CV's Roundtable User Discussion 034 - AvX & Marvel NOW!

Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

Hello Viners, welcome back to the semi-regular Roundtable User Discussion! A couple of CV users virtually met up to talk comic books and other comic-related topics. That conversation has been posted here for you guys to see, read and enjoy. After the "enjoy" step of this process, be sure to comment below where you can submit your own opinions after reading ours. Even if you disagree with us, we like comments. Also, go back and read our past conversations (Here) and share your thoughts...

Let's get started! I am your friendly nehiborhood Mod called sora_thekey and I shall be the host of this RT. With me are some of the users you all know and love (to hate, in some cases). Please welcome back: Blood1991 (B91), Trodorne (Tro) and EdwardWindsor (Lazy).

(Editor's Note: Originally user SC was going to participate along but because of technical difficulties he wasn't able to participate. Hopefully he'll come back and respond in the comment section later on.)

Lazy: Hi I am Edward Windsor, the prince of power, king of the cops etc. You can call me Lazy.

Tro: I'm Trodorne and I won't try to be funny for this.

B91: Aloha. I'm Blood1991. The ironically named keeper of peace in many forums.

Nice to be able to talk to you all once again... Lets begin this discussion with a question I always begin with: hat comics have you read, what comic book movies or TV series have you watched and what comic merch have you bought recently?

Lazy: At the moment I'm reading: Gambit, Captain Marvel, Uncanny X-Force, Age of Apocalypse, The Dark Knight, All-New X-Men, Ghostbusters, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I was reading Hellraiser which finished last week. In terms of merch the last comic thing I brought was this (Right). It was a present for my birthday I ordered. I have it now and it's awesome. But cant read it till the 6th of December: the Vine's and my own birthday. (Editor's Note: This RT took place back in Nov. 26th.)

I have been fanatically watching Walking Dead every week with my breakfast on Monday mornings; it's one of my fave shows ever. Loves me some zombie slaying with my tea and cereal. As for films, I brought the Avengers Blu-Ray box set awhile back so I have watched them all recently except Captain America since he's my least favorite. Skipped that and watched Prometheus instead.

Tro: Recently, I picked up some comics as well as some back issues for my collection: Aquaman #10, Superman #10, Atomic Robo And The Flying She-devils of the Pacific #1-4, Dark Shadows #10, Flash Gordon Zeitgeist #7, Transformers Robots in Disguise #11, Superboy #14, Green Lantern: New Guardians #14, He-Man And The Masters of The Universe #4, Green Lantern: New Guardians #10, Warlord Of Mars #21, Invincible #97, Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season Nine #15, (Ongoing) Star Trek #15 and Life With Archie: Married Life #24.

Had to go heavy this week 'cause I will be cutting down on buying during the holiday season. I ended up using my discount. Sucks that Edgar Rice Burroughs is suing Dynamite, I love this Warlord of Mars series and Lord of the Jungle is good too. New Guardians' current artist is not really a welcome change to the series same as losing Dan Duncan to the Ninja Turtles ongoing. Buffy has been good but feels like it's not contributing much in terms of the plot, while Spike and Angel and Faith seem to be putting out more in terms of merging the plot line. I had to pick up this issue of Star Trek as well as we get the new adaptation of the Mirror Mirror episode from the original series. YAY!. With Married Life of Archie there are two things I want to mention: 1) I want to see how well Reggie and Betty's reality show does and 2) it's great to see Jughead actually growing up more so than Archie just because he has his first child on the way. but yeah that is all I got to say on what I've been reading.... so far.

B91: The Epic Stuff I'm Buying These Days: Hawkeye, Captain America, X-Men, Wolverine and the X-Men, Aquaman, All-New X-Men, Avengers, Wonder Woman, Ultimate X-Men, Gambit, Justice League, Avengers Academy "moving into Arena", Batman, Blue Devil and Black Lightning, Detective Comics "Just until Ivy's arc is done", X-Treme X-Men and Adventure Time.

I Recently Bought: The Outback era X-Men Minimates (Left).

I'm watching the Walking Dead obsessively, EMH is a favorite, and I am eagerly awaiting the Return of DC Nation.

Phew! You guys have been BUSY! Good to know I'm surrounded by geeks!

Today we are hear to talk about AvX and the massive effect this had. The effect being called Marvel NOW! First we will talk about AvX...

Q1: What is your overall reaction to the full Marvel event?

B91: Does one continuous sigh count as an answer? The characterization especially the "X-Men" was all over the place, and the story failed to give me any incentive as to why many of the participants in this event were really engaged in this conflict.

Lazy: I read a lot of this event and I have to say it seemed more than a little patchy in places. Certain things that seemed a little out of character for the Phoenix Five which was okay but still incredibly frustrating to read.

"[Iron Fist] is the yin to the Phoenix's yang."

