Does Martian manhunter need a power reductiion?

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#1 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

read through a thread about superman needing one. got curious as to whaat you guys think

#2 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer Martian Manhunter and martians have duplicate boy power so they can only use 1 power at a time similar to Ultra boy. In the early Detective comics, martian manhunter had like 100 powers which got reduced when he joined the justice league. I like Martian Manhunter be able to duplicate any power that he used to have in the early Detective Comics such as clairvoyance, teleportation, etc. So if Martian Manhunter uses his chameleon power, he cannot use other powers. So if Jonn is disguised as John Jones, he has no other powers. If Jonn uses his invisibility, he cannot use his other powers. Also get rid of the stupid fire weakness.

#3 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells:

I like that idea a lot....go get hired by dc and write a martian manhunter ongoing series.....do it...do it now!!!!!

#4 Edited by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and No. Yes in that he has some unnecessary powers that I don't think he needs like Telekinesis and laser beams out of the eyes, but other than things like that, I don't think so.

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24665 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#6 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#7 Edited by Farkam (4807 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer him how he is.

#8 Posted by Saren (25312 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesn't even use the telekinesis even though its supposedly how he flies. Get rid of that and just say he flies. It won't make the slightest difference.

Moderator
#9 Posted by Dernman (14754 posts) - - Show Bio

Need it? Maybe or maybe not but I would like it. I think they should dump the strength, speed, laser beams. Concentrate on the telepathy, shape shifting, flight, and intangibility.

#10 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23272 posts) - - Show Bio

No I do not see the point of doing it.

#11 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32814 posts) - - Show Bio

Id like it if he lost the Superman like powers and kept the shape shifting and TK and TP

#12 Posted by RustyRoy (11075 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

you are making these threads all over the place

#14 Posted by drgnx (3549 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan of this. Just give him powerful enemies! I don't care if he can't be a regular JL because he is too powerful. They could turn him into a mentor where he purposely holds out to let the other heroes claim their destinies. I like him being the powerful Bad@$$ he is.

#15 Posted by spidermanandsuperman (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and No. Yes in that he has some unnecessary powers that I don't think he needs like Telekinesis and laser beams out of the eyes, but other than things like that, I don't think so.

#16 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

He is good as he is.

#17 Posted by Bogey (934 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading Justice League #20, sure why not.

#18 Posted by dondave (34542 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#19 Posted by Binski (645 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say make him less strong and durable and no laser eyes I like the telekenesis and phasing angle though

#20 Posted by JediXMan (29619 posts) - - Show Bio

No. MM deserves to be counted as roughly Superman's equal. He's always deserved it and was often denied it.

#21 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12562 posts) - - Show Bio

no. haters gonna hate. if people cant handle J'onn's Martian swag than they can go read something else.

#22 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1163 posts) - - Show Bio

no. haters gonna hate. if people cant handle J'onn's Martian swag than they can go read something else.

#yolo

#23 Posted by LaserLambert (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Make him this strong, for the laughs.

#24 Posted by TheVoiceOfReason (747 posts) - - Show Bio

no. haters gonna hate. if people cant handle J'onn's Martian swag than they can go read something else.

#25 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: No, you probably want peej to have breast reduction too huh?

#26 Posted by sinestro_GL (3066 posts) - - Show Bio

He's written well enough as it is.

His powers aren't in your face.

#27 Posted by rogue_ninja7 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Make him this strong, for the laughs.

love it. :D

#28 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12562 posts) - - Show Bio

@laserlambert said:

Make him this strong, for the laughs.

love it. :D

wow.......i never realized how badly they screwed poor J'onn over in that show.......

#29 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: It makes sense since he is an alien and he can take all that damage, like how they mutilate robots in samurai Jack

#30 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Who is peej? And I don't want anyone to have a power reduction. I wanted to c eat everyone else thought

#31 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah. Batman has his number.

#33 Posted by Ms. Omega (4404 posts) - - Show Bio

No he needs more powers like umm meat vision.

#34 Edited by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

#35 Posted by Crazy_Wilhelm (64 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12562 posts) - - Show Bio

No he needs more powers like umm meat vision.

everyone needs this.

#37 Posted by PCN24454 (454 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like that they go the DCAU where they didn't make him an expy of Superman, and they got rid of his most ridiculous powers.

They should also, instead of weakening him, give him Zod, Darkseid, and H'El like enemies. Some of the street level villains can and should be able to be handled by normal police. Stronger enemies justify why the world needs superheroes.

#38 Edited by DEADPOOL (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@pcn24454 said:

I'd like that they go the DCAU where they didn't make him an expy of Superman, and they got rid of his most ridiculous powers.

I agree.

