatates storylines...X-Force fighting AoA...WW Red Hulk...aaaaarrrghh!!
#3 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

i was a die hard fan back in the day in the 80's and 90's read everything from, DD, Spidey, X-men, Wolverine and various other titles i could never get enough of.
than it just started going down hill around 98 or so maybe a little later like 2001 than all the crap just burst through like, Sentry, house of M, one more day... etc etc..
the stories just became stale which is a shame b/c of some of the newer hotter artist are forced to waist their talents on hack writers who have no business writing comics who know next to nothing and are supervised by equally inept editors like Fat Joe Q.

#4 Posted by cattlebattle (12694 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
"i was a die hard fan back in the day in the 80's and 90's read everything from, DD, Spidey, X-men, Wolverine and various other titles i could never get enough of. than it just started going down hill around 98 or so maybe a little later like 2001 than all the crap just burst through like, Sentry, house of M, one more day... etc etc.. the stories just became stale which is a shame b/c of some of the newer hotter artist are forced to waist their talents on hack writers who have no business writing comics who know next to nothing and are supervised by equally inept editors like Fat Joe Q. "

Aah yes...... One More Day= Fail
#5 Posted by JediXMan (30310 posts) - - Show Bio

Few things:
 
1. Yes, Marvel has gotten rather bad.
2. Marvel hasn't been that good for years.
3. You've grown up. Sorry to say, but Marvel is a lot simpler and easier to get into than other companies. No offense intended toward anybody. Just a personal observation that I myself have seen and partially experienced.

Moderator
#6 Posted by Reactor (2516 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel has been on a downhill slide for years, after 2009, even I couldn't stomach their stories anymore. Some comics are good, but by majority, Marvel just irritates me now. I have tried - oh, how I've tried... but I just can't make myself like it anymore.

#7 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
"Few things:  1. Yes, Marvel has gotten rather bad. 2. Marvel hasn't been that good for years. 3. You've grown up. Sorry to say, but Marvel is a lot simpler and easier to get into than other companies. No offense intended toward anybody. Just a personal observation that I myself have seen and partially experienced. "

This.
 
No seriously I was like you in the 90's, now each time I look at a Marvel Comics, I taste the bitter flavor of wasted art and foul plot... 
#8 Posted by Snakeguy (26 posts) - - Show Bio

It hasnt lost its touch. Its just that they messed up some of the characters. For examples:
 
Punisher - a frankenstein monster lol
Deadpool - a joke. I mean seriously they have kid deadpool zombie head deadpool dogpool WTF ? In the first issues he was like spidey, but now......... 
 
The xmen stories are lame for some time now. Guess they are running out of ideas.

#9 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@Snakeguy: To be totally fair, for a Frankenstein monster, Franken-Castle was done rather well in a "zany batsht action story that you KNOW won't last forever", kinda way. Besides, he's back to normal now.
#10 Posted by Roy_G_Bamf (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with most of you that it's been a slow decline since the 90s. Granted, there have been some cool/innovative things, but not enough to redeem the stench of so many bad stories.  
I think where I completely lost respect for Marvel was when I saw two words: Marvel. Apes.

#11 Posted by IrishX (2354 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
"Sorry to say, but Marvel is a lot simpler and easier to get into than other companies. "

 
The rest of your post is opinion so that's that but this statement is just wrong. Simpler and easier?
 
Titles such as Hellblazer, Invincible, and Spawn for instance are pretty straight forward as it's just been one series.  Many of the others are also short series and could easily be caught up on.
 
A company with a long history and crossovers and multiple title changes is a bit more complicated. I guess I just don't see how you could really believe that.
 
Change is natural. People wanting to go outside the box they've built themselves is nothing new. I don't think it's necessarily on Marvel if people want to read something different.
#12 Posted by Loki9876 (3003 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe some are bad but the most are good don't believe me look at the reviews of g-man and other mods they rate almost any marvel comic 3.5/5 at minimum most even 4/5 maybe some titles are bad but every company has these.

#13 Posted by Mumbles (846 posts) - - Show Bio
@Snakeguy: 
 
i agree with you. punisher as Frankenstein was stupid, deadpool is a cool character, but is really silly with the whole corps knock-off's.
#14 Posted by Baddamdog (2223 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still a Marvel guy, but I still love DC, with Marvel you just gotta know where to look and what to avoid 
i.e  
look for...great titles like uncanny x-force  
avoid... any comic that has the comic team of land and fraction

#15 Posted by Loki9876 (3003 posts) - - Show Bio
@Baddamdog: Sorry but fraction's iron man run is very good maybe his other stuff is bad I don't know
#16 Posted by SirSparkington (342 posts) - - Show Bio

Same boat here. Honestly, it's a mixture of both. There are a lot of stale stories being used over and over again, or characters so ridden with back story, it becomes impossible to get into them. Although there have been good titles & creators, Marvel has a lot more mediocre and stall books than good. 
 
You're also a more intelligent reader than you were 12 too. Giant fights don't stay "AWESOME!!!!" forever.

#17 Posted by Baddamdog (2223 posts) - - Show Bio
@Loki9876: so I've heard, that's why I said the team of Fraction and Land. He is awful on Uncanny
#18 Posted by inferiorego (22995 posts) - - Show Bio

Each company has its ups and downs. I'm a much bigger DC fan, but haven't you realized that DC has become the world of Batman and Green Lantern? 
 
Before we throw Marvel under the bus, let's take a look at some of their stuff that is good:
 
Fraction's run on Iron Man
The new Crossgen series at Marvel only have one issue out, but both titles were very good
Greg Pak's run on Incredible Hulk (I wasn't too into Chaos War though)
I'm really enjoying Pak's run on Silver Surfer
Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine is awesome
Jeff Parker on Hulk has revitalized the character
Age of X has been a lot of fun so far
 
Future promising series
Rucka will be writing Punisher 
 
 
The bads, for both Marvel and DC, will outweigh the goods just because they can afford to put out a lot more books... I'll be back tro debate more.