Land whales anyone? That scene annoyed me especially, since when was Colossus so stupid? Sure he had part of the phoenix in him but as far as I can remember it has never made anyone dumber. I also felt it was weird having a connection between the source of Iron Fist's power and the Phoenix. Yes it was an interesting addition, but it seems to me all they really did was say it's the yin to the Phoenix's yang and didn't go much further with it. Did I miss something?

Tro: Not really miss anything I thought it was interesting they went the route of the Chinese zodiac in which I might be giving Marvel too much credit for lol. Still the Phoenix even in Chinese zodiac was more of a neutral entity that did represent destruction and rebirth. I can see why Marvel wanted to use more of lesser known characters and make them more significant. Even though Luke Cage and Iron Fist were ALWAYS bad ass.

To be honest, I still don't get that myself. If the Iron Fist is the yin to the Phoenix yang, did Jean Grey have some sort of connection to the Iron Fists too?

Lazy: That's kind of the problem for me. If there is this connection between the two forces why hasn't in been mentioned before. It kind of feels forced and shoehorned into the universe. You would think that the Phoenix Force itself would be aware of its opposite force, and it's not like whomever is wielding the Phoenix has even gone unspoken about its power and how nothing can stand in its way. Far as I can tell they basically just wanted something unearthly to combat the Phoenix Five with and short of Strange magicking something up, using the source of Iron Fists power was the best they could come up with.

The connection between the two and Wanda's frankly crazy level of power increase where two of the things that bugged me most really since even as a reality-warper shes fighting the Phoenix Force (all of it, I assume, at one point) even a small portion of it should beat her its not like Wanda's a universal scale-warper or anything.

Tro: Overall I thought the event was very "Meh" to sub par. If we look at the sales history of the event the first four issues had more prints than anything else of that run. So maybe, just maybe they did not need to convolute the plot and just have a singular focus. All other character stories could be fleshed out more in the individual issues. The problem with it being they were so busy at trying to establish that Cyclops was going to be this new universe's villain that it seemed they tossed out the original story they were going to work with. There was one way they could have pulled off the entire event that would have made the entire build up with X-Sanction and the other stories make more sense rather than just CHEAP gimmicks thrown out by Marvel. So all in all, a lot of this event was poorly executed and not very thought out.

Civil War?

It was originally sold as a Civil War between Avengers and X-Men but it ended up being the Phoenix Five vs the Marvel Universe. What way could they have pulled off the entire event?

Tro: Had they actually focused on the idea of the Avengers being paranoid of what the Phoenix would do. Just prolong the battles and have Hope go on this soul searching mission to try and find ways to understand this Phoenix and train herself to be prepared for it. Which would have brought us to K'un Lun, and Scarlet Witch coming up with a plan to use the Phoenix Force.

In the end they would have gotten to have told their story as well as showcase the individual fights. A lot of the changes they wanted to do were forced based on bad plot holes.

B91: Not quite the way I would go about it, but I agree the randomness of a lot of what happened in AVX was a turn off and has been done so in a lot of Marvel events. By the last issue I didn't feel like this was game changing it was just a rag they used to clean up their mess with. I don't think an event that was necessary to do defy ever character in it.

Q2: Lets get into specifics now. The main book had an approximate of 10 different artists and writers Was the difference in art, writing and even panel distribution a turn off?

Phoenix Cyclops by Olivier Coipel

B91: Yes and No. Yes, because I am not a fan of all ten of these artist and writers and it made the characters behave differently from issue to issue which was confusing at times. Plus some of the artist on AVX should not be making event art. No because I am a fan of some of the writers and artist that were involved. I love Coipel's art so even though it took quite a few issues seeing him on the event was nice.

The Coipel issues were the best issues... Visually.

Tro: Yes, one of the main issues I have with this is that changing artists and ESPECIALLY writers screwing up with the story that you are trying to tell. It's like Marvel said: "Okay just to change things up I want you to write part one of this story, you write part two, but keep it somewhat close to what happened in part one. And part 3... well just make it an epic ending."

I'm not a fan of John Romita Jr's art. So while the first two issues were good for this series the art really threw me off and made it hard to fully enjoy it. I'm not saying his art is bad, just saying that for this type of story his art is not needed for it.

I agree with you there. If it wasn't because the artist duties was going to change I would've dropped the book on issue one. I simply can't take Romita Jr's art!

Q3: I now want specifics. Give one thing that you absolutely hated about AvX and one thing you loved. Why?

"Namor was the one who caused the most damage."

Lazy: The hypercritical stance of the Avengers especially them having Wanda among them when she is responsible for a mutant genocide and then going crazy at Cyclops when Namor was the one who caused the most damage of the Phoenix Five when he attacked Wakanda.

I liked that they depowered the Phoenix Five. Didn't like how it was done but I liked that it happened. Lol.

B91: I hated how the X-Men were vilified in the beginning and then the Avengers at the end. Neither sides' argument was very strong, and both looked like jerks at some point or another.