In the Justice League series, they did a splendid job focusing on J'onn's talents that set him apart from his teammates, notably the telepathy, shapeshifting, intangibility, and flight, and those abilities are linked together in function so they don't just seem random. It worked out great too, he didn't need a hundred abilities to be a powerful and valuable member of the team. It really doesn't make sense for him to be an even more powerful version of Superman either.

I like him more in the cartoon than the comics. He just seems like some kind of 5 year old's wish fullfillment. I'd like it if they just gave him a certain set of abilities like they did in the animated series.

#39 Edited by TeamUnitedNerds (402 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's insane that he destroyed a character effortlessly that the entire Justice League could barely beat. He needs to be taken down a little

#40 Posted by Royal_Rumble_Man (513 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's insane that he destroyed a character effortlessly that the entire Justice League could barely beat. He needs to be taken down a little

Nope, he's always been that strong

he just needs the push

#41 Posted by DEADPOOL (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@teamunitednerds said:

I think it's insane that he destroyed a character effortlessly that the entire Justice League could barely beat. He needs to be taken down a little

Nope, he's always been that strong

he just needs the push

There's no reason for him to be that strong, or honestly for any character to be as powerful as him... he virtually has ALL powers. Why? He does need to be toned down big time.

#42 Posted by Royal_Rumble_Man (513 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadpool: Nope, he does not have all the powers and I have yet to see matter eating or power absorption in his arsenal

It's just that people focus too damn much on low level heroes that anything above is rendered 'overpowered' and the industry does not push stronger ones.

#43 Edited by DEADPOOL (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_rumble_man said:

@deadpool: Nope, he does not have all the powers and I have yet to see matter eating or power absorption in his arsenal

It's just that people focus too damn much on low level heroes that anything above is rendered 'overpowered' and the industry does not push stronger ones.

You're taking my hyperbole too literally, but it's close to the truth which is the point I'm trying to make.

Let's take a look at all of MM's powers:

01. Super strength

02. Super speed

03. Super senses

04. Invulnerability

05. Flight

06. Regeneration

07. Longevity

08. Shapeshifting

09. Size altering

10. Telekinesis

11. Telepathy

12. Psionic blasts

13. Intangibility

14. Invisibility

15. Eye blasts

16. X-ray vision

17. Super breath

18. Sonic scream

Did I forget any? Not only does he have an absurd amount of unrelated and unnecessary powers, but they are all on the higher end of the spectrum, allowing him to easily go toe-to-toe with characters who are best known specifically for just one or two of those abilities... and likely win. I'm also not comparing him to characters like Spider-Man or Batman, I'm comparing him to characters like Superman... in which case, yes, he IS overpowered.

He could have telepathy, shapeshifting, intangibility, flight, and perhaps a limited form of invisibility, all by using his mind powers. He's a powerful telepath, and has learned to mentally control the molecules in his body to reshape and modify himself; he can even pass his molecules through the spaces of solid mass, and make himself light enough to fly. Invisibility could also be a trick of the mind than the eyes. He could also use his shapeshifting to bolster his strength and endurance, but to a limited extent. With these alone he could still be an incredibly powerful character.

#44 Posted by cameron83 (6673 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and No. Yes in that he has some unnecessary powers that I don't think he needs like Telekinesis and laser beams out of the eyes, but other than things like that, I don't think so.

#45 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadpool: Because there are characters needed to show superman that DC is a big place, him along with Majestic, Atom, Marvel/Shazam, Fate and Yat exist as powerful characters. Because they should be, and it is why replacing him with cybo does not make sense.

Also there are higher threats that call for stronger heroes.

DC does not cap at superman.

#46 Edited by DEADPOOL (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@deadpool: Because there are characters needed to show superman that DC is a big place, him along with Majestic, Atom, Marvel/Shazam, Fate and Yat exist as powerful characters. Because they should be, and it is why replacing him with cybo does not make sense.

Also there are higher threats that call for stronger heroes.

DC does not cap at superman.

They exist as powerful characters, but not necessarily more powerful than Superman. Some of them have reasons for being more powerful than Superman too, like Fate who's a god-like Lord of Order. Even Shazam gets his various powers from actual gods. Martian Manhunter isn't a god and has no real reason to be more powerful than Superman or Shazam.

What does Superman and Manhunter have in common? Both are aliens, nearly extinct species from dead worlds. What else do they have in common? Both have super-human abilities granted to them by the mere fact that they aren't human. That's where the similarities end. Superman only has powers because of how his extraterrestrial body metabolizes the solar wavelengths from our yellow sun, and also has drawbacks such as how red solar energy rapidly replaces the yellow solar energy in his body, or how the radiation from kryptonite is harmfully metabolized by his body, or even his weakness to magic. What are Manhunter's weaknesses? Originally fire, currently none. So he's even more powerful than Superman and has no weaknesses.