Staff
#19 Posted by SC (12961 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't help but think you have just become more comic savvy and that Marvel like most companies, businesses have become more... well, when times are tough you take less risks with products, your products become more safe and manufactured just to grip on, and encourage more new readers. Still a good story is always going to be a good story, and hardly any readers objectively hold this perspective anyway, because financially we can't buy each book, and we tend to have bias beforehand and we develop bias too. If someone doesn't like mutants, or care for them, easy to miss good stories, under that pretense. With a lot of indie titles, or less mainstream titles, or Vertigo titles, Vertigo which thankfully makes me question whether its less mainstream or just underrated now, it can be much more accessible to readers. Start, middle and a finish, good quality story, you can pick it up in trade pretty effortlessly, no to not many tie ins. You can appreciate it for what it is, and not the hooks or gimmicks. People these days are move diverse with their tastes which means more of these stories can occur as well.  
 
Personally I have never been die hard to one company, it would feel like short changing myself. Financially I tended to stick with mutants in Marvel, otherwise I would have been literally short changing myself lol, but I think one can still find a lot of great stories, and books in Marvel presently. Do you follow characters or books as a Marvel fan? I do usually, but maybe it sounds like you have to give that up, and follow creators instead? All those books you mentioned liking, would invariably end up sucking or being risky ventures, if they will put in an ongoing fictional universe with each other and given to writers whose goal it is to make successfully selling, minimally creative products as opposed to creative and interesting products which hopefully will sell minimally or hopefully more.  
 
So I'm going to believe your tastes have evolved past that of the casual comic reader, example the ones who read Uncanny, because its such a mainstay book of Marvel, and is intended to be the most important and relevant,and maybe because they lack time to see if its the actual best, to that of the fan that actually wants to enjoy what they are reading. Also at the same time, both types of fans are shrinking from all corners of comics. So many successful comic book writers today, are the types that stories reacher a broader base. Not that they aim to put out uncreative bad stories, lets not be too pretentious here, but it does result in an overabundance of a certain type of story. Those stories usually don't make up the bulk of Marvel though, and milage may and will vary. 

Moderator
#20 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2614 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, they all lost thier touch right after they got rid of this... 
 

 
#21 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2614 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, too many foreign creators  working on American comics. 
 
Not that I don't like some.

#22 Posted by Jake Fury (18389 posts) - - Show Bio

I often find that indy comics/secondary books are more fun because they're easier to follow (smaller casts of characters, etc). I still read some Marvel titles but only recently (at the age of 35) have I ventured out to other companies.
#23 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh, I have a love/hate relationship with Marvel nowadays.  
 
All they need to do is get Bendis the hell away from the Avengers and things will get better. Unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon. 

#24 Posted by The Stegman (23919 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest i never really liked Marvel, i mean i don't HATE them but their characters and 90% of their stories just never did it for me, i started reading comics about 3 years ago and knew i had a lot of catching up to do, so i started reading a bunch of must reads from Dc and Marvel.  the x men were always my favorite title i loved the messiah trilogy, the phoenix saga House of M etc but stories of that caliber only came about every once in a while, i NEVER liked any incarnation of the Avengers they just seem like jerks (aside from Wasp) and i found them neither funny enough or interesting enough to read, i never really cared for the Hulk or any of the street fighters like iron fist, moon knight or Daredevil, however i LOVE spider-man he's my favorite comic book character of all time, i could list the reasons why but that would take like two pages lol.  but dc is a horse of a different color, i love how their stories are unique and interesting, their characters have flaws without being an "anti hero" or "psychopath" let's face it, that's what most of the "heroes" in Marvel are. seriously Dc has been steadily making great stories for years, Crisis on infinite earth, infinite crisis, final crisis, Identity crisis, 52, Cry for justice, Blackest Night, Sinestro corps war, and that's just to name a few, don't let me bring up Batman related stuff!! as for marvel the last great thing they made was Second Coming, and that was just "decent". 

Online
#25 Posted by Bobby X (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh, I think it's a bit of both: your taste is evolving and Marvel has been slipping (in my humble opinion). 
 
I'm not reading much Marvel anymore myself either...just Fantastic Four, which is excellent, and once in a while I'll pick up an Avengers title  to see what is going on. As I've gotten older, reading comics has become more about following teams of writers and artists than the actual characters, which is a little sad in a way haha, but it is what it is. You want to see those beloved characters written true to form, don't you? You just have to do a little research and be pickier than you were when you were younger and easier to please. 
 
On a related note, I think Marvel let's Matt Fraction write mediocre-at-very-best Uncanny X-Men comics based solely on the merit of his excellent Invincible Iron Man comic. Poor X-Men...      
#26 Posted by Roy_G_Bamf (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Excellent point SC. I often forget about economic systems and how they impact markets. The idealist in me says that it should only depend on the needs of fans and great works, but alas.
#27 Posted by SoA (4776 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roy_G_Bamf: 
i was/am a big fan of marvel , but like everyone here (kind feels like a support group lol ) i just cant read the titles like
i used to , their stories dont hold me in anymore , ive been reading Dc image and independent titles alot more now
DC roped me in with the whole ring war and blackest night arcs , image was walking dead and invincible , independent stories
like absolution and f.v.z.a. are alot more entertaining . in marvels defense i have read the daken storyline and 5 ronin ,and  x-force   
everything else is kinda bland or just crappy (red hulk true identity )

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