I am loving the new atmosphere of Marvel Now! and that more characters are shining coming out of this. I would be full of crap if I wasn't happy to see Hawkeye with his own series, Storm being a headlining X-Man again, and She-Hulk being used. Plus a lot of the new series coming out are way better then what Marvel was dishing out.

Are you saying that there was nothing in the actual event that you liked? Just the outcomes?

"I suppose Hawkeye shooting Phoenix Emma was pretty awesome."

B91: Well I suppose Hawkeye shooting Phoenix Emma was pretty awesome.

Tro: Just one?... Hmmm. That is a tough one, there were a lot of plot holes and aspects of this story to really pick just one. From unreasonable character progressions to changing the story not even half-way through, and the useless back material for this supposed big event. So to pick one would be hard as it would open a flood gate of problems with this series.

No good things to say about the event?

Tro: Its not that I don't have good things to say but when Marvel has been putting out event after event after event with tons of tie ins. while yes its about making money in the end. To me its not treating the reader with any respect.

When you say plot holes, do you mean things like the Iron Fist/Phoenix relationship that we mentioned earlier?

Tro: There was the thing with X-Sanction where Cable used items in the future that the Avengers used on Rogue's X-Men who obviously tried to stand against them. Why was none of that stuff used? Where was the event that would have determined if Hope lived or died before the Phoenix showed up? Why is it in Generation Hope that the other kids were told that they were important in the events of the Phoenix Force and they were to help Hope? Why was a crucial piece of K'un Lun history not told to Iron Fist? Why was he not summoned in the first place about this sort of matter and prepared for its arrival? If Scarlet Witch realized that her powers were not strong enough at the time to restore mutants, why did she not seek out Hope to tell her of a plan to borrow her powers and amplify it with the Phoenix Force? Why didn't Cyclops use Scarlet Witch even though he knew she was back and knew the Phoenix was coming? Why does saying "No more Phoenix." have a fine print to bring back mutants? The list goes on with this. Logical plot holes that could have been filled in rather than just trying to make quota and rush an event out.

Lazy: The problem for me is whilst it's interesting that they tried to tie the Phoenix Force to another entity it just doesn't seem to fit for me. I applaud Marvel for trying to bring in Iron Fist to the Pheonix mythos, it just feels like surely they would know of the connection along time ago and that Iron Fist should be aware of it.

B91: Trying to bring the Avengers into a problem that has always been the X-Men's was an issue to begin with. The Phoenix has always been a threat and now the Avengers want to do something about it? The only reason they had to be involved was Iron Man's little past excursion (Left).

Lazy: Exactly. The Phoenix Force can only be hosted by a mutant and previously only the X-Men have dealt with it. Avengers shouldn't really be policing mutants, that's what the X-Men are for. If they generally wanted to minimize mutant threats why weren't they involved with the various Magneto attacks or Sinister and Apocalypse.

That's something that is being dealt in the Uncanny Avengers book.

B91: If they had built up this idea of an Uncanny Avengers beforehand, making the X-Men and Avengers closer, or even farther apart, would have worked better. Even an off-hand comment from Captain America questioning Cyclops's motives as a leader, but all that just randomly showed up. I agree that putting the fate of the planet on the shoulders of a future savior was reckless on the X-Men's part, but no one even tried to talk it through. So much of the event felt forced and unnatural that I think it just lost credibility and made everyone involved look childish or like sheep who can't make up their own minds.

Lazy: Agreed it seemed forced/rushed or totally out of character in places. Cap telling Cyke off when he has never butted in on mutant affairs before seemed like a weird move and that was early on. It just went further from there.

Q3.5: On whose side where you on during AvX? The Avengers or the X-Men's side? Why?

Lazy: I was pro X-Men since as I mentioned before they police their own and Captain America comes across a little weird entering mutant politics this late in the game.

B91: Picking sides was difficult between The Avengers (the people who could care less for mutants unless someone non-mutant was hurt) or the X-Men (who were risking every person on the planet on a hunch). I didn't have a real moral stake in who one I just wanted it to be over. Though by the time The X-Men were Phoenixed I was on the Avengers side.

Tro: X-men all the way. Cyclops only became a favorite character of mine when Joss started writing him back in Astonishing X-Men. I was on the side of the X-Men more so, when Captain America would not trust the judgement of Cyclops or even tried to talk to him about his plans. I know time was of the essence , but still. Captain America did **** for the mutants before his death and after, and he expect 100% loyalty. Sorry Cap, but respect is a two-way street.

Q4: Now let's talk Marvel NOW!. The ending of AvX resonated the end of the story in House of M. "No More Mutants" turned into "No More Phoenix". Do you think this is something that will be carried over to Marvel NOW! Or just as simple "The End" to the story?

"Wanda has never been shown to be able to warp multiple realities at once."