The very reason Superman was ever given any weaknesses at all is because writers deemed him to be too powerful, in fact, many powerful characters are given explicit weaknesses because of how powerful they are; so why is it that one of the most powerful characters in comics has no weaknesses? Why is it that Superman's race are circumstantially powerful while Manhunter's race is innately the most powerful species in the known universe... without any weaknesses?

And really, the heroes do all seem to cap at Superman... many of the most powerful characters are basically imitating Superman, including the ones you listed like Shazam and especially Majestic. And why not? Superman is the first and greatest, he is the quintessential superhero, the brazened symbol of truth and justice, the ultimate champion of good who all other characters were modeled after for decades and only exist because Superman existed. A lot of people don't even know anything about most superheroes, but everyone knows who Superman is.

#47 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadpool:

Martian Manhunter isn't a god and has no real reason to be more powerful than Superman or Shazam.

God is not a reason, but a crappy excuse to have a power set. In losh there are plenty of races exhibiting super powers and DCU as a whole is a big place, so why is Kryptonians the only race permitted to have a massive power set?

What are Manhunter's weaknesses? Originally fire, currently none. So he's even more powerful than Superman and has no weaknesses.

The Iron rule in all fiction is that there will always be those stronger and above, also he seems to get the flak for being powerful and looking non-human. Sufficient force applies to everyone.

The very reason Superman was ever given any weaknesses at all is because writers deemed him to be too powerful,

Nope, an excuse for him to present drama in street level situations where a thug gets a cop out by whipping out k-stone from their knickers.

many powerful characters are given explicit weaknesses because of how powerful they are; so why is it that one of the most powerful characters in comics has no weaknesses?

The presence does not have one, look man MM and superman are powerful on the planetary+ range but in the grander scale of things they are insignificant.

Why is it that Superman's race are circumstantially powerful while Manhunter's race is innately the most powerful species in the known universe... without any weaknesses?

No, in dc they have angels (since religious scene is enforced there) and the likes of OANS , Monitors and 5th Dimensional Imps who can casually take dumps on those aformentioned inferior races. Also superman's race did not know the knowledge of their powers until later retcons, and MM's race had problems with white martians.

And really, the heroes do all seem to cap at Superman... many of the most powerful characters are basically imitating Superman, including the ones you listed like Shazam and especially Majestic.

Not Dr Fate, Not Capt Atom, Not Jakeem and Thunderbolt, Not Constantine (can fool God/yahweh/hov). Majestic takes it several notches up with added competence, a direction which superman is supposed to go.

And why not? Superman is the first and greatest, he is the quintessential superhero, the brazened symbol of truth and justice, the ultimate champion of good who all other characters were modeled after for decades and only exist because Superman existed.

  • Phantom and mandrake the magician predate him by years, also the whole flying without wings thing is hardly original as namor is the first superhero with the flying and strength powerset. Years before superman, and hanuman centures before that.
  • Batman fans would slap you on the second notion
  • Superman started as a villain in his first appearance (william dunn), it was until philip wylie's Gladiator that shuster got the idea

A lot of people don't even know anything about most superheroes, but everyone knows who Superman is.

Tell that to an illiterate starving child in a 3rd world country

#48 Edited by DEADPOOL (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@deadpool:

Martian Manhunter isn't a god and has no real reason to be more powerful than Superman or Shazam.

God is not a reason, but a crappy excuse to have a power set. In losh there are plenty of races exhibiting super powers and DCU as a whole is a big place, so why is Kryptonians the only race permitted to have a massive power set?

What are Manhunter's weaknesses? Originally fire, currently none. So he's even more powerful than Superman and has no weaknesses.

The Iron rule in all fiction is that there will always be those stronger and above, also he seems to get the flak for being powerful and looking non-human. Sufficient force applies to everyone.

The very reason Superman was ever given any weaknesses at all is because writers deemed him to be too powerful,

Nope, an excuse for him to present drama in street level situations where a thug gets a cop out by whipping out k-stone from their knickers.

many powerful characters are given explicit weaknesses because of how powerful they are; so why is it that one of the most powerful characters in comics has no weaknesses?

The presence does not have one, look man MM and superman are powerful on the planetary+ range but in the grander scale of things they are insignificant.

Why is it that Superman's race are circumstantially powerful while Manhunter's race is innately the most powerful species in the known universe... without any weaknesses?

No, in dc they have angels (since religious scene is enforced there) and the likes of OANS , Monitors and 5th Dimensional Imps who can casually take dumps on those aformentioned inferior races. Also superman's race did not know the knowledge of their powers until later retcons, and MM's race had problems with white martians.

And really, the heroes do all seem to cap at Superman... many of the most powerful characters are basically imitating Superman, including the ones you listed like Shazam and especially Majestic.