Lazy: Wanda has never been shown to be able to warp multiple realities at once far as I can remember so at the very most she could have nerfed the 616 Phoenix a little but it's a multiversal power source so I can say for certain its not dead its just on the back burner somewhere till its used again. Who knows new Jean (All-New X-Men) may have it come around again.

B91: With teen Jean running around the Phoenix is bound to come up again in little ways, or at least talked about. We also have Wanda working with X-Men and tension is bound to exist. As far as a major plot I think the Phoenix is going to be a dormant plot.

But would you say that the "Mutants are Engendered Species" plot is over for good now?

B91: Well, that is kinda the BIG plot line of Marvel Now!. I don't think them being endangered is far from over. I would hope that Cyclops has a reason for attacking people in the streets for one, and we have only been introduced to 6 "if I counted correctly" new mutants one of which is dead.

"The chick with the wings." (Jia Jing)

Six? Let's see... 1) Guy in jail with Cyclops, 2) Girl with the "stop-watch" powers, 3) Uuuh...

B91: 3) Shark girl, 4) Eyeball boy, 5) Healing guy, and 6) the chick with the wings. ^_^

Tro: Well, I figured any of us readers of House of M back in the old days (not really but early 2000's) knew this was coming as a moment of redemption for Scarlet Witch as well as fulfill the destiny of Hope. In terms, this is no way like Flashpoint where fall out from this event may be brought up later. One thing good that came out of this was the return of the mutant population. Lets be honest. since House of M with the loss of mutant powers you stagnate the existing character by not being able to bring in new ones.

Like Scott's transformation to Magneto with a visor?

Tro: Yes, all of a sudden Cyclops goes from a man whose first priority was making sure the mutants were safe to now trying to start a revolution. If he wanted to punish those who have done wrong to mutants that is fine, do it in secret like X-Force did. Why all of a sudden would he go public? None of these tactics makes any sense. If he is still shaken up about having dealt with the Phoenix Force that is fine. but going on some stupid crusade when mutants are popping up is just ridiculous. They should have had him as the mutant police. This was an illogical decision on Marvel's part that was not thought out.

Q5: Marvel NOW! begun a few weeks ago. When it was first announced what was your initial reaction?

"More [...] none sense like Shattered Heroes"

B91: "Whatever, more BS after event non sense like Shattered Heroes." I am, so far, eating those words and loving it.

Tro: Initial reaction was that I am dropping my Marvel titles.

From what I've seen a lot of this is going in a great direction, at the same time its just Marvel's chance to try to merge more of the movie universe with the comic book universe. Oh and bringing out number ones for the sake of trying to cash in on collectors who somehow think it will be worth something in 20 years... *shakes head "no" while looking at you*

Lazy: "One event ends another begins." That was pretty much it.

The whole "will shake the Marvel universe to its very core" quote that usually comes with each new revel followed quite often by not very much that lives up to it. Kinda expect lack luster events now since they are far to frequent now days to be truly classic and there isn't a long enough period to dwell on them before the next one is in full swing.

Q6: Now that MNOW! has begun, is your opinion on this new "status quo" for Marvel different than your initial reaction?

Lazy: Slightly. I have been reading All-New X-Men which is actually rather good, but with MNOW! starting up we have lost, in my view, Marvel's best ongoing of Uncanny X-Force. I know there is a new roster and new creative team but I just don't care about it. The new team just doesn't have the edge for me and as a result its been cut. Now seems to have put a few titles back on track and made a few new titles sell really well Thor's god butcher arc is great, new Deadpool is pretty good, but whilst they have improved here the loss of the X-Force I truly loved is a big hole in my future reading.

Tro: Yes and no. Yes that there are some interesting titles which are really making me want to check out, and no, because some of the strange "Status Quo" used. Why is Iron Man on so many teams? Why are they cutting back on character titles and focusing more on team titles? Something about this reminds me too much of the 90s.

I think this is the moment when I give a shout out to Corey 'Undeadpool' Schroeder's article: Marvel's Plethora of Team Books VS DC's Individual Books.

Emma in Cyclops' Uncanny X-Men team.

Tro: Then there's the alcoholic, violent, savage Wolverine is a teacher, and Emma Frost somehow broke out of prison and still wants to fight with Cyclops EVEN though she initially wanted to leave Utopia back in schism but only stayed because of cyclops begging her (another moment poorly executed). I know they are desperate to get this whole new Prof. X and Magneto thing going on but in all reality it makes sense, 'cause Wolverine is not that smart to be a villain. Savage and killer yes but not a smart one.

Well, it has been hinted at that there will be a mole in Cyclops' Uncanny X-Men team. At first I thought that it might be Magneto. He did witness the death of his best friend at the hands of his now leader but his "Villains it is." line in AvX: Consequences made me reconsider. Now your comment makes me think that maybe this "inconsistent" character trait on Emma is foreplay that leads to Emma's betrayal.

Tro: Honestly Emma should have left him after Schism it would have made the most sense. I can understand she loves Scott, but at the same time she does what she wants and the fact that since she is not married to him and she loves to teach. She said the happiest time she had was teaching classes back on Genosha and Westchester.

I agree with you. She should've left him to teach at JGSHL. Now she's screwed.

Tro: Magneto has always been public for his dislike for how humans mistreat mutants but back in the time when he first started there was a HUGE prejudice. Now it's done under radar. Eric does not believe in a line between good an evil he only see's himself as a tool to bring about change for mutant kind.

B91: Yes, I was positive that All-New X-Men was going to be terrible, and I was wrong and happy to say so. We also have female heroes are taking a bigger role in Marvel now as well with an all woman team, two team composed of a majority of women, and two female solo titles. However, I still have quite a few titles to judge before I start getting overly excited about Marvel upping their game.

Q7: Is there a specific Marvel NOW! title which you are NOT interested in?

Lazy: Uncanny X-Force. As I said before not interested in team and I think the new creative team has a huge job in their hands to match what's gone before them in terms of quality. Other than that, Captain America. He's not a favorite of mine though so it's not down to the creative team or anything like that.

I'm actually very interested to see an almost all-girls X-Force team.

Lazy: X-Force's roster just doesn't have the same feel for me. Psylocke and Spiral are fine. The rest, not for me.

I was pretty interested in the plot and setting in the new Captain America book but Romita Jr.'s art drove me away. I really dislike his art style... (Left)

Lazy: I just prefer captain Britain to America. He's got more to him and a much wider 'verse to play with. He's criminally underused in my view. The new Cap book's art does look a little funky and I don't like the mullet either.

B91: Out of the truly new (putting new number on a title and changing writers isn't new) I am least interested in the new Thunderbolts team.

Tro: There is a lot of titles I'm not really interested in, but I'll say Secret Avengers. It's just a reformation of the Illuminati.

Q8: What title interests you the most?

Tro: Thunderbolts, Superior Spider-Man, and maybe X-factor. Wolverine and the X-Men should be more interesting now that there will be more mutant students.

Oh, for a second I forgot about Superior Spider-Man. I'm right now reading Amazing Spider-Man #699!! So excited for that series.

Lazy: All-New X-Men mostly because we may finally see some evolution of Bobby Drake. I love Iceman but it's like he's stuck in a rut. Perhaps seeing his past self will spur him on to bigger and better things. Not to mention the whole return of Jean and conflicts between current and past Cyke.

Everybody is very curious as to how the Present Day X-Men will deal meeting their past selves. Am I the only one wondering what Present-Day Cyclops will think when he sees Past Jean Grey?

Lazy: I am guessing Cyke will have some sort of break down or she will be the one to turn on Cykes head and bring him back to the land of the sane. Though I could be totally wrong on this one.

Mohawk Storm in Uncanny X-Force

B91: I disagree with I love the premise of Uncanny X-Force, but Storm and Psylocke are my two favorite X-Women and I do kinda have a soft spot for Puck. Curious if he still has that psycho seeing demons thing going on. I would say I'm most interested in The Defenders/Fearless title. A Lady Liberators title is something I've been wanting for a long time, though I can't say I ever imagined it being a duo of Misty Knight and Valkyrie being the leads.

Mohawk Storm in Astonishing X-Men

Lazy: I have nothing against Pyslocke at all. But wasn't Storm one of the people in opposition to the X-Force team not so long ago? I am pretty sure it was her and Beast that kicked up the most fuss at first, hence her being on team seems like its kinda outta character or at the very least inconsistent with previous showings. The whole point of X-Force was the team to be trained or willing killers when the cause is right, I can't remember Storm being an advocate of killing anyone. Sure people love Storm but I just don't think shes X-Force material.

B91: It is risky and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he will write her true to the character while putting this team in tough moral situations. A character like Storm isn't going to think on the same line as someone like Spiral, and Psylocke being the center of the title is probably going to represent these conflicting beliefs.

Are we certain that MNOW! X-Force Storm is Main Marvel U Storm? I thought the mohawk meant she was the Astonishing X-Men Storm who kissed Cyclops.

Tro: Yeah. Puck joining the team is strange to me 'cause I never thought Puck as a killer type character. Who knows things can change and it's good to add depth to lesser known characters like these.

Lazy: Either way I still don't care for Storm. Most people I know who read X-Force are seriously turned off by the new direction in fact nine out of the ten people I know who have it on their pull list here in UK are stopping at the end of Remender's run. I think that the new arc would have to have an absolutely killer story to draw fans like myself back in since the roster is just full of people I don't care about, short of Betsy.

B91: In every interview Humphries has stated he isn't going to have his X-Force mirror Remender's. With Remender we knew why this team was assembled and what they were willing to do. With Humphries we have a team that is going to be dealing with some presumably grey situations and we have a cast that see the world in completely different ways. I love it.