Not Dr Fate, Not Capt Atom, Not Jakeem and Thunderbolt, Not Constantine (can fool God/yahweh/hov). Majestic takes it several notches up with added competence, a direction which superman is supposed to go.

And why not? Superman is the first and greatest, he is the quintessential superhero, the brazened symbol of truth and justice, the ultimate champion of good who all other characters were modeled after for decades and only exist because Superman existed.

  • Phantom and mandrake the magician predate him by years, also the whole flying without wings thing is hardly original as namor is the first superhero with the flying and strength powerset. Years before superman, and hanuman centures before that.
  • Batman fans would slap you on the second notion
  • Superman started as a villain in his first appearance (william dunn), it was until philip wylie's Gladiator that shuster got the idea

A lot of people don't even know anything about most superheroes, but everyone knows who Superman is.

Tell that to an illiterate starving child in a 3rd world country

Isn't being a little green man from Mars a worse reason to be as powerful as a god? And I'm not even trying to justify why Kryptonians, who were nearly extinct by the time their latent powers were realized, are so powerful, but rather questioning why Martians are significantly more powerful. There are also other powerful beings, such as the New Gods, but they just as the Kryptonians are basically crap compared to Martians. Being granted power by a god is just one of tons of different plot points for people to get powers, and not just because they felt like having powers. Part of comics is a need for a willing suspension of belief, but there have to be rules and such or else that willing suspension of belief gets broken.

Usually there will be an enemy that's stronger than the hero(es) so that they are faced with a serious threat, but those enemies are typically too powerful and are often killed off or lost in comicbook limbo after they are defeated as a result of that. Just look at Doomsday.

It was an excuse to make someone that was utterly invincible- vincible, to characters like Lex Luthor or Metallo. Otherwise you need to be Doomsday to pose a threat to him.

The Presence is basically the one true god of the DC universe and is closer to a concept than a character, you're actually using that as an example instead of a mere mortal? Gods have an excuse to be more powerful than Superman, but it's already breaking the willing suspension of believe that someone like Superman can be so absurdly powerful because of genetics and not some divine intervention or bizarre one in a trillion coincidence. How many characters are as powerful, or more powerful, than Manhunter that aren't blessed by godly essences?

Are angels as powerful as Manhunter? Oans are the oldest and most scientifically advanced race in the universe, they don't have powers. Monitors are cosmic gods. 5th dimensional imps are from the 5th dimension and do not relate to our dimension. Green Martians had problems with White Martians... who are as powerful as Green Martians? That's not saying much.

Dr. Fate only has part of Nabu's power, Nabu himself is basically a god. Thunderbolt is a magical genie, it's not a mortal. How is Captain Atom or Constantine more powerful than Superman?

Phantom and Mandrake were not superheroes, they were just costumed vigilantes. Namor appeared in 1939, Superman appeared in 1938.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but William Dunn isn't Clark Kent anyway.

I'm not talking to a starving child in a 3rd world country who doesn't even have an education and is more worried about other things than the media, like surviving.

#49 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadpool:

  • Nope, when people say 'little green men' they have to explain the backdrop and biology along with culture. When they say 'god' it becomes 'no questions asked' and ends there. Also willing suspension of belief is flexible when you have metahumans who can bend reality at will and beings from fairy tales existing in the same universe.
  • Doomday got nerfed down because he is an 'event' villain, take a look at poor anti-monitor who used to beat the crap out of spectre. Now writers use him to convey stronger cosmic terrors while they forgot its feats and credibility. But some characters stay to be powerful, take black adam for example.
  • Yeah, but when a character is made that way the setting should be larger than earth, or a singular town. LOSH and GL corps makes it realistic that they operate in space.
  • Mortal? you have the bat-factor for that. A man who can beat beings that are not 'supposed' to be beat within the stretches of willing suspension. Plenty of characters don't need a 'hail mary' from a god, because they stand alone with their own power. Great heroes do not ask permission from a lame God.
  • Zauriel is a low level wimp but on the upper scale you have Lucifer (fallen angel) and michael demiurgos (his bro) , Oans blasted SBP which amped him up so that he can take out monarch, Monitors prove a point, they are in another dimension but they are still within the DCU verse. There is always bigger fish.
  • Thunderbolt is a 5th dimensional imp, not a byproduct of magic. Monarch defeated several versions of alternate earth superman, it takes OAN amped SBP to take him out. Constantine can trick God to do what he wants.
  • Mandrake is a pulp action superhero, and so is Phantom unless you want to discredit non-powered heroes. Superman did not start flying until the radio/fleischer television shows.
  • Dunn is made by siegel and shuster, also superman is stolen from Gladiator (phillip wylie)
  • There will always be stronger heroes

#50 Edited by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah

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