Q9: Let's compare MNOW! with DC's New 52. The story aspect of each of these "events" is entirely different from one another, but from a marketing standpoint these are just a bunch of new #1s to get new readers to buy the books. New 52 has been working so far and is about to enter its second year. How successful do you think MNOW! will be compared to N52?

DC's New 52

Lazy: I hope it does well. I think the MNOW! issues are having far less confusion with continuity at the moment. They are not being reset and histories not being made unclear like the now infamous seven years of DC's 52 reboot. I think in terms on new readers both work relatively well but NOW! definitely is more friendly to the long term fan since characters haven't disappeared or had drastic history changes so far. I think sales-wise it wont be to different between the two though.

Tro: It is a smart move to relaunch a title just on the sales standpoint by trying to sell number 1s. On the readership standpoint nothing will really change. We will get that initial wave of buyers who want to pick up the first issue and it will die off fast. because we still have the scavenger market out there. "Worry about its value and not about reading." But compared to new 52. Its good to continue on rather than cause confusion like the New 52 did with the whole Batman mythos. 'Cause New 52's failing points was keeping some continuity and restarting everything else. Still, the stories from a lot of the 52 are darker and sometimes not afraid to push the boundaries of their storytelling. While it's good to see Marvel wants to expand more into its galactic characters, but it feels forced as this seems like a push to get people ready for the Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

Q10: When MNOW! was first announced fans automatically compared it to New 52 and believed the worst for the company's future. Now that it has begun, do you think there was reason to worry at all in the first place?

"Marvel is trying to find a happy medium between old fans and 'jump ons'"

Lazy: Not really since they didn't reboot continuity which is a massive plus for the long term fans. They just gave the creative teams a shuffle and set yet another good jumping on point for new fans. If they did a reset like 52 I would of been majorly annoyed.

Believe me, you wouldn't be the only one.

Tro: Not so much worry as it was just seen as a ploy to copy what DC had done in order to try and boost their sales higher. What works well with DC's New 52 is that they started everything (relatively) all over in the same month. So at least with the main titles that are continuing we all know what issue should be out this month.

B91: I think there is still cause to worry. A lot is still in the mist of changing and I think Marvel is trying to find a happy medium between old fans and 'jump ons' after the Avengers movie. We saw this in Avengers #1 when the movie team was assembled in the beginning. Truthfully I think it is still too soon to tell.

Q11: Marvel NOW! Is still in its genesis state. How do you see this initiative in about a year? Will we see the MNOW! banner dropped on the covers?

X-Termination

B91: Probably. Marvel can't go 6 months without a new banner talking about their shattered universe after so and so, did so and so and it took a 10 issue crossover event to do so and so.

Lazy: To be honest in a year it's hard to tell with Marvel. By then we could have had 3-4 events that could have drastic effects on the NOW! reboot. Especially when some of the events teased so far appear to be rather large ones: Ultron War and the X-Termination to name a few. I hope that the concept is still going though otherwise it would of been a giant waste of time doing so. Give it six months or so and the banner will probably drop away since we'll be in full swing and people wont need the reminder of this setting. So titles will just go back tot heir regular tiles and headers etc.

Tro: It's still new. Since we gave the New 52 a few months to establish itself we can do the same for Marvel NOW!. But initially I think many people are dropping some of the Marvel titles to stick with maybe 1, 2, or sometimes 3. I think this is because we are just going to get event books anyways with most of our favorite characters. Plus with other great independent series like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Saga, Grimm Fairy Tales, Atomic Robo, and Buffy The Vampire Slayer series, it will be harder for Marvel to hold the attention of people for long especially since all the books are not all coming out at once.

Q12: AvX certaintly resulted in big changes for Marvel and as fans of these stories we hope the best for MNOW! What do you hope for the future of Marvel books? Any thoughts on the Ultron War that is coming up? The roster changes for a lot of these teams?

Lazy: I just hope that the events that seem to be constantly in motion at Marvel serve a purpose and are good. We have seen a lot of lack luster events of late and could use something truly great rather than a new event every couple months that's nearly always forgotten or never looked highly upon within a year. Ultron War does look promising and has a vast scope I hope the story fits the bill and it doesn't end up being another Siege-type story line that people just want it to end.

Ultron War

I will be watching the reviews for the two new X-Force titles and more than likely getting Cable's roster on my pull list. I am also looking forward to seeing if we get to see a Hope/Cable reunion at some point soon and what it could mean to the Marvel mutant 'verse if Hope hangs around.

Tro: In terms of Marvel I'd say we are more fans of the characters than we are of the stories lol. Ultron War was coming for the longest time ever since they relaunched Avengers after Siege. We had that whole timeline that they made that showed the inevitable Ultron War or Age of Ultron. I would imagine it would have to end the same way it did during that Avengers run. Which means he plays dead for a while. The roster for Thunderbolts is interesting. (Not a fan of the art though.) They are taking a chance by changing some line-ups to maybe change the team dynamics a bit. As far as this genesis goes this is a great time to start showcasing or bringing in new heroes and villains.

B91: Marvel NOW! is already fixing many of my issues with Marvel and many of my favorite characters that were wallpaper or in limbo are starring in titles. A couple of years ago I would have laughed if someone said Hawkeye would have his own solo book, or Medusa and She-Hulk would star in a new team book, and I certainly would have looked at you funny if you told me Psylocke was going to lead a team comprised of Storm, Puck, Spiral, and a Lady Fantomex.

In the future I want to see more villains and less hero on hero, limit events to one, ONE every year, and keep giving female heroes time to shine in solo titles.

*Sigh* Another event. They have so much story potential and character development with this post AvX atmosphere that I hate that they are rushing onto the next big thing.

...and on that note I think we should end this. Phew! That was extensive. We sure had a lot to say about this topic. Well, it was amazing having you guys with me NOW! (Get it?) Now it's time to say good bye, please exit through the double doors on your left and say good bye to our audience.

Lazy: Edward Windsor, Lazystudent, Ryan or whatever signing off... Peace.

Tro: This is Trodorne telling you: "If you want your soap opera fix in comics, go read Dark Shadows or Life with Archie. <Takes bags of cash and leaves.>

B91: Fare thee well Roundtable for Blood needth to sign off.

Well, I'm off too. This is sora_thekey thanking you for bearing through all of our complaints. Be sure to comment below and agree and/or play devil's advocate and tell us why you disagree. Buh-bye!

-- Geo (sora_thekey) 24/7 geek! -- Follow me on Twitter: @Geo_sorathekey

Moderator
#1 Posted by The Poet (8335 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice. It's fun reading this because I don't really read marvel, so its nice to see what is happening and people's oppinions...

cool

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#2 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Poet: Really?! Nothing... No Marvel at all? (Glad you liked these.)

Moderator
#3 Posted by The Poet (8335 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey: Well, my pull list does have one Marvel series: Gambit and I'm enjoying that.

i probably would enjoy Spider-man, but having 2 issues a month is a little too much for me.

I shouldn't say I don't read Marvel, because I am reading the older Fantastic Four, X-men, Spider-man, dare Devil, Wolverine, etc. series, but other than Gambit I don't have a current ongoing Marvel series on my pull list. Can't really explain why but none of the Marvel now has really jumped out at me, but it is interesting to read what others think and maybe i'll snag a graphic novel collection of the stuff people seem to really like...)

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#4 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Poet: READ HAWKEYE! and SPIDER-MEN!

Moderator
#5 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey said:

@The Poet: READ HAWKEYE! and SPIDER-MEN!

At least read Hawkeye.

Anyway I love seeing are discussion after the fact. We really rocked this.

#6 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991 said:

Anyway I love seeing are discussion after the fact. We really rocked this.

We did! We deserve a high-five... On the count of three we shall both high-five our computer screens in order to do an viral high-five. Ready? One, two...

Moderator
#7 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey said:

@Blood1991 said:

Anyway I love seeing are discussion after the fact. We really rocked this.

We did! We deserve a high-five... On the count of three we shall both high-five our computer screens in order to do an viral high-five. Ready? One, two...

3

#8 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14425 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey: great job with the edit . It must of been tough to get a sense of flow from our collection of ramblings.

#9 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdwardWindsor: I managed. Hehe.

I was thinking as I edited this... You loved the Uncanny X-Force title, why aren't you interested in X-Termination then?

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#10 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14425 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey: becasue the team envolved is the new xforce lol. Though imay check it out since iam reading the age of apoclypse line to.

#11 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdwardWindsor: Have you been reading X-Treme X-Men? The story will tie-in to that book too.

@Blood1991: lol!

Oh and before I forget... was originally going to participate in this Rt but technology wasn't on his side so let's hope he can come back later to give us his opinions.

Moderator
#12 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14425 posts) - - Show Bio
@sora_thekey Not been reading x-treme tbh. Is that the one with the young/small nightcrawlers ?.
#13 Posted by LiamB8 (54 posts) - - Show Bio

I read alot of marvel but I enjoy image alot. 

#14 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdwardWindsor: Yup. The Exiles-like team where Dazzler is the leader.

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#15 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14425 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey: i haven't read any of that lol

#16 Posted by kfhrfdu_89_76k (3722 posts) - - Show Bio

Not as fun as many other RTs, `cause I don`t care that much about either of those. I must admit though, that even if Marvel NOW was nothing else but a boring publishing stunt, it has given us Hawkeye-ongoing. I`m totally gonna buy the series in trades some day, even if Marvel pisses me off (which I`ve already stated before). I`m sure that there are other good series (FF by Fraction and Allreds, for example), but that`s the one I`ll want to read the most.

AVX-parts on the other hand...well, it was nice to find out how an event that nobody shoud`ve made, bought or read, was screwed up this time.

Maybe AVX should`ve simply been a comic about Avengers duking it out against X-men, instead of also cramming some stupid plot in there. I`d like to read a comic series like that. I probably have to make one (with other, more talented people).

#17 Posted by sora_thekey (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

@kfhrfdu_89_76k: I haven't picked up FF! Then again I won't because I am reading Hickman's run in trade form and I want to finish them before starting Fraction's.

Moderator
#18 Posted by kfhrfdu_89_76k (3722 posts) - - Show Bio

@sora_thekey:

I haven`t finished Hickmans and cos run either.

#19 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5834 posts) - - Show Bio

Great Roundtable discussion!

#20 Posted by LiamB8 (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome, It's nice to know what people's opinions are on Marvel . :D

#21 Posted by LionelRGuy (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdwardWindsor: I just have to ask... you went on and on about inconsistencies and out-of-character-ness of several folks within the AVX event and many others..... yet you say Remender's "Uncanny X-Force" is your favorite title?!? There isn't a single other book on the shelf that more consistently writes its cast out of character! Heck, there's not a single WRITER who does a worse job of making the characters sound and act like themselves!!! His Deadpool is awful and unfunny, he made Captain Britain into a pompous douche, he made me hate Fantomex even MORE than I ORIGINALLY did (for the record, I will NOT miss them using the word "misdirection" 37 times per issue), he turned Daken - one of the most unpredictable, independent, and pleasantly surprising executions of a seemingly lame concept I've ever read, thanks to the wonderful work of Marjorie Liu and Dan Way - into a daddy's-approval-needing bitch (and this was even after Rob Williams had already single-handedly ruined the character halfway through his first issue by randomly turning a strong, proud character who'd scoff at anyone so weak as to need drugs into a goddamn junkie for no apparent reason)..... hell, he even managed to make a whiny, obnoxious, unlikeable, intolerable ass out of Nightcrawler. He ruined NIGHTCRAWLER, who's tied as my all-time FAVORITE X-Man - 'AOA' Nightcrawler, no less!!! (Btw, was he ever going to explain how half of the AOA characters who've been dead/presumed dead for a while now, such as Blob, Donald Pierce, Iceman, Gambit (who died AGAIN), and 616 Daken (what happened to his burned-out healing factor and lost 3rd claw), were all of a sudden back to life? Or are we just supposed to go "Ahh, they resurrect dead characters all the time in 616, so who's to say something didn't happen off-panel in the AOA world?"?) And this isn't limited to UXF; he ALWAYS has a habit of making characters talk more... "poetically", for lack of the right word... than they ever would, using big, elaborate words that many of these characters would not string together. He did it all the time in Venom, and he's doing it again now in Uncanny Avengers (Did Avalanche develop that vocabulary because of Red Skull's operation on his brain? And I refuse to believe Wolverine wrote Professor X's eulogy himself - not that he's not smart, they're just not the words Logan would use.). Not to mention one of THE worst original characters ever created: The Skinless Man. If Wizard Magazine was still around, they'd appoint him as "Mort Of The Month" immediately. And again, not just UXF; the Franken-Castle debacle, trying to turn the Human Fly into a serious arch-villain contender (Are you kidding me?), and killing(?) long-time fan-favorites like Eddie Brock and Avalanche, to make room for mind-shattering original instant classic creations like the Goat-Faced Girl, Living Wind (Wind that goes "I live to attack"? Really?), that stupid turtle-looking thing, and the Insect (What a gem THAT guy is, huh?).

....... my apologies, I didn't intend to dig in so deep, especially since the original post is about AVX and MNOW!; this honestly was just supposed to be a couple words, in-out-done. XD I just can never understand why anybody has ANYTHING good to say about Rick Remender's work, let alone calling him a genius and his work a masterpiece. "The Dark Angel Saga" was actually kind of decent (again, overlooking the character and alive-or-dead inconsistencies), but really the only awesome things he's ever done were the "The List: Punisher" issue (the brawl and the death of Frank Castle were pretty damn brutal) and bringing AOA Nightcrawler into a 616 team - and he even screwed THAT up (Btw, is it HIS fault or just every other artist's that Nightcrawler's eye tattoo has been wrong from the second he stepped foot into 616? It's not supposed to look like a stupid lightning bolt - Mark Brooks got it right in the first couple issues while they were actually IN the AOA. I can't be the only person to notice this.). ;_;

> Ry-Guy

#22 Edited by EdwardWindsor (14425 posts) - - Show Bio

@LionelRGuy: let me simply say this each and every comic will have some sort of inconsistency its down to different writers its just the way it is. However X force in general has been more than good enough to ignore these faults where as AVX in my personal view was not and its seems that most people agree on this.